[PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Paul Zarembka
--On 2/12/2008 Carol Cox wrote: The term conspiracy should be reserved (for political clarity) for those activities which cannot work except as complete secrecy is involved. The alleged and non-existent 9/11 conspiracy is of that nature: it would only work if thousands of persons maintained

[PEN-L] At a cost, Iran is evading sanctions

2008-02-13 Thread Marvin Gandall
The biggest unintended consequence of the sanctions, apart from the Chinese moving in to fill the void left by the forced withdrawal of Western oil firms, has been the strengthening of economic ties between Iran and the Gulf States. That's contributed to a warming of political relations and a

Re: [PEN-L] On the third hand [was: Let.s Go Hillary]

2008-02-13 Thread Jim Devine
Carrol Cox wrote: The term conspiracy should be reserved (for political clarity) for those activities which cannot work except as complete secrecy is involved. that's an excellent clarification of the meaning of that word. -- Jim Devine / Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti. (Go your own

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Jim Devine
Carol Cox wrote: The term conspiracy should be reserved (for political clarity) for those activities which cannot work except as complete secrecy is involved. Paul Zarembka wrote: The Manhattan project involved hundreds of thousands and the participants did NOT know what the purpose was.

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Shane Mage
On Feb 13, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I'm as paranoid as anyone, but moreover, the MP had an objective that few patriots could object to, in contrast to some scheme to murder thousands of innocent citizens. I.e., a scheme to murder millions of innocent (foreign) citizens?

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 13, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I'm as paranoid as anyone, but moreover, the MP had an objective that few patriots could object to, in contrast to some scheme to murder thousands of innocent citizens. Doyle; Are we talking about Hiroshima? Doyle

[PEN-L] the people speak: Chavez threat

2008-02-13 Thread Jim Devine
Chavez Threatens To Cut United States Off Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has threatened to stop sending oil to the United States, citing Washington's role in aiding Exxon Mobil with a lawsuit against nationalizing the country's oil. What do you think? Bettie Arnold, Systems Analyst: Bullies

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Jim Devine
in terms of the actual practice of the Manhattan Project's conspiracy, patriotism and anti-Nazism were crucial glues which kept it secret. This created problems, by the way, when the target was switched to being Japan, since the anti-Nazi motivation faded. If we want to understand history, our

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Max B. Sawicky
I'm as paranoid as anyone, but moreover, the MP had an objective that few patriots could object to, in contrast to some scheme to murder thousands of innocent citizens. it seems to me that the MP could have worked even without total secrecy. The Russians knew about it, no? And it didn't

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Michael Perelman
Carroll should not have rekindled this. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu michaelperelman.wordpress.com

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Charles Brown
Carroll should not have rekindled this. ^ CB: It was a conspiracy. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu michaelperelman.wordpress.com

Re: [PEN-L] Conspiracies

2008-02-13 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Well I meant American citizens. At least I hope no such scheme could ever be kept secret. Not that a scheme to murder foreigners is any more ethical, but the narrower view at least reflects a molecule of morality. On Feb 13, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Max B. Sawicky wrote: I'm as paranoid as anyone,

[PEN-L] GM, eager to cut wages, tries buyout of all workers

2008-02-13 Thread Charles Brown
GM, eager to cut wages, tries buyout of all workers Author: John Wojcik People's Weekly World Newspaper, 02/12/08 15:04 General Motors Corp. announced Feb. 12 that it wants to buy out all of its 74,000 U.S. hourly employees who are represented by the United Auto Workers. If the

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Julio Huato
Louis Proyect wrote: I thought it was fairly shrewd of him [David Brooks] to make the case that the next Democratic president will run the country like Bill Clinton, whether it is his wife or that change guy. It's not shrewdness. It's wishful thinking. Of course, in politics, anything can

[PEN-L] Outsourcing Nuclear Warfare - Getting the Military Out of the Nuclear Business - WaPo Early Warning

2008-02-13 Thread Leigh Meyers
The comments are fascinating. Early Warning Getting the Military Out of the Nuclear Business William M. Arkin on National and Homeland Security http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2008/02/getting_the_military_out_of_th.html Embarrassed by last August's megaton-size screw-up, in which

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Doug Henwood
On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Julio Huato wrote: Louis Proyect wrote: I thought it was fairly shrewd of him [David Brooks] to make the case that the next Democratic president will run the country like Bill Clinton, whether it is his wife or that change guy. It's not shrewdness. It's

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Doyle Saylor
Greetings Economists, On Feb 13, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: is the perfect instrument for a homegrown structural adjustment program. Doyle; A structural adjustment is coming whoever wins the presidency. Michael speaks to that; MP writes, Isn't this a common pattern, that the left

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Louis Proyect
Michael Perelman wrote: Isn't this a common pattern, that the left falls (not really wins) into office once the right model becomes exhausted, leaving the purported left to harm the masses in ways that the right is reluctant to do. I would look at it a different way. Since the late 1970s,

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Michael Smith
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 12:17:42 Doug Henwood wrote: By almost any orthodox economic measure, the U.S. is due for an austerity program... A Dem - female or black - is the perfect instrument for a homegrown structural adjustment program. A Hunger Chancellor, in other words:

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Michael Perelman
Isn't this a common pattern, that the left falls (not really wins) into office once the right model becomes exhausted, leaving the purported left to harm the masses in ways that the right is reluctant to do. On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Michael Smith wrote: A Hunger Chancellor, in

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Marvin Gandall
Louis Proyect writes: Michael Perelman wrote: Isn't this a common pattern, that the left falls (not really wins) into office once the right model becomes exhausted, leaving the purported left to harm the masses in ways that the right is reluctant to do. I would look at it a different way.

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Michael Perelman
Actually, I was thinking in more global terms, including Britain, France, ... On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:56:01PM -0500, Louis Proyect wrote: I would look at it a different way. Since the late 1970s, American capitalism has had a need to attack wages, working conditions, the social safety net,

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Julio Huato
Doug wrote: By almost any orthodox economic measure, the U.S. is due for an austerity program. The consumption share of GDP is over 70%, up from 67% a decade ago, and 62% at the end of the 1970s. There was an unprecedented housing boom and massive mortgage borrowing. Household savings are 0

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Doug Henwood
On Feb 13, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Julio Huato wrote: But I don't see why *non-orthodox* policies would be impossible Nothing's ever impossible, but why would a new president pursue them? There's no political pressure to do so, and he (it's looking less likely that it'll be a she) has little reason

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Julio Huato
Doug wrote: Nothing's ever impossible, but why would a new president pursue them [non-orthodox policies]? Because they need to buy more time, more political wiggle room for capitalism. I wish the next president would appoint Julio Huato chair of the CEA, but I don't think that's likely

Re: [PEN-L] David Brooks predicts a centrist Democratic president whoever wins

2008-02-13 Thread Michael Perelman
I was both surprised disappointed that Goolsbee hooked up with the DLC. The papers of his that I have read have been interesting, but non-political. An a Bonesman to boot! -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at