Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

[Daniele Terdina via Ql-Users]

In case you are using a ROM expansion, latest versions of Minerva have trouble 
with that.

Daniele

From: Ql-Users  on behalf of Martyn Hill via 
Ql-Users 
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 6:51 AM
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Cc: Martyn Hill
Subject: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92
*or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over
for /many /an hour...

Is anyone able to contact the QView team to ask, or else has a copy to
hand of either version of source code and has permission to release to a
enthusiastic tester?

Whilst I can continue using Min v1.92 +TK2 with full & reliable
networking, my aim is to run the latest Minerva**available - possibly
after hacking v1.98 or TK2 to restore /full /QLNet
compatibility**between them**- see below.*
*

*Context:*
In my on-going exploration and testing of the network on the BBQL, I
discovered an apparent incompatibility between Minerva v1.97 and 1.98
whenever TK2 (any version) is loaded when it comes to using LBYTES
specifically. Other uses of the NET driver work as more-or-less as
expected (OPEN, LOAD, SBYTES, etc), albeit with some additional latency
sometimes observed.

I posted a thread on the forum a while back but, at that time, I had
reservations about the hardware state of my own 2x QL motherboards (an
Iss7 and an Iss5 - both 'hacked' quite a bit.)

Since then, I have tested with other QL motherboards (Iss6 and another
Iss5 - no hacks) and made adjustments to the TK2 code to validate and
now have a degree of confidence that there really is something odd with
Minerva + TK2 /after /Minerva v1.92.

Specifically, when receiving via LBYTES (and SBYTES at the remote end),
Minerva 1.97+ on its own receives perfectly, but once the NET driver is
effectively replaced with TK2 (upto v2.23), issuing LBYTES will
completely hang the /receiving /QL - immediately and regardless of
whether the sending end has even started.

It doesn't seem to make a jot of difference what is running at the
/sending/ end - nor which issue of motherboard are at either end...

ROM (Rx)w/o TK2with TK2
-     ---
JS and MG  OK  OK
Min v1.89   OK  OK
Min v1.92   OK  OK
Min v1.97   OK  Hangs on LBYTES
Min v1.98   OK  Hangs on LBYTES

(I don't know how well that table will render...)

I have already hacked the TK2 (v2.23) NET driver source to allow both
the Minerva NET and the TK2 NET driver (renamed to 'TNT') to co-exist,
and also to allow both Minerva's LBYTES and TK2's equivalent procedure
(again, renamed.)

When using the Minerva NET driver, but still with TK2 loaded, normal
service resumes. The moment LBYTES is issued (again on Min v1.97/1.98)
but against the renamed 'TNT' driver, the receiver hangs again. As one
might expect from the above, Minerva v1.92 and 1.89 execute LBYTES
perfectly well using /either /NET or the TNT variant.

I suspect some combination of register or stack usage/dependencies that
are no longer as TK2 expects /after /Min v1.92, but after literally
man-days of cross comparing the various source codes available, I can't
nail it down and its bugging me :-)

What I am missing is a decent disassembly of one of the 'working'
Minerva versions, or better still, the source. Hence my request.

If I can't lay my hands on the source, I'll resort to running DEA or
IDIS against the Minerva v1.98 ROM, but that's tedious as hell :-)

Any takers?

Regards,
*Martyn Hill.*

--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and 
those who don't."

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Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

[pjwitte via Ql-Users]

Ok.
On 25/02/2018 21:05, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi Per

That would be excellent - thank you!

I'll rely on Google to translate what I can't decipher of the German.

I'll PM you via the QL Forum with my personal email, if that's alright.

Thanks again!

M.


On 25/02/2018 18:56, pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:
I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of 
any interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not 
tried to reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it.


Per
On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva 
v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have 
poured over for /many /an hour... 

<>
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Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

[Martyn Hill via Ql-Users]

Hi Per

That would be excellent - thank you!

I'll rely on Google to translate what I can't decipher of the German.

I'll PM you via the QL Forum with my personal email, if that's alright.

Thanks again!

M.


On 25/02/2018 18:56, pjwitte via Ql-Users wrote:
I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of any 
interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not tried to 
reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it.


Per
On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva 
v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have 
poured over for /many /an hour... 

<>
___
QL-Users Mailing List


--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those 
who don't."

___
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Re: [Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

[pjwitte via Ql-Users]

I have a commented (in German!) disassembly of V1.89, if thats of any 
interest. It seems quite thorough and detailed, but Ive not tried to 
reassemble it. Let me know where to send it if you want it.


Per
On 25/02/2018 15:51, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva 
v1.92 *or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have 
poured over for /many /an hour... 

<>
___
QL-Users Mailing List

Re: [Ql-Users] New hardware announcement...

[Martyn Hill via Ql-Users]

Thanks - just heard from DP via the Forum!

Can't wait to see this project come to fruition :-)

M.
On 25/02/2018 15:46, Graeme Gregory via Ql-Users wrote:

He did, you were a few hours late 

G

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, at 2:53 PM, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi Dave

...and, did you? I was late joining the online Chat, so might have
missed it :-(

M.


On 20/02/2018 21:45, Dave Park via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi all,

I'll be making a new hardware announcement this Saturday 24th at 8pm UK
time.

To join in, see the videos/photos and ask questions, join us on the QL
Forum chatroom at 8pm.

This new piece of hardware is not a small thing*, it is not a clone of
existing hardware but is completely new hardware for the BBQL.

To get to the QL Forum chatroom, simply surf to qlforum.co.uk, then click
on "Online Chat" at the top of the page, choose a screen name, and click
join. Anything you type will be seen by everyone.


​*ok, it IS a small thing. 100x63mm, but that includes a through-connector,
but it packs a punch for the size!


--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't."

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--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those 
who don't."

___
QL-Users Mailing List

Re: [Ql-Users] New hardware announcement...

[Graeme Gregory via Ql-Users]

He did, you were a few hours late 

G

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, at 2:53 PM, Martyn Hill via Ql-Users wrote:
> Hi Dave
> 
> ...and, did you? I was late joining the online Chat, so might have 
> missed it :-(
> 
> M.
> 
> 
> On 20/02/2018 21:45, Dave Park via Ql-Users wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'll be making a new hardware announcement this Saturday 24th at 8pm UK
> > time.
> >
> > To join in, see the videos/photos and ask questions, join us on the QL
> > Forum chatroom at 8pm.
> >
> > This new piece of hardware is not a small thing*, it is not a clone of
> > existing hardware but is completely new hardware for the BBQL.
> >
> > To get to the QL Forum chatroom, simply surf to qlforum.co.uk, then click
> > on "Online Chat" at the top of the page, choose a screen name, and click
> > join. Anything you type will be seen by everyone.
> >
> >
> > ​*ok, it IS a small thing. 100x63mm, but that includes a through-connector,
> > but it packs a punch for the size!
> >
> 
> -- 
> "There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary 
> and those who don't."
> 
> ___
> QL-Users Mailing List
___
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Re: [Ql-Users] New hardware announcement...

[Martyn Hill via Ql-Users]

Hi Dave

...and, did you? I was late joining the online Chat, so might have 
missed it :-(


M.


On 20/02/2018 21:45, Dave Park via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi all,

I'll be making a new hardware announcement this Saturday 24th at 8pm UK
time.

To join in, see the videos/photos and ask questions, join us on the QL
Forum chatroom at 8pm.

This new piece of hardware is not a small thing*, it is not a clone of
existing hardware but is completely new hardware for the BBQL.

To get to the QL Forum chatroom, simply surf to qlforum.co.uk, then click
on "Online Chat" at the top of the page, choose a screen name, and click
join. Anything you type will be seen by everyone.


​*ok, it IS a small thing. 100x63mm, but that includes a through-connector,
but it packs a punch for the size!



--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those 
who don't."

___
QL-Users Mailing List

[Ql-Users] Source code availability for Minerva v1.92 or v1.89?

[Martyn Hill via Ql-Users]

Hi everyone!

I'm looking to get a hold of the *source *for either of *Minerva v1.92 
*or *v1.89*. We have v1.98 source available, which I have poured over 
for /many /an hour...


Is anyone able to contact the QView team to ask, or else has a copy to 
hand of either version of source code and has permission to release to a 
enthusiastic tester?


Whilst I can continue using Min v1.92 +TK2 with full & reliable 
networking, my aim is to run the latest Minerva**available - possibly 
after hacking v1.98 or TK2 to restore /full /QLNet 
compatibility**between them**- see below.*

*

*Context:*
In my on-going exploration and testing of the network on the BBQL, I 
discovered an apparent incompatibility between Minerva v1.97 and 1.98 
whenever TK2 (any version) is loaded when it comes to using LBYTES 
specifically. Other uses of the NET driver work as more-or-less as 
expected (OPEN, LOAD, SBYTES, etc), albeit with some additional latency 
sometimes observed.


I posted a thread on the forum a while back but, at that time, I had 
reservations about the hardware state of my own 2x QL motherboards (an 
Iss7 and an Iss5 - both 'hacked' quite a bit.)


Since then, I have tested with other QL motherboards (Iss6 and another 
Iss5 - no hacks) and made adjustments to the TK2 code to validate and 
now have a degree of confidence that there really is something odd with 
Minerva + TK2 /after /Minerva v1.92.


Specifically, when receiving via LBYTES (and SBYTES at the remote end), 
Minerva 1.97+ on its own receives perfectly, but once the NET driver is 
effectively replaced with TK2 (upto v2.23), issuing LBYTES will 
completely hang the /receiving /QL - immediately and regardless of 
whether the sending end has even started.


It doesn't seem to make a jot of difference what is running at the 
/sending/ end - nor which issue of motherboard are at either end...


ROM (Rx)        w/o TK2    with TK2
-     ---
JS and MG      OK              OK
Min v1.89   OK  OK
Min v1.92   OK  OK
Min v1.97   OK  Hangs on LBYTES
Min v1.98   OK  Hangs on LBYTES

(I don't know how well that table will render...)

I have already hacked the TK2 (v2.23) NET driver source to allow both 
the Minerva NET and the TK2 NET driver (renamed to 'TNT') to co-exist, 
and also to allow both Minerva's LBYTES and TK2's equivalent procedure 
(again, renamed.)


When using the Minerva NET driver, but still with TK2 loaded, normal 
service resumes. The moment LBYTES is issued (again on Min v1.97/1.98) 
but against the renamed 'TNT' driver, the receiver hangs again. As one 
might expect from the above, Minerva v1.92 and 1.89 execute LBYTES 
perfectly well using /either /NET or the TNT variant.


I suspect some combination of register or stack usage/dependencies that 
are no longer as TK2 expects /after /Min v1.92, but after literally 
man-days of cross comparing the various source codes available, I can't 
nail it down and its bugging me :-)


What I am missing is a decent disassembly of one of the 'working' 
Minerva versions, or better still, the source. Hence my request.


If I can't lay my hands on the source, I'll resort to running DEA or 
IDIS against the Minerva v1.98 ROM, but that's tedious as hell :-)


Any takers?

Regards,
*Martyn Hill.*

--
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those 
who don't."

___
QL-Users Mailing List