Re: Perl 6 Wiki -- 2 more possibilities, further discussion.
The (oh so very cool) idea of implementing the perl 6 wiki IN perl 6 (eventually) is a powerful argument. I also concede that control issues mean we don't want the official wiki to be on wikipedia. Kwiki is already a perl-based wiki, but I have no experience using it. We don't have to put perl 6 under the pugs subdomain, that was just an example. --michael On 25/05/06, Conrad Schneiker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Responding to 3 notes on 2 mail lists here; Changed subject line.) Juerd wrote: Feather, the semi-public, semi-private, Perl 6 development server, is available to host a Perl 6 wiki. The hostname www.perl6.nl is deliberately kept available for something like that. Does that mean you are willing to be the one to set up a Perl 6 Wiki and administer it? (Preferably using perl5 wiki software, so that the Perl 6 Wiki could be available as soon as possible?) If so, how much more encouragement do you need to proceed? From: Michael Mathews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] As a competing suggestion, how about... http://pugs.kwiki.org/?perl6 Very interesting. But did you look at it? :-) I found this on the home page link target: Consider using Subversion instead of this Wiki 20051213Z05:58 audreyt I'd like it [the wiki] to be strictly a scratchpad for lambdacamels. all reusable docs should be in the svn tree (and now Perl6::Doc) This reminds me of my earlier suggestion: Could we use part of Pugs doc tree as alternative to perl6-user-doc wiki? http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/28 The basic idea is this: since the pugs svn tree is mirrored at perl.org, we could have a subdirectory (for example Perl_6_ Wiki) in the docs branch of the source tree that would have a wiki-like hierarchy of html pages (or pod pages for generating html) below it. The downside is that it would take somewhat more effort to make changes and additions. However, it might still be a good idea to take periodic snapshots of a separate semi-officially designated primary Perl 6 Wiki and stash it in the source/doc tree (or maybe in a CPAN module Perl6::DOC::Wiki) so that it would be available for offline help systems / searching. I'm not really set on any option as long as it works and makes sense to everyone, including those outside this list. I probably missed it, but could you give the stated purpose for the wiki again, as I think a reminder (for me at least) would help. Several people thought it would be a good idea to have a common place that made it *easy* to collect and organize useful information about perl6--stuff that is beyond the scope of standard documentation. There is a lot of interesting and useful perl6 information that is widely dispersed in talks, documents, articles, and so on Likewise some of it current, some of it obsolete, and much in between. Having a central collection that is easy to browse and that is subject to substantial ongoing indirect review could be very valuable. Think of the Perl 6 wiki as a vastly expanded FAQ that supplemented many of the links with semi-consolidated content. Or think of it as a semi-free-form meta-CPAN for interesting documentation. Or think of it as a perl6 community gathering point and mega-billboard. Some examples of suggested content: What are the main benefits of major perl6 features? Why were various features done one way and not another? How are they intended to be used? What are the benefits of perl6 relative to other languages? What are the counter-arguments to various anti-perl6 FUD? On 24/05/06, Michael Mathews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example there is nothing stopping anyone (including members of this list) from creating and populating pages on www.wikipedia.org about Perl6 and this user group. Then those pages would be available to the wikipedia search engine. --- Insert any other popular wiki there. I'd thought of that, but there's always the background issue of moderation and control. (We definitely want the Perl 6 Wikipedia page to link to our Perl 6 Wiki, of course.) I don't think Wikipedia is (at present) a suitable forum for semi-controversial topics. Language advocacy / competitive marketing is a highly contentious and emotional religious issue for many people, and we certainly want perl6 people to feel free to indulge in (reasonably civil) unbridled advocacy of all things perl6. And of course with the ominipresence of google, finding and searching is always becoming less of a problem. In my experience, finding and searching has become more of a problem--in particular: (1) with too many irrelevant matches, and (2) with too many matches that turn up obsolete info. That's precisely one of the reasons I started prodding #perl6 about a newsgroup for perl6 users. Being able to limit your searches to group archives of what you are specifically interested in often makes search results much more useful. Precisely one of the reasons that a Perl 6 Wiki could be very cool is that the
Re: Perl 6 Wiki -- 2 more possibilities, further discussion.
Please, for proper threading, don't reply to multiple messages at once. Conrad Schneiker skribis 2006-05-25 1:46 (-0700): Juerd wrote: Feather, the semi-public, semi-private, Perl 6 development server, is available to host a Perl 6 wiki. The hostname www.perl6.nl is deliberately kept available for something like that. Does that mean you are willing to be the one to set up a Perl 6 Wiki and administer it? (Preferably using perl5 wiki software, so that the Perl 6 Wiki could be available as soon as possible?) If so, how much more encouragement do you need to proceed? Willing, certainly. Lacking tuits, that too. I could set up wiki software in a few minutes, but then, so could anyone else. Personally, I think this shouldn't be rushed: there are lots of wikis, and typically they're incompatible in terms of syntax and storage. Also, I'd really love a Perl 6 wiki written in Perl 6 itself. Revision control can be outsourced to svn, leaving practically only a small bit of HTTP and wikitext parsing. However, this is still too much work for me to handle at this moment. The concept of feather is that I provide hardware, and system administration, and that others can then use that. Feather is very actively used, and it'd be nonsense to assume that everything on it is, or should be, done by me. I actively avoid getting involved too much, because I know that I won't be able to handle things as they expand. Feather was donated exactly because I wanted to do something for Perl 6 volunteers, without needing to spend much time, because I don't have that much time to spend on computing, because of personal circumstances. As a competing suggestion, how about... http://pugs.kwiki.org/?perl6 Very interesting. But did you look at it? :-) I found this on the home page link target: I know, and have contributed to, the Pugs wiki. If I may note: I don't like kwiki syntax, and much prefer a mediawiki-like syntax. I'd thought of that, but there's always the background issue of moderation and control. (We definitely want the Perl 6 Wikipedia page to link to our Perl 6 Wiki, of course.) I don't think Wikipedia is (at present) a suitable forum for semi-controversial topics. Language advocacy / competitive marketing is a highly contentious and emotional religious issue for many people, and we certainly want perl6 people to feel free to indulge in (reasonably civil) unbridled advocacy of all things perl6. Agreed. Feather has the powerful future marketing advantage that it can also be used to develop and then host a showcase Perl 6 implementation of the Perl 6 Wiki. However, I think that we should initially *begin* with a solid and proven Perl 5 wiki implementation that we can use *immediately*. If we could do this, then this would be my first preference. Beginning with a Perl 5 wiki, with lots of features, and migrating to a Perl 6 wiki later, means you have to support all of the 5-wiki's features for compatibility. That may not be a great plan, as a huge stack of functional requirements makes creative programming less interesting, and it may then never happen. If nobody is able to spend a day on a simple Perl 6 wiki today, why would they be able to spend *several* days on a backwards compatible wiki later? Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html http://convolution.nl/gajigu_juerd_n.html
