Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
On 2018-06-18 16:55, INADA Naoki wrote: Speeding up most python function and some bultin functions was very significant. But I doubt making some 3rd party call 20% faster can make real applications significant faster. These two sentences are almost contradictory. I find it strange to claim

Re: [Python-Dev] Idea: reduce GC threshold in development mode (-X dev)

2018-06-18 Thread Larry Hastings
On 06/08/2018 12:48 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Question: Do you think that bugs spotted by a GC collection are common enough to change the GC thresholds in development mode (new -X dev flag of Python 3.7)? I'd prefer that the development / debug environment be as much like production use as

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Stefan Behnel
Victor Stinner schrieb am 18.06.2018 um 15:09: > I tried two options to add support for FASTCALL on calling an object: > add a flag in tp_flags and reuse tp_call, or add a new tp_fastcall > slot. I failed to implement correctly any of these two options. > > There are multiple issues with

[Python-Dev] 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, part 2

2018-06-18 Thread Jake Edge
Hola python-dev, Here is some more coverage from the Python Language Summit. As usual, I am posting SubscriberLinks for articles that are still behind the paywall. LWN subscribers can always see our content right away; one week after they are published in a weekly edition, they become freely

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Guido van Rossum
Like Inada-san, I would like to see the implementation first. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 07:33 Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2018-06-18 15:09, Victor Stinner wrote: > > 2) we implemented a lot of other optimizations which made calls faster > > without having to touch tp_call nor tp_fastcall. > > And

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread INADA Naoki
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:33 PM Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2018-06-18 15:09, Victor Stinner wrote: > > 2) we implemented a lot of other optimizations which made calls faster > > without having to touch tp_call nor tp_fastcall. > > And that's a problem because these optimizations typically only

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
On 2018-06-18 15:09, Victor Stinner wrote: 2) we implemented a lot of other optimizations which made calls faster without having to touch tp_call nor tp_fastcall. And that's a problem because these optimizations typically only work for specific classes. My PEP wants to replace those by

Re: [Python-Dev] the new(-ish) dict ordering vs hash randomization

2018-06-18 Thread Petr Viktorin
On 06/18/18 15:13, Ethan Furman wrote: I'm sure we've already had this conversation, but my google-fu is failing me. Can someone provide a link to a discussion explaining why the new ordering of dictionaries does not defeat the hash-randomization non-ordering we added a few versions ago?

Re: [Python-Dev] the new(-ish) dict ordering vs hash randomization

2018-06-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 06:13:15 -0700 Ethan Furman wrote: > I'm sure we've already had this conversation, but my google-fu is failing me. > > Can someone provide a link to a discussion explaining why the new ordering of > dictionaries does not defeat the > hash-randomization non-ordering we

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Victor Stinner
Hi, I tried two options to add support for FASTCALL on calling an object: add a flag in tp_flags and reuse tp_call, or add a new tp_fastcall slot. I failed to implement correctly any of these two options. There are multiple issues with tp_fastcall: * ABI issue: it's possible to load a C

[Python-Dev] the new(-ish) dict ordering vs hash randomization

2018-06-18 Thread Ethan Furman
I'm sure we've already had this conversation, but my google-fu is failing me. Can someone provide a link to a discussion explaining why the new ordering of dictionaries does not defeat the hash-randomization non-ordering we added a few versions ago? -- ~Ethan~

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread INADA Naoki
I didn't meant comparing tp_fastcall and your PEP. I just meant we need to compare complexity and benefit (performance), and we need reference implementation for comparing. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 3:03 PM Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2018-06-18 03:34, INADA Naoki wrote: > > Victor had tried to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-06-18 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
On 2018-06-18 03:34, INADA Naoki wrote: Victor had tried to add `tp_fastcall` slot, but he suspended his effort because it's benefit is not enough for it's complexity. https://bugs.python.org/issue29259 I has a quick look at that patch and it's really orthogonal to what I'm proposing. I'm