Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
I don't know much about this, but since there might be differences between different models, I'll add my two cents. I have a ThinkPad X60. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:39 AM, David Henningsson david.hennings...@canonical.com wrote: On 2011-05-23 19:21, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: Most ThinkPad laptops have an extra mixer that has nothing to do with the HDA audio hardware. The kernel can talk to it through the embedded controller and, if it's muted, then there's no sound even if the normal controls are all set on. Does this concern the internal speaker only, or headphones / line out as well? Or can that differ between models? I'm assuming it doesn't mute e g USB headset or audio out over HDMI. The buttons affect both the speakers and headset. When the headest is connected the speaker is muted (I don't know if this is done in software or in hardware, but I always assumed it was done in hardware as it always worked this way). I never tried usb headset, and don't have HDMI. On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. So, what can the thinkpad-acpi driver do here? Can it e g control the hardware mute status at all, or can that only be done by pressing the keys? At least on my laptop alsamixer can not set the volume/mute of -c29, this can only be done by the buttons. Cheers, Tom ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: I don't know much about this, but since there might be differences between different models, I'll add my two cents. I have a ThinkPad X60. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:39 AM, David Henningsson david.hennings...@canonical.com wrote: On 2011-05-23 19:21, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: Most ThinkPad laptops have an extra mixer that has nothing to do with the HDA audio hardware. The kernel can talk to it through the embedded controller and, if it's muted, then there's no sound even if the normal controls are all set on. Does this concern the internal speaker only, or headphones / line out as well? Or can that differ between models? I'm assuming it doesn't mute e g USB headset or audio out over HDMI. The buttons affect both the speakers and headset. When the headest is connected the speaker is muted (I don't know if this is done in software or in hardware, but I always assumed it was done in hardware as it always worked this way). I never tried usb headset, and don't have HDMI. On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. So, what can the thinkpad-acpi driver do here? Can it e g control the hardware mute status at all, or can that only be done by pressing the keys? At least on my laptop alsamixer can not set the volume/mute of -c29, this can only be done by the buttons. thinkpad_acpi.volume_control=1 will enable it. I don't know why the default is the way it is. If you run my patch, then you'll have a file /sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/volume_autocontrol that configures whether the mute button just mutes the mixer (latch), toggles the mixer state (toggle), or sends KEY_MUTE (none). Without the patch, depending on your model and your acpi_osi parameter, you might have the button mute the mixer *and* send KEY_MUTE or just send KEY_MUTE. The former behavior is not so nice. (My patch also prevents typematic repeat of the mute button, which is just silly.) http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.platform.x86.devel/1941 --Andy Cheers, Tom ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
'Twas brillig, and Andrew Lutomirski at 23/05/11 18:21 did gyre and gimble: What is the kernel supposed to do to get PulseAudio to DTRT? On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. I'm willing to change the thinkpad-acpi driver to make it work better, but I know nothing at all about PulseAudio internals. What should I do? Can you give some more details? e.g. does it show up under the same alsa card as the HDA or is it separate? amixer -c0 (or appropriate number) would be useful to begin with :) Thanks Col -- Colin Guthrie gmane(at)colin.guthr.ie http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Colin Guthrie gm...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Andrew Lutomirski at 23/05/11 18:21 did gyre and gimble: What is the kernel supposed to do to get PulseAudio to DTRT? On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. I'm willing to change the thinkpad-acpi driver to make it work better, but I know nothing at all about PulseAudio internals. What should I do? Can you give some more details? e.g. does it show up under the same alsa card as the HDA or is it separate? amixer -c0 (or appropriate number) would be useful to begin with :) I have a ThinkPad X60 which I think is one of the relevant models. I have a mute botton and two volume buttons, but no light. Pressing vol up/down unmutes and changes the volume. As explained by Andy, alsamixer -c29 shows the thinkpad mixer and it works as expected (read-only). Below are the outputs of amixer for my system (running 2.6.39 fwiw). I'd be happy to try patches or help in any other way to make this work nicely with PA. Cheers, Tom teg@x60 ~ % amixer -c29 Simple mixer control 'Console',0 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined penum Playback channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 14 Mono: Playback 10 [71%] [off] teg@x60 ~ % amixer -c0 Simple mixer control 'Master',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch penum Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 63 Mono: Front Left: Playback 61 [97%] [0.00dB] [on] Front Right: Playback 61 [97%] [0.00dB] [on] Simple mixer control 'PCM',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch penum Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Mono: Front Left: Playback 23 [74%] [0.00dB] [on] Front Right: Playback 23 [74%] [0.00dB] [on] Simple mixer control 'CD',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive penum Capture exclusive group: 0 Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Mono: Capture [off] Front Left: Playback 23 [74%] [0.00dB] [on] Front Right: Playback 23 [74%] [0.00dB] [on] Simple mixer control 'Mic',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive penum Capture exclusive group: 0 Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Mono: Capture [on] Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off] Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [-34.50dB] [off] Simple mixer control 'Mic Boost',0 Capabilities: volume penum Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: 0 - 3 Front Left: 1 [33%] [10.00dB] Front Right: 1 [33%] [10.00dB] Simple mixer control 'IEC958',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined penum Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 Default PCM',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined penum Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 Playback Source',0 Capabilities: enum Items: 'PCM' 'ADC' Item0: 'PCM' Simple mixer control 'Beep',0 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined penum Playback channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 15 Mono: Playback 0 [0%] [-45.00dB] [off] Simple mixer control 'Capture',0 Capabilities: cvolume cswitch penum Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Capture 0 - 15 Front Left: Capture 15 [100%] [22.50dB] [on] Front Right: Capture 15 [100%] [22.50dB] [on] Simple mixer control 'Mix',0 Capabilities: cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive penum Capture exclusive group: 0 Capture channels: Mono Mono: Capture [off] ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Colin Guthrie gm...@colin.guthr.ie wrote: 'Twas brillig, and Andrew Lutomirski at 23/05/11 18:21 did gyre and gimble: What is the kernel supposed to do to get PulseAudio to DTRT? On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. I'm willing to change the thinkpad-acpi driver to make it work better, but I know nothing at all about PulseAudio internals. What should I do? Can you give some more details? e.g. does it show up under the same alsa card as the HDA or is it separate? amixer -c0 (or appropriate number) would be useful to begin with :) I have a ThinkPad X60 which I think is one of the relevant models. I have a mute botton and two volume buttons, but no light. Pressing vol up/down unmutes and changes the volume. As explained by Andy, alsamixer -c29 shows the thinkpad mixer and it works as expected (read-only). Below are the outputs of amixer for my system (running 2.6.39 fwiw). I'd be happy to try patches or help in any other way to make this work nicely with PA. My laptop will behave identically as far as ALSA is concerned. Tom, if you apply this patch: http://www.mail-archive.com/platform-driver-x86@vger.kernel.org/msg01884.html then you may find that some bugs are fixed. For example, right now I suspect that hitting mute repeatedly will make PA toggle the software mute on and off but will leave the mixer muted, leading to confusion as to why there's no sound. I also suspect that alsamixer does not update itself when you press mute (but that if you quit and reload it you'll see the new state). If you're using acpi_osi=Linux then you'll see something different. With that patch, pressing mute will not make PA do anything, which is better than the current behavior of doing the wrong thing. alsamixer should also update itself automatically. And you can play with /sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/volume_autocontrol to change how the button works. I want to make PA play well with that patch or a modified version of it. ---Andy ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
Re: [pulseaudio-discuss] Dealing with the ThinkPad hardware mixer
Hi Andrew and thanks for dealing with this issue! I'm sometimes working with certifying Lenovo for Canonical/Ubuntu, so this definitely concerns me. However I know very little about the thinkpad-acpi driver and would like to know more about how it works, and especially the mixer part. On 2011-05-23 19:21, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: Most ThinkPad laptops have an extra mixer that has nothing to do with the HDA audio hardware. The kernel can talk to it through the embedded controller and, if it's muted, then there's no sound even if the normal controls are all set on. Does this concern the internal speaker only, or headphones / line out as well? Or can that differ between models? I'm assuming it doesn't mute e g USB headset or audio out over HDMI. These laptops have three special buttons. The mute button either mutes the mixer or toggles the mute state. The volume up button unmutes the mixer (if muted) and sends KEY_VOLUMEUP. The volume down button unmutes the mixer and sends KEY_VOLUMEDOWN. On very new models, there's a hardware mute light that indicates the status of the hardware mute. The thinkpad-acpi driver currently exposes an ALSA mixer and the alsamixer utility can talk to it. But PulseAudio ignores it completely. What is the kernel supposed to do to get PulseAudio to DTRT? Seen from my perspective, and maybe along the lines of Colin's reply, I think the best would be to try to integrate the hw mute in the HDA card at the kernel level (and thus skip card 29 entirely). On some, but not (I think) all, models, we can disable hardware mixer control and make all of the buttons act like ordinary buttons, but that will cause the light (if present) to malfunction, and I don't know if all models can do this. So as it stands, PulseAudio would have to understand that the mixer is special and watch for ALSA change notifications. So, what can the thinkpad-acpi driver do here? Can it e g control the hardware mute status at all, or can that only be done by pressing the keys? I'm willing to change the thinkpad-acpi driver to make it work better, but I know nothing at all about PulseAudio internals. What should I do? (There's an added complexity. Really old models have mute and volume. I don't own one, so I don't know much about how they work.) As a maybe unrelated issue, many of these thinkpads also have a microphone mute hotkey I was hoping to be able to get to work at some point. Assuming we add a new key to linux/input.h, would it be easy for you to fix that in the thinkpad-acpi driver? I think it currently triggers KEY_UNKNOWN. -- David Henningsson, Canonical Ltd. http://launchpad.net/~diwic ___ pulseaudio-discuss mailing list pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss
