On 7/19/2011 7:34 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
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There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It has quite a few external
On Jul 20, 3:34 am, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
On 7/19/2011 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Tim Roberts wrote:
I don't think your glibness is justified. There is a legitimate appeal to
this notion. The fact is that MANY APIs can be completely and adequately
described by HTML.
My brain raises a TypeError on that statement.
John Nagle wrote:
There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It still uses Tcl/Tk stuff, which is un-Pythonic.
You must be thinking of something else. My PyGUI has
On 07/20/2011 07:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread
because it's considered rude. Thank you.
Too funny. Says who? Changing the subject line to reflect the
direction this part of the thread (a branch if you will) is going is
definitely
On 2011-07-24, John Nagle na...@animats.com wrote:
On 7/19/2011 7:34 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
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There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
On 7/24/2011 8:51 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:
Now replying to an existing thread to start an entirely new, unrelated
thread is definitely rude.
Rude or not, it tends to be unproductive. If someone posted Help with
threading internals here, it could well not be seen by the appropriate
people,
Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
sturlamolden wrote:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
everything should be a web page.
I don't think your glibness is justified. There
Tim Roberts wrote:
Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
sturlamolden wrote:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
everything should be a web page.
I don't think your
On 23Jul2011 22:21, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
| Tim Roberts wrote:
| Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
| sturlamolden wrote:
| Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
| different, such as HTML5?
|
| I hope not! HTML is great for web
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:
And then you have the cross platform nirvana. Except for the browsers'
various differences and bugs etc etc...
The platform ceases to be Windows/Linux/Mac, ceases to be Qt/GTK/Tk,
and instead becomes Webkit/Gecko/Trident.
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
Python has a GIL.
Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
PyPy has a GIL, too.
There's been talk of removing PyPy's GIL using transactional memory though.
--
On 22 Jul, 02:34, Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration -- there's only
one major dependency on each platform, and it's a very
widely used one (currently PyObjC/PyGTK/PyWin32). And
I'm thinking about ways to reduce the dependencies further,
On 21 Jul, 16:52, Kevin Walzer k...@codebykevin.com wrote:
I bet that other scripting languages would
piggyback on top of it (Lua or Ruby bindings for Python's GUI toolkit,
anyone?) because doing that is less work than writing your own toolkit
from scratch.
No doubt about that.
Lua has a
On 7/20/11 9:05 AM, rantingrick wrote:
On Jul 19, 9:44 pm, Kevin Walzerk...@codebykevin.com wrote:
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Again, so? This isn't applicable to Tk, by the way. It's a GUI toolkit
specifically designed for
sturlamolden wrote:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
I hope not! HTML is great for web pages, but not
everything should be a web page.
--
Greg
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Andrew Berg wrote:
It has quite a few external dependencies, though (different dependencies
for each platform, so it requires a lot to be cross-platform).
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration -- there's only
one major dependency on each platform, and it's a very
widely used one (currently
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
collector.
Perhaps
Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
Python has a GIL.
Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
PyPy has a GIL, too.
Stefan
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On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:20 pm Stefan Behnel wrote:
Steven D'Aprano, 20.07.2011 06:28:
Python has a GIL.
Except for Jython, IronPython and PyPy.
PyPy has a GIL, too.
Isn't it optional though?
--
Steven
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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On 2011.07.20 02:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Isn't it optional though?
No.
http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#does-pypy-have-a-gil-why
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CPython 3.2.1 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17592 | Thunderbird 5.0
PGP/GPG Public Key ID:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:51 pm Andrew Berg wrote:
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On 2011.07.20 02:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Isn't it optional though?
No.
http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#does-pypy-have-a-gil-why
Ah, my mistake, thank you. I knew PyPy had
On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
collector.
I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
I've
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:12 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
I've no idea what this means. I happily use pygtk.
On 07/19/2011 09:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
How I would prefer the GUI library to be, if based on native
widgets:
http://xkcd.com/927/
:-)
-tkc
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Wed, 2011-07-20 at 11:59 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote:
On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
5. No particular GUI thread synchronization is needed -- Python has a
GIL.
That's where you're wrong: the GIL is not a feature of Python. It is an
unfortunate implementation detail of current
sturlamolden, 20.07.2011 04:12:
Or should modern deskop apps be written with something completely
different, such as HTML5?
Depends. For many desktop apps, this is actually quite workable, with the
additional advantage of having an Internet-/Intranet-ready implementation
available in case
Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de writes:
On 20/07/11 04:12, sturlamolden wrote:
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction (wxPython). Parent-child
ownership might be smart in C++, but in Python we have a garbage
collector.
I
On Jul 19, 9:12 pm, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
This fact bugs me but no one is willing to put forth an effort to make
things happen. So we are stuck with what we have now.
3. Unpythonic
On Jul 19, 9:44 pm, Kevin Walzer k...@codebykevin.com wrote:
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Again, so? This isn't applicable to Tk, by the way. It's a GUI toolkit
specifically designed for scripting languages.
Tk is
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
PyGTK with GLADE is the easier to use, but a bit awkward looking on
Windows and Mac. (Not to mention the number of dependencies that must
be installed, inclusing a GTK runtime.)
Really, while Swing
On 2011-07-20, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
5. No particular GUI thread synchronization is needed -- Python has a
GIL.
That's where you're wrong: the GIL is not a feature of Python. It is an
unfortunate implementation detail of current versions of CPython. (and
PyPy, apparently)
On 2011-07-20, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote:
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:12 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a
sturlamolden wrote:
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable to be required to manually call some sort of
destroy() method to tell the toolkit what you no longer want the user to
see
Yes, but not to avoid a memory leak.
OTOH, if you intend to
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
Okay, I haven't used SWT yet: manual memory management? Java is GC!
It is perfectly reasonable to be required to manually call some sort of
destroy() method to tell the toolkit what you no longer want the user to
see: firstly, you have
On 20 Jul, 16:17, Mel mwil...@the-wire.com wrote:
OTOH, if you intend to re-use the Dialog object, it's not a memory leak.
It cannot be reused if you don't have any references pointing to it.
Sure it is nice to have dialogs that can be hidden and re-displayed,
but only those that can be
On 20 Jul, 13:04, Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org wrote:
3. Instances of extension types can clean themselves up on
deallocation. No parent-child ownership model to mess things up. No
manual clean-up. Python does all the reference counting we need.
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. UI's
On 20 Jul, 13:08, Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote:
http://xkcd.com/927/
:-)
Indeed.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Jul 20, 9:27 am, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:
On 20 Jul, 16:17, Mel mwil...@the-wire.com wrote:
OTOH, if you intend to re-use the Dialog object, it's not a memory leak.
It cannot be reused if you don't have any references pointing to it.
Sure it is nice to have dialogs that
On 20/07/11 15:47, sturlamolden wrote:
On 20 Jul, 11:59, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
I wonder - what do you think of GTK+?
PyGTK with GLADE is the easier to use, but a bit awkward looking on
Windows and Mac. (Not to mention the number of dependencies that must
be installed,
On 20 Jul, 17:21, Thomas Jollans t...@jollybox.de wrote:
Don't know about Mac, I was under the impression that GTK was fine on
Windows these days.
GTK looks awful on Windows, requires a dozen of installers (non of
which comes from a single source), is not properly stabile (nobody
cares?), and
On 20 Jul, 06:28, Steven D'Aprano steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
feel?
Python 2.7.2 |EPD 7.1-1 (64-bit)| (default, Jul 3 2011, 15:34:33)
[MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type packages, demo or
On Jul 19, 11:28 pm, Steven D'Aprano steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
feel?
Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and
On Jul 20, 10:32 am, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and never
will. Stick to what you know please.
Allow me.
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled
On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com wrote:
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
The widget set is limited compared to GTK or Qt, though it has the
most common GUI controls, and it does not look
Excerpts from Phlip's message of Wed Jul 20 16:58:08 -0400 2011:
On Jul 20, 10:32am, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
Steven, you have no buisness offering advice on Tkinter since you
yourself have proclaimed that YOU NEVER used the module and never
will. Stick to what you know
On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com wrote:
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
And using it with OpenGL has been impossible since Python 2.2 (or
whatever).
--
On Jul 20, 3:13 pm, sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no wrote:
On 20 Jul, 22:58, Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com wrote:
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
The widget set is limited compared to GTK or Qt,
On 21 Jul, 00:52, Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com wrote:
Oh, and you can TDD it, too...
No, I can't TDD with Tkinter. All my tests fail when there is no
OpenGL support (Togl is gone). For TDD to work, the tests must have a
chance of passing.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com writes:
Tkinter sucks because it looks like an enfeebled Motif 1980s dawn-of-
GUIs scratchy window with grooves and lines everywhere.
Applications have been written that look like that, sure. Many of them
were *written* in the 1980s and 1990s, so the wonder is not how
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
Right...do not change the subject because it's considered rude.
Change it because the topic drifted from
RE: *Tim Chase changes topic and talks smack*
On Jul 20, 8:38 pm, Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote:
On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered
On Jul 20, 6:17 pm, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
No it isn't. Rambling off on a new topic under the wrong subject is
rude.
--
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
The old reinvent the wheel argument is only valid when wheels
already exists. Currently we have triangles (or maybe pentagons) but
no wheels.
No, currently we have a small handful of people who feel the wheels
are triangles but have done nothing more
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
What about the etiquette of staying on topic?
Such as raising your personal opinion of online etiquette in a thread
on GUI toolkits?
As always, there's what you say, and there's what you do, and never
the twain shall meet.
--
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:34 pm Phlip wrote:
On Jul 20, 6:17 pm, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
Please everyone, do not change the subject of someone's thread because
it's considered rude. Thank you.
No it isn't. Rambling off on a new topic
On 20Jul2011 19:06, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote:
|
| RE: *Tim Chase changes topic and talks smack*
|
| On Jul 20, 8:38 pm, Tim Chase python.l...@tim.thechases.com wrote:
| On 07/20/2011 08:17 PM, rantingrick wrote:
|
| RE: *Ben Finney changes thread subject*
|
| Please
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted C++
objects (PyQt). Manual dialog destruction
On 7/19/2011 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
3. Unpythonic memory management: Python references to deleted
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There's PyGUI, which, at a glance, fits whit what you want. Looks like
it uses OpenGL and native GUI facilities.
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/
It has quite a few external dependencies, though (different dependencies
for
OK, I'll bite...
On 7/19/11 10:12 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
1. Designed for other languages, particularly C++, tcl and Java.
So? Doing a GUI toolkit is a hard project.
2. Bloatware. Qt and wxWidgets are C++ application frameworks. (Python
has a standard library!)
Again, so? This isn't
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:12 pm sturlamolden wrote:
What is wrong with them:
[...]
4. They might look bad (Tkinter, Swing with Jython).
Have you tried Tkinter version 8.0 or better, which offers a native look and
feel?
5. All projects to write a Python GUI toolkit die before they are
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