Hi,
Yes, we should improve the debugger…
There are some nice things happening around the debugger
- In Berne, Andrei made a DebuggerModel and a Glamour UI for it.
In the current Debugger, Model and View
are completely mixed (and the implementation is kind of old
Hi, i wanted to share an old quote which i find relevant to
our community. Just replace FORTRAN's with loads of stuff we had in the
bloated images in the past, most of them useful to get were we are right
now.
FORTRAN's tragic fate has been its wide acceptance, mentally chaining
thousands and
Hi,
I would like to ask: should NativeBoost be part of the Pharo Kernel?
Currently there are some minor issues like that AsmJit-Extension package
takes ownership of Integer#, False#asBit and so on. Will NativeBoost
be more closely integrated with the kernel in the near future?
BTW, we need to
Ok it seems it was just a corupted download, everything seems to work fine now.
I have even tried the Nativeboost-Cog build that works too. Thanks everyone for
their help and clarifications.
I was wondering if it really worths working with Pharo 2 yet, in terms of
stability and new features.
First question is the link in the website the link to the latest Pharo 2 image
?
Is Athens included in the Pharo 2 image ?
How much production ready Pharo 2 image really is ?
Should I
On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:51 AM, Pavel Krivanek pavel.kriva...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to ask: should NativeBoost be part of the Pharo Kernel?
I would say right now, no.
Currently there are some minor issues like that AsmJit-Extension package
takes ownership of Integer#,
On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:54 AM, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I was wondering if it really worths working with Pharo 2 yet, in terms of
stability and new features.
I think so… there are some bugs left, but not many real showstoppers.
First question is the link in the
Hi guys
we want to thank Sensus the company of stefan eggermont to be a consortium
member.
The web site is coming.
Stef
Hi guys
we are happy to announce that VMWare is a golden consortium member of the pharo
consortium.
Stef
20432
-
Issue 6923: Missing Method in SocketStream
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6923
Issue 7112: Cleaning Manifest
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7112
Issue 7106: waiting Delays got broken when saving image
I have to say I am on of those people who love backward compatibility. I
actually come from a programming language that did exactly what the quote says.
It was not a fun experience. Python 3 broke compatibility with python 2. Most
of the libraries did ignore python 3 for quite some time and
thanks for the clarification , Pharo 2 image here I come :D
From: Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr
To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis
theki...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2012, 10:58
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:01 PM, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
So are we interested in exposing pharo to more people , linux users ?
Sure, we are interested. The most important (and difficult) thing is
to create a Debian archive (.deb file). Nicolas Petton and I worked on
that
yeah, but that's a direct path to stagnation, and that's what happened with
fortran, java and all the languages that have put backward compatibility as top
priority.
in other side, .net is not backward compatible and it has success anyway so, is
not so clear for me.
I still prefer to drop
The inventor of Ruby on Rails gave a talk about this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOFTop3AMZ8
On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:02 AM, Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.com wrote:
yeah, but that's a direct path to stagnation, and that's what happened with
fortran, java and all the
Hi,
I would like to ask who has the initials dfgs. And I have a question for
him/her. The VTermInputDriver initialization methods generate a lot of
unimplemented calls because they expect a handler object with protocol that
is not defined in the image. Do we need the VTerm classes at all? Can you
Hi Eliot,
On 11 Dec 2012, at 02:33, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.com wrote:
2012/12/9 Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu
Hi,
Would it be possible to build some kind of protection against stack overflow ?
note that there already is some mechanism. The low space mechanism is
On Dec 11, 2012 4:55 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 December 2012 00:14, Ciprian Teodorov ciprian.teodo...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Igor,
sorry for bothering you again with this issue but again somebody
(squeaksource ;)) removed me from the commiters of the NB project.
On 11 December 2012 11:58, Ciprian Teodorov ciprian.teodo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 11, 2012 4:55 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 December 2012 00:14, Ciprian Teodorov ciprian.teodo...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Igor,
sorry for bothering you again with this issue but again
... and please, please, please, use real names, not initials when committing
packages!
Esteban
On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Pavel Krivanek pavel.kriva...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to ask who has the initials dfgs. And I have a question for
him/her. The VTermInputDriver
and then you can help us to find the bugs before going to production :)
Esteban
On Dec 11, 2012, at 10:30 AM, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
thanks for the clarification , Pharo 2 image here I come :D
From: Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr
To:
On 11 December 2012 09:51, Pavel Krivanek pavel.kriva...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I would like to ask: should NativeBoost be part of the Pharo Kernel?
Currently there are some minor issues like that AsmJit-Extension package
takes ownership of Integer#, False#asBit and so on.
This is because 1.4
i would be happy to have something, which can be expressed as
following 'unit test':
Smalltalk vm setStackDepthLimit: 100.
self should: [ self recurseTimes: 101 ] throw: Exception.
Smalltalk vm setStackDepthLimit: 0. no limit
self shouldNot: [ self recurseTimes: 101 ] throw: Exception.
--
Marcus, thank you for the link.
May I ask somebody who has watched the video to post a few words of a
summary here(keywords are fine)
--Hannes
On 12/11/12, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:
The inventor of Ruby on Rails gave a talk about this topic:
What happened to Dabble DB? Is any of their source code open?
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Paul DeBruicker pdebr...@gmail.com wrote:
FDominicus wrote
I'm just wondering does anyone have/know about a kind of spreadsheet
component/application for Seaside?
Any hints are welcome
Friedrich
On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Peter H. Meadows peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com
wrote:
What happened to Dabble DB?
bought by Twitter in a talent acquisition, killed off.
Is any of their source code open?
no.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Paul DeBruicker pdebr...@gmail.com wrote:
Well in summary he says get out of your comfort zone and deal with it , bare
in mind that the video *is not* about backward compatibility but about
implementing new features in general. He also speak in purely a library and not
a language perspective.
He makes some valid points. I am not
Just out of curiosity.. How does the cutting edge of LISP compare to
what we have in Pharo at the moment? I've read somewhere that
smalltalk has the best refactoring/debugging tools. Would you agree
with that? Are there object centric lisp debuggers? If someone asked
you 'why are you working on a
Is there any chance it might become open source in the future? Any
idea what it might cost to buy?
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:
On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Peter H. Meadows
peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com wrote:
What happened to Dabble DB?
On 11 December 2012 09:32, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:
Hi,
The problem right now is that the debugger infrastructure is far more
complicated than
it should be, making is hard to change, fix and improve it.
some things are inherently complex. of course, proper (re)factoring
Oh I can assure you they do, but even more they realize the joy of your
libraries split over two different incompatible versions. Like I am torn
between squeak and pharo for many of the great libraries both packages do have.
I can say its so fun not be able to use them all at the same time :D
On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:39 PM, Peter H. Meadows
peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com wrote:
Is there any chance it might become open source in the future? Any
idea what it might cost to buy?
No idea, but I think not. Avi mentioned that the implementation would not be
really interesting
today
On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Peter H. Meadows peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com
wrote:
Just out of curiosity.. How does the cutting edge of LISP compare to
what we have in Pharo at the moment? I've read somewhere that
smalltalk has the best refactoring/debugging tools. Would you agree
with
I don't understand how setting a fixed-size stack could ever be
useful. No one would risk blowing up a production app only because
they guessed wrong about the stackDepthLimit, so for production it
would always be set to 0.
So that leaves the development use-case. During development the
system
Hi Marcus,
I figured it must be the complexity of fixing the debugger that's keeping it
in the broken state that it is for this long. Mainly I wanted to get a sense
of how important is fixing this relative to the other things that need
fixing. It would seem to me that fixing the tool that you use
problem is that in Pharo, the difference between the language and the
library is subtle :)
On Dec 11, 2012, at 4:34 PM, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Well in summary he says get out of your comfort zone and deal with it ,
bare in mind that the video *is not* about backward
On 11 Dec 2012, at 16:54, Chris Muller asquea...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't understand how setting a fixed-size stack could ever be
useful. No one would risk blowing up a production app only because
they guessed wrong about the stackDepthLimit, so for production it
would always be set to 0.
Good point.
From: Esteban Lorenzano esteba...@gmail.com
To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis
theki...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2012, 17:57
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility
problem is that in
On 11 December 2012 15:37, Peter H. Meadows
peter.h.mead...@googlemail.com wrote:
Just out of curiosity.. How does the cutting edge of LISP compare to
what we have in Pharo at the moment? I've read somewhere that
smalltalk has the best refactoring/debugging tools. Would you agree
with that?
On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:10 PM, adrians nman...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Marcus,
I figured it must be the complexity of fixing the debugger that's keeping it
in the broken state that it is for this long. Mainly I wanted to get a sense
of how important is fixing this relative to the other things
Marcus,
I guess you answered my question regarding priority - i.e. it's not right at
the top. For myself, if I used one tool in everything I did, and it was
broken, fixing it would have to be close to the number one thing to address,
otherwise every job would take longer than it has to. This,
I don't understand how setting a fixed-size stack could ever be
useful. No one would risk blowing up a production app only because
they guessed wrong about the stackDepthLimit, so for production it
would always be set to 0.
I kind of disagree: any system has limits, and most server software
On Dec 11, 2012, at 5:39 PM, adrians nman...@gmail.com wrote:
Marcus,
I guess you answered my question regarding priority - i.e. it's not right at
the top. For myself, if I used one tool in everything I did, and it was
broken, fixing it would have to be close to the number one thing to
Of course not all of what needs to be done in Pharo should be of at same
priority. It makes sense to first fix the tools one uses for fixing
everything else, so that one can speed up one's own work and at the same
time open up the possibility for others (less skilled) to help out.
In any case
Dimitris, thank you for the summary of the RoR video. Base line is to
deal with it.
Interesting to note that with computer languages the same thing
happens as with natural languages. Language use changes. Most people
would have a hard time understanding Middle English these days.
On Dec 11, 2012, at 6:12 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hir...@gmail.com wrote:
Constant input in maintenance effort is needed. So any efforts in
maintaining libraries and maybe compatibility layers are very welcome.
Yes, and how did we ever thought we could invent the future with Squeak
when in
Marcus, maybe you could you elaborate your comment. I do not
understand it. Changing a typo in a comment is not changing the
'computer language'. I assume you speak about the development process.
However both Pharo and Squeak now have a good process.
--Hannes
On 12/11/12, Marcus Denker
On 11 December 2012 18:15, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:
On Dec 11, 2012, at 6:12 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hir...@gmail.com wrote:
Constant input in maintenance effort is needed. So any efforts in
maintaining libraries and maybe compatibility layers are very welcome.
Yes, and how
On 11 December 2012 17:41, Chris Muller ma.chri...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't understand how setting a fixed-size stack could ever be
useful. No one would risk blowing up a production app only because
they guessed wrong about the stackDepthLimit, so for production it
would always be set to 0.
hehe..
it looks like we can do it:
- when memory hits the waterline mark, VM should do the following:
- for every currently scheduled process , push an artificial stack
frame on top , which is
StackOverflow signal.
Then the first thing what this guy should do, when he will get
control, is to
Cool, could you maybe do a proof of concept someday ;-)
On 11 Dec 2012, at 19:26, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
hehe..
it looks like we can do it:
- when memory hits the waterline mark, VM should do the following:
- for every currently scheduled process , push an artificial
Igor Stasenko wrote
I am not very good in metacello-fu to write a confing, which will
select various set of stuff to load
depending on image version.
So, if someone can help, i would appreciate that.
I can move those methods into NB-pharo-1.4 package..
--
Best regards,
Igor
If my goal is to make my computer work for ME, then I want my
development system to maximize my leverage and minimize my effort.
Breaking compatibility for cleaner code subverts this, as Hannes said,
Constant input in maintenance effort is needed.
I want to use my time applying Smalltalk to
2012/12/11 Chris Muller asquea...@gmail.com:
If my goal is to make my computer work for ME, then I want my
development system to maximize my leverage and minimize my effort.
Breaking compatibility for cleaner code subverts this, as Hannes said,
One thing is clear, forking is not anything near
There is definitely the other side of things, that side that says you cant have
an omelet if you don't brake some eggs. I always admire people that go against
the flow , people who are willing to sacrifice convenience for progress.
I do believe in the direction pharo is going , I do believe
BUILD FAILUREBuild URLhttps://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/pharo-2.0-tests/./label_exp=win/499/Project:label_exp=winDate of build:Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:58:54 +0100Build duration:26 secCHANGESNo ChangesCONSOLE OUTPUTStarted by upstream project "pharo-2.0-tests" build number 499originally caused by:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote:
Hi Eliot,
On 11 Dec 2012, at 02:33, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.com wrote:
2012/12/9 Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu
Hi,
Would it be possible to build some kind of protection against stack
overflow ?
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:
hehe..
it looks like we can do it:
- when memory hits the waterline mark, VM should do the following:
- for every currently scheduled process , push an artificial stack
frame on top , which is
StackOverflow
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 2:44 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.euwrote:
Hi Eliot,
On 11 Dec 2012, at 02:33, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.com wrote:
2012/12/9 Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu
Hi,
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Eliot Miranda eliot.mira...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.comwrote:
hehe..
it looks like we can do it:
- when memory hits the waterline mark, VM should do the following:
- for every currently scheduled
quote author=Jacob Wagner
Hello. Is anyone interested in getting lua scripting to work with pharo, using
nativeboost? I do not think it should be very difficult, but it is beyond my
knowledge of c and lua and nativeboost.
The reason I would like this is for possible gaming applications.
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