Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Bengt The characters in b could be encoded in plain ascii, or Bengt utf16le, you have to know. Which base64 are you thinking about? Both RFC 3548 and RFC 2045 (MIME) specify subsets of

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing Non-Unicode Support?

2006-02-20 Thread Jeff Rush
Guido van Rossum wrote: On 2/19/06, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Quoting Neal Norwitz] I've heard of a bunch of people using --disable-unicode. I'm not sure if it's curiosity or if there are really production builds without unicode. Ask this on c.l.p too. Do you know of any embedded

[Python-Dev] s/bytes/octet/ [Was:Re: bytes.from_hex() [Was: PEP 332 revival in coordination with pep 349?]]

2006-02-20 Thread Bengt Richter
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:59:38 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aahz wrote: The problem is that they don't understand that Martin v. L?wis is not Unicode -- once all strings are Unicode, this is guaranteed to work. Well, after all the string literal

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Paul Moore
On 2/19/06, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are missing the rationale of the PEP process. The point is *not* documentation. The point of the PEP process is to channel and collect discussion, so that the BDFL can make a decision. The BDFL is not bound at all to the PEP process.

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing Non-Unicode Support?

2006-02-20 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Jeff Rush wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: On 2/19/06, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Quoting Neal Norwitz] I've heard of a bunch of people using --disable-unicode. I'm not sure if it's curiosity or if there are really production builds without unicode. Ask this on c.l.p too. Do you

[Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
I'm withdrawing the last proposal. I'm not convinced by the argument that __contains__ should always return True (perhaps it should also insert the value?), nor by the complaint that a holy invariant would be violated (so what?). But the amount of discussion and the number of different viewpoints

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex() [Was: PEP 332 revival in coordination with pep 349?]

2006-02-20 Thread Bengt Richter
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 23:33:15 +0100, Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 01:21:18PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: [...] - The return value for the non-unicode encodings depends on the value of the encoding argument. Not really: you'll always get a basestring

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Benji York
Guido van Rossum wrote: FWIW, it looks like all the sample templates are still wasting a lot of horizontal space in the first two columns the second is almost always empty. Perhaps the author of the change could be placed *below* the timestamp instead of next to it? Also for all practical

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Aahz
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006, Josiah Carlson wrote: I agree, there is nothing perfect. But at least in all of my use-cases, and the majority of the ones I've seen 'in the wild', my previous post provided an implementation that worked precisely like desired, and precisely like a regular dictionary,

Re: [Python-Dev] (-1)**(1/2)==1?

2006-02-20 Thread Georg Brandl
Jonathan Barbero wrote: Hello! My name is Jonathan, i´m new with Python. I try this in the command line: (-1)**(1/2) 1 This is wrong, i think it must throw an exception. What do you think? 1/2 0 (-1)**0 1 It's fine. If you want to get a floating point result

Re: [Python-Dev] (-1)**(1/2)==1?

2006-02-20 Thread Aahz
Georg, Please do not respond to off-topic posts on python-dev without redirecting them to comp.lang.python (or other suitable place). Thanks! On Mon, Feb 20, 2006, Georg Brandl wrote: Jonathan Barbero wrote: Hello! My name is Jonathan, i?m new with Python. I try this in the command

Re: [Python-Dev] (-1)**(1/2)==1?

2006-02-20 Thread Facundo Batista
2006/2/20, Jonathan Barbero [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello! My name is Jonathan, i´m new with Python. Hello Jonathan. This list is only for developing Python itself, not for developing in Python. You should address this kind of question in comp.lang.python (available as a newsgroup and a mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 5:41 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: ... Alternative A: add a new method to the dict type with the semantics of __getattr__ from the last proposal, using default_factory if not None (except on_missing is inlined). This avoids the discussion about broken invariants, but one

Re: [Python-Dev] Does eval() leak?

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/16/06, John Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Should I expect the virtual memory allocation to go up if I do the following? - raw = open(data).read() while True: d = eval(raw) - I would have expected the memory allocated to the object referenced by d to be

Re: [Python-Dev] (-1)**(1/2)==1?

2006-02-20 Thread Michael Walter
1/2 0 (-1) ** (1./2) Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power Regards, Michael On 2/20/06, Jonathan Barbero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! My name is Jonathan, i´m new with Python. I try this in

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Bengt Richter
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:41:43 -0800, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm withdrawing the last proposal. I'm not convinced by the argument that __contains__ should always return True (perhaps it should also insert the value?), nor by the complaint that a holy invariant would be violated

Re: [Python-Dev] Does eval() leak?

2006-02-20 Thread John Marshall
Martin v. Löwis wrote: John Marshall wrote: Should I expect the virtual memory allocation to go up if I do the following? python-dev is a list for discussing development of Python, not the development with Python. Please post this question to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For python-dev, a

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah == Josiah Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Josiah I try to internalize it by not thinking of strings as Josiah encoded data, but as binary data, and unicode as text. I Josiah then remind myself that unicode isn't native on-disk or Josiah cross-network (which stores and

[Python-Dev] documenting things [Was: Re: Proposal: defaultdict]

2006-02-20 Thread Bengt Richter
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:01:02 +, Paul Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/19/06, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are missing the rationale of the PEP process. The point is *not* documentation. The point of the PEP process is to channel and collect discussion, so that the BDFL

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Adam Olsen
On 2/20/06, Aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2006, Josiah Carlson wrote: I agree, there is nothing perfect. But at least in all of my use-cases, and the majority of the ones I've seen 'in the wild', my previous post provided an implementation that worked precisely like

Re: [Python-Dev] bdist_* to stdlib?

2006-02-20 Thread Jan Claeys
Op vr, 17-02-2006 te 23:22 +0100, schreef Martin v. Löwis: That, in turn, is because nobody is so short of disk space that you really *have* to share /usr/share across architectures, I can see diskless thin clients that boot from flash memory doing things like that? (E.g. having documentation

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [GvR] Alternative A: add a new method to the dict type with the semantics of __getattr__ from the last proposal Did you mean __getitem__? Yes, sorry, I meant __getitem__. -- --Guido van Rossum (home page:

[Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Jim Jewett
Adam Olsen asked: ... d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? It is an improvement over setdefault, because it doesn't always evaluate the expensive func. (But why should every call have to pass in the function, when it is a property of the dictionary?) It doesn't actually *solve*

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: [GvR] I'm not convinced by the argument that __contains__ should always return True Me either. I cannot think of a more useless behavior or one more likely to have unexpected consequences. Besides, as Josiah pointed out, it is

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Steven Bethard
Guido van Rossum wrote: Alternative A: add a new method to the dict type with the semantics of __getattr__ from the last proposal, using default_factory if not None (except on_missing is inlined). I'm not certain I understood this right but (after s/__getattr__/__getitem__) this seems to

[Python-Dev] Simple CPython stack overflow.

2006-02-20 Thread David Wilson
Just noticed this and wondered if it came under the Python should never crash mantra. Should sys.getrecursionlimit() perhaps be taken into account somewhere? D = {'a': None} for i in xrange(15): ... D = {'a': D} ... D {'a': {'a': {'a': {'a': {'a': {'a': {'a':

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Josiah Carlson
Adam Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you say, for the record (since nobody else seems to care), if d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? It doesn't work for the multiset/accumulation case: dd[key] += 1 - Josiah ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Simple CPython stack overflow.

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
Yes, this is the type of thing we've been struggling with for years. There used to be way more of these. I can't guarantee it'll be fixed with priority (it's mostly of the then don't do that type) but please do file a bug so someone with inclination can fix it. The same happens for deeply

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guido van Rossum wrote: Alternative A: add a new method to the dict type with the semantics of [__getitem__] from the last proposal, using default_factory if not None (except on_missing is inlined). I'm not certain I understood this

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Crutcher Dunnavant
Sorry to chime in so late, but why are we setting a value when the key isn't defined? It seems there are many situations where you want: a) default values, and b) the ability to determine if a value was defined. There are many times that I want d[key] to give me a value even when it isn't

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Terry Reedy
Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Terry Reedy wrote: With a couple of more machines added, should there be two separate pages for trunk and 2.4 builds? Or do most checkins affect both? I'd like to avoid this, assuming that people only look at the

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Crutcher Dunnavant
I'm thinking something mutch closer to this (note default_factory gets the key): def on_missing(self, key): if self.default_factory is not None: value = self.default_factory(key) if self.on_missing_define_key: self[key] = value return value raise KeyError(key) On 2/20/06,

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Aahz
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006, Adam Olsen wrote: On 2/20/06, Aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2006, Josiah Carlson wrote: I agree, there is nothing perfect. But at least in all of my use-cases, and the majority of the ones I've seen 'in the wild', my previous post provided an

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Josiah Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you say, for the record (since nobody else seems to care), if d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? It doesn't work for the multiset/accumulation case: dd[key] += 1 This is

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Michael Foord
Manuzhai wrote: No; nobody volunteered a machine yet (plus the hand-holding that is always necessary with Windows). What exactly is needed for this? Does it need to be a machine dedicated to this stuff, or could I just run the tests once every day or so when I feel like it and have

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Ian Bicking
Alex Martelli wrote: I prefer this approach over subclassing. The mental load from an additional method is less than the load from a separate type (even a subclass). Also, avoidance of invariant issues is a big plus. Besides, if this allows setdefault() to be deprecated, it becomes an

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Ian Bicking
Steven Bethard wrote: Alternative A: add a new method to the dict type with the semantics of __getattr__ from the last proposal, using default_factory if not None (except on_missing is inlined). I'm not certain I understood this right but (after s/__getattr__/__getitem__) this seems to

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Ian Bicking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be deprecated in 2.*, or start deprecating in 3.0? 3.0 will have no backwards compatibility allowances. Whenever someone says remove this in 3.0 they mean exactly that. There will be too many incompatibilities in 3.0 to be bothered with

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: ... You don't need a new feature for that use case; d[k] = d.get(k, 0) + 1 is perfectly fine there and hard to improve upon. I see d[k]+=1 as a substantial improvement -- conceptually more direct, I've now seen one more k than I had

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Aahz wrote: ... Can you say, for the record (since nobody else seems to care), if d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? Because I haven't been reading this thread all that closely, you'll have to remind me what this means. Roughly the same

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Ian Bicking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, is default_factory=list threadsafe in the same way .setdefault is? That is, you can safely do this from multiple threads: d.setdefault(key, []).append(value) I believe this is safe with very few caveats -- setdefault itself is

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 20, 2006, at 12:33 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: ... You don't need a new feature for that use case; d[k] = d.get(k, 0) + 1 is perfectly fine there and hard to improve upon. I see d[k]+=1 as a substantial improvement --

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Martin For an example where base64 is *not* necessarily Martin ASCII-encoded, see the binary data type in XML Martin Schema. There, base64 is embedded into an XML document, Martin and uses the encoding of the entire XML document. As a Martin

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Ian Bicking
Guido van Rossum wrote: Why are you so keen on using a dictionary to share data between threads that may both modify it? IMO this is asking for trouble -- the advice about sharing data between threads is always to use the Queue module. I use them often for a shared caches. But yeah, it's

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Aahz
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006, Alex Martelli wrote: On Feb 20, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Aahz wrote: ... Can you say, for the record (since nobody else seems to care), if d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? Because I haven't been reading this thread all that closely, you'll have to

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Guido van Rossum wrote: They don't; I think a separate page would be a fine idea. Ok, I have now split this into three pages. FWIW, it looks like all the sample templates are still wasting a lot of horizontal space in the first two columns the second is almost always empty. Perhaps the

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Steve Holden wrote: All formats would be improved of the headers could be made to float at the top of the page as scrolling took place. Can this be done in CSS? If so, contributions are welcome. If not, can somebody prepare a modified page with the necessary changes (preferably only additional

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Georg Brandl
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Steve Holden wrote: All formats would be improved of the headers could be made to float at the top of the page as scrolling took place. Can this be done in CSS? If so, contributions are welcome. Not as it is. The big table would have to be split so that there is one

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing Non-Unicode Support?

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Note that this does not mean that we should forget about memory consumption issues. It's just that if there's only marginal interest in certain special builds of Python, I don't see the requirement for the Python core developers to maintain them. Well, the cost of Unicode

Re: [Python-Dev] bdist_* to stdlib?

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Jan Claeys wrote: That, in turn, is because nobody is so short of disk space that you really *have* to share /usr/share across architectures, I can see diskless thin clients that boot from flash memory doing things like that? (E.g. having documentation and header files and other

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Michael Foord wrote: Has a machine been volunteered ? Not yet. I have a spare machine and an always on connection. Would the 'right' development tools be needed ? (In the case of Microsoft they are a touch expensive I believe.) Any build process would do. I would prefer to see the

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Steven Bethard
I wrote: # I want to do ``dd[item] += 1`` Guido van Rossum wrote: You don't need a new feature for that use case; d[k] = d.get(k, 0) + 1 is perfectly fine there and hard to improve upon. Alex Martelli wrote: I see d[k]+=1 as a substantial improvement -- conceptually more direct, I've now

[Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I have now produces a snapshot of a Win64 build for AMD64 processors (also known as EM64T or x64); this is different from IA-64 (which is also known as Itanium)... Anyway, the binaries are http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/python-2.5.13199.amd64.msi This is from today's trunk. If

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Brett Cannon
On 2/20/06, Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote: # I want to do ``dd[item] += 1`` Guido van Rossum wrote: You don't need a new feature for that use case; d[k] = d.get(k, 0) + 1 is perfectly fine there and hard to improve upon. Alex Martelli wrote: I see d[k]+=1 as a

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Dan Gass
On 2/20/06, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An alternative is to have two possible attributes:d.default_factory = listord.default_value = 0with an exception being raised when both are defined (the test is done when theattribute is created, not when the lookup is performed). Why not

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Raymond Hettinger
[Steven Bethard] * Should default_factory be an argument to the constructor? The three answers I see: - No. I'm not a big fan of this answer. Since the whole point of creating a defaultdict type is to provide a default, requiring two statements (the constructor call and the

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Steven Bethard
On 2/20/06, Dan Gass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not have the factory function take the key being looked up as an argument? Seems like there would be uses to customize the default based on the key. It also forces you to handle list factory functions and constant factory functions (amongst

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Brett Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While #3 is my preferred solution as well, it does pose a Liskov violation if this is a direct dict subclass instead of storing a dict internally (can't remember the name of the design pattern that does this). But I think it is good to have

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Dan Gass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not have the factory function take the key being looked up as an argument? This was considered and rejected already. You can already customize based on the key by overriding on_missing() [*]. If the factory were to take a key argument, we

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Greg Ewing
Guido van Rossum wrote: I see two alternatives. Have you considered the third alternative that's been mentioned -- a wrapper? The issue of __contains__ etc. could be sidestepped by not giving the wrapper a __contains__ method at all. If you want to do an 'in' test you do it on the underlying

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Michael Foord
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Michael Foord wrote: Has a machine been volunteered ? Not yet. I have a spare machine and an always on connection. Would the 'right' development tools be needed ? (In the case of Microsoft they are a touch expensive I believe.) Any build

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Josiah Carlson
Michael Foord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Any build process would do. I would prefer to see the official tools on the buildbot (i.e. VS.NET 2003), I can get a free academic license for VS.NET 2003 professional with my university (MSDNAA), and I've also got a Windows

Re: [Python-Dev] problem with genexp

2006-02-20 Thread Jiwon Seo
Regarding this Grammar change; (last October) from argument: [test '=' ] test [gen_for] to argument: test [gen_for] | test '=' test ['(' gen_for ')'] - to raise error for bar(a = i for i in range(10)) ) I think we should change it to argument: test [gen_for] | test '='

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Greg Ewing
Brett Cannon wrote: While #3 is my preferred solution as well, it does pose a Liskov violation if this is a direct dict subclass I'm not sure we should be too worried about that. Inheritance in Python has always been more about implementation than interface, so Liskov doesn't really apply in

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-02-20 Thread Trent Mick
[Martin v. Loewis wrote] If you want to build extensions for this build using distutils, you need to ... 2. open an AMD64 retail shell ... It might be possible to drop 2) some day, but finding the SDK from the registry is really tricky. Look for: def find_platform_sdk_dir() here:

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Delaney, Timothy (Tim)
Greg Ewing wrote: In other words, just because A inherits from B in Python isn't meant to imply that an A is a drop-in replacement for a B. Hmm - this is interesting. I'm not arguing Liskov violations or anything ... However, *because* Python uses duck typing, I tend to feel that subclasses

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot is all green

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Josiah Carlson wrote: If you're up for it, I'm up for it. It'll take me a bit to get the software on the machine. Want me to ping you when I get the toolset installed? Sure! That should work fine. It would be best if the buildbot would run with the environment variables all set up, so that

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Delaney, Timothy (Tim) wrote: However, *because* Python uses duck typing, I tend to feel that subclasses in Python *should* be drop-in replacements. If it's not a drop-in replacement, then it should probably not subclass, but just use duck typing (probably by wrapping). Inheritance is more

Re: [Python-Dev] s/bytes/octet/ [Was:Re: bytes.from_hex() [Was: PEP 332 revival in coordination with pep 349?]]

2006-02-20 Thread Ron Adam
Bengt Richter wrote: On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:59:38 +0100, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thinking about bytes recently, it occurs to me that bytes are really not intrinsically numeric in nature. They don't necessarily represent uint8's. E.g., a binary

Re: [Python-Dev] Win64 AMD64 (aka x64) binaries available64

2006-02-20 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Trent Mick wrote: Look for: def find_platform_sdk_dir() here: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pywin32/pywin32/setup.py?view=markup That is the best code I know for doing that. Right; I was planning something similar (although I would probably hard-code the 2003 SP1 registry

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: ... - Yes and it should be the only constructor argument. This is my ... While #3 is my preferred solution as well, it does pose a Liskov violation if this is a direct dict subclass instead of storing a dict How so? Liskov's

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Raymond Hettinger
[Alex] I see d[k]+=1 as a substantial improvement -- conceptually more direct, I've now seen one more k than I had seen before. [Guido] Yes, I now agree. This means that I'm withdrawing proposal A (new method) and championing only B (a subclass that implements __getitem__() calling

[Python-Dev] buildbot vs. Windows

2006-02-20 Thread Aahz
If you're willing to commit to running a buildbot, and the only thing preventing you is shelling out $$$ to Microsoft, send me e-mail. I'll compile a list to send to the PSF and we'll either poke Microsoft to provide some more free licenses or pay for it ourselves. This is what the PSF is for!

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 20, 2006, at 5:05 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: [Alex] I see d[k]+=1 as a substantial improvement -- conceptually more direct, I've now seen one more k than I had seen before. [Guido] Yes, I now agree. This means that I'm withdrawing proposal A (new method) and championing only B (a

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Crutcher Dunnavant
in two ways: 1) dict.get doesn't work for object dicts or in exec/eval contexts, and 2) dict.get requires me to generate the default value even if I'm not going to use it, a process which may be expensive. On 2/20/06, Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Crutcher Dunnavant ] There are

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 2/20/06, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [stuff with typos] Here's the proofread version: I have a patch ready that implements this. I've assigned it to Raymond for review. I'm just reusing the same SF patch as before: http://python.org/sf/1433928 . One subtlety: for maximal

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Delaney, Timothy (Tim)
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Delaney, Timothy (Tim) wrote: However, *because* Python uses duck typing, I tend to feel that subclasses in Python *should* be drop-in replacements. If it's not a drop-in replacement, then it should probably not subclass, but just use duck typing (probably by

Re: [Python-Dev] readline compilarion fails on OSX

2006-02-20 Thread Bob Ippolito
On Feb 20, 2006, at 6:48 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On OSX (10.4.4) the readline module in the svn HEAD fails compilation as follows. This is particularly strange since the buildbot is green for OSX... What could be up with this? building 'readline' extension -lots of build junk- In

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot vs. Windows

2006-02-20 Thread Tim Peters
[Aahz] If you're willing to commit to running a buildbot, and the only thing preventing you is shelling out $$$ to Microsoft, send me e-mail. I'll compile a list to send to the PSF and we'll either poke Microsoft to provide some more free licenses or pay for it ourselves. This is what the

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Please do take a look. It is the only way: If you were to Martin embed base64 *bytes* into character data content of an XML Martin element, the resulting XML file might not be well-formed Martin anymore (if the encoding of

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Adam Olsen
On 2/20/06, Jim Jewett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Olsen asked: ... d.getorset(key, func) would work in your use cases? It is an improvement over setdefault, because it doesn't always evaluate the expensive func. (But why should every call have to pass in the function, when it is a

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 12:53 +0100, Pierre Barbier de Reuille wrote: Guido Over lunch with Alex Martelli, he proposed that a subclass of Guido dict with this behavior (but implemented in C) would be a good Guido addition to the language. I agree that .setdefault() is a

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Bob Ippolito
On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:25 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Please do take a look. It is the only way: If you were to Martin embed base64 *bytes* into character data content of an XML Martin element, the resulting XML file

[Python-Dev] PEP for Better Control of Nested Lexical Scopes

2006-02-20 Thread Almann T. Goo
I am considering developing a PEP for enabling a mechanism to assign to free variables in a closure (nested function). My rationale is that with the advent of PEP 227 , Python has proper nested lexical scopes, but can have undesirable behavior (especially with new developers) when a user makes

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 11:09 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote: Thanks for all the constructive feedback. Here are some responses and a new proposal. - Yes, I'd like to kill setdefault() in 3.0 if not sooner. A worthy goal, but not possible unless you want to break existing code. I don't think

Re: [Python-Dev] readline compilarion fails on OSX

2006-02-20 Thread skip
Guido But shouldn't we try to fix setup.py to detect this situation Guido instead of making loud clattering noises? Here's a first-cut try at a setup.py patch: http://python.org/sf/1435651 Unfortunately, I don't think distutils provides a clean way to detect symbols the way

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: defaultdict

2006-02-20 Thread Josiah Carlson
Adam Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I'm beginning to think we shouldn't be comparing them. defaultdict is a powerful but heavyweight option, intended for complicated behavior. Check out Guido's patch. It's not that heavyweight, and its intended behavior is to make some operations

Re: [Python-Dev] defaultdict proposal round three

2006-02-20 Thread Tim Peters
[Guido] ... What's the practical use case for not wanting __contains__() to function? I don't know. I have practical use cases for wanting __contains__() to function, but there's been no call for those. For an example, think of any real use ;-) For example, I often use dicts to represent

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP for Better Control of Nested Lexical Scopes

2006-02-20 Thread Josiah Carlson
Almann T. Goo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like the community's opinion if there is enough out there that think this would be a worthwile endevour--or if there is already an initiative that I missed. Please let me know your questions, comments. -1 Mechanisms which rely on manipulating

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP for Better Control of Nested Lexical Scopes

2006-02-20 Thread Almann T. Goo
Mechanisms which rely on manipulating variables within closures or nested scopes to function properly can be elegant, but I've not yet seen one that *really* is. This really isn't a case for or against what I'm proposing since we can already do this in today's Python with mutable variables in

Re: [Python-Dev] Memory Error the right error for coding cookie promise violation?

2006-02-20 Thread Alex Martelli
On Feb 21, 2006, at 6:53 AM, Bengt Richter wrote: Perhaps a more informative message would be nice. Here's an easy way to trigger it: compile(#-*- coding: ascii -*-\nprint 'ab%c'\n%0x80, '','exec') Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? MemoryError Definitely