Re: [GENERAL] Populating a sparse array piecemeal in plpgsql

2008-05-15 Thread Tom Lane
Eliot, Christopher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CREATE FUNCTION func1() RETURNS VOID AS $$ DECLARE a INTEGER[2][2][2][200]; BEGIN a[1][2][1][33] = 0; a[2][1][1][33] = 0; END; $$ LANGUAGE PLPGSQL; When I run this function, I get: ERROR: array subscript out of range.

Re: [GENERAL] multicolumn index join

2008-05-15 Thread Alban Hertroys
On May 13, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Stephen Ince wrote: I have to do a multicolumn self-join to find the median. I am using postgres 8.2. How do I force postgres to use an index scan? I have a multicolumn index but postgres is not using it. Query explain

[GENERAL] Strange behaviour - performance decreases after each TRUNCATE

2008-05-15 Thread IVO GELOV
Hallow. My name is IVO GELOV. Please excuse my English, it is not my primary language. I've started to learn PostgreSQL with version 8.1, doing 2 upgrades - to 8.2.4 and now 8.3.1 I consider myself still a novice. Currently I'm porting our small warehouse application from MySQL to Postgre.

[GENERAL] Non completing Vacuumdb

2008-05-15 Thread Willie Smith
Is there a log file for the vacuum utility, aside from using stdout? I ran the vacuumdb utility against my database and it only vacuumed one table after the PG tables and did not issue and error before ending. Is there a debugging or diagnostic facility available?

Re: [GENERAL] Hung SQL Update Linux Redhat 4U5 Postgres 8.3.1

2008-05-15 Thread Craig Vosburgh
Craig Vosburgh craig(dot)vosburgh(at)cassatt(dot)com writes: We've dumped the locks and it shows that all locks have been granted so it appears that it is not a lock that is standing in our way. We've also gone in via psql while the update is hung and were able to perform an update on the

[GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Semi Noob
Dear all, I have a postgres 8.2.5 and ~6 GB database with lots of simple selects using indexes. I see that they use the shared memory so much. Before, my server has 4GB of RAM, shmmax 1GB, Shared_buffers is set to 256 MB, effective_cache_size 300MB, when i test it's performance with option -c 40

[GENERAL] Question on warm standby log shipping

2008-05-15 Thread Jens Wilke
Hi, I hacked up some scripts to do warm standby log shipping with postgresql version 8.2.7. Everything is fine, but I have one remaining curiosity. The restore script looks like: --snipp-- from=$1; to=$2; while true; do if test -f $ARCHIVEDIR/$from; then src=$ARCHIVEDIR/$from; mv $src

[GENERAL] problem with importing dbf file into postgresql using navicat on mac OS X

2008-05-15 Thread Mathias Ghys
Hi everyone, I bought a dvd containing all the roads and positions of houses in Belgium. Now it already worked to import all the gml files into my postgresql database. But the easier import of dbf files always turns out wrong. I use navicat on a mac OS X system. I always get the

[GENERAL] Strange behaviour - performance decreases after each TRUNCATE

2008-05-15 Thread IVO GELOV
Hallow. My name is IVO GELOV. Please excuse my English, it is not my primary language. I've started to learn PostgreSQL with version 8.1, doing 2 upgrades - to 8.2.4 and now 8.3.1 I consider myself still a novice. Currently I'm porting our small warehouse application from MySQL to Postgre.

[GENERAL] Getting column values in Hex

2008-05-15 Thread UniChar
In PostgreSQL 8.3, how can I get the hex values of the contents of a column and row in a table? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-column-values-in-Hex-tp17239949p17239949.html Sent from the PostgreSQL - general mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Sent via

[GENERAL] help

2008-05-15 Thread Elizabeth George
Hi I am trying to execute the query SET CLIENT_ENCODING TO 'UNICODE'; copy (select 1 as F1) to E'c:\\test.out' csv QUOTE AS E'\xFE' FORCE QUOTE F1; I got error like ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding UTF8: 0xfe HINT: This error can also happen if the byte sequence does not

[GENERAL] Problem with transaction isolation level

2008-05-15 Thread Michal Szymanski
Hi, I develop telecommunication software and I have encountered problem with isolation level in Postgres. Our database receive special packets that informs about end of call, and from time to time (it happens when such packets arrive almost in the same time e.g 8ms difference) one call charge

[GENERAL] Re: Upgreade 8.3.0 to 8.3.1 on windows: insufficient privileges to install system service

2008-05-15 Thread Kev
On May 13, 7:02 am, Lionel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did not have this problem on my development server which is identically configured (appart the fact I do not use a distant connection) Thanks I had a different problem (initdb errors) where the only difference was whether I was on

[GENERAL] help

2008-05-15 Thread Elizabeth George
Hi I am trying to execute the query SET CLIENT_ENCODING TO 'UNICODE'; copy (select 1 as F1) to E'c:\\test.out' csv QUOTE AS E'\xFE' FORCE QUOTE F1; I got error like ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding UTF8: 0xfe HINT: This error can also happen if the byte sequence does not

Re: [GENERAL] postgres crash when select a record

2008-05-15 Thread mailtolouis2020-postgres
Hello Pavel, Thanks for the info, this is very great help. Regard Louis - Original Message From: Pavel Stehule [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Postgres pgsql-general@postgresql.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:43:36 AM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgres crash when select a

Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL 8.3.x Win32-Releases - always without psqlODBC?

2008-05-15 Thread gorsa
would like to know if there were developments on this. i also encountered this problem when i switched to 8.3 and also to 8.3.1 on my test server. my production server continues to be running ok on 8.1 though ; if there really is no more bundled odbc package with the postgres installer, i'd like

[GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Bohdan Linda
Hello, I have the following problem. A multiuser app has authentization and authorization done based on pgsql. The frontend is web based so it is stateless; it is connecting to database on every get/post. There is also a requirement that the user is transparently logged in for some period of

Re: [GENERAL] Problem with transaction isolation level

2008-05-15 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Michal Szymanski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think problem is because we use default Read Commited isolation level. In presented example value of credit should be changed only if call_statusFINS and first transaction after modification of credit value set

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Semi Noob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But after upgrade the max clients is also 64 (?!?) Is this the maximum clients support by program pgbench (my server on Linux ver8.2.5, pgbench on Windows - version postgresql is 8.3.1)? And the number 57 tps is fast? You

Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL 8.3.x Win32-Releases - always without psqlODBC?

2008-05-15 Thread Dave Page
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:10 AM, gorsa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: would like to know if there were developments on this. i also encountered this problem when i switched to 8.3 and also to 8.3.1 on my test server. my production server continues to be running ok on 8.1 though ; if there really is

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Allan Kamau
Hi Bohdan, Is your web applications for use with PostgreSQL server administration where you would like users to supply their login credentials for PostgreSQL so that their actions within the db can be limited by the fine gain privileges assigned to them? If it is not then you may want to

Re: [GENERAL] Non completing Vacuumdb

2008-05-15 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Willie Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a log file for the vacuum utility, aside from using stdout? I ran the vacuumdb utility against my database and it only vacuumed one table after the PG tables and did not issue and error before ending. Is there a

[GENERAL] calculating extent on basis of distance from a given point

2008-05-15 Thread User Map
hi, i have OSGB36 data in postgre, srid 27700. what i want to do is to calculate the extent on basis of the distance from a given point. i have geom of type geometry in the table, from which to calculate extent. i have tried the funtions Distance(geom,geom)50, but it is too slow, as it uses no

Re: [GENERAL] help

2008-05-15 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 03:30:09PM +0530, Elizabeth George wrote: SET CLIENT_ENCODING TO 'UNICODE'; copy (select 1 as F1) to E'c:\\test.out' csv QUOTE AS E'\xFE' FORCE QUOTE F1; I got error like ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding UTF8: 0xfe HINT: This error can also happen if

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Pavan Deolasee
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Semi Noob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I set max_connections is 200. What error message you get when you try with more than 64 clients ? 57 seems a small number, according to you, how much tps is normal or fast? Its difficult to say how much is good. On my

[GENERAL] Howto return values from a function

2008-05-15 Thread A B
I'm still trying to learn to write plpgsql functions, but I find the docs a little short on examples on how to return stuff from a function. I'm very grateful for any help on this. There are some basic cases I've identified. 1) when I want to return all records found by a query , like this

Re: [GENERAL] problem with importing dbf file into postgresql using navicat on mac OS X

2008-05-15 Thread John DeSoi
On May 12, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Mathias Ghys wrote: Error Message: ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding UTF8: 0xe96f70 HINT: This error can also happen if the byte sequence does not match the encoding expected by the server, which is controlled by client_encoding. My postgresql

Re: [GENERAL] Howto return values from a function

2008-05-15 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 02:25:36PM +0200, A B wrote: I'm still trying to learn to write plpgsql functions, but I find the docs a little short on examples on how to return stuff from a function. I'm very grateful for any help on this. What exactly about the documentation isn't clear?

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Semi Noob
Thank you for your answer! *You did not give CPU and disk info. But still 57 seems a small number. What I guess is you're running pgbench with scale factor 1 (since you haven't mentioned scale factor) and that causes extreme contention for smaller tables with large number of clients.* My CPU is

Re: [GENERAL] Howto return values from a function

2008-05-15 Thread A B
What exactly about the documentation isn't clear? I would have liked a few more examples... but that is perhaps just me. Like the documentation says: SETOF sometype. Ah, so I just create my own type with CREATE TYPE ... and use that type in the function. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list

Re: [GENERAL] Howto return values from a function

2008-05-15 Thread A. Kretschmer
am Thu, dem 15.05.2008, um 14:46:02 +0200 mailte A B folgendes: What exactly about the documentation isn't clear? I would have liked a few more examples... but that is perhaps just me. http://www.java2s.com/Code/PostgreSQL/CatalogPostgreSQL.htm Like the documentation says: SETOF

[GENERAL] Tsearch2 Upgrade from 8.2 to 8.3.1

2008-05-15 Thread Gerhard Wiesinger
Hello! I want to upgrade from 8.2 to 8.3.1 but I've problems: I did a pg_dumpall but this doesn't work. I found the migration guide with a trick to load the new contrib/tsearch2 module. But how is this done exactly? -

[GENERAL] problem with serial data type and access

2008-05-15 Thread Ottavio Campana
I know it's not fully IT with the list, but maybe somebody can help me. I'm dealing with this scenario: access 97 is connected through odbc to a postgresql server. All tables are saved in postgresql and access is used only to generated the program interface. Everything works fines, but I'm

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Fernando
You could try to have a function in your application that encrypts the connection string and store it in a session variable. When you need it you decrypted from the session variables. Session variables are stored as files on the server, therefore the risk is not as high. Just a thought.

Re: [GENERAL] Populating a sparse array piecemeal in plpgsql

2008-05-15 Thread Eliot, Christopher
Thank you for your reply, but I don't really understand how to use this information. My problem is that I can put one value into this array, and that's it. Any subsequent attempts to put another value elsewhere in the array are rebuffed, saying that the subscripts are out of range. I don't

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre*s*

2008-05-15 Thread ludwig
In our web-based-solution (PHP) the database credentials (username and password) are encrypted and stored by PHP as session-Variables.Yes, there is the risk, they could be read by someone, who has access to the apache-sessions-directory, but this user also must have access to the php-scripts with

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Justin
Pavan Deolasee wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Semi Noob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I set max_connections is 200. What error message you get when you try with more than 64 clients ? I have the max connection set 50. You want to be careful with this setting if theres

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Steve Crawford
Bohdan Linda wrote: Hello, I have the following problem. A multiuser app has authentization and authorization done based on pgsql. The frontend is web based so it is stateless; it is connecting to database on every get/post. There is also a requirement that the user is transparently logged in

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre*s*

2008-05-15 Thread Steve Crawford
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... By the way, this is an *intra*net-solution, and we don't have hackers in our staff, I hope... Cross your fingers - most compromises come from inside the firewall. Cheers, Steve -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make

Re: [GENERAL] Populating a sparse array piecemeal in plpgsql

2008-05-15 Thread Tom Lane
Eliot, Christopher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you for your reply, but I don't really understand how to use this information. My problem is that I can put one value into this array, and that's it. Any subsequent attempts to put another value elsewhere in the array are rebuffed, saying

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Steve Manes
Bohdan Linda wrote: The frontend is web based so it is stateless; it is connecting to database on every get/post. There is also a requirement that the user is transparently logged in for some period of time. Tha most easy way is to store login credentials into the session. The drawback is that

Re: [GENERAL] problem with serial data type and access

2008-05-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Ottavio Campana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it's not fully IT with the list, but maybe somebody can help me. I'm dealing with this scenario: access 97 is connected through odbc to a postgresql server. All tables are saved in postgresql and access is used

Re: [GENERAL] postgres crash when select a record

2008-05-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
Definitely run some tests on the hardware, like memtest86, and some drive tests for bad blocks. -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

Re: [GENERAL] problem with serial data type and access

2008-05-15 Thread Ottavio Campana
Scott Marlowe ha scritto: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Ottavio Campana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it's not fully IT with the list, but maybe somebody can help me. I'm dealing with this scenario: access 97 is connected through odbc to a postgresql server. All tables are saved in

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Craig Ringer
Steve Crawford wrote: You can make some modest security improvements by storing things such as the browser identification and IP address in the session data and verifying it on each request but IP verification fails if the user is behind a proxy like AOL's where each request may come from a

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Bohdan Linda
Hello, thank you everyone for the answers. I went through and I forgot add one thing. The web-app is frontend, thus basically PL/PGSQL launcher and all changes are audited, so common login is unwelcome. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 05:40:49PM +0200, Steve Manes wrote: I keep the user's login

[GENERAL] DB Locks

2008-05-15 Thread Jasbinder Bali
Hello everyone, I had a concern about DB locks lately. If have a scenario where in a Cron job is running. This cron job updates a table and would take about 20 minutes to complete. In the meantime, if I query the same table using an application, will my application have to wait as the cron job

Re: [GENERAL] Question on warm standby log shipping

2008-05-15 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Jens Wilke wrote: The restore script looks like: --snipp-- from=$1; to=$2; while true; do if test -f $ARCHIVEDIR/$from; then src=$ARCHIVEDIR/$from; mv $src $to; exit 0; fi # startup triggered if test -f $triggerfile; then exit 0; fi sleep 2; done

Re: [GENERAL] Password safe web application with postgre

2008-05-15 Thread Steve Manes
Bohdan Linda wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 05:40:49PM +0200, Steve Manes wrote: I keep the user's login credentials in a TripleDES-encrypted, non-persistent cookie, separate from session data. This is the approach I am/will be heading to. Having the cookie with login and password encrypted

Re: [GENERAL] DB Locks

2008-05-15 Thread Craig Ringer
Jasbinder Bali wrote: Hello everyone, I had a concern about DB locks lately. If have a scenario where in a Cron job is running. This cron job updates a table and would take about 20 minutes to complete. In the meantime, if I query the same table using an application, will my application have

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Shane Ambler
Semi Noob wrote: My CPU is 2CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz. Disk: disk system is RAID-5; Early versions of postgresql had issues with P4 HT CPU's but I believe they have been resolved. I am quite certain that it only related to the early P4's not the Xeon. -- Shane Ambler pgSQL

Re: [GENERAL] Populating a sparse array piecemeal in plpgsql

2008-05-15 Thread Eliot, Christopher
Thanks, that worked. I actually initialized it to zeros (so that my incrementing would work). Thanks for the example. I wouldn't have figured out to put quote marks around the initialization value otherwise. Topher Eliot [EMAIL PROTECTED] [] -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Shane Ambler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Semi Noob wrote: My CPU is 2CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz. Disk: disk system is RAID-5; Early versions of postgresql had issues with P4 HT CPU's but I believe they have been resolved. I am quite certain that it

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Justin
Scott Marlowe wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Shane Ambler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Semi Noob wrote: My CPU is 2CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz. Disk: disk system is RAID-5; Early versions of postgresql had issues with P4 HT CPU's but I believe they have been

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Tom Lane
Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From every thing i have read about Hyper Threading, it should be just turned off. Depends entirely on what you're doing. I usually leave it turned on because compiling Postgres from source is measurably faster with it than without it on my dual-Xeon box. I'd

[GENERAL] sp: error message not coherent with actual code

2008-05-15 Thread Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
I've this line in a sp: select into _OrderGroupID b2c._OrderGroupID from Basket2Order(_BasketID) as b2c; but I get this error: SELECT query has no destination for result data HINT: If you want to discard the results, use PERFORM instead. CONTEXT: PL/pgSQL function basket2order line 71 at SQL

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Justin
Tom Lane wrote: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From every thing i have read about Hyper Threading, it should be just turned off. Depends entirely on what you're doing. I usually leave it turned on because compiling Postgres from source is measurably faster with it than without it

Re: [GENERAL] sp: error message not coherent with actual code

2008-05-15 Thread Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
On Thu, 15 May 2008 20:36:21 +0200 Ivan Sergio Borgonovo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've this line in a sp: select into _OrderGroupID b2c._OrderGroupID from Basket2Order(_BasketID) as b2c; but I get this error: SELECT query has no destination for result data HINT: If you want to discard

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Scott Marlowe
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sense PostgreSql is not a multi-threaded but a single thread application which spawns little exe's how is hyper threading helping Postgresql at all ?? Two ways: * The stats collector / autovacuum / bgwriter can operate on

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Craig Ringer
Justin wrote: [Since] PostgreSql is not multi-threaded but a single thread application which spawns little exe's how is hyper threading helping Postgresql at all ?? Multiple threads and multiple processes are two ways to tackle a similar problem - that of how to do more than one thing on

Re: [GENERAL] Need for help!

2008-05-15 Thread Justin
Craig Ringer wrote: Justin wrote: [Since] PostgreSql is not multi-threaded but a single thread application which spawns little exe's how is hyper threading helping Postgresql at all ?? Multiple threads and multiple processes are two ways to tackle a similar problem - that of how to do

[GENERAL] PostgreSQL executing my function too many times during query

2008-05-15 Thread D. Dante Lorenso
I have several records in my database which have encrypted fields. I want to find all the ones that match a certain format but do NOT match another. My problem is that the 'cc_encrypt' function is being executed for every matching row in the table instead of just once. The function was

Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL executing my function too many times during query

2008-05-15 Thread Tom Lane
D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This format causes the function to execute too many times: SELECT COUNT(*) AS result FROM credit_card WHERE card_number_enc = cc_encrypt('4111---', 'pwd') AND card_number_enc != cc_encrypt('4111', 'pwd'); If the

[GENERAL] triggers: dynamic references to fields in NEW and OLD?

2008-05-15 Thread Vance Maverick
I have a bunch of tables that are similar in some ways, and I'm about to put triggers on them. The triggers will all do essentially the same thing -- the only wrinkle is that the name of the column they operate on varies from table to table. I'd like to have just one trigger function, written

Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL executing my function too many times during query

2008-05-15 Thread D. Dante Lorenso
Tom Lane wrote: D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This format causes the function to execute too many times: SELECT COUNT(*) AS result FROM credit_card WHERE card_number_enc = cc_encrypt('4111---', 'pwd') AND card_number_enc != cc_encrypt('4111',

Re: [GENERAL] problem with serial data type and access

2008-05-15 Thread Adrian Klaver
On Thursday 15 May 2008 9:14 am, Ottavio Campana wrote: Scott Marlowe ha scritto: On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Ottavio Campana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it's not fully IT with the list, but maybe somebody can help me. I'm dealing with this scenario: access 97 is connected

[GENERAL] SSL auth problem

2008-05-15 Thread Vitaliyi
Good Day I'm trying to setup SSL auth. creating CA: openssl genrsa -out our.key 2048 openssl req -new -key our.key -out our.req openssl req -x509 -in our.req -text -key our.key -out root.crt then I copy root.crt on postgresql host and to client host in ~/.postgresql generating another key on

Re: [GENERAL] How to create a function with multiple RefCursor OUT parameters

2008-05-15 Thread Chuck Bai
Thank you Albe. I test your script using psql and it works as you found out. If the function is correct. Now the problem is how to use the function from client side. It could not use unnamed portal # kind of thing from client. I tested the function using Npgsql connector and it did not work. I

Re: [GENERAL] triggers: dynamic references to fields in NEW and OLD?

2008-05-15 Thread Klint Gore
Vance Maverick wrote: I have a bunch of tables that are similar in some ways, and I'm about to put triggers on them. The triggers will all do essentially the same thing -- the only wrinkle is that the name of the column they operate on varies from table to table. I'd like to have just one

Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL executing my function too many times during query

2008-05-15 Thread Tom Lane
D. Dante Lorenso [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, that not being the problem, any ideas? Is it an 8.2.4 thing? I can't reproduce any such problem in 8.2 branch tip, and a desultory scan of the CVS history back to 8.2.4 doesn't turn up any obviously related patches. Please provide a self-contained