Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: IMO strings that are being printf'd can probably be assumed to be human readable, and therefore candidates for translation. This Greg That's a dangerous assumption to make, I think. Could be.

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Greg Ewing wrote: Maybe backquotes could be repurposed in Py3k for interpolated string literals? backquotes are a PITA to type on many non-US keyboards. /F ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Thomas Heller
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Ewing wrote: Maybe backquotes could be repurposed in Py3k for interpolated string literals? backquotes are a PITA to type on many non-US keyboards. Even more since they are especially broken in Windows XEmacs. Thomas

Re: [Python-Dev] international python

2005-09-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
This does make me think of the interesting prospect of an internationalised string literal, though (e.g., _This an il8n string). I'm not sure it would be enough of a win over the status quo though, I don't think so either. i18n doesn't require its specific string notation (in addition,

Re: [Python-Dev] international python

2005-09-09 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Antoine Pitrou wrote: - seamless unicode support: how about making the default Python charset utf-8 instead of ascii ? right now, someone (say an American or English) who does not design his app with non-ascii characters in mind may have a surprise when users enter those characters in

Re: [Python-Dev] Tools directory (Was RE: Replacement for print in Python 3.0)

2005-09-09 Thread A.M. Kuchling
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 06:52:59PM -0700, Brett Cannon wrote: Otherwise it is mostly a lack of advertisement and them not being installed by ``make install``. If you just download the soure and Agreed. I've often wished that reindent.py was installed somewhere. Probably the only way is

Re: [Python-Dev] Tools directory (Was RE: Replacement for print in Python 3.0)

2005-09-09 Thread Tim Peters
[Brett Cannon] I assume that the Windows installer includes the Tools/ directory. It installs part of it, not all: C:\Python24\Toolsdir/b i18n pynche Scripts versioncheck webchecker So it's missing these Tools directories: audiopy bgen compiler faqwiz framer freeze modulator msi unicode world

Re: [Python-Dev] international python

2005-09-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le vendredi 09 septembre 2005 à 23:09 +1000, Neil Hodgson a écrit : Antoine Pitrou: As for seamless unicode support, there are also problems sometimes with filenames and filepaths: see e.g. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=1283895group_id=5470atid=105470 This bug

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 9/8/05, Stephen J. Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could be. For me, the name print is associated with a long history of magical behavior that only a human could possibly feel comfortable with. One of the great sins of Pascal was tarring the name write with the same brush! Well, apart

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread skip
Fredrik backquotes are a PITA to type on many non-US keyboards. Interesting. On US keyboards they are often easier to type than parens... Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

[Python-Dev] Tools directory (Was RE: Replacement for print in Python 3.0)

2005-09-09 Thread Jim Jewett
How should we document [the tools directory] At the interactive prompt, help() lets me get a list of topics (not including tools), keywords, or modules -- but no mention of tools. I didn't find any references at http://python.org/doc/ The tutorial does mention the standard library (and the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and new style classes

2005-09-09 Thread Russell E. Owen
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tristan Seligmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Lisandro Dalcin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-09-08 13:56:07 -0300]: Yes, you are right. But this way, you are making explicit a behavior that will be implicit in the future. For example, we could also do:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and new style classes

2005-09-09 Thread holger krekel
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 11:31 -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tristan Seligmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why does it matter if the single statement you insert is spelled metaclass = type instead of from future import whatever? Remember, unlike the

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Martin Blais
On 9/8/05, Antoine Pitrou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Le jeudi 08 septembre 2005 à 19:12 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull a écrit : It would be nice to be able to lose the _() calls to gettext(). The function would look to see if a message catalog was available for the current output

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and new style classes

2005-09-09 Thread Michael Chermside
Lisandro Dalcín proposes: Any possibility to add something like from __future__ import new_style_classes Tristan Seligmann writes: Why does it matter if the single statement you insert is spelled metaclass = type instead of from future import whatever? Russell Owen responds: It

[Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and iterators

2005-09-09 Thread Lisandro Dalcin
PEP 3000 says (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html) : Core language - Return iterators instead of lists where appropriate for atomic type methods (e.g. dict.keys(), dict.values(), dict.items(), etc.) Built-in Namespace - Make built-ins return an iterator where appropriate (e.g. range(),

[Python-Dev] SIGPIPE = SIG_IGN?

2005-09-09 Thread Gustavo Niemeyer
Greetings, I was wondering, why are we setting SIGPIPE to SIG_IGN in initsigs(): static void initsigs(void) { #ifdef SIGPIPE PyOS_setsig(SIGPIPE, SIG_IGN); #endif [...] } One of the side effects is: os.system(yes | read any) yes: standard output:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and new style classes

2005-09-09 Thread Guido van Rossum
Can you all just stop discussing this? In the last 4 contributions nothing has been added that hasn't been said yet. It's not going to change. Get used to it.There are more important issues. On 9/9/05, Russell E. Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3000 and iterators

2005-09-09 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 9/9/05, Lisandro Dalcin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PEP 3000 says (http://www.python.org/peps/pep-3000.html) : Core language - Return iterators instead of lists where appropriate for atomic type methods (e.g. dict.keys(), dict.values(), dict.items(), etc.) Built-in Namespace - Make

Re: [Python-Dev] SIGPIPE = SIG_IGN?

2005-09-09 Thread Guido van Rossum
I was wondering, why are we setting SIGPIPE to SIG_IGN in initsigs(): Because you can get a SIGPIPE from writing to a socket whose other side has shut down, and we want to turn that into an error. -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Re: [Python-Dev] Tools directory (Was RE: Replacement for print in Python 3.0)

2005-09-09 Thread Nick Coghlan
Jim Jewett wrote: How should we document [the tools directory] At the interactive prompt, help() lets me get a list of topics (not including tools), keywords, or modules -- but no mention of tools. I didn't find any references at http://python.org/doc/ The tutorial does mention the

Re: [Python-Dev] international python

2005-09-09 Thread Neil Hodgson
Antoine Pitrou: I don't have a Windows machine at hand right now to test it, but, even if this solution works, it breaks the principle of least astonishment: Astonishment is subjective and so a poor tool to measure by. At one stage Ruby tried to follow the more common formulation principle

[Python-Dev] [draft] python-dev Summary for 2005-08-16 through 2005-08-31

2005-09-09 Thread Tony Meyer
If anyone would like to take a break from all this Py3k discussion, please feel free to read through the following draft for the second August summary. Checking over the O(N**2) behaviour in StreamReader.readline summary would be particularly appreciated. As always, any corrections/suggestions