Pharo is starting to look better and better, but not yet as good as
Newspeak:
http://newspeaklanguage.org/downloads/
Stephan
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.
On Friday, April 24, 2009, Stephan Eggermont step...@stack.nl wrote:
How am I supposed to load Seaside into the latest 10292-dev?
On windows I ?downloaded ?from www.pharo-project.org/download
the vm, sources and dev image.
ScriptLoader loadSeaside29
WAKom startOn:8080
that last one has
Thank you Lukas,
Harvested as Issue 771
Stephan
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On the seaside site, there is an overview I collected with Lukas last
ESUG
http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs
Stephan
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Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs
Is it just me or are the LaTeX samples lacking backslashes?
Thanks for a valuable overview,
You're right, they should have backslashes. Probably a conversion
problem.
Andreas Brodbeck writes about another solution:
Guido Stepken wrote:
LSWVST introduces a new object-type - IsoCollections. Iso-Collections
stores type information of its elements only once.
That's nice, but not enough. Collections with more than a few thousand
elements
should use multiple blocks of memory (e.g. btree) to have acceptable
called in
SmartRefStreamreadInsanceSize:clsname:refPosn:)
Stephan Eggermont
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Transcript show:
[ |buffer rr book stream|
buffer := (ByteString new: 2000).
stream := (RWBinaryOrTextStream on:buffer).
rr := SmartRefStream on: stream.
rr nextPut: (Morph new). need something
Creates a lot of newlines on the mailing list. Sorry about that.
My mail program didn't show the charactres at all.
Stephan
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such a button bar.
The red, orange, and green window buttons used to have a much better
horizontal separation. I am not sure in which update they were put so
close together, but they need at least as much horizontal separation as
the space from left window border to the first (red) button.
Stephan
around with a painting tool and started digging
around
in Toolbuilder, OmniBrowser and PolyMorph. Let me just say that I
really,
really, really like Glamour.
See issue 909
Stephan Eggermont
inline: ButtonBar2.png
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Pharo
, but not for text.
Stephan Eggermont
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Doru wrote:
I would like to collect a list of the solutions to link
Pharo with existing databases. I am interested in
both relational and in object databases.
Something like http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence?
Stephan
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Adrian wrote:
What about using a wiki to gather and edit comments
(as suggested by Stan) and then integrate them in
a second step so that they are kept together with
the code (as suggested by Stef)? Just a thought...
I'd very much prefer an in-image solution and avoid
integrating. In-image
The real life situation with date strings is much worse.
I live in a city (Zoetermeer) where a passport was issued
with the holders birthdate being 00-00-1972.
I'm very much in favor of not trying to be clever in the
core Date classes, and to provide separate guessing logic,
properly
Hello Laurent,
I assume you are aware of:
http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence
Stephan
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mail me.
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Levente wrote:
How bad do they perform? Do you have benchmarks?
With a
coll := OrderedCollection new.
1 to: 1000 do: [:i | coll add: i].
a profile of:
1 to: 100 do: [:i | coll add: i beforeIndex: 10]
here takes 1438 ms. Moving memory gets to be slow.
All operations that start taking
Igor wrote:
Yes. Use right tool for to do job.
An OrderedCollection can't satisfy every possible combination of
tasks, which developer facing.
So, these collections are currently missing. And as all current
code is bound to the current implementations, switching
implementation on size is the
Igor wrote:
If such kind of collections didn't existed over more than
30 years of smalltalk existance, what makes you think
that there a big interest in having them today?
Memory. Without the memory to use them, the need was
not there.
Of course, they could occupy some niche, but i doubt
that
Levente wrote:
Trees are rarely useful in Smalltalk, so there's no
default tree implementation. Note that trees consume
a lot more memory (=5x) than a single array.
Huh? You mean binary trees? Or Red-Black or so?
On current procesors they are not very useful, and
not usable at all for large data
Igor wrote:
What you talking about is an edge case in currently existing systems.
And its easy to prove:
That's not convincing. I'd say you have cause and effect reversed.
I'd not expect there to be large OrderedCollections as long as they
don't behave well.
Stephan
I'd guess the important thing is to explain on the Pharo web site
that bug fixes are in the 1.1 and are not (always) retrofitted to 1.0
Stephan
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I'll be there on Saturday.
Stephan Eggermont
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Germán wrote:
Anyway I personally largely prefer the objects databases :)
But indeed these sort of DBs (as Cassandra)
are being more and more populars, I
think that this is mainly for its HA features.
I tend to run into applications where it makes sense to have
both. The big blobs that do not
Does anyone have suggestions for a good (and cheap) place to stay during
ESUG2010 in Barcelona? The conference is not in the city centre, and the
only hotel which is close by (NH Cornellà) has no places available.
We thought of renting a large appartment somewhere along the metro
line 5
and
Philippe wrote:
Rather than imagining what problems non-users could have I'd focus on
what problems existing users have. Instead of building libraries that
you'll have to maintain forever I'd focus in infrastructure that allows
users to write the libraries they need themselves.
Executive summary:
Gaucho looks like an interesting system. Too bad the monticello versions
don't have comments, making it difficult to track progress. Is there another
way to see what's happening?
Stephan
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Sven wrote:
Sorry: if you switch to the Pro theme
The example basic controls shows the following issues:
- Default button looks smaller because the blue
border is (imperfectly) written over the black outline.
- Selected Disabled Button is unreadable. The contrast
between the gray text and
Hello Doru,
Doru wrote:
Is this for Pro or for Glamorous?
I was refering to:
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/attachments/20100905/21e9b4c2/attachment-0001.png
That makes it for pro. But a lot of the issues are for both.
In Laurents screenshot there are also alignment issues
to maintain them.
In user interfaces, consistency is good,
and I want one good theme,
not ten bad or mediocre.
Stephan Eggermont
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Niko wrote:
I think RFC1855-style messages still look beautiful, and they have
their place. But if you're too lazy to follow the gist of it, that's
alright with me, but then put your content at the top, so I don't have
to scroll down to Walhalla.
The best thing to do is to make the mailing list
Hello,
I'm not happy to see the feed subscribed to this mailing list.
I often have to use the web interface to this list, and the number
of one-line comments and status changes makes for a very
unpleasant reading experience. In addition it makes it more
difficult to find the interesting
Mariano wrote:
Remember that most email client support filters. You can easily create one.
- That doesn't help with the web interface;
- My mail client supports RSS feeds, the added value of a duplicate is low;
- Filtering doesn't work with digests;
- The subject is not good and the content is
Stef wrote in reply to:
On Nov 18, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:
That doesn't help with the web interface;
??
As I said, I often browse
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-November/
But you just get a bad summary from squeak-source I have to click on the link
I would be interested in improvements. This is just a straight translation
of the java code.
Yaroslavskiy's Dual-Pivot Quicksort seems to perform better for large
collections:
A straightforward
defaultSort: i to: j
self dualPivotQuicksort: i to: j split: 3
dualPivotQuicksort: left to:
Would be to have it in a browser in the image.
An early experiment with the current Moose daily build
shows it can be done:
http://www.squeaksource.com/GoogleIssuesFeed
Stephan
Philippe wrote:
On 29.12.2010 11:01, St?phane Ducasse wrote:
We know. I will reask again for our web-dav server.
You're actually working in a big bank, aren't you Stef? I can tell by
the time it takes you to get a web-dav server ;-)
No, in a bank they would have asked him why he needs his own
Nicolas wrote:
Then group the selectors (first, first: etc..), explain that they are
extensions, and don't need a copy prefix, because anyway most messages
will do a copy.
You are aware first doesn't copy, do you? The explanation should be
that you always have to take a look at the implementation
awarded us the
innovation price.
Stephan Eggermont
Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
I read prediction Android may take it all.
There are currently no signs of that. Stephen Elop (of Nokia) allegedly wrote
In 2008, Apple’s market share in the $300+ price range was 25 percent;
by 2010 it escalated to 61 percent. They are enjoying a tremendous growth
Stef wrote:
On Mar 6, 2011, at 8:39 AM, laurent laffont wrote:
Is it planed / possible to have SqueakSSL plugin in official VM shipped with
Pharo ?
What is the license? You know the last time we got trapped into the game oh I
did not decided yet so never again.
What is the status?
On
http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/mlvm-dev/2011-April/002802.html
JSR 292 explicitly talks about become: (calls it hotswap) and is supposed
to make it possible to run Smalltalk efficiently on a jvm.
I don't know how complete the jsr 292 implementation is of mlvm.
I got the link in a tweet. Roos builds modular automated test equipment.
Stephan
Marcus wrote:
The mails from the google tracker now go to this list:
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-bugtracker
in turn, this means the traffic on the pharo-project list should be a bit more
managable.
Thank you.
Stephan
Is the Hudson setup used to generate the Pharo images published?
Last friday there were some issues that were not reproducible with
the standard test-runner.
Stephan
That is no networking problem. That is just how a tcp server connections work.
When you connect from a client to the server, the server has to initialize a new
socket to communicate on. Just take a look at what waitForConnectionFor does.
Stephan
SDFileStoreTests testFindAllSubclasses is broken in the CI Pharo 12353 Seaside
image
of 2011-5-25.
SandstoneDbTests RamonLeon.10
SandstoneDb RamonLeon.138
Stephan Eggermont
Hello Norbert,
That sounds like a silly algorithm. There is no reason you should get a large
stack size as
long as you don't try to do this more than one level deep only:
add object to the table
repeat
find first unwritten object in the table
write its contents:
simple objects direct
releases, they should look
for another place, not for build server.
Since build server are there to build test bleeding-edge (under
development) versions, but not ones which already released and years
old.
Ok, so you simply do not want the builds to be used by others.
That's fine.
Stephan
Stef wrote in response to my:
Ok, so you simply do not want the builds to be used by others.
That's fine.
why do you say that?
Such a build server can have two purposes:
- to directly help with the development of the software named in the build jobs;
- it can provide a starting point for
((para isKindOf: MultiNewParagraph) or: [para text string isByteString
or: [para text string isWideString]])
If you want to be able to handle large texts with nice (LaTeX-like) line
breaking
we'll probably need some different String implementations. I don't know how
... is a waste of time and computing resources. Relational databases are
optimized
for specific usage scenarios. CAD systems and source code management systems
are the archetypical examples of systems that are a bad fit and will kill the
performance
of a relational database. Of course 30 years
november 2011 23:58:43 GMT+01:00
To: Stephan Eggermont step...@stack.nl
Cc: devro...@fosdem.org
Subject: [FOSDEM 2012] Devroom accepted: Smalltalk
Reply-To: devro...@fosdem.org
Hi Stephan
We've got good news, as we have accepted and planned your
request for a developer room at FOSDEM 2012
Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Maybe someone with experience using Smalltalk on a team can answer this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8244502/version-control-for-smalltalk-seaside
Nice question. I've added a mixture of what we do and should be doing...
Stephan
Francois Stephany wrote:
I'm wondering: how big is a dataset 500MB ? I've no idea how big it is.
Alex, what is your use case (in practice!) for more than 500MB?
We are doing data conversion with Moose. Raw data is 740 MB.
No 64-bit means being forced to make decisions early, and therefore
Igor Stasenko wrote:
I think you looking for solution in a wrong direction.
Just ask yourself, how much of that data you need to keep in operative
memory at single moment of time
to efficiently compute results.
All of it. And then of course the annotations and resulting output model.
I know
No, not yet. Do we need a separate one or can we use one of the existing ones?
I'm following a.o. squeak-dev, pharo-dev, seaside
Stephan
On 28 nov 2011, at 12:37, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
Hi all, is there a mailing list or website set up for discussing the program
for the devroom?
Thanks,
Call for Participation in the Smalltalk Devroom at FOSDEM 2012.
A devroom for the Pharo, Squeak, GST, Etoilé,
Seaside, Moose Smalltalk projects. Smalltalk environments
offer a very high development productivity, unmatched by
their successors. Come do some pair programming with us
and
Hi Chris,
Great! I'd love to have someone explain and demo Magma at the FOSDEM2011
devroom (Feb 5, Brussels). You already told me you'd not be available.
Anyone else capable willing to do a presentation?
Stephan
Sven wrote:
Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo
better all the time is the best reference.
While that is a necessity, it is only relevant for a certain public
(technically advanced, developer oriented, long term view).
It is not necessarily something other
There are a number of separate problems here, I think. Mixing them up
makes the situation a bit complex. I'll try separating them here.
At what abstraction level should the basic tools be build. From my point
of view, Glamour provides the right level. It is very easy to build browsers
and it is
the different
dialects. I would have liked to have more time for discussions.
A lunch break might be a good idea.
And finally a remark for next years devroom manager: don't expect
to see much from FOSDEM :)
Stephan Eggermont
label inside the box (or a looking glass);
- the toolbar items are context sensitive but don't grey out when not
applicable;
- the toolbar icons are not distinctive enough
Stephan Eggermont
Fernando wrote:
I would like to hear your opinion on the benefits of such interfaces,
besides the fact that mainstream IDE's adopted it, it's not that i
don't like Eclipse , is more that i'm aware that several difficulties
have been found with these type of interfaces.
On a large screen, I find
;
- the availability of frameworks such as MOOSE and Seaside and the
good compatibility with Gemstone allows us to provide
better solutions faster.
Stephan Eggermont
Sensus, systems that make sense
After a discussion with Esteban, Nick challenged me to submit a proposal.
An alternative would be to start from Glamour instead of from Magritte 3.
Proposal: Extend Magritte 3 to create Naked Objects style interfaces
Level: Intermediate
Possible mentor: Stephan Eggermont
Possible second mentor
A good document, Stef.
The current focus of the documents is on developers.
It might make sense to add something for the (corporate)
users of Pharo-based software.
Stephan
Hello Alain,
Are there links to the articles, instead of a paywall?
Stephan
Stephan, I can help as second Mentor if you still need one.
...Stan
I haven't been able to reach Esteban yet.
He is supposed to be moving this week.
Thanks for the offer.
Stephan
On 2 apr 2012, at 19:41, Dennis Schetinin wrote:
The original idea is to build a two-tier Human-Machine Interface (HMI) system
(which can be used in a wide range of projects) with Pharo image as back-end
(where a model lives) and Amber-based client as a front-end. But this thing
seems to
to declaratively
describe
your domain. Then generate LaTeX pictures from this for the paper trail.
Stephan Eggermont
Hi Olivier,
I've taken a look at the state of Artefact. Don't you think it would be much
less work
to port Christian Haider's work to Pharo? The namespace extensions to ring
should
be helpful to make two-way changes from both the VW and Pharo side.
Stephan Eggermont
Why do we have so many ways to create pdfs, and why do most
libraries/frameworks only provide a partial solution?
At first it seems not to difficult to build something for what I need,
so it makes sense to build it myself. But the pdf spec is large,
and I don't use most of it. Building it
Philippe wrote:
On 05/05/2012 10:04 AM, Milan Mimica wrote:
What are you feelings about dependency injection?
Oh oh, you brought up the topic. We have about six different ways in
Seaside how we look up implementation classes. Anything from writing
them to a class variable to iterating over
Hi,
Hmm. I'm a bit late to make a hotel reservation. Most hotels seem to be
booked out. Anyone know an alternative? I'm arriving by train on wednesday.
Couch would do.
Stephan Eggermont
Damien wrote:
Try this one:
Hotel ibis Lille Opéra
21 Rue Lepelletier, 59000 Lille, France
+33 3 20 06 21 95
Thank you.
I already did. No space.
Stephan
Hi Stef,
Thanks. The Formule 1 still had a room (others didn't).
What's the place to meet on wednesday evening
for a beer talk? I'll arrive 21.00 or so.
Stephan
I'm arriving wednesday evening about 21.00 hr. Anyone up for beer talk?
Stephan
I've checked my train ticket. I'll arrive at train station Lille-Europe at
19.52.
I assume it has an info-point or so?
Stephan
Marcus wrote:
On May 22, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
otherwise a good meeting point is in front of the old trainstation Lille
Flandres (about 200m / 1 metro stop from Lille Europe)
Yes, in front of the main entrance of Lille Flanders is a good meeting spot.
Ok. 20.00 I'll be at
be in the works if we can run it somewhere.
It was only after the mondrian exercise that participants could start playing
with the data on their own. Participants indicated they associatied mondrian
more with visualization than glamour.
Stephan Eggermont Willem van den Ende
Dave wrote:
Please try the 64bitImage*64bitVM image from John's site here:
ftp://ftp.smalltalkconsulting.com/experimental/64bit/
Loads and runs on my 10.7.3 MBA.
If you can run that VM on your Mac, it should do exactly what you need.
Try running that VM with one of your images. If it runs and
Guile wrote:
Yeap, but it I'd not call it an update :). It is more a complete refactor
to make it more understandable to newbies like me.
Anyway, I didn't migrate the code to write 64bit image,
and I'm not planning to do it in the short term...
If you want to take a look, the project is in
Doru wrote
I think an option would only add to the confusion. Please replace the
option with one decision. If some do not like it, they can shout and
the designer can take the input into account. But, it's the designer
that decides.
+1
Stephan
Camillo wrote:
So you're saying modifiable keyboard shortcuts are a bad design?
Yes.
That is to say, using them outside of developing a good set of
key bindings (possibly for each language/keyboard). We need them
to get to this consistent set. Options could be on the level of
vi/wordstar/emacs
Hi Hilaire,
There was a post from Scott Sproule on using Amazon SES with zinc and stunnel.
Sven, you remember? From the response it was not clear to me if he managed
to get everything working, and the need for stunnel might not be there with the
current SSL support. SES is about 10% of the cost
Camillo wrote:
I did a quick nautilus improvement:
https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6667
CAVEAT: One thing I did was not showing all methods when opening the browser
on a class.
For me this makes perfectly sense since I use the CMD-F + CMD-M shortcut
for
Hi
I noticed the default SqueakMaxHeapSize on CI for Mac is 536870912 bytes.
Is there a specific reason for the default to be so low? I know there used to be
problems with the windows vm.
Stephan
Hi Pavel
iMac 27 11.1, 10.6.8 works fine. Resizing the pharo window gives a screen with
garbage and then mostly
removes the pharo window. XUL stays up, but no longer switches views.
Stephan
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1496788/building-for-10-5-in-xcode-3-2-on-snow-leopard-error
Hannes wrote:
Some people however do not mind to do mappings from one data format to
another.
That is right, and I prefer to keep my meditation separate from my programming.
Stephan Eggermont
I noticed the SmallPOS on ss3 is under MIT license. AFAIK, it was GPLv3.
When did this relicensing happen?
Stephan
Igor wrote:
Anyways, UI stuff is tend to be complex no matter how nicely you wrap
it.. because it is UI.
I'd have to disagree there. Building UIs with Glamour is easy. I'd say Spec is
simply
at too low an abstraction level for most UI work. We might need a different
abstraction
for different
Stef wrote:
bitShift:
look at the tests
((1 bitShift: 100) bitShift: -100) = 1
For even better understanding, add
((1 bitShift: -100) bitShift: 100) = 0
Stephan
The VW5PackageExporter allows the exporting of a package to the VW xml based
fileout format.
I've adapted the code to be less Seaside-specific, and am now able to export
one package (Parasol-Core).
If I try to export another package (Parasol-Tests), which depends on the
earlier one, it fails to
I was added as developer to PackageInfo 2 weeks ago, but am no longer
able to commit...
Stephan
Camillo wrote:
curl http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/ciPharo20NBCog.sh | bash
./vm.sh Pharo.image config http://squeaksource.com/Athens
ConfigurationOfAthens --install=1.4
Camillo wrote:
indeed just reproduced it.
I guess I'll have to add a special OSX case.
mv vm vm.app
that should fix it when running from the UI.
That fixes the start on drop-ability all right, but doesn't help with
finding Cairo
Stephan
Hilaire wrote:
Is there anyway to implement fileshareing with Dropbox or GoogleDrive on
a Pharo client application?
I can see some use cases for a globally persistent peer-to-peer based system.
Sort of a distributed github. Centralized systems tend to bring all kinds of
nasty spam and privacy
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