On 20/10/2011 01:18, Nathan nat...@webr3.org wrote:
Dave Reynolds wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is that developers start from the NIR but then
use web browsers to find their way round the data and then cut paste the
browser locations they find, thus ending up with IRs where they should
On 20/10/2011 00:35, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
On 18 Oct 2011, at 14:49, Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 18/10/2011 11:30, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
snip
So can I infer from this?:
In a world where I only have one of animals (1) and (2) (despite this
Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 20/10/2011 01:18, Nathan nat...@webr3.org wrote:
Dave Reynolds wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is that developers start from the NIR but then
use web browsers to find their way round the data and then cut paste the
browser locations they find, thus ending up
On 10/20/11 5:34 AM, Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 20/10/2011 01:18, Nathannat...@webr3.org wrote:
Dave Reynolds wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is that developers start from the NIR but then
use web browsers to find their way round the data and then cut paste the
browser locations they
On 10/18/11 1:49 PM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really don't get what you're saying.
I believe the your quests was about a case for 303's. Which is basically
another way of seeking a case for slash terminated URIs re. Linked Data
deployment.
Not exactly
On 18/10/2011 11:30, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
Hi.
On 18 Oct 2011, at 10:57, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Bernard
Glad to hear I¹m finally making sense to someone... :-/
I think I might be still with you ;-)
And finding the discussion very helpful - thanks.
And I'm
what is this IE6 that you talk about ?
:)
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 10/18/11 1:49 PM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult, I just really don't get what you're
saying.
I believe the your quests was about a case for
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 10/19/11 8:49 AM, Paul Wilton wrote:
what is this IE6 that you talk about ?
:)
Internet Explorer 6. The browser that still dominates market share across WWW
end-users :-)
...with less than 5% market share as of last March [1].
On 10/19/11 10:14 AM, David Wood wrote:
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 10/19/11 8:49 AM, Paul Wilton wrote:
what is this IE6 that you talk about ?
:)
Internet Explorer 6. The browser that still dominates market share across WWW
end-users :-)
...with less than 5%
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:40, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
We don't believe is forcing issues on end-users by disrupting them via
actions such as: implementing a Linked Data URI style for something like
DBpedia that works modulo IE 6.
I respect your position, but I do :)
Regards,
Dave
David Wood wrote:
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:40, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
We don't believe is forcing issues on end-users by disrupting them via actions such as: implementing a Linked Data URI style for something like DBpedia that works modulo IE 6.
I respect your position, but I do :)
Under what
On 19 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 10/19/11 10:14 AM, David Wood wrote:
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 10/19/11 8:49 AM, Paul Wilton wrote:
what is this IE6 that you talk about ?
:)
Internet Explorer 6. The browser that still
On 18 Oct 2011, at 14:49, Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 18/10/2011 11:30, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
snip
So can I infer from this?:
In a world where I only have one of animals (1) and (2) (despite this
possibly
or definitely in your view being the wrong way to do it),
Dave Reynolds wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is that developers start from the NIR but then
use web browsers to find their way round the data and then cut paste the
browser locations they find, thus ending up with IRs where they should
have had NIRs.
Agree, you put that very nicely Dave.
On 10/19/11 6:50 PM, Tom Scott wrote:
On 19 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Kingsley Idehenkide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 10/19/11 10:14 AM, David Wood wrote:
On Oct 19, 2011, at 10:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 10/19/11 8:49 AM, Paul Wilton wrote:
what is this IE6 that you talk about ?
:)
Hi Bernard
Glad to hear I¹m finally making sense to someone... :-/
What you said. Only additions would be:
The first URI is used in RDF descriptions of the thing, that I get for example
at http://example.org/resource/foo.rdf
For completeness: and / or in rdfa at
Hi.
On 18 Oct 2011, at 10:57, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Bernard
Glad to hear I’m finally making sense to someone... :-/
I think I might be still with you ;-)
And finding the discussion very helpful - thanks.
And I'm not disagreeing - I have lots of concerns about how we do things, as we
Hi Michael,
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 10:57 +0100, Michael Smethurst wrote:
All of the problems mentioned in this thread could be solved with the
addition of a *generic* information resource URI that does the conneg
separately from the 303. Target the *generic* information resource in
your links
: Re: Address Bar URI
References: e338f3e7-c131-471a-ad5d-5b3882361...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
EMEW3|36eea0fa457b931f9e7cd84ba7ed0101n9DD8902hg|ecs.soton.ac.uk|e338f3e7-c131-471a-ad5d-5b3882361...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
ddd289a9-060d-498a-9f83-68541b8dd...@astro.gla.ac.uk
3ec98aa0-13d5-4f49-b953-e00e945c4
Can someone remind me why people are using 303 at all, as opposed to
hash URIs in the #_ or #it pattern?
I've been trying to make a compelling case for 303 over hash, without
much success.
What would be most valuable is war stories, especially ones that
answer questions that have been left
On 18/10/2011 11:30, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
Hi.
On 18 Oct 2011, at 10:57, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Bernard
Glad to hear I¹m finally making sense to someone... :-/
I think I might be still with you ;-)
And finding the discussion very helpful - thanks.
And I'm
On 18/10/2011 12:26, Dave Reynolds dave.e.reyno...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Michael,
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 10:57 +0100, Michael Smethurst wrote:
All of the problems mentioned in this thread could be solved with the
addition of a *generic* information resource URI that does the conneg
On 18 Oct 2011, at 15:16, Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 18/10/2011 12:26, Dave Reynolds dave.e.reyno...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Michael,
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 10:57 +0100, Michael Smethurst wrote:
All of the problems mentioned in this thread could be solved with the
addition of a
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 15:16 +0100, Michael Smethurst wrote:
On 18/10/2011 12:26, Dave Reynolds dave.e.reyno...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Michael,
On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 10:57 +0100, Michael Smethurst wrote:
All of the problems mentioned in this thread could be solved with the
Wow, this is new information for me that the redirect-to-hash issue
would bear on this question, so this is interesting.
However I must be dense since I don't see how it applies. The scenario
I'm talking about is: I want an RDF URI for something. I mint a URI
A#it, publish a document at A
On 10/18/11 11:20 AM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
Wow, this is new information for me that the redirect-to-hash issue
would bear on this question, so this is interesting.
However I must be dense since I don't see how it applies. The scenario
I'm talking about is: I want an RDF URI for something. I
but that programme has nothing to say about teddy bears and train
sets
-Original Message-
From: public-lod-requ...@w3.org on behalf of Jonathan Rees
Sent: Tue 10/18/2011 4:20 PM
To: Kingsley Idehen
Cc: public-lod@w3.org
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
Wow, this is new information for me that the redirect
On 10/18/11 10:56 AM, Dave Reynolds wrote:
But if we do want linked data to be adopted more generally and not confined
to the lab then we do need publishing guidelines that work fornormal
sites andnormal users. I think that means following the patterns of
data.gov.uk and the rest is
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Michael Smethurst
michael.smethu...@bbc.co.uk wrote:
I don't seem to be doing a such good job at lurking but I'd thought the
current argument against fragment ids was you always get a 200 (so long as
the information resource they hang off exists). So:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 10/18/11 11:20 AM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
Wow, this is new information for me that the redirect-to-hash issue
would bear on this question, so this is interesting.
However I must be dense since I don't see how it
(which is)
see mails passim :-)
-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Rees [mailto:j...@creativecommons.org]
Sent: Tue 10/18/2011 6:27 PM
To: Michael Smethurst
Cc: Kingsley Idehen; public-lod@w3.org
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Michael Smethurst
michael.smethu
On 10/18/11 1:49 PM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
On 10/18/11 11:20 AM, Jonathan Rees wrote:
Wow, this is new information for me that the redirect-to-hash issue
would bear on this question, so this is interesting.
Hi Jonathan,
It is not my understanding that Linked Data regards Hash URIs as a Bad Thing.
On the contrary - they have been an accepted way of doing things for a while:
http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/#choosing
and now
http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc14
both present them as alternatives,
dimension :-)
My 2p
Michael
-Original Message-
From: public-lod-requ...@w3.org on behalf of Kingsley Idehen
Sent: Sun 10/16/2011 2:41 PM
To: public-lod@w3.org
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
On 10/16/11 8:50 AM, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Hugh
Apologies for top post; blame webmail
/2011 12:50 PM
To: public-lod@w3.org
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
On 10/17/11 1:48 AM, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Kingsley
I've heard you make this argument several times in the past. But I
don't understand why. How does it benefit publishers to expose the
representation address?
I am
[mailto:h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
Sent: Sat 10/15/2011 2:43 PM
To: Michael Smethurst
Cc: Norman Gray; Linking Open Data; Don Cruickshank
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
Thanks Michael.
Very helpful to bring in the SEO perspective, even on a Friday evening.
On 14 Oct 2011, at 21:28, Michael Smethurst wrote
matter itself :-)
[SNIP]
Michael
Kingsley
-Original Message-
From: Hugh Glaser [mailto:h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
Sent: Sat 10/15/2011 2:43 PM
To: Michael Smethurst
Cc: Norman Gray; Linking Open Data; Don Cruickshank
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
Thanks Michael.
Very helpful to bring
: public-lod-requ...@w3.org on behalf of Kingsley Idehen
Sent: Sun 10/16/2011 2:41 PM
To: public-lod@w3.org
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
On 10/16/11 8:50 AM, Michael Smethurst wrote:
Hi Hugh
Apologies for top post; blame webmail :-/
(Using labels as they appear in my head; feel free to translate
me2c
if you can rewrite http://yourserver/page so that it shows as
http://yourpage/resource when page was the result of a redirect that
would indeed finllay resolve the completely unacceptable situations
where users are force to understand (and see in their browser bars)
the distinction.
: Address Bar URI
I am really no expert - really, so showing my ignorance here.
I understand:
JS:
window.history.replaceState('Object', 'Title', '/another-new-url');
will do it happily, but I guess HTML5 is required.
You can use it to change path and search strings, but not protocol
On Oct 14, 2011, at 18:22, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
...
I posted a while back (a year or so) that in retrospect, when introducing
DBpedia the flow *should* have been:
1. http://dbpedia.org/page/Linked_Data -- a bookmark friendly and familiar
address (URL) of an HTML based resource that
On 10/15/11 11:40 AM, David Wood wrote:
On Oct 14, 2011, at 18:22, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
...
I posted a while back (a year or so) that in retrospect, when
introducing DBpedia the flow *should* have been:
1. http://dbpedia.org/page/Linked_Data -- a bookmark friendly and
familiar address
On 10/15/11 12:09 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
To my mind, conneg was and is the best solution to this problem.
To my mind, I've never said or implied anything contrary.
HTTP's ability to let user agents and servers negotiate data
representation its most powerful features.
Typo fix re.
Hi.
My colleague, Don Cruickshank asked me if it was good practice to rewrite the
URI in the Address Bar to be the NIR, rather than the IR.
I was surprised, but he tells me that it is permitted in HTML5.
My response was Er, yes, sounds great!
Finally we can get away from having to explain to
On 10/14/11 8:08 AM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
Hi.
My colleague, Don Cruickshank asked me if it was good practice to rewrite the
URI in the Address Bar to be the NIR, rather than the IR.
I was surprised, but he tells me that it is permitted in HTML5.
My response was Er, yes, sounds great!
Finally we
Hi Kingsley,
I've asked this in private and it didn't move toward resolving the issue, so I
will publicly support those who get tired of this behavior. Just why *do* you
feel that flaming colleagues in public is good practice? What do you hope to
achieve by it?
Sure, we all occasionally
On 10/14/11 10:16 AM, David Wood wrote:
Hi Kingsley,
I've asked this in private and it didn't move toward resolving the issue, so I
will publicly support those who get tired of this behavior. Just why *do* you
feel that flaming colleagues in public is good practice? What do you hope to
Excellent, hopefully that is out of the way.
Does anyone want to express an opinion on the original question, which boils
down to:
Is there a problem if going to URI http://www.myexperiment.org/workflows/158
(say, by clicking) in a browser then shows
http://www.myexperiment.org/workflows/158
Hugh, greetings.
On 2011 Oct 14, at 13:08, Hugh Glaser wrote:
My colleague, Don Cruickshank asked me if it was good practice to rewrite the
URI in the Address Bar to be the NIR, rather than the IR.
I was surprised, but he tells me that it is permitted in HTML5.
Can you expand on this a
Hi Hugh,
I like what you are saying and agree that this approach would be a real boon to
the LOD community. Practical problems with using it are likely to be with
subtleties of browser implementation.
For example, Firefox resets all headers on redirect, including the Accept:
header which
On 10/14/11 10:26 AM, Norman Gray wrote:
Hugh, greetings.
On 2011 Oct 14, at 13:08, Hugh Glaser wrote:
My colleague, Don Cruickshank asked me if it was good practice to rewrite the
URI in the Address Bar to be the NIR, rather than the IR.
I was surprised, but he tells me that it is permitted
Thanks.
I have just tried it on my mac with
Firefox, Chrome, Safair, Flock and Opera.
All seem to do it fine, although obviously I am running the latest versions.
Ian Millard has modded rkbexplorer.com, so you can try:
http://southampton.rkbexplorer.com/id/person-04860
It goes to
On 14 Oct 2011, at 16:16, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
Now when Hugh simply states URI and quibbles about the effects of URI
indirection.
I consider your accusation that I am quibbling deeply insulting in the
context of a professional discussion, and entirely inappropriate on a w3c
mailing
Hi Hugh,
Sorry, I think we are talking about different ways of accomplishing the same
thing. You seem to be suggesting that the user's browser rewrite the URL in
the address bar to match the URI you want to see. This is completely
client-side approach. As you said, you can do that if you
Thanks, yes.
It is client side JS, not a complicated server-side.
It won't work for the purposes I describe if the Linked Data publisher has
chosen (or had to) have the document on a different domain, but for all the
cases I can quickly think of it does.
Of course it won't work if
On 10/14/11 11:36 AM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
On 14 Oct 2011, at 16:16, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
Now when Hugh simply states URI and quibbles about the effects of URI
indirection.
I consider your accusation that I am quibbling deeply insulting in the
context of a professional discussion, and
Thanks Rob.
I agree.
However, in some sense we may now have the way to climb just a bit out of the
mess we have got ourselves into (Get out of jail free card springs to mind!).
So if I am a publisher who is doing the httpRange-14 thingy (as I am), do you
think doing the client-side address bar
On 10/14/11 2:14 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
Thanks Rob.
I agree.
However, in some sense we may now have the way to climb just a bit out of the mess we
have got ourselves into (Get out of jail free card springs to mind!).
So if I am a publisher who is doing the httpRange-14 thingy (as I am), do you
The address bar situation is discussed here
http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/04/why_does_the_address_bar_show.html with
reference to the Mozilla bug report.
Basically the browser folks think retaining the pre-forwarding URI
would be a kind of a lie, given that the content that's displayed came
from
for in the first place.
[1] http://caniuse.com/#search=replaceState
-Original Message-
From: public-lod-requ...@w3.org on behalf of Hugh Glaser
Sent: Fri 10/14/2011 4:22 PM
To: Norman Gray
Cc: Linking Open Data; Don Cruickshank
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
I am really no expert - really, so
-
From: public-lod-requ...@w3.org on behalf of Hugh Glaser
Sent: Fri 10/14/2011 4:22 PM
To: Norman Gray
Cc: Linking Open Data; Don Cruickshank
Subject: Re: Address Bar URI
I am really no expert - really, so showing my ignorance here.
I understand:
JS:
window.history.replaceState('Object', 'Title
On 10/14/11 6:22 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
** Note intending to be rude or inflammatory etc.. **
Meant to say:
** NOT intending to be rude or inflammatory etc.. **
Could I rephrase your statement for sake of clarity, due to context:
Users in older browsers are going to see (and copy and
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