David Landgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Steve Peters wrote:
On Tue, Mar 14, 2006 at 04:52:18PM +0100, David Landgren wrote:
[...]
/eg scripts are a nice hands-on way of finding out how a module works
in real life.
No distribution should be without one!
Unless, of course, it has an
Abigail [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No new keywords in perl-5.001
New in perl-5.002: tied __DATA__ sysopen prototype
No new keywords in perl-5.003
New in perl-5.004: __PACKAGE__ sysseek
New in perl-5.005: qr lock INIT
New in perl-5.6.0: CHECK our
No new keywords in
Thomas Klausner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Personally, I'm annoyed by dist that I cannot remove after installation.
If files are read-only, I'll have to do extra steps during deleting. So I
like dists which no read-only files. Which is why it's a Kwalitee indicator.
If we (whoever is interested in
Dave Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. It would be very hard to create these options.
2. Any programmer that used an 'only these' option would almost
certainly create a program that at best would not work, and at worst would
coredump. Whats happens if the user forgot to copy $/ ? What does
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In an attempt to drain the swamp...
So far as I can see, we need, in descending order of importance (and
speed) (And if there's stuff missing, add them):
1) A timestamp value
2) A way to chop the timestamp to pieces
3) A way to turn the timestamp into a
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 10:11 AM -0800 3/10/04, Brent \Dax\ Royal-Gordon wrote:
Josh Wilmes wrote:
It's also quite possible that miniparrot is a waste of time. I'm
pretty much of the opinion myself that it's an academic exercise at
this point, but one which keeps us honest,
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 11:12 AM -0800 3/10/04, Brent \Dax\ Royal-Gordon wrote:
Dan Sugalski wrote:
Which, unfortunately, will end up making things a hassle, since
there's no platform-independent way to spawn a sub-process, dammit.
:(
Unixen seem to support system().
D'oh!
Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That would seem like good future proofing. Someday every computer will
have decentish subsecond timing. I hope to see it in my lifetime...
It isn't having the sub-second time in the computer it is the API
to get at it...
My guess is that eventually
Mark Sparshatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm not 100% certain about the details but I think this is how it works.
In languages like C++ objects and classes are completely seperate.
classes form an inheritance heirachy and objects are instances of a
particular class.
However in some languages (I
Arthur Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is Ponie, development release 2
And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick ponie anyway? I mean all
you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and
crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the
Andrew Dougherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Whilst trying to build ponie-2 on Solaris 8, I came across the following
issue: In order to use threads, both perl-5.[89].x and parrot need to
call some sort of yield() function.
In parrot, sched_yield is used; this function is available in the -lrt
Brian Cassidy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Leon,
-Original Message-
Does anyone have any features they'd like to see on the website? I'm
looking at extracting more information (Perl version, platform) and
having pages (and thus RSS) per author.
If you're going to do RSS, why not
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 08:35:28AM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One thing to keep in mind is portability. In order for this to be useful
it has to run on pretty much all platforms. Unix, Windows, VMS
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One thing to keep in mind is portability. In order for this to be useful
it has to run on pretty much all platforms. Unix, Windows, VMS, etc...
So I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 05:29:49PM +, Adrian Howard
Rafael Garcia-Suarez [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thomas Klausner wrote:
there are currently 4 dists on CPAN that only include a configure script
(makepp-1.19, glist-0.9.17a10, swig1.1p5, shufflestat-0.0.3)
179 do not include any of Makefile.PL, Build.PL or configure.
Quite a lot come with
Matthew O. Persico [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:48:11 -0500, Andy Lester wrote:
[snip]
The project page is at http://qa.perl.org/phalanx/. Please take a
look, tell me your thoughts, and if there are any serious ommissions
from the Phalanx 100 module list...
Tk?
If the Phalanx
Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From a Perl 6 perspective, it seems likely that C%_ will be the name
commonly used for the slurpy hash of a subroutine. Just as C@_ will often
be the name used for the slurpy array. See Exegesis 6 for more details.
Indeed, when it comes to object
We have been discussing how to pass data to Tk callbacks.
In particular Entry widget validation routines.
There are a number of items that they _might_ be interested in
but a typical routine would only use a few.
Currently it passes them all as positional parameters.
One idea that occured to
-genererated stuff */
foo_MAX
};
where foo_MAX is a handy number of entries value as well
as avoiding the trailing comma issue.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
is filing them as SPAM
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
be a perl6 question, for a more serious -O2 optimiser.
Hmm. Would parrot benefit from nand and nor ops?
[beware of cross posting when replying]
Nicholas Clark
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
programs spend enough time doing logical comparison to
really matter. Besides which, such techniques work best on complex
expressions, which are rare indeed.
I could be wrong, of course. Maybe someone could run some benchmarks?
brian.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
allow me to get
a backtrace to the segfault.
Maybe have the handler unless -DDEBUGGING ?
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
that we want to aim for. People are already
running into porting issues with the existing system, and putting in
workarounds - lets try and head that off before it's too late.
-R (either dropping a pin, or pulling it from the grenade.)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
to break the rules or
provide its own hooks for meta data and could use the string API.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
to the shadows.
Given the inner functions we could presumable generate the decode
functions (c.f. xsubpp)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
will be lossless, but this
makes me wonder whether that assumption is correct.
One reason perl5.7.1+'s Encode does not do asian encodings yet is that
the tables I have found so far (Mainly Unicode 3.0 based) are lossy.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u
bears and even
teddy bears get drunk
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
as well - I will switch threads as soon
as the regexp completes ...
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
68 /* integer 1 */
uri
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
).
One problem with FORTH was allocating two growable segments for its
two stacks - one always ended up 2nd class.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
of such mess for us.
Both use the same regsters, have the same net result, but the explicit
scheme requires an extra 11 numbers in the bytecode, not to mention all
the extra cycles required to extract out those nunmbers from the bytecode
in the first place.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 02:08 PM 5/30/2001 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
Classic CISC code generation taught us that CISC is a pain to code-gen.
(I am not a Guru but did design TMS320C80's RISC specifically to match
gcc of that vintage, and dabbled in a p-code for Pascal way
Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NI == Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NI The overhead of op dispatch is a self-proving issue - if you
NI have complex ops they are expensive to dispatch.
but as someone else said, we can design our own ops to be as high level
as we want
Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
. If virtual machine registers are in memory then
accessing them on the stack is just as efficient (perhaps more so)
than at some other special location. And it avoids need for
memory-to-memory moves to push/pop them when we do spill.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni
Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NI == Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NI We need to decide where a perl6 sub's local variables are going
NI to live (in the recursive case) - if we need a stack anyway it
NI may make sense for VM to have ways of indexing the local frame
delighted to
say that _modern_ (Sun) SPARCs have deep enough windows even for me -
but SPARCStation1+ and some of the lowcost CPUs didn't.)
Alan Burlison
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
thread by the way?)
What I do agree with is that
push a
push b
add
pop r
is lousy way to code r = a + b - too much pointless copying.
We want
add #a,#b,#r
were #a is a small number indexing into somewhere where a is stored.
Graham.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new
(whoops sorry, TI's) code and
it does not seem to hurt even on X86 CISC machines.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
who is looking for a new job see http://www.ni-s.u-net.com/
Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nick Ing-Simmons writes:
: You really have to talk about overloading boolean context
: in general.
:
: Only if you are going to execute the result in the normal perl realm.
: Consider using the perl parser to build a parse tree - e.g. one to
: read perl5
it at this low a level.
That would work ;-)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
eval is easy just let the overload code do it
same as for any other overload.
Please tell me if there really is an use for overloading and || that
would not be better done with source filtering, then I will (maybe)
reconsider my opinion.
- Branden
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via
it wants to return not true/false but it depends on what $a is at run-time.
It cannot do that and is not passed $b so cannot return
new Operator::-('',$a,$b)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
see any ESP there? Do you see any parsing of arbitrary pieces of
code? No, me neither.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
of writing
/*
=pod
and
=cut
*/
Perhaps we could teach pod that /* was alias for =pod
and */ an alias for =cut ?
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
gs with OO packages not designed to work
round its oddities.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
considered that they had to provide manpower
to assist in merge
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
l that
we cannot tolerate abuse of those desires and our kind and generous
spirit.
I think it will be very hard to get Perl's "spirit" into enforcable legalese
- but it may be worth trying.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
for us. I mean a perl program that opens the
C/C++ source of the kernel, looks for pre-defined functions that should be
inlined, and outputs processed C/C++ in ``spaghetti-style'', very messy,
very human-unreadable, and very efficient.
And already discussed ;-)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROT
at least) to say that the initial implementation will
assume 2s complement as we have nothing to test that we've got all the 2s
complement assumptions out or the conditionally compiled non 2s complement
code correct.
FWIW IEEE-754 Floating point isn't 2's complement for the mantissa.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
thru the loop.
Which is exactly what Chip did in his safe-signals patch. 33% slowdown.
I don't believe it - can we add a stub test and bench mark it?
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
for the speed hit I introduced
way back with the record reading code...)
Nick has yet to touch sv_gets() - partly 'cos it was too scary to mess
with - so you can if you like ;-)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
() when it did get called.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
me as my ideas above, just a different style loop.
What I am trying to get to is adding minimal extra tests to the tight loop.
We probably need at least ONE test in the loop - let us try and make
that usable for all the "abnormal" cases.
uri
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Vi
to cast bleadperl5's PerlIO into the form of a _draft_ PDD
for perl6 - i.e. "this is what it does now", not "this is what it should do".
Then we can discuss it here some more.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
. (Not that hard, but
I don't want to rule them out needlessly)
I suspect that any that are up to running anything approximating perl
will have 32-bit ops in a library in any case.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
algorithms
"know" how many terms of power series are needed to reach (say) IEEE-754
"double".
Thus a "big float" still needs to decide how precise it is going to
be or atan2(1,1)*4 (aka PI) is going to take a while to compute...
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
and have another
int-of-some-kind as its exponent. We don't need to pack it tightly
so we should probably avoid IEEE-like hidden MSB. The size of exponent
is one area where "known range of int" is important.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 18 Dec 00, at 15:21, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
There needs to be a hierachy of _repertoires_ such that:
ASCII is subset of Native is subset of wchar_t is subset of UNICODE.
But we can't even rely on that. I can imagine a couple of Native
encodings
y' methods;
the role of the latter being to create the subsidiary SV and update the
type of the main SV to the 'with subsidiary' type.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
say "we tried that it didn't
work" too.
^ because
Nicholas Clark
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
slow - if they go to
unbuffered stderr which is an X window of some kind they can end up
waiting for an ACK from the X server, which may have to wait for
blanking and a move of a mega-pixel or two to do a scroll.
Perceived slowness is also important.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED
ype (eg NV), and that all numeric to string
conversions should similary convert to a fixed string type (eg utf8).
(Although I'm not sure that really helps.)
I can't see how that helps.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
aking a lot about
this subject on perl6-internals!!
So, should I have the courage of my convictions and let rip, or should I
just leave this to wiser people? Answers on a postcard, please
We old'ns need people that don't know "it can't be done" to tell us
how to do it - but we reserve the right to say "we tried that it didn't
work" too.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
e language stuff is in the "data" part.
But switching lexer and parser's look-ahead "token" at language
boundaries is a tad tricky. But that is probably not what is being discussed
here.
(Nick just passing through...)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
languages handle this, but s-expressions are so trivial to parse
that it's no help to simply "follow" their example.
So does Tcl - but it is also trivial to "parse" - all its complexity
is in the semantics of interpolation.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Vi
ot;$name$suffix"
upvar $command [expr $level-2]
set command "$command {$value}"
set $command
}
messy foo "[$index]" 3 {expr $command+1}
That "obviously" compiles to the bytecode for
$foo{$index}++
;-)
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
types.
I would argue one does that by making the regex API more modular.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
if ("N{gamma}".title_case(join($klingon,@welsh)) =~ /$urdu/)
who's operators get called ?
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
up from 1 RISC CPU I know quite well.
Nicholas Clark
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
David Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What are string functions in your view?
m//
s///
join()
substr
index
lc, lcfirst, ...
| ~
++
vec
'.'
'.='
It rapidly gets out of hand.
Perhaps, but consider that somewhere
Jarkko Hietaniemi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 03:21:05PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So, before we start even thinking about what we need, it's time to look at the
vexed question of string representation. How do we do Unicode
.
I suspect the answers are "no" and (2) is eliminated as "dead code" ;-)
Dave.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
n't
know what is obvious vs what is obscure - so anyone "taught" by me
has to ask questions rather than be lectured to.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
whatever-replaces-SV rather than invent
another counted string type.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
meters at this point - then we can decide
how best to group them and provide wrapper(s) that call the zillion
parameter version. If there turns out to be only one sensible wrapper
then it can become _the_ interface.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:42 AM 11/29/00 +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
FILE * is not a good idea. PerlIO * is fine.
The problem with that is we're potentially getting the filehandle from
something
if set to
FILE * is not a good idea. PerlIO * is fine.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
say) XFree() it rather than Safefree() it. Which is a pain when data
is big.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
on opcodes was not too bad.
But the escape bytes are getting out of hand now...
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
e
@found = chaim =~ /RFC +(\d+)/;
not spend time stacking a lot of data back that's only about to be discarded.
But this isn't internals really, is it? I'm miles off topic.
Nicholas Clark
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
ather than read (cf sfio).
"win32" layer that does IO straight to Handle level rather than via
MS's idea of how UNIX read/write work.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"NI" == Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
p5p removed
NI I have guts of a stack-of-layers PerlIO scheme coded now
NI (//depot/perlio/... for those with perforce access - merge to 5.7.0
NI will occur as soon a Jarrko likes.)
does
Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What I'd like to see us avoid is the current situation where trying
to examine the value of an SV in the debugger is all but impossible
for anybody other than a minor god.
What is so hard about:
gdb call Perl_sv_dump(sv)
???
Tom
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
ncluded then
permission is granted to distribute the Package.
_
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--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
eratorNode' but you cannot
get $a $b to produce bless ['',$a,$b],'OperatorNode' whatever you do.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
thing.
That allows the opcodes to have stable well-known semantics.
Agreed - but the vtable scheme above does not preclude that.
- Ken
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
tely.
Until then:
Later,
Ben
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Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
versions.
While the 'AL' by avoiding the special language avoids all those issues,
but _instead_ would require legal discussion of what it meant at the
time of the dispute.
So _if_ we need a "Legally Binding Form" - we also need a "This is
what that means" form.
--
Nic
was confusing.
I would be fascinated to see how a "reasonable fee" could be better
defined. Media cost may not be the issue, it may be fuel cost to
fly across Australia to deliver it, or a large fee may be "reasonable"
just for the expertise to providing it on RTX11 8-inch floppies.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
from
work at least, as I have not the mental energy required to extract
such a thing from the corporate entity.
I would happily sign such a thing personally, but who knows what my
contract with TI actually _is_ - I know I don't - so such a thing may
not be binding.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL
definition of that spirit is taken from Tom's rant about
artistic control and honesty), do you see a net win to adopting
it?
Yes, but I pesonally doubt that something lawyers liked would be
readable - I have read too many patent claims.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking
ossed" to show why bits got changed.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
ake it legally sound.
Fine - I for one would be happy to read such a draft and see if it
"says the same" as far as my care-abouts are concerned.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
d is to have its own value for $b, then the fetch() op
can't hold a pointer to *the* value.
Each thread's view of the sub has its own scratch-pad - value is at same
index in each.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
?
-- BKS
__
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
of the problems that are
currently being discussed.
Yes - Uri has started [EMAIL PROTECTED] to discuss that stuff.
Grant M.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
Ken Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Short
circuiting should not be customizable by each type for example.
We are already having that argument^Wdiscussion elsewhere ;-)
But I agree variable vtables are not the place for that.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
uninteresting cases, and get in the
way of doing it "properly".
--
Nick Ing-Simmons
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