[PEN-L] A New Economy?

NY Times Magazine, January 27, 2008 The Way We Live Now Old-School Economics By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL Why do presidential candidates touting their concern for the economy pose with factory workers rather than with ballet troupes? After all, the U.S. now has more choreographers (16,340) than

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

Comrade Max, that's not a healthy state of mind, when we're talking about something as basic as the privatization of the air! On Sat, Jan 26, 2008 at 09:35:32PM -0500, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I can't speak on offsets. Don't know anything about them. So join me for a seminar at

Re: [PEN-L] stimulus plan

Details of Tax Cuts in Economic Stimulus Plan President Bush and House leaders agreed yesterday on $146.3 billion in tax cuts intended to stimulate the economy. More than $100 billion is in the form of tax rebate checks of up to $600 for individuals or $1,200 for couples, and the remainder of the

[PEN-L] Hugo Chavez swaps one simple metabolic stimulant for another, and the western media is aghast (Aghast I Say!)

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez switched from coffee to another stimulant during a speech on Saturday -- he popped a coca leaf into his mouth and chewed it while defending the use of the plant. Bolivian President Evo Morales, an advocate of the Andean nation's indigenous coca

Re: [PEN-L] George Habash, marxist, Dies at 82

according to the newspaper, he's famous for arranging airplane hijacking. Any comments? On Jan 26, 2008 10:48 PM, soula avramidis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=print/161 The Palestinian newspaper Al-Ayyam interviewed Dr. George Habash, Founder of the Popular Front for

[PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Michael Perelman wrote: Some kinds of regulation do seem workable. Many people are now in favor of the mercury-involved light bulbs, calling for the elimination of incadescent bulbs. mercury-involved light bulbs? Mercury is a deadly metal. Do you mean fluorescent bulbs? I didn't know that.

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

That's logical if you think an ultimate target of zero is reasonable. Another problem, since we're in an international context and countries have vastly different fiscal systems etc., an agreement among nations would seem to entail some kind of equalization in terms of emissions or other

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

Nobody ever accused me of having a healthy state of mind, but I will read the piece. Patrick Bond wrote: Comrade Max, that's not a healthy state of mind, when we're talking about something as basic as the privatization of the air! On Sat, Jan 26, 2008 at 09:35:32PM -0500, Max B. Sawicky

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

I don't know what carbon credits are. Emissions rights are the right to throw off CO2, and if you aren't operating, you don't need any rights. Michael Perelman wrote: You don't get carbon credits for shutting down a plant?

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Jim Devine wrote: how many pen-pals does it take to screw in a light-bulb? Doyle; Classic example of foisting something on the market with little or no discussion of the consequences. LED seem to be less a problem, but I don't see much

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

Max wrote: Emissions rights are the right to throw off CO2, and if you aren't operating, you don't need any rights. I agree, and this gives yet another perverse implication of emissions rights. If you take the rights away if a plant shuts down, then you discourage shutdowns of old plants.

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Doyle: Over time we'll see two other large scale processes, vast solar panel arrays putting a lot of land in permanent shade, The ocean could be covered in translucent mylar mats containing thin film condenser transducers tuned to low frequency waveforms (for efficiency) too... a latter day Wave

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Another problem, since we're in an international context and countries have vastly different fiscal systems etc., an agreement among nations would seem to entail some kind of equalization in terms of emissions or other

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Here is my response to two things Doyle has said in recent emails: If we remove carbon from the atmosphere back to levels that prevailed two hundred years ago then what? We are in effect taking responsibility to stabilize the planet based upon what regime? What regime? Answer: *We* don't

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

http://www.evl.uic.edu/pape/Marx/images/Horsefeathers/BurnCandle.jpg Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how many pen-pals does it take to screw in a light-bulb? (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. - Be a better friend,

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Leigh Meyers wrote: My proffering seems to fall on deaf ears. Doyle; Not exactly deaf ears as inaction. The question is how any of us can work together seems to hover over our discussions sometimes overtly like this moment and often quietly

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 9:56 AM, ehrbar wrote: We need to get out of the climate stabilizing business and allow the earth's automatic mechanisms to work again. That is the reason behind the zero fossil fuel goal, to re-instate the natural carbon cycle which served us so well

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Doyle, global climate used to be a non-issue. Human activity was in the range which the system could compensate for. The only activity which was powerful enough to overwhelm the sytem was our digging fossil fuels out of the ground, thus releasing CO2 into the active carbon cycle which the

[PEN-L] An Introduction to Karl Marx's Capital

(This was posted to the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marxism_class/Introduction to Marxism class mailing list today.) Marx's decision to analyze the inner laws of the capitalist system was not primarily driven by intellectual curiosity. Faced with working class struggles breaking out all

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

On Jan 27, 2008 8:42 AM, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mercury-involved light bulbs? Mercury is a deadly metal. Do you mean fluorescent bulbs? I didn't know that. But the site I cite below says so. Fluorescent bulbs are bad in other ways. Many people are driven to distraction by their

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

ehrbar wrote: Max wrote: Emissions rights are the right to throw off CO2, and if you aren't operating, you don't need any rights. I agree, and this gives yet another perverse implication of emissions rights. If you take the rights away if a plant shuts down, then you discourage shutdowns of

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

On Jan 27, 2008 11:18 AM, ehrbar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doyle, global climate used to be a non-issue. Human activity was in the range which the system could compensate for. The only activity which was powerful enough to overwhelm the sytem was our digging fossil fuels out of the ground,

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

I'm the wrong person to ask about details of international CO2 reduction agreements. Doyle Saylor wrote: Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Another problem, since we're in an international context and countries have vastly different fiscal systems etc.,

[PEN-L] Nader on Billary

Published on Saturday, January 26, 2008 by CommonDreams.org Eight More Years? by Ralph Nader For Bill and Hillary Clinton, the ultimate American dream is eight more years. Yet how do you think they would react to having dozens of partisans at their rallies sporting large signs calling for

[PEN-L] Meat - was Cap trade

This can't go on. Dealing with aspirations in the rich countries, i.e. rich people, must be immediate and effective.Gene CoyleJanuary 27, 2008THE WORLDRethinking the Meat-GuzzlerByMARK BITTMANA SEA change in the consumption of a resource that Americans take for granted may be in store — something

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

me: Fluorescent bulbs are bad in other ways. Many people are driven to distraction by their flickering. Folks with AD/HD or on the autism spectrum, for two. In terms of flickering; higher quality FL don't flicker, though they still appear to cause problems for a minority of people.

[PEN-L] democracy/republic in Iran vs. in the USA

I found a summary on the Wikipedia of how the Islamic Republic of Iran's government is organized. It is similar in many ways to that of the USA. Below, I have emphasized the similarities by replacing Iranian terms with US ones. There are also differences, as noted. The political system of the

Re: [PEN-L] light bulbs -- not a joke.

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Gar Lipow wrote: EDs - cost problem may indeed be solved soon, though it is always a mistake to be too sure of things like that. LEDs also are not quite as efficiency as CFL bulb. Doyle; Fascinating, and what I'm looking for to discover

Re: [PEN-L] Cap and Trade versus Carbon Tax

Greetings Economists, On Jan 27, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I'm the wrong person to ask about details of international CO2 reduction agreements. Doyle; Well that's understandable. I'd like to see what the implications for agreements imply. I could speculate that removing

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

On Jan 27, 2008 6:28 AM, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do presidential candidates touting their concern for the economy pose with factory workers rather than with ballet troupes? After all, the U.S. now has more choreographers (16,340) than metal-casters (14,880), according to the

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack dealers arguably do create use value though of a dubious kind.) -raghu. Didn't you mean to

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

But Louis, isn't that the point. Unproductive labour must be paid out of surplus value. As the ratio of unproductive to productive labour increases, the rate of exploitation of productive labour must increase, no? Paul Phillips Louis Proyect wrote: What is the Marxist take on this new

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

Surely the exploitation has been exported along with productive capital to those geographic areas in which the surplus can be increased. The workers left behind are 'enjoying' a share of that increased surplus value whilst being unproductive of it themselves. Whatever productive capital is left

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

Simon Ward wrote: productive capital is drained away and whatever capital is left is slowly but steadily transferred to unproductive conditions - ever more luxurious housing for example or golf courses. This is wrong; these are luxury commodities and the production of them generates surplus

[PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: “Our economy is in serious trouble,” - Eric Janszen, Harpers

iTulip.com!!! Eric Janszen, The Next Bubble: Priming the Markets for Tomorrow's Big Crash, Harper's, February 2008. Our economy is in serious trouble, writes Eric Janszen in the cover story for the February Harper's. Both the production-consumption sector and the FIRE [finance, insurance and

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

I can accept the wrongness but it has other implications. Firstly, the productive component of labour must include construction workers not just the traditional manufacturing class. Secondly, other luxury goods are not required to be manufactured in the home economy. Thirdly, the capital

[PEN-L] folkloric? [was: A New Economy?

CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL writes: If Republicans have had more luck talking about the economy for the last generation or so, it is because they were the less folkloric of the two parties. Huh? the GOPsters are quite folkloric. They long for the idealized golden Age of the 1950s when America was

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

raghu: What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack dealers arguably do create use value though of a dubious kind.) -raghu. Louis

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

The distinction between productive and unproductive has many meanings -- Even Marx was not entirely consistent. A golf course or a meth lab can be productive in the sense of producing surplus value. On a different level of abstraction, an economy devoted exclusively to catering to the

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

Simon Ward wrote: I can accept the wrongness but it has other implications. Firstly, the productive component of labour must include construction workers not just the traditional manufacturing class. Whose traditional manufacturing class? Productive workers ALWAYS (in Marx's work) included

Re: [PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: “Our economy is in serious trouble,” - Eric Janszen, Harpers

So? Capitalist economies regularly get in serious trouble, and just as regularly get out of it, though a lot of non-capitalists suffer in the process. Carrol

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

[sent earlier by mistake, in incomplete form.] raghu: What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack dealers arguably do create use value

[PEN-L] Re: [PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: “Our economy is in serious trouble,” - Eric Janszen, Harpers

So, you're saying everything is hunky-dory for the capitalist economy? What ARE you saying? Leigh On Jan 27, 2008 5:46 PM, Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So? Capitalist economies regularly get in serious trouble, and just as regularly get out of it, though a lot of non-capitalists

Re: [PEN-L] Re: [PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: “Our economy is in serious trouble

I don't think that Dubai has that much oil. It was historically an entrepot. It is close to Iran. It made big bucks during the last Iraq war. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu

Re: [PEN-L] Re: [PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: “Our economy is in serious trouble,” - Eric Janszen, Harpers

Leigh Meyers wrote: So, you're saying everything is hunky-dory for the capitalist economy? What ARE you saying? If you don't hit it, it won't fall. There is no organized mass movement at present to hit it. CapitalistS are in trouble; even more workers are in trouble. There is nothing to

Re: [PEN-L] Re: [PEN-L] The Bubble Bursts: �Our economy is in serious trouble,� - Eric Janszen, Harpers

Leigh Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, you're saying everything is hunky-dory for the capitalist economy? What ARE you saying? ? - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?

On Jan 27, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Paul Phillips wrote: But Louis, isn't that the point. Unproductive labour must be paid out of surplus value. As the ratio of unproductive to productive labour increases, the rate of exploitation of productive labour must increase, no? Not in the least. Marx

[PEN-L] (Fwd) Marxist poli-econ in SA

(Michael Perelman has a great article in this journal, which we're just now putting up on our website for free download. Comments warmly welcome, comrades.) AFRICANUS Journal of Development Studies Vol 37 No 2 2007 ISSN 0304-615x Transcending two economies – renewed debates in South African

Re: [PEN-L] George Habash, marxist, Dies at 82

unlike today's violent acts, the planes were emptied and then exploded to draw media attention to the palestinian question - Original Message From: Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PEN-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:32:30 PM Subject: Re: George Habash, marxist,