[Python-Dev] Re: A proposal to modify `None` so that it hashes to a constant

On 11/30/2022 8:48 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: Thank you for this very clear analysis, Oscar. It seems to me that this strengthens the OP's case.  I am curious as to whether others agree. I do. On 30/11/2022 13:35, Oscar Benjamin wrote: On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 at 23:46, Steven D'Aprano

[Python-Dev] Re: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.11 release candidate 1 (3.11.0rc1) is available

On 8/8/2022 12:59 PM, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Python 3.11.0 is almost ready. This release, 3.11.0rc1, is the penultimate release preview. You can get it here: ## This is the first release candidate of Python 3.11 https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110rc1/

[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

On 7/21/2022 8:46 PM, Christopher Barker wrote: OT: Does anyone else find it very odd to call a communication system “discord”? For games, most of which involve combat, it seems appropriate. For CPython development, 'harmony' might be better. -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: Presenting PEP 695: Type Parameter Syntax

On 7/14/2022 6:16 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: In addition, we already use square brackets for *using* generics (e.g. list[int]), and most surveyed languages use the same type of brackets in declarations and uses. I do not yet use annotations, but knowing about 'list[int]', etc, I could

[Python-Dev] Re: Summary of Python tracker Issues

On 5/15/2022 11:31 AM, Ezio Melotti wrote: I merged a PR (https://github.com/python/psf-salt/pull/234) that was supposed to disable it, but apparently it's not enough. I'll double check with Ee (added to cc). This situation reminds me of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who starts a magical water

[Python-Dev] Re: Issue: 92359 - Python 3.10 IDLE 64-bit doesn't open any files names code (code.py, code.pyw) - found a partial fix but looking for input

On 5/14/2022 12:40 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: So the "current working directory" is the directory containing the file, right? That would explain the behavior. Standard import shadowing. Probably "Edit with IDLE" should be changed. I have no idea where that is defined. I presume somewhere

[Python-Dev] Re: Issue: 92359 - Python 3.10 IDLE 64-bit doesn't open any files names code (code.py, code.pyw) - found a partial fix but looking for input

On 5/13/2022 9:20 PM, ward.dav...@gmail.com wrote: https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/92359 This is a specific (and now closed) example of import shadowing. The general issue is the subject of https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/67997 -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: Proto-PEP part 1: Forward declaration of classes

On 4/22/2022 11:16 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: So I still prefer "forward class". I don't think it's as clear as "forward class" 'forward class' for an incomplete class is not at all clear to me. It is not clear to me which part of speech you intend it to be: noun, verb, adjective, or

[Python-Dev] Re: Proto-PEP part 1: Forward declaration of classes

On 4/22/2022 9:13 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:     forward class X() New keywords are a nuisance. And the proposed implementation seems too complex. How about a 'regular' class statement with a special marker of some sort. Example: 'body=None'. Either __new__ or __init__ could raise

[Python-Dev] Re: Summary of Python tracker Issues

On 4/15/2022 2:07 PM, Python tracker wrote: ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2022-04-08 - 2022-04-15) Python tracker at https://bugs.python.org/ This report only shows the last few days of bpo activity before the migration. GH report code is apparently still beint written.

[Python-Dev] Re: Importing a submodule doesn't always set an attribute on its parent

On 4/9/2022 5:09 AM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2022-04-09 04:24 UTC, Terry Reedy は書いた: Perhaps something intentionally vague like "Manual deletion of entries from sys.modules may invalidate statements above, even after re-imports." or "Manual deletion

[Python-Dev] Re: Importing a submodule doesn't always set an attribute on its parent

On 4/8/2022 7:56 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 4:38 PM dfremont--- via Python-Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org>> wrote: If you import A.B, then remove A from sys.modules and import A.B again, the newly-loaded version of A will not contain an attribute referring

[Python-Dev] Re: Slowly bend the C API towards the limited API to get a stable ABI for everyone

On 4/4/2022 11:19 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: On 03. 02. 22 1:40, Guido van Rossum wrote: [...] I understand the CPython is stuck supporting the de-facto standard C API for a long time. But unless we pick a "north star" (as people call it nowadays) of what we want to support in say 5-10 years,

[Python-Dev] Re: Descriptions in unittest and avoiding confusion

On 4/4/2022 11:07 AM, Coyot Linden (Glenn Glazer) wrote: I would like to point out another use case of triple quotes outside of docstrings. A docstring is *any* string literal, regardless of quotes, that is a statement in itself and is the *first* statement in the body of a module, class, or

[Python-Dev] Re: C API: Move PEP 523 "Adding a frame evaluation API to CPython" private C API to the internal C API

On 3/28/2022 5:44 PM, Jason Ansel via Python-Dev wrote: The PyTorch team plans to use PEP 523 as a part of PyTorch 2.0, so this proposal may break the next major release of PyTorch. The related project is TorchDynamo, which can be found here: https://github.com/facebookresearch/torchdynamo We

[Python-Dev] Re: Are "Batteries Included" still a Good Thing? [was: It's now time to deprecate the stdlib urllib module]

On 3/29/2022 4:55 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote: I was trying to think through how a "remote" stdlib might work. In the process, I got to wondering if there are known "specialists" for various current modules. Every now and then I still get assigned (or at least made nosy) about something to do with

[Python-Dev] Re: New PEP website is horrible to read on mobile device

On 3/15/2022 10:06 AM, Nathan Cook wrote: Please make https://peps.python.org/ more responsive to various form factors See attached screenshot from Chrome version 99.0.4844.58 on my Pixel 3aXL running Android 12 Are you sure that the site looks any different that

[Python-Dev] Re: An unambiguous way of initializing an empty dictionary and set

On 3/13/2022 5:49 PM, joao.p.f.batista...@gmail.com wrote: Currently: l = [] # new empty list t = () # new empty tuple s = set() # new empty set (no clean and consistent way of initializing regarding the others) <<< d = {} # new empty dictionary Possible solution: s = {} # new empty set d =

[Python-Dev] Re: Test error

On 3/3/2022 3:09 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: You might want to try asking your question at which is specifically set up to help people. But in general, all the tests are passing for folks. You will need to run those tests

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount" (round 2)

On 2/21/2022 11:11 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: On 19. 02. 22 8:46, Eric Snow wrote: As part of this proposal, we must make sure that users can clearly understand on which parts of the refcount behavior they can rely and which are considered implementation details.  Specifically, they should use

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount"

On 2/15/2022 7:10 PM, Eric Snow wrote: * the naive implementation shows a 4% slowdown Without understanding all the benefits, this seems a bit too much for me. 2% would be much better. * we have a number of strategies that should reduce that penalty I would like to see that before

[Python-Dev] Re: Replace debug runtime checks in release mode with assertions in debug mode

On 2/7/2022 11:48 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: (I still haven't gotten into the habit of building in debug mode by default, in part because it *isn't* the default when you invoke ./configure or PCbuild/build.bat.) On Windows, I have build.bat in the directory containing the repository and

[Python-Dev] Re: Increase of Spammy PRs and PR reviews

On 1/31/2022 7:31 PM, Nikita Sobolev wrote: Hi, my name is Nikita and I think that I am the person behind these spammy PRs. Link: https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls/sobolevn Nikita, I don't know if the OP was responding only to your PRs or others, but I other people have seen truly

[Python-Dev] Re: 3.11 enhanced error location - can it be smarter?

On 1/19/2022 5:01 PM, Barry Scott wrote: Oh and if you use colours then you please give me the ability to set the colours for each usage. IDLE has that for Error Text, along with other colors. I have custom colour settings for a lots of unix too ls so that I get contrast etc. The defaults

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone using 15-bit PyLong digits (PYLONG_BITS_IN_DIGIT=15)?

On 1/16/2022 7:08 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote: Now /that/ I certainly wasn't expecting. I don't see the same effect on macOS / Clang, whether compiling with --enable-optimizations or not; this appears to be a GCC innovation. And indeed, as Tim suggested, it turns out that there's no division

[Python-Dev] Re: RFC on Callable Syntax PEP

Batuhan expresses my concerns better than I could, so I just add my agreement. On 12/18/2021 3:13 PM, Batuhan Taskaya wrote: tl;dr: I find it very troubling that we are going on a path where need to increase the language complexity (syntax) only in the cause 'easier' typing. So I am opposed

[Python-Dev] Re: Do we need to remove everything that's deprecated?

On 11/18/2021 9:52 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:49 AM Terry Reedy wrote: And then there are truly trivial removals like the "failUnless" or "SafeConfigParser" aliases. I don't see a good reason to remove those -- they could stay deprecated forev

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 669: Low Impact Monitoring for CPython

On 12/7/2021 10:41 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: I would like to announce latest PEP, PEP 669: Low Impact Monitoring for CPython. The aim of this PEP is to provide an API for profilers, debuggers and other tools to avoid the punitive overhead of using sys.settrace. If you have any interest in

[Python-Dev] Re: The current state of typing PEPs

On 11/29/2021 8:16 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 5:01 PM Terry Reedy <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: On 11/29/2021 5:56 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Nov 25, 2021, at 13:41, Christopher Barker mailto:python...@gmail.com>> wrote: >

[Python-Dev] Re: The current state of typing PEPs

On 11/29/2021 5:56 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Nov 25, 2021, at 13:41, Christopher Barker wrote: What is their role? Up to today, I have treated them as an advanced feature, useful for "complex codebases". But there are any number of examples springing up on the internet, to the point where

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 670: Convert macros to functions in the Python C API

On 11/23/2021 6:21 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Thanks Antoine. We definitely need to push back on such "expectations" and turn them into facts by performing careful measurements. Surprises lurk everywhere. See e.g. https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/issues/109#issuecomment-975619113

[Python-Dev] Re: The current state of typing PEPs

On 11/17/2021 5:47 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Does PEP 563 or 649 satisfy static and dynamic typing needs? In the interest of full transparency, we want to let the Python community know that the Steering Council continues to discuss PEP 563 (Postponed Evaluation of Annotations) and PEP 649

[Python-Dev] Re: Do we need to remove everything that's deprecated?

On 11/16/2021 7:43 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: On 16. 11. 21 1:11, Brett Cannon wrote: I think the key point with that approach is if you wanted to maximize your support across supported versions, this would mean there wouldn't be transition code except when the SC approves of a shorter

[Python-Dev] Re: Preventing Unicode-related gotchas (Was: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python)

On 11/15/2021 5:45 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: In another thread, Serhiy already suggested we ban invisible control characters (other than whitespace) in comments and strings. He said in string *literals*. One would put them in stromgs by using visible escape sequences. >>> '\033' is

[Python-Dev] Re: Preventing Unicode-related gotchas (Was: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python)

On 11/13/2021 4:35 PM, pt...@austin.rr.com wrote: I’ve not been following the thread, but Steve Holden forwarded me the To explore the extreme case, I wrote a pyparsing transformer to convert identifiers in a body of Python source to mixed font, equivalent to the original source after NFKC

[Python-Dev] Update colorsys with YUV conversions?

https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29512 adds what appears to be well written conversions between RGB and YUV color systems, with tests. Are we allowing such improvements? If not, a module docstring note or comment should be added. -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: Proposal: Allow non-default after default arguments

On 11/9/2021 1:52 PM, Sebastian Rittau wrote: Am 09.11.21 um 19:26 schrieb Terry Reedy: The signature of Sebastian's function with honest parameter names is foo(x_or_y, required_y=_NotGiven, /).  It is the 2nd argument, not the first, that is optional, as with range.  If required_y

[Python-Dev] Re: Proposal: Allow non-default after default arguments

On 11/9/2021 9:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: By the way, this discussion is probably better suited to the Python-Ideas mailing list. But since we're here... On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 11:37:40AM +0100, Sebastian Rittau wrote: To me, the "natural" solution looks like this: def foo(x=None, y):

[Python-Dev] Re: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python

On 11/2/2021 1:02 PM, Marc-Andre Lemburg wrote: On 01.11.2021 13:17, Petr Viktorin wrote: PEP: Title: Unicode Security Considerations for Python Author: Petr Viktorin Status: Active Type: Informational Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 01-Nov-2021 Post-History: Thanks for writing this

[Python-Dev] Re: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python

On 11/1/2021 8:17 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: Nevertheless, I did do a bit of research about similar gotchas in Python, and I'd like to publish a summary as an informational PEP, pasted below. Very helpful. Bidirectional Text -- Some scripts, such as Hebrew or Arabic, are

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting

On 10/4/2021 9:57 AM, Ammar Askar wrote: Throwing in another +1 for `except group`. It's explicit, doesn't introduce new punctuation and avoids confusion with unpacking. I agree for same reasons. And avoids more bikeshedding. I checked and if 'except group' is added to keyword.kwlist

[Python-Dev] Re: Changing exception text in micro releases

On 9/24/2021 10:46 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: On 9/24/2021 10:39 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: On 9/24/21 6:51 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: > This is clearly an improvement. My question is: is it okay to backport this to 3.9 and 3.10? I > think we have a rule that it's okay to change the exception text,

[Python-Dev] Re: f-strings in the grammar

On 9/21/2021 3:29 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:49 AM Eric V. Smith > wrote: [Pablo] * The parser will allow nesting quote characters. This means that we **could** allow reusing the same quote type in nested expressions like

[Python-Dev] Re: f-strings in the grammar

On 9/20/2021 11:48 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: When I initially wrote f-strings, it was an explicit design goal to be just like existing strings, but with a new prefix. That's why there are all of the machinations in the parser for scanning within f-strings: the parser had already done its

[Python-Dev] Re: f-strings in the grammar

On 9/20/2021 8:46 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 20.09.21 14:18, Pablo Galindo Salgado пише: * The parser will likely have "\n" characters and backslashes in f-strings expressions, which currently is impossible: What about characters "\x7b", "\x7d", "\x5c", etc? What about newlines in single

[Python-Dev] Re: f-strings in the grammar

On 9/20/2021 7:18 AM, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: there are some interesting things we **could** (emphasis on could) get out of this and I wanted to discuss what people think about them. * The parser will allow nesting quote characters. This means that we **could** allow reusing the same

[Python-Dev] Re: Should the definition of an "(async) iterator" include __iter__?

On 9/16/2021 3:02 AM, Paul Moore wrote: The debate here is (I think!) whether an *iterator* that is not also an *iterable* is a valid iterator. This framing of the question seems biased in that it initially uses 'iterator' to mean 'object with __next__ but not __iter__' whe the propriety of

[Python-Dev] Re: Should the definition of an "(async) iterator" include __iter__?

On 9/15/2021 12:33 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:03 PM Steven D'Aprano > wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 12:33:32PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: > My view of this is: > > A. It's not an iterator if it doesn't define

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 467 feedback from the Steering Council

On 9/9/2021 1:56 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: On 9/9/21 9:37 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > While I think int.to_bytes() is pretty obscure (I knew about it, forgot about it, and learned > about it again!) I’m not so sure it’s any less obscure than a proposed bytes.fromint(). > > So why don’t we

[Python-Dev] Re: Should PEP 8 be updated for Python 3 only?

On 8/25/2021 6:48 PM, Steve Holden wrote: I suspect it's the same motivation that makes us comment out a block of code rather than deleting it, even though we know the VCS will let us retirive it whenever we want. If I'm wrong it won't be fatal. Or surprising ;-) Kind regards, Steve On

[Python-Dev] Re: Is anyone relying on new-bugs-announce/python-bugs-list/bugs.python.org summaries

On 8/23/2021 6:11 PM, Ammar Askar wrote: Hey everyone, As part of PEP 588, migrating bugs.python.org issues to Github, there are two current mailing list related items that need a replacement or need to be turned down. 1. Weekly summary emails with bug counts and issues from the week, example:

[Python-Dev] Re: New moderator

On 8/23/2021 4:02 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: After petitioning the Steering Council I have been added as a moderator for the Python Dev mailing list.  I was already the moderator of four other Python lists. Thank you Ethan. I think you have done better than I would have with python-list. My

[Python-Dev] Re: Dropping out of this list

on because I'm lazy. On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 at 20:38, Terry Reedy wrote: As I said before, I am using Ignore Thread to ignore these threads. Please stop evading my wishes by sending me private discourtesy copies. At least 3 people have done that when *not* responding to anything I wrote. --

[Python-Dev] Re: Dropping out of this list

As I said before, I am using Ignore Thread to ignore these threads. Please stop evading my wishes by sending me private discourtesy copies. At least 3 people have done that when *not* responding to anything I wrote. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___

[Python-Dev] Re: Dropping out of this list

On 8/18/2021 9:37 PM, Edwin Zimmerman wrote: On 8/18/21 9:18 PM, Jonathan Goble wrote: I am mostly a lurker, but I am also considering unsubscribing if someone doesn't step in and stop the mess +1 Both the email and newsreader parts of Thunderbird have an option called Ignore Thread. Do

[Python-Dev] Re: Problems with dict subclassing performance

SUMMARY: If you, Marco, want to get dicts subclasses made faster and you seriously think that they can be, open a proper issue on bugs.python.org., as I describe in 3 below. In any case, drop this tread, which started off wrongly. August 6, in response to the weekly post, Summary of Python

[Python-Dev] Re: Making code object APIs unstable

On 8/13/2021 8:45 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Now, backwards compatibility is still nothing to sneeze at, but at least we don't have to hem and haw about ABI compatibility. If back compatibility were our sacred prime directive, then we would not (or should not) have changed code objects in

[Python-Dev] Re: Making code object APIs unstable

On 8/13/2021 1:24 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: In 3.11 we're changing a lot of details about code objects. Part of this is the "Faster CPython" work, part of it is other things (e.g. PEP 657 -- Fine Grained Error Locations in Tracebacks). As a result, the set of fields of the code object is

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 649: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations

On 8/11/2021 7:56 AM, Larry Hastings wrote: So, here's an idea, credit goes to Eric V. Smith.  What if we tweak how decorators work, /jst slghtly/, so that they work like the workaround code above? Specifically: currently, decorators are called just after the function or class

[Python-Dev] Re: 咨询python的相关问题(Consult python related issues)

On 7/28/2021 6:46 AM, C wrote: Hello, I would like to consult related issues encountered when reading the python language reference manual, Ask question on python-list, which is about *using* python. https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list python-dev is for discussion of

[Python-Dev] Re: Stale PR

On 7/6/2021 12:29 PM, Brian Curtin wrote: Before looking at the code, my first question would be about the description: "I kinda ran out of time, i suspect more testing is due." If you were out of time then it's probably not done and maybe lacks the tests you initially thought it did, so did

[Python-Dev] Re: Critique of PEP 657

On 6/30/2021 5:30 PM, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Also, notice we are extending the traceback module (in Python) to support this, so you probably can also leverage those changes so you don't need to mess with code objects yourself :) IDLE currently uses traceback.extract_tb and

[Python-Dev] Re: Critique of PEP 657

> Then how will modules that customizes traceback presentation, such as idlelib, be able to get the 4-tuple for a particular traceback entry? From the exception, you can get the code object and from the code object the extra information using the Python API: Example: >>> try: ...   1/0

[Python-Dev] Re: Critique of PEP 657

On 6/30/2021 12:30 PM, Ammar Askar wrote: I don't think we're making strong claims that the full `(line, end_line, column, end_column)` should be the canonical representation for exception locations. The only concrete place we suggest their usage is in the printing of tracebacks.

[Python-Dev] Re: [python-committers] Re: Roundup to GitHub Issues migration

On 6/23/2021 4:28 PM, Inada Naoki wrote: FWIW, GitHub announced new powerful Issues today. https://github.com/features/issues It may fill some gap between GitHub Issues and Roundup. I signed up for the beta waiting list so I could experiment with it. Someone else would have to sign up

[Python-Dev] Re: Roundup to GitHub Issues migration

On 6/22/2021 3:52 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: One thing I will remind people is I personally have led the work to move this project from: 1. SourceForge to our own infrastructure 2. Mercurial to git 3. Our own infrastructure to GitHub for code management At this point, I (once a skeptic)

[Python-Dev] Re: Roundup to GitHub Issues migration

On 6/22/2021 4:40 AM, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Le 21/06/2021 à 23:31, Christopher Barker a écrit : Also: cPython is a large, complex, and mature project. I don't think many non-developers can even identify a true bug, much less write a helpful big report. [...] There is a genuine question

[Python-Dev] Re: Roundup to GitHub Issues migration

On 6/22/2021 4:00 AM, Tiziano Zito wrote: Hi, On Mon 21 Jun, 13:48 +0200, Victor Stinner wrote: The requirement for a GitHub account was well known when PEP 581 was accepted. The PEP was approved. It's now time to move on! I think it is important to notice that GitHub actively blocks user

[Python-Dev] Re: My help with yours IDLE

On 6/7/2021 12:20 PM, MatroCholo wrote: Dear Python Developers, I have found that default IDLE can't open .py files on double click After installing with the python.org Windows installer, double-clicking x.py should run x.py with the default python. It does for me. The file should be

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/20/2021 10:49 AM, Oscar Benjamin wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 04:58, Terry Reedy wrote: I believe the ratio for the sort of numerical computing getting bogus complaints is sometimes more like 95% of *time* in compiled C and only, say, 5% of *time* in the Python interpreter. So even

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/13/2021 4:18 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: Hi Terry, On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. As always, comments and suggestions

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. What is the purpose of this PEP? It seems in part to be like a Standards Track PEP in that it proposes a new (revised) implementation idea

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome. The claim that starts the Motivation section, "Python is widely acknowledged as slow.",

[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython

On 5/12/2021 5:14 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 12 May 2021 17:05:03 -0400 Terry Reedy wrote: Yet you always see it: new people not knowing where to start, highly skilled contributors drowning and intermediate contributors moving slowly I have multiple times strongly recommended

[Python-Dev] Re: Speeding up CPython

On 5/12/2021 2:50 PM, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote: Great news, just a tiny bit from me. I read the other day in the OpenSource report sponsored by the Ford Foundation a CPython contributor stating that we have an all time high count of Python users but an all time low number of contributors

[Python-Dev] Re: Future PEP: Include Fine Grained Error Locations in Tracebacks

On 5/10/2021 6:07 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 05:34:12AM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/10/2021 3:28 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: I'm mostly thinking of tracebacks which go >10 levels deep, which is rather common in larger applications. For those tracebacks, the top entr

[Python-Dev] Re: Future PEP: Include Fine Grained Error Locations in Tracebacks

On 5/10/2021 3:28 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: I'm mostly thinking of tracebacks which go >10 levels deep, which is rather common in larger applications. For those tracebacks, the top entries are mostly noise you never look at when debugging. The proposal now adds another 10 extra lines to jump

[Python-Dev] Re: On the migration from master to main

On 5/3/2021 9:27 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/3/2021 7:45 PM, Tim Peters wrote: I'm guessing it's time to fiddle local CPython clones to account for master->main renaming now? Blob 2 ("upstream"): """ The CPython repository's default branch was renamed from ``ma

[Python-Dev] Re: On the migration from master to main

On 5/3/2021 7:45 PM, Tim Peters wrote: I'm guessing it's time to fiddle local CPython clones to account for master->main renaming now? If so, I've seen two blobs of instructions, which are very similar but not identical: Blob 1 ("origin"): """ You just need to update your local clone after

[Python-Dev] Re: expanduser('~other') reliability and future

On 4/28/2021 1:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On UNIX-oid platforms (e.g. BSD, Linux, Mac), ~user/ should be reasonably reliable, after all the shell does it. On Windows, only ~/ can be relied upon -- the rest is "best effort". I'd be okay with deprecating ~user/ on Windows, but on UNIX-oid it

[Python-Dev] Re: Keeping Python a Duck Typed Language.

On 4/22/2021 9:15 AM, Paul Moore wrote: Absolutely, I see no problem with "use duck typing for this argument" being opt-in. As in x: 'duck'? or x: '!', where '!' means 'infer it!', or from typing import Infer ... x: Infer ? Ditto for -> ? -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 563 and 649: The Great Compromise

On 4/17/2021 11:43 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: The heart of the debate between PEPs 563 and 649 is the question: what should an annotation be?  Should it be a string or a Python value?  It seems people who are pro-PEP 563 want it to be a string, and people who are pro-PEP 649 want it to be

[Python-Dev] Re: Revive PEP 396 -- Module Version Numbers ?

On 4/15/2021 12:35 PM, David Mertz wrote: re 2.2.1 re.__version__ was last modified 2001-10-07 by F. Lundh in bec95b9d8825b39cff46a8c645fa0eeb8409854e. What does '2.2.1' mean? Only Fredrik knows. The commit message says that he rewrote the pattern.sub and pattern.subn methods in C.

[Python-Dev] Re: Revive PEP 396 -- Module Version Numbers ?

On 4/15/2021 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Apr 14, 2021, at 23:11, Christopher Barker wrote: You wrote the original PEP, so of course you can withdraw it (or reject it), but... Are you sure? See this discussion, I don't think it's as simple as all that. From a library maintainers

[Python-Dev] Re: gzip.py: allow deterministic compression (without time stamp)

On 4/14/2021 8:00 AM, Joachim Wuttke wrote: Furthermore, if policy about API changes allows, I'd suggest that `NO_TIMESTAMP` become the new default value for `mtime`. Changing defaults is a huge pain, which we mostly avoid. -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: Making staticmethod callable, any oposite?

On 4/13/2021 9:20 PM, Inada Naoki wrote: But Mark Shannon said we shouldn't make such a change without discussing at python-dev. I don't know we *should*, but I agree that it is *ideal*. I consider this case borderline. A lot of changes get made, and must be, without pydev discussion.

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 649: Deferred Evaluation Of Annotations Using Descriptors, round 2

On 4/13/2021 4:21 AM, Baptiste Carvello wrote: Le 12/04/2021 à 03:55, Larry Hastings a écrit : * in section "Interactive REPL Shell": For the sake of simplicity, in this case we forego delayed evaluation. The intention of the code + codeop modules is that people should be able to write

[Python-Dev] Re: Immutable view classes - inherit from dict or from Mapping?

On 4/12/2021 11:29 AM, Andreas R Maier wrote: I have written ... My question is, should ... The pydev list is for development of future Python versions and CPython releases. Questions about the use of, or development with, current versions and releases should be directed elsewhere, such as

[Python-Dev] Re: [EXTERNAL] PEP 647 Accepted

On 4/10/2021 1:02 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I propose that we just clarify this in the docs we'll write for TypeGuard. I agree. When I reviewed the PEP, my concern was not with 'TypeGuard' itself, once I understood more or less what it means, but with the explanation in the PEP. --

[Python-Dev] Re: Help to Resolve issues with Pull request 25220

On 4/7/2021 12:32 PM, Barney Gale wrote: It looks like you’ve incorporated several other changes into your commit by mistake. The PR definitely has too many changes unrelated to the issue. I recognize a few of the changes as related to recent merges. My guess that the the issue-43737

[Python-Dev] Re: NOTE: Python 3.9.3 contains an unintentional ABI incompatibility leading to crashes on 32-bit systems

On 4/4/2021 9:57 AM, Łukasz Langa wrote: On 4 Apr 2021, at 11:34, Matthias Klose > wrote: I always tested the release candidates, and built them for various Linux architectures.  And I'm filing issues marked as 'released-blocker' when I see regressions introduced,

[Python-Dev] Re: NOTE: Python 3.9.3 contains an unintentional ABI incompatibility leading to crashes on 32-bit systems

On 4/3/2021 7:15 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 03. 04. 21 21:44, Łukasz Langa wrote: The memory layout of PyThreadState was unintentionally changed in the recent 3.9.3 bugfix release. This leads to crashes on 32-bit systems when importing binary extensions compiled for Python 3.9.0 - 3.9.2. This

[Python-Dev] Re: Request for comments on final version of PEP 653 (Precise Semantics for Pattern Matching)

On 4/2/2021 12:02 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 8:01 PM Terry Reedy The current near-Python code does not have such a check. Again, I'm not sure what "the current near-Python code" refers to. From context it seems you are referring to the pseudo code in

[Python-Dev] Re: Request for comments on final version of PEP 653 (Precise Semantics for Pattern Matching)

On 4/1/2021 9:38 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 2:18 PM Mark Shannon > wrote: Almost all the changes come from requiring __match_args__ to be a tuple of unique strings. The current posted PEP does not say 'unique' and I agree with Guido that

[Python-Dev] Re: Where and how can I contribute?

On 3/27/2021 4:06 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 26.03.21 20:37, Terry Reedy пише: On 3/26/2021 6:29 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: I would contribute to the project in my spare time. Can someone point me to some easy task? I know C and the Python C API a little. Review existing PRs.  In some cases

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654: Exception Groups and except* [REPOST]

On 3/26/2021 7:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Everyone, Given the resounding silence I'm inclined to submit this to the Steering Council. While I'm technically a co-author, Irit has done almost all the work, and she's done a great job. If there are no further issues I'll send this SC-wards

[Python-Dev] Re: Where and how can I contribute?

On 3/26/2021 6:29 AM, Marco Sulla wrote: I would contribute to the project in my spare time. Can someone point me to some easy task? I know C and the Python C API a little. Review existing PRs. In some cases (ask), convert existing patches posted on bpo issues to PRs. -- Terry Jan Reedy

[Python-Dev] Re: aiter/anext review request

On 3/19/2021 6:11 PM, Joshua Bronson wrote: Discussion here so far is converging on resurrecting my original PR from 2018 adding these to operator. I prefer this too. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To

[Python-Dev] Re: Tottime column for cprofile output does not add up

On 3/10/2021 7:16 AM, Jonathan Frawley wrote: I am using cprofile and PStats to try and figure out where bottlenecks are in a program. When I sum up all of the times in the "tottime" column, it only comes to 57% of the total runtime. Is this due to rounding of times or some other issue?

[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council update for February

On 3/9/2021 3:27 PM, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: The Steering Council just published the community update for February: Thank you for posting this. The Steering Council discussed renaming the master branch to main and the consensus was that we should do that. I did not that this

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