Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-29 Thread Jerome Vouillon
On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 10:36:54AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: That is a worthy consideration, but expressiveness takes precedence over it in this case. DFAs are really only good for telling you *whether* and *where* a pattern matches as a whole. They are relatively useless for telling you

Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
I have no objection to pattern operators like ::: in principle, but I do have a potential concern about them. Given that the operators are actually defined in terms of backtracking within the RE engine, does this constrain the implementation such that it MUST be a backtracking implementation

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Simon Cozens
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Deven T. Corzine) writes: Would it be _possible_ to create a non-backtracking implementation of a Perl 6 pattern engine I don't believe that it is, but not just because of : and friends. Why does it matter? -- Life sucks, but it's better than the alternative. -- Peter da

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 10:57 AM -0400 8/28/02, Deven T. Corzine wrote: Would it be _possible_ to create a non-backtracking implementation of a Perl 6 pattern engine, or does the existence of backtracking-related operators preclude this possibility in advance? In general, no of course it's not possible to create a

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
On 28 Aug 2002, Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Deven T. Corzine) writes: Would it be _possible_ to create a non-backtracking implementation of a Perl 6 pattern engine I don't believe that it is, but not just because of : and friends. Why does it matter? I'm not saying we

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 10:57 AM -0400 8/28/02, Deven T. Corzine wrote: Would it be _possible_ to create a non-backtracking implementation of a Perl 6 pattern engine, or does the existence of backtracking-related operators preclude this possibility in advance? In

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Sean O'Rourke
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Deven T. Corzine wrote: Would it be better for the matching of (Jun|June) to be undefined and implementation-dependent? Or is it best to require leftmost semantics? For an alternation spelled out explicitly in the pattern, it seems like undefined matching would be

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Larry Wall
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Deven T. Corzine wrote: : I'm not saying we should dump the operators -- if we get more power by : assuming a backtracking implementation, maybe that's a worthwhile tradeoff. : : On the other hand, if we can keep the implementation possibilities more : open, that's always

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Larry Wall
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Deven T. Corzine wrote: : I'd like to do that, if I can find the time. It would be interesting to : make a small experimental prototype to see if DFA construction could really : improve performance over backtracking, but it would probably need to be a : very restricted

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 10:36 AM -0700 8/28/02, Larry Wall wrote: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Deven T. Corzine wrote: : I'm not saying we should dump the operators -- if we get more power by : assuming a backtracking implementation, maybe that's a worthwhile tradeoff. : : On the other hand, if we can keep the implementation

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Larry Wall wrote: : (1) Can we have a :study modifier in Perl 6 for patterns? : : It could be a no-op if necessary, but it could take the place of Perl 5's : study operator and indicate that the programmer WANTS the pattern : optimized for maximum runtime speed, even

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Steve Fink
On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 12:55:44PM -0400, Deven T. Corzine wrote: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 10:57 AM -0400 8/28/02, Deven T. Corzine wrote: On the other hand, :, ::, ::: and commit don't necessarily need to be a problem if they can be treated as hints that can be

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Larry Wall wrote: That is a worthy consideration, but expressiveness takes precedence over it in this case. I see nothing wrong with expressiveness taking precedence -- I'm only saying that it would be best to be cognizant of any restrictions we're hardcoding into the

Re: Does ::: constrain the pattern engine implementation?

2002-08-28 Thread Deven T. Corzine
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Steve Fink wrote: On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 12:55:44PM -0400, Deven T. Corzine wrote: On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 10:57 AM -0400 8/28/02, Deven T. Corzine wrote: On the other hand, :, ::, ::: and commit don't necessarily need to be a problem if