Paul Phillips
Charles Brown wrote:
By the way, the commodity produced by a teacher is labor power.
CB
Not necessarily. There is a huge adult education industry out there
with teachers instructing in everything from foreign languages for
tourists to music appreciation to craft welding all
Paul Phillips
Charles Brown wrote:
By the way, the commodity produced by a teacher is labor power.
CB
Not necessarily. There is a huge adult education industry out there
with teachers instructing in everything from foreign languages for
tourists to music appreciation to craft welding all
Leigh Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/28/2008 6:58
PM
On Jan 28, 2008 3:44 PM, David B. Shemano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps not relevant, but this reminds me of a law school exam on
secured transactions which tests the student's understanding that a
truck is inventory in the hands of the
Carrol decleared: Total mishmash
So I'll shutup.
Shane Mage wrote: Marx makes it quite clear that the wages of
socially necessary but unproductive labor are paid out of [the
circulating portion of] constant capital. While to the individual
capitalist they appear to be a deduction from surplus value, to the
capitalist system as a whole they are
On Jan 28, 2008 2:08 AM, Simon Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Carrol decleared: Total mishmash
So I'll shutup.
Ignore him... He'll go away.
guards and dealers definitely produce use-values; otherwise no-one
would pay them. But, at least in Marxian political economy, they do
not produce surplus-value. The guard simply preserves property rights,
while the cashier transfers them. The worker who produces
surplus-value -- who might be a
What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service
sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all
security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack
dealers arguably do create use value though of a dubious kind.)
-raghu.
^^^
CB: Most of the
By the way, the commodity produced by a teacher is labor power.
CB
^^^
No -- only a _commodity_ can have exchange value, and there is a great
deal of highly useful labor in any society which does not create any
sort of commodity (product or service) and thus produces no exchange
value. Teachers
No -- only a _commodity_ can have exchange value, and there is a great
deal of highly useful labor in any society which does not create any
sort of commodity (product or service) and thus produces no exchange
value. Teachers produce workers but they do not produce a commodity,
CB; Actually,
Charles Brown wrote:
By the way, the commodity produced by a teacher is labor power.
CB
Not necessarily. There is a huge adult education industry out there
with teachers instructing in everything from foreign languages for
tourists to music appreciation to craft welding all designed for the
: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?
On Jan 28, 2008 2:08 AM, Simon Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Carrol decleared: Total mishmash
So I'll shutup.
Ignore him... He'll go away.
Charles Brown wrote:
guards and dealers definitely produce use-values; otherwise no-one
would pay them. But, at least in Marxian political economy, they do
not produce surplus-value. The guard simply preserves property rights,
while the cashier transfers them. The worker who produces
From Cooks and Liars, for Simon Ward:
Don't feed the Trolls
from Crooks and Liars by John Amato
With the primaries upon us—there is no shortage of trolls.
Atrios:
I cannot make anyone stop responding to pointless or nuisance
comments. You have to want to restrain yourself, because you
raghu wrote:
Wow this is a bit overwhelming.
Jim, Louis, Thanks for the correction: I should have said
surplus-value instead of use-value.
re: security guards there is still a difference between a mall
security guard who stops shop-lifters and a security guard who keeps
trespassers out of a
Paul Philips writes:
I think one of the problems that many have with the concept of
productive/unproductive labour is that many workers are both at the same
time and the productive/unproductive aspects of their labour can not be
separated or quantified independently. Take for instance the
On Jan 28, 2008 3:44 PM, David B. Shemano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps not relevant, but this reminds me of a law school exam on secured
transactions which tests the student's understanding that a truck is
inventory in the hands of the dealer, equipment in the hands of a
business
NY Times Magazine, January 27, 2008
The Way We Live Now
Old-School Economics
By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL
Why do presidential candidates touting their concern for the economy
pose with factory workers rather than with ballet troupes? After all,
the U.S. now has more choreographers (16,340) than
On Jan 27, 2008 6:28 AM, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do presidential candidates touting their concern for the economy
pose with factory workers rather than with ballet troupes? After all,
the U.S. now has more choreographers (16,340) than metal-casters
(14,880), according to the
What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service
sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all
security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack
dealers arguably do create use value though of a dubious kind.)
-raghu.
Didn't you mean to
But Louis, isn't that the point. Unproductive labour must be paid out of
surplus value. As the ratio of unproductive to productive labour
increases, the rate of exploitation of productive labour must increase, no?
Paul Phillips
Louis Proyect wrote:
What is the Marxist take on this new
PROTECTED]
To: PEN-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?
But Louis, isn't that the point. Unproductive labour must be paid out of
surplus value. As the ratio of unproductive to productive labour
increases, the rate of exploitation of productive
Simon Ward wrote:
productive capital is drained away and
whatever capital is left is slowly but steadily transferred to unproductive
conditions - ever more luxurious housing for example or golf courses.
This is wrong; these are luxury commodities and the production of them
generates surplus
of capital?
Simon
- Original Message -
From: Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PEN-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?
Simon Ward wrote:
productive capital is drained away and
whatever capital is left is slowly but steadily transferred
raghu:
What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the service
sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After all
security guards and cashiers do not create any use value. (Blackjack
dealers arguably do create use value though of a dubious kind.)
-raghu.
Louis
The distinction between productive and unproductive has many meanings -- Even
Marx
was not entirely consistent. A golf course or a meth lab can be productive in
the
sense of producing surplus value.
On a different level of abstraction, an economy devoted exclusively to catering
to
the
12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] A New Economy?
Simon Ward wrote:
productive capital is drained away and
whatever capital is left is slowly but steadily transferred to
unproductive
conditions - ever more luxurious housing for example or golf courses.
This is wrong; these are luxury
[sent earlier by mistake, in incomplete form.]
raghu: What is the Marxist take on this new economy? Do most of the
service sector jobs fall in the category of unproductive labor? After
all security guards and cashiers do not create any use value.
(Blackjack dealers arguably do create use value
On Jan 27, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Paul Phillips wrote:
But Louis, isn't that the point. Unproductive labour must be paid
out of
surplus value. As the ratio of unproductive to productive labour
increases, the rate of exploitation of productive labour must
increase, no?
Not in the least. Marx
AP via CNN - Oct 12, 2006
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/12/robber.retirement.ap/index.html
Jobless man asks judge for jail time
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- A man who couldn't find steady work came up
with a
plan to make it through the next few years until he could collect Social
Security: He
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