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Lesbian Fertility Patient Loses To Religious Beliefs ...
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Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
But beating the drum of hate leads to disasters.
True.
But what does beating the drum of love, civility, tolerance, patience
and kindness do?
Hard to tell, as however much happens doesn't seem to get as much
attention.
Maybe an equal time
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
A pattern is developing; there are now three major cases in Europe: one
in
The Netherlands, 'Hammond' in the United Kingdom and 'Green' in Sweden.
The pattern is thus:-
1. This law is introduced
--- Paul Diamond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... All three classified homosexuality as a 'sin',
but were Biblical (if
crude), but with no incitement to violence or
'fighting words'.
(snip)
... It is simply an overt attempt to weaken Judeo
Christian morality for a
new social
What on earth do you mean by anti-American
racism?? - are you suggesting that there is an
American race???
~Rita
--- Larry Darby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh, absolutely anti-American racism is promoted by
the elites, in the
USA and abroad.
(snip)
Brayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
2:30 PM
To: Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
Newsom Michael wrote:
Shouldnt
we be careful in applying American notions of free speech to other cultures and
traditions
Folks: Though for historical reasons the list is generally
open, its aim is mostly to focus on issues that are helpful to legal
academics, and to do so using a relatively academic tone. Asking people
things like What on earth do you mean by [something]? usually isn't
quite consistent
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
Folks: Though for historical reasons the list is generally
open, its aim is mostly to focus on issues that are helpful to legal
academics, and to do so using a relatively academic tone. Asking
Do we reify a document or the ideas in it or the way it is put into practice? The Declaration of Independence has some pretty good ideas and as a historical document is very important and justly respected. As is the US constitution. But both documents have flaws inherent in them, in there
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:37 AM
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
Michael:
The Declaration of Independence is merely a document that is intended to
convey what its
Newsom Michael wrote:
I agree that there is a standard. I just don't find it in the
Declaration. I find the hypocrisy of Jefferson just too much to
stomach. I can't take him seriously. And I don't. Sometimes the
messenger is the message. I'll leave it at that.
I find this highly
for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
Newsom Michael wrote:
I agree that there is a standard. I just don't find it in the
Declaration. I find the hypocrisy of Jefferson just too much to
stomach. I can't take him seriously. And I don't. Sometimes the
messenger
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
I don't accept your premises. I said that sometimes the
message and the messenger are essentially the same. My
position, given that, is entirely logical.
-Original Message-
From: Ed Brayton
]
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
A request has been made for the case links.
1. Hammond report is
a.. Hammond v Department of Public Prosecutions [2004] EWHC 69 (Admin
think that your position might be construed as
hegemonic?
From: Ed Brayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
2:30 PM
To: Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
Newsom Michael wrote:
Shouldnt
we be careful
, 2005 2:36 PM
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
I've certainly heard the argument that Western democracies with
histories of Nazism or Communism might be justified in suppressing Nazi
or Communist speech even if the U.S. might
.
From: Brad M Pardee
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
2:45 PM
To: Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
I was under the
impression that free speech was considered a universal human right, not merely
Newsom Michael wrote:
And, I
assume, others are free to reject
your claims about the Declaration of Independence. (I reject them
because the
supposed rights laid out therein did not apply to my African and
African-American ancestors. I look elsewhere for instruction
Newsom Michael wrote:
Maybe the answer lies in a different understanding of homosexuality, and
perhaps a different set of experiences. I do recall, by the way, that
the Nazis killed homosexuals (the pink triangle).
Indeed they did, and they were wrong to do so. But the only way we may
On 12/1/05, Ed Brayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Newsom Michael wrote:
Maybe the answer lies in a different understanding of homosexuality, and
perhaps a different set of experiences. I do recall, by the way, that
the Nazis killed homosexuals (the pink triangle).
Indeed they did, and they
Samuel V wrote:
They also would have been wrong to kill people who advocated against
homosexuality. They also would have been wrong to lock them up or
fine them.
Agree completely.
I disagree with Professor Newsom as to who the bully is. The
bully is not the Pastor preaching his faith,
In a message dated 12/1/2005 10:58:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Free speech may be a
human right, universal or not, but surely you don’t contend that the right is
utterly absolute without any limit whatsoever, do you? Is there an
absolute right to cry
Newsom Michael wrote:
We disagree
on the moral value of the
Declaration of Independence. I will leave it at that.
The fact that the principle of liberty appears in the Declaration is
irrelevant. If it appeared in a fortune cookie or on a bumper sticker,
it would be no
student fraternity in Vienna.
-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Brayton
Sent: Thursday,
December 01, 2005
6:42
PM
To: Law Religion issues for
Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
Newsom Michael wrote:
We
.
From: Ed Brayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005
3:42 PM
To: Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
Rick Duncan wrote:
This
just in from ADF:
In a
unanimous 5-0 decision, Sweden's
Supreme Court today
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
12:40 PM
To: Law Religion issues for
Law Academics
Subject: RE: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate Crime Rap
Shouldnt we be careful in applying
American notions of free speech to other cultures and traditions? Sweden
may have had good and sufficient reasons for taking
, November 30, 2005 11:30 AM
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Swedish Pastor Beats Hate Crime Rap
Newsom Michael wrote:
Shouldn't we be careful in applying American notions of free speech to
other cultures and traditions? Sweden may have had good and sufficient
reasons
I was under the impression that free speech
was considered a universal human right, not merely an American notion,
regardless of whether governments acknowledge it as such or not.
And I cannot even begin to conceive of a
good and sufficient reason for putting people in jail because
they have
Speech and prosecution for
unjustifiable (insane) laws.
Larry Darby
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Duncan
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:35 PM
To: Law Religion issues for
Law Academics
Subject: Swedish Pastor Beats
Hate
Rick Duncan wrote:
This
just in from ADF:
In a unanimous 5-0 decision, Sweden's Supreme Court today
acquitted a pastor of a "hate crime" for presenting the biblical view
of homosexual behavior in a sermon.
Well I certainly hope that we can all, regardless of our religious
views
Hate speech should be able to be regulated. The problem is finding the right standards and distinguishing between what is to be permitted and what banned. We should be able to enforce some minimal standards of public decency in our discourse. But, I have such little confidence in people in
I agree completely. I actually
wrote a piece about the problems of hate crime legislation a few years
ago myself (http://www.geocities.com/onemanwatching/archive/se292000.html).
William Raspberry (a columnist I rarely find myself agreeing with)
also wrote a column about it as well
But beating the drum of hate leads to disasters.
True.
But what does beating the drum of love, civility, tolerance, patience
and kindness do?
Hard to tell, as however much happens doesn't seem to get as much
attention.
Maybe an equal time for love legislation?
It's not that hate speech is
In a message dated 11/29/2005 4:49:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Better
to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Better to hear allsides than
to drive the noise underground.
And better to be highly suspicious of others who aggrandize the
definitional
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