Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
Al, Why would Edison have removed the 4-minute gearing from the Standard “D” just for ICS? Why wouldn’t ICS want 4-minute capability? I cannot imagine any business buying near-obsolete technology. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
“Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct?” Of course you are correct! Serial number: 820852 What made you think it would be above 79? Have you seen or heard of other 2/4 minute D ICS Standards? Steve, the machine only came with the H reproducer (sn #A679790), recording tube and horn. No recorder of “C” reproducer. Regards, Scott ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
Did these ship in the ICS config from the Edison factory, or were the repeater bits and ID tags added by others? If the latter, the s/n would just be part of the normal sequence, right? If the ICS people bought them in bulk there might be blocks of s/n's that are all ICS... Hmmm. Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Jan 24, 2012, at 10:00 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct? That is a clean original horn also. That was a great machine to start your collection. Regards, Al -Original Message- From: Scott Colgrove scott.colgr...@gmail.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 8:47 am Subject: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Hi Steve and Al, I’ve seen an ICS Standard D...it’s in my hallway! http://www.montanaphonograph.com/gallery/EdStdD.html This was the beast that caused my phono-collecting disease. It was the first ylinder player I ever saw and the first purchased. Regards, cott __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
I do not know if Edison sent the Phonographs to ICS in Scranton where they added the tag. I do know that ICS did ship things, ICS had their own wooden box they put the recorder in to protect it in shipment, I think. I have or had an original packing box where two blanks had been mailed from ICS. Edison may have assigned serial numbers to ICS. Edison made the model B C and D phonographs all at the same time so you see variety. The N reproducer first came out around serial number 22,000 below you will see the Model E was out by the 790,000 range so it looks like Edison made the ICS D after the E came out. You see a large number of ICS C standards. Edison never wasted so it seems to me when the D came out and there was little demand for the Standard C Edison sold them to ICS. The ICS Gems were two minute only, so I believe the four minute ICS blue amberols came out in 1915 when the ICS amberola 30 was introduced. The ICS H was made in 1915 and later so the top is pot metal and says TAE Inc on it. They have their own serial numbers. From the examples I have seen the first ones have the serial number around the sound tube, A5083 is an example of this. The early B series B1708 and B1717 have the serial number by the lettering as does 4775. The later B series have stable pot metal and number like B2243 and B3123 around the sound tube. The weight is blank and the limit loop is much wider than the H. It weighs .8 of an ounce, the same as the early automatic weight. It was made to play records that were recorded with the 4 minute recorder as well as the ICS language records. The weight uses a pin to hold the stylus bar in place. On these the pin moves in the shoulders and is lightly press fitted into the hole in the stylus bar. 4775 with the serial number by the letters appears to be in good shape and is for sale on eBay now so it appears there was the regular no letter serial number which I assume came first. The small tops aside from the ICS H shared serial numbers so you can have an idea of when a reproducer was made, but Edison used parts when he found them so you can have a later phonograph or reproducer with earlier parts. Because there are no definite cut offs Edison is more interesting, but harder to figure out. The ICS 30 was sold with a four minute recorder and the special ICS H with the special reducer ring. If the purchaser was interested he could buy a diamond C reproducer for the machine. If anyone has a Standard E with a reproducer in the 20,000's I would be interested in the serial numbers. Round weight N 33030 is on Standard E 795363 Round weight N 36087 on Standard E 794228 Trowel N 46911 on Standard E 800257 Trowel N 46795 on Standard E 803033 Trowel N 47875 on Standard E 800786 Trowel N 49430 on Standard E 804395 From: pjfra...@mac.com Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:43:12 -0800 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Did these ship in the ICS config from the Edison factory, or were the repeater bits and ID tags added by others? If the latter, the s/n would just be part of the normal sequence, right? If the ICS people bought them in bulk there might be blocks of s/n's that are all ICS... Hmmm. Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Jan 24, 2012, at 10:00 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct? That is a clean original horn also. That was a great machine to start your collection. Regards, Al -Original Message- From: Scott Colgrove scott.colgr...@gmail.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 8:47 am Subject: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Hi Steve and Al, I’ve seen an ICS Standard D...it’s in my hallway! http://www.montanaphonograph.com/gallery/EdStdD.html This was the beast that caused my phono-collecting disease. It was the first ylinder player I ever saw and the first purchased. Regards, cott __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
“Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct?” Of course you are correct! Serial number: 820852 What made you think it would be above 79? Have you seen or heard of other 2/4 minute D ICS Standards? THAT IS BECAUSE AL KNOWS HIS EDISON PHONOGRAPHS BETTER THAN I KNOW MY REPRODUCERS. Steve, the machine only came with the H reproducer (sn #A679790), recording tube and horn. No recorder or “C” reproducer. Regards, Scott SCOTT, THANKS, THE H REPRODUCER WAS FROM AFTER JULY 1909 AS THE FIRST K WAS AROUND A582,000. IT APPEARS EDISON ASSIGNED SERIAL NUMBER BLOCKS TO THE SMALL TOP REPRODUCERS AS SOME D MACHINES HAVE A SPREAD ON THE C AND H REPRODUCERS. I APPRECIATE KNOWING THE MACHINE PLAYS IN 4 MINUTE, IT APPEARS IT WAS USED FOR ENTERTAINMENT CYLINDERS. EDISON HAS SO MUCH VARIETY, ONE OF THE TRIUMPH MODEL G'S THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 4 MINUTE ONLY PLAYS IN BOTH. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LEARN ABOUT EDISON THERE IS ALWAYS MORE. STEVE M ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
I APPRECIATE KNOWING THE MACHINE PLAYS IN 4 MINUTE, IT APPEARS IT WAS USED FOR ENTERTAINMENT CYLINDERS. I meant to say after being used for the ICS lessons it appeared the owner used it for four minute records. It is nice to see the history of the machine by what is found with it. Thanks for sharing your machine with us, this is the only one I have ever seen. Steve From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:19:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C “Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct?” Of course you are correct! Serial number: 820852 What made you think it would be above 79? Have you seen or heard of other 2/4 minute D ICS Standards? THAT IS BECAUSE AL KNOWS HIS EDISON PHONOGRAPHS BETTER THAN I KNOW MY REPRODUCERS. Steve, the machine only came with the H reproducer (sn #A679790), recording tube and horn. No recorder or “C” reproducer. Regards, Scott SCOTT, THANKS, THE H REPRODUCER WAS FROM AFTER JULY 1909 AS THE FIRST K WAS AROUND A582,000. IT APPEARS EDISON ASSIGNED SERIAL NUMBER BLOCKS TO THE SMALL TOP REPRODUCERS AS SOME D MACHINES HAVE A SPREAD ON THE C AND H REPRODUCERS. I APPRECIATE KNOWING THE MACHINE PLAYS IN 4 MINUTE, IT APPEARS IT WAS USED FOR ENTERTAINMENT CYLINDERS. EDISON HAS SO MUCH VARIETY, ONE OF THE TRIUMPH MODEL G'S THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 4 MINUTE ONLY PLAYS IN BOTH. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LEARN ABOUT EDISON THERE IS ALWAYS MORE. STEVE M ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
I have a lot of data on Edison's that I didn't have when George and I did the first cylinder phonographs book. Now I have a ton of data showing things that happened affecting production nuances. The Edison Standards ended production with a serial just above 82. Virtually all of the last machines are ICS tagged and equipped D Models that have no 4 minute gears. On rare occasions a Model E Standard will be seen with the E X'd out and a C stamped in, again it is only a 2 minute player. These machines do appear in blocks of serials. I feel these were done at the Edison factory since the machines were sent out with only 2 minute capability so as not to compete with Edison's normal product line. Whenever I see an ICS late production machine labeled C or D that plays 4 minute records my suspicions are raised that someone has transplanted the gears. That is the problem with Edison machines having so many interchangeable parts going through so many hands for the last 100 years. I know of two California repair persons who 'brought them up to date' with dual speed gears, Pollard and Frick. This was in the 1950s and 1960s. The ICS machines usually were in pristine shape with very little usage and the donor machines were D or F junkers. I just thought of a third California dealer who did that too... The Edison Wrecking Yard, a.k.a. Neumann Miller. The Triumph Model G had both gear sets for 2 and 4 minute operation but had an easily removal shim washer that locked the planetary out into the 4 minute position. One must remember that the Model G Triumph production numbers are very likely less than 100 machines and the serials are intermixed with the Model F. Therefore, could a Model F have been mislabeled and sent out, with Edison that is a safe bet ! ! ! As production ended even the Triumph machines were not given the close scrutiny of earlier times. Regards, Al -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:38 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 9. Am I correct?” f course you are correct! Serial number: 820852 hat made you think it would be above 79? Have you seen or heard of other /4 minute D ICS Standards? THAT IS BECAUSE AL KNOWS HIS EDISON PHONOGRAPHS ETTER THAN I KNOW MY REPRODUCERS. teve, the machine only came with the H reproducer (sn #A679790), recording tube nd horn. No recorder or “C” reproducer. egards, cott SCOTT, THANKS, HE H REPRODUCER WAS FROM AFTER JULY 1909 AS THE FIRST K WAS AROUND A582,000. T APPEARS EDISON ASSIGNED SERIAL NUMBER BLOCKS TO THE SMALL TOP REPRODUCERS AS OME D MACHINES HAVE A SPREAD ON THE C AND H REPRODUCERS. I APPRECIATE KNOWING HE MACHINE PLAYS IN 4 MINUTE, IT APPEARS IT WAS USED FOR ENTERTAINMENT YLINDERS. EDISON HAS SO MUCH VARIETY, ONE OF THE TRIUMPH MODEL G'S THAT WAS UPPOSED TO BE 4 MINUTE ONLY PLAYS IN BOTH. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LEARN ABOUT DISON THERE IS ALWAYS MORE. STEVE M __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
A Model F mislabeled and sent out, with Edison that is a safe bet ! ! ! Hello Al, Edison mistakes are very interesting. I have seen a Standard Model E with a combination ID plate, they used a D ID plate, it is stamped E with the serial number of the Standard E 794424 and the reproducer is N 36793. This standard E is four minute only. The machine that is most interesting is a Standard D that came with the painted pin striping in a Model B case. The serial number is 624172 without a D at the end. It looks just like a B except for the D gearing and no endgate. I have seen photos of a Gem D with the old GEM decal on the front of the machine. Bob told me he saw a raised panel triumph that the raised panel was not parallel to the wood bedplate, it was crooked. Thanks for your info. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:57:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C I have a lot of data on Edison's that I didn't have when George and I did the first cylinder phonographs book. Now I have a ton of data showing things that happened affecting production nuances. The Edison Standards ended production with a serial just above 82. Virtually all of the last machines are ICS tagged and equipped D Models that have no 4 minute gears. On rare occasions a Model E Standard will be seen with the E X'd out and a C stamped in, again it is only a 2 minute player. These machines do appear in blocks of serials. I feel these were done at the Edison factory since the machines were sent out with only 2 minute capability so as not to compete with Edison's normal product line. Whenever I see an ICS late production machine labeled C or D that plays 4 minute records my suspicions are raised that someone has transplanted the gears. That is the problem with Edison machines having so many interchangeable parts going through so many hands for the last 100 years. I know of two California repair persons who 'brought them up to date' with dual speed gears, Pollard and Frick. This was in the 1950s and 1960s. The ICS machines usually were in pristine shape with very little usage and the donor machines were D or F junkers. I just thought of a third California dealer who did that too... The Edison Wrecking Yard, a.k.a. Neumann Miller. The Triumph Model G had both gear sets for 2 and 4 minute operation but had an easily removal shim washer that locked the planetary out into the 4 minute position. One must remember that the Model G Triumph production numbers are very likely less than 100 machines and the serials are intermixed with the Model F. Therefore, could a Model F have been mislabeled and sent out, with Edison that is a safe bet ! ! ! As production ended even the Triumph machines were not given the close scrutiny of earlier times. Regards, Al -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:38 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 9. Am I correct?” f course you are correct! Serial number: 820852 hat made you think it would be above 79? Have you seen or heard of other /4 minute D ICS Standards? THAT IS BECAUSE AL KNOWS HIS EDISON PHONOGRAPHS ETTER THAN I KNOW MY REPRODUCERS. teve, the machine only came with the H reproducer (sn #A679790), recording tube nd horn. No recorder or “C” reproducer. egards, cott SCOTT, THANKS, HE H REPRODUCER WAS FROM AFTER JULY 1909 AS THE FIRST K WAS AROUND A582,000. T APPEARS EDISON ASSIGNED SERIAL NUMBER BLOCKS TO THE SMALL TOP REPRODUCERS AS OME D MACHINES HAVE A SPREAD ON THE C AND H REPRODUCERS. I APPRECIATE KNOWING HE MACHINE PLAYS IN 4 MINUTE, IT APPEARS IT WAS USED FOR ENTERTAINMENT YLINDERS. EDISON HAS SO MUCH VARIETY, ONE OF THE TRIUMPH MODEL G'S THAT WAS UPPOSED TO BE 4 MINUTE ONLY PLAYS IN BOTH. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LEARN ABOUT DISON THERE IS ALWAYS MORE. STEVE M __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above 79. Am I correct? That is a clean original horn also. That was a great machine to start your collection. Regards, Al -Original Message- From: Scott Colgrove scott.colgr...@gmail.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 8:47 am Subject: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Hi Steve and Al, I’ve seen an ICS Standard D...it’s in my hallway! http://www.montanaphonograph.com/gallery/EdStdD.html This was the beast that caused my phono-collecting disease. It was the first ylinder player I ever saw and the first purchased. Regards, cott __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
Hello Al, I have never seen the ICS D so I am thrilled with your info, thanks again. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:45:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C Hi Steve: Yes, toward the very end of the Standard machines Edison made ICS Model Ds that were missing the 4 minute gears and had the speed control knob on top the bedplate. Some had the D X'd out with a C stamped in but most were just left with the D letter in the Model box on the patent plate. Price ranges on eBay for ICS Cs have been from $250 to $550 over the last few years. One or two machines did sell in the $700 to $800 range in earlier golden years with hearing tubes, some ICS records, and recorders with blanks. Hope that helps, Al Edison fanatic... -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm Subject: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C http://www.ebay.com/itm/200702897452 Has anyone seen an ICS standard D? Steve ___ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200702897452 Has anyone seen an ICS standard D? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C
Hi Steve: Yes, toward the very end of the Standard machines Edison made ICS Model Ds that were missing the 4 minute gears and had the speed control knob on top the bedplate. Some had the D X'd out with a C stamped in but most were just left with the D letter in the Model box on the patent plate. Price ranges on eBay for ICS Cs have been from $250 to $550 over the last few years. One or two machines did sell in the $700 to $800 range in earlier golden years with hearing tubes, some ICS records, and recorders with blanks. Hope that helps, Al Edison fanatic... -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm Subject: [Phono-L] What is the price range for the ICS Standard C http://www.ebay.com/itm/200702897452 Has anyone seen an ICS standard D? Steve ___ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
