[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola radios and Zetron 37 (reset timers for frozen controllers)
MTR-2000 repeaters are notorious for issues that require a power reset, less often with the latest version of firmware, but still require reset, there is a service bulletin on this. CJD --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: Re: Motorola radios and Zetron 37 (reset timers for frozen controllers) tracomm tracomm@ wrote: This is a regular issue with many controllers, especially Trident Raiders several Comm Spec units, and Motorola MTR-2000 repeaters. I have yet to find any type of relatively complex software driven uP in controller operation that didn't freeze or fart (lock) up at some point in time. One would hope the mfgr hopefully included some type of dead-man or equivalent software-hardware reset timer. Years ago Comm Spec supplied a small board that reset power to the controller to eliminate the problem. For the TP-3200 Tone/DCS Panel... and they were smart/nice enough to provide the timer daughter-board as a free retrofit. We installed power reset modules on all our repeaters, every 24 hours, The Comm Spec supplied timer cycled more frequent. power is reset to the entire repeater, usually about 3:00 am. Is/was there any reason to cycle power to other portions of the repeater hardware? Joel ag4qc@ wrote: We have 2 repeaters that are more or less the same. One is on 2 meters and the other is on 440. They both exhibit the same problem, they lockup after a while and then need to be power cycled. Q: The repeater hardware (radios)? the Zetron Controller? both? Did/do you test to find out what is locked up (not working)? They ran for years without issue. We have the Instruction manual for the Zentron controller, but nothing on the radios. Joe Loucka -- AG4QC You shouldn't need much in the way of manuals to do the basic go, no-go testing. A received signal should indicate on both the RX Radio and the Zetron front panels. The Zetron should indicate valid tone/dcs codes and the Tx activity should be indicated on both the Zetron and TX Radio front panels. Step two depends on the answer(s) to the above question. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar Simulcast Issue
To get the RF phase accuracy you're implying that is required would mean that everything in the RF path would have to guarantee that phase relationship. That means the same length RF interconnect cables inside the cabinet, same RF feedline length (or full-wavelength multiples thereof), same antenna type, etc. Even if you could guarantee that kind of accuracy at the time of installation, thermal effects would quickly throw it way off (cables expanding/contracting with temperature for example). Not to mention the propagation delay will vary a whole lot with temperature, humidity, etc. Just not gotta happen --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DCFluX Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar Simulcast Issue Well if the transmitters are running at the same frequency but at a different phase it is reasonable to expect that there would be some point where the 2 transmitters are at close to the same power level, but 180 degrees out of phase which should cancel out the receiver or at least make interesting noises. Well, yeah, I know what propagation delay is, but I don't see where the phase of the reference has an effect on anything. Are you thinking that the transmitter's RF carrier needs to be launched with phase coherence at each site? --- Jeff WN3A Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar Simulcast Issue
Optimization of a simulcast system is critical to its proper operation. Not every local Motorola shop has the equipment or experience to perform this activity. I have installed many simulcast systems over the years and it always boiled down to incorrect system optimization (excluding equipment failure of course). If it is a Motorola project a System Technologist (ST) would be assigned along with a project manager. Contact the project manager with your findings and he will assist you in rectifying the problem. Now if it is a local Motorola Shop project then all bets are off. Depending on the status of the shop they may not be able to buy the parts from Motorola to build a Motorola simulcast system. There are other simulcast designs and hardware available but they are not of the Motorola design described by WB0EMU. This is a tried and true design that has been implemented over and over with excellent results.As said below proper Quantar programming, netting, and Mod-comp adjustment are critical. Bill ex Motorola Project Manager In a message dated 6/23/2010 10:20:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, wb0...@arrl.net writes: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wmhpowell w...@... wrote: I'm looking for some Quantar engineering level help re: an interesting simulcast issue. ... Thanks, Bill Powell -- When you say this system was set up and installed by Motorola - does that mean a 'factory direct' Motorola project or a local dealer? Is the baffled tech a shop tech or a Motorola employee [e.g. S.T.]? You say the system is GPS stabilized - do you mean what Motorola refers to as GPS Simulcast? If so, the transmit path would originate at a prime site where voted receive and/or dispatch transmit audio would be routed to a CSCI or USCI, then to an SDA, then to a Premysis TeNSr channel bank into DSM-II cards, then over T-1 paths to each remote site where channel banks with corresponding DSM cards connect to the wideband simulcast Quantar tx inputs. The GPS reference clocks, typically from Trak, provide 5 MHz reference to the Quantar stations and 1PPS timing to the DSM's which automatically time align the transmit audio. This is a proven working product. The hypothesis regarding lack of DC restoration in the modulator would suggest a design issue which is highly unlikely given the number of succcessfully fielded Quantar simulcast systems. If you are going to investigate this issue you should begin with the most current version of the Motorola GPS Simulcast manual: 6881098E65. On the other hand, it this system was implemented by a local dealer using some other form of simulcast distribution such as Harris SynchoCast - there could be any number of issues. In any case - proper Quantar programming, netting, and Mod-comp adjustment are critical. Audio phasing and level optimization is best verified using a DSA [Dynamic Signal Analyzer] such as the Agilent 35670A. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line
For those of you who'd like to see a few different examples of various Simulcast Systems explained. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/case-studies.htm
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR-2000 Repeaters
tracomm trac...@... wrote: MTR-2000 repeaters are notorious for issues that require a power reset, less often with the latest version of firmware, but still require reset, there is a service bulletin on this. CJD Does the Service Bulletin provide a real world fix? ... or some type of work around? s.
[Repeater-Builder] I've been lookin' for line in all the wrong places...
Anyone have, or know of, a surplus of 1/2 line? I've been scouring the surplus places, eBay, etc., but haven't found any decent deals. I can use pieces or reels anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand feet. RFS, Andrew, et. al., anything but Commscope. Thanks in advance. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] I've been lookin' for line in all the wrong places...
Jeff DePolo wrote: Anyone have, or know of, a surplus of 1/2 line? I've been scouring the surplus places, eBay, etc., but haven't found any decent deals. I can use pieces or reels anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand feet. RFS, Andrew, et. al., anything but Commscope. Thanks in advance. I have an *end of roll* piece of FSJ4-50B of about 275', and another of about 175' but from the sound of it Jeff, you need much more than that :) Lots of connectors for same. Unfortunately, I'm between London and Toronto Ontario (Kitchener). Tedd Doda, VE3TJD Lazer Audio and Electronics http://www.ve3tjd.com High Performance cars don't kill Low Performance drivers do
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line
skipp025 wrote: For those of you who'd like to see a few different examples of various Simulcast Systems explained. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/case-studies.htm Another explanation is available here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/k7pp/index.html Kevin Custer
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar Simulcast Issue
Jeff DePolo wrote: To get the RF phase accuracy you're implying that is required would mean that everything in the RF path would have to guarantee that phase relationship. That means the same length RF interconnect cables inside the cabinet, same RF feedline length (or full-wavelength multiples thereof), same antenna type, etc. Even if you could guarantee that kind of accuracy at the time of installation, thermal effects would quickly throw it way off (cables expanding/contracting with temperature for example). Not to mention the propagation delay will vary a whole lot with temperature, humidity, etc. Just not gotta happen And in practice, we know it isn't going to happen, so we purposely set the frequency difference between transmitters that overlap in coverage to about 20 Hz. This negates most negative effects of two transmitters being real close but not dead on frequency or angle. Transmitters that are very close to one another will cause PL tone decoders in the users radio to not reliably open, not to mention to weird audio artifacts that are produced/heard. At 20 Hertz, or so, CTCSS tone decoders work fine and radios' speakers don't emit a horrible beat note. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] I've been lookin' for line in all the wrong places...
There's a guy that posts over on the TowerPro list named Mike Landa that is always horse-trading towers, feedline, etc. IIRC, his website is http://www.usedtowers.com -- John Smokey Behr Gleichweit FF1/EMT, CCNA, MCSE IPN-CAL023 N6FOG UP Fresno Sub MP183.5 ECV1852 List Owner x10, Moderator x9 CalEMA 51-507 http://smokeybehr.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/smokeybehr - Original Message From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 11:06:48 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] I've been lookin' for line in all the wrong places... Anyone have, or know of, a surplus of 1/2 line? I've been scouring the surplus places, eBay, etc., but haven't found any decent deals. I can use pieces or reels anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand feet. RFS, Andrew, et. al., anything but Commscope. Thanks in advance. --- Jeff WN3A Yahoo! Groups Links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join; target=_blank http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) href=mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com;repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com ymailto=mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com; href=mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com;repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com ymailto=mailto:repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com; href=mailto:repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com;repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/; target=_blank http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line
Were there specific UHF MICOR components that suited themselves to Simulcasting? Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 6/24/10, Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com wrote: From: Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 3:50 PM skipp025 wrote: For those of you who'd like to see a few different examples of various Simulcast Systems explained. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/case-studies.htm Another explanation is available here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/k7pp/index.html Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line
Yes, but you'll probably find them most often in Micor PURC (paging) stations. Components of interest include the high-stability and ultra-high-stability oscillators, simulcast control card, audio delay unit (usually made by Allen Avionics), etc. By no means a state-of-the-art system, but they worked...more or less...at least for paging. --- Jeff -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003 Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:13 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line Were there specific UHF MICOR components that suited themselves to Simulcasting? Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 6/24/10, Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com wrote: From: Kevin Custer kug...@kuggie.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simulcast Information on-line To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 3:50 PM skipp025 wrote: For those of you who'd like to see a few different examples of various Simulcast Systems explained. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/case-studies.htm http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/case-studies.htm Another explanation is available here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/k7pp/index.html http://www.repeater-builder.com/k7pp/index.html Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links (Yahoo! ID required)
[Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
Hi Guys, I am wondering what one would pay for a single Doug Hall voter module in good working condition? Be happy to get your replies directly. Regards Kevin.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
Did I buy your old voter unit? - Mike mryan...@tampabay.rr.com From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:26 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay. Hi Guys, I am wondering what one would pay for a single Doug Hall voter module in good working condition? Be happy to get your replies directly. Regards Kevin. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5226 (20100624) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5226 (20100624) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
Hi Mike, You did not buy my voter. I still have mine here. History - I brought one a couple of years back for a project in your repeater system Plan was to build 3 remote RX sites and feed it back to the main site (4th RX) and expand the coverage. However our MED (Your FCC) decided to charge for every repeater in the country, this included Amateur repeaters. So if I was to put the 3 remote sites and then have to add a TX to them to get back to the main site they would be required to pay. The group already had 7 repeaters and links, and as most will know getting money to fund repeaters is not easy. Power, rents (ours is good), repairs and now fees, the extra could not be justified. So the project went out the door. So I have been sitting on dead equipment (or money), so decided I would let it go and have someone else make use of it. It's a shame as it would of given more coverage on one freq. in the area. L And thinking now, I believe digital will be the way of the future, but I only wish it could be like the trunking systems, it is intelligent enough to do the switching as and when required to stay online when moving around. Regards Kevin. ZL1KFM. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 12:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay. Did I buy your old voter unit? - Mike mryan...@tampabay.rr.com From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:26 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay. Hi Guys, I am wondering what one would pay for a single Doug Hall voter module in good working condition? Be happy to get your replies directly. Regards Kevin. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5226 (20100624) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5226 (20100624) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5226 (20100624) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com image001.jpgimage002.jpg
[Repeater-Builder] Re: [rfamplifiers] re: w6tc
Cross posted to repeater-builder and repeaters - yahoo groups. To all, Sorry to see that George passed away. He will be missed by all. As were on the subject of RF amplifiers, I'm looking for someone to either construct or sell me an amplifier in the 144 - 148 range MHz range. I'm looking for an output of 250 - 350 watts which will be used in repeater operation. Input requirements are around 1 - 10 watts of drive. Please reply off list. Thanks, Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: skipp025 To: rfamplifi...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: [rfamplifiers] re: w6tc I was sorry to very recently learn that George Badger W6TC became an SK. During his tenure at Svetlana, he would often make special product samples available to Amateurs Constructing Tube Amplifier Projects. Even though he was relatively local to me I had never met him in person, but we had conversed a number of times by Email and telephone. ... and he enjoyed building amplifiers. High Power Linear Amp with Power Supply: 1.5 kW, 8877 Ebay Item Number: 330443604579 regards, s. http://www.arrl.org/news/george-badger-w6tc-sk 11/19/2009 George Badger, W6TC, of Portola Valley, California, passed away on Sunday, November 15. He was 84. Originally licensed in 1939 as W6RXW when he was 14, Badger was a member of the ARRL for 67 of his 69 year amateur career. After World War II service with the 89th Infantry Signal Company in Europe, he graduated from the University of California with a degree in electrical engineering. Badger held seven patents on microwave tube and circuit design and was Marketing Director for EIMAC, was President of Svetlana and consulted for CPII Econco. Badger published many technical articles professionally and in the amateur press. First published in QST in 1981, Badger's most recent article, The Pileup Buster, was published in October 2008; his next article, Easy to Make Four-to-One Coreless Baluns, is scheduled to be published for a spring 2010 issue. Badger was a Fellow in the Radio Club of America. His Amateur Radio interests included building equipment, antennas and working DX. Badger held DXCC Top of Honor Roll (Mixed), DXCC Honor Roll (both Phone and CW), 5BDXCC (with endorsements on 160, 30, 17 and 12 meters), DXCC on all bands (160-10) and 5BWAZ. He also exceeded 2500 points on the DXCC Challenge. Contributions in memory of Badger can be made to the Stanford University Medical Center, Department of Immunology, 2700 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park, CA 94025.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR-2000 Repeaters
I think notorious is an extreme exaggeration. I have eight MTR2000 repeaters in service, and they have been trouble-free. Moreover, I have never heard of such problems from other MTR2000 owners. Some early units had problems with a bad batch of a particular transistor, but that was corrected years ago. Let's have some hard data to back up this vague allegation! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:30 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR-2000 Repeaters tracomm trac...@... wrote: MTR-2000 repeaters are notorious for issues that require a power reset, less often with the latest version of firmware, but still require reset, there is a service bulletin on this. CJD Does the Service Bulletin provide a real world fix? ... or some type of work around? s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar Simulcast Issue
Thanks Kevin, Now I know the reason for the offset. tom On 6/24/2010 4:58 PM, Kevin Custer wrote: Jeff DePolo wrote: To get the RF phase accuracy you're implying that is required would mean that everything in the RF path would have to guarantee that phase relationship. That means the same length RF interconnect cables inside the cabinet, same RF feedline length (or full-wavelength multiples thereof), same antenna type, etc. Even if you could guarantee that kind of accuracy at the time of installation, thermal effects would quickly throw it way off (cables expanding/contracting with temperature for example). Not to mention the propagation delay will vary a whole lot with temperature, humidity, etc. Just not gotta happen And in practice, we know it isn't going to happen, so we purposely set the frequency difference between transmitters that overlap in coverage to about 20 Hz. This negates most negative effects of two transmitters being real close but not dead on frequency or angle. Transmitters that are very close to one another will cause PL tone decoders in the users radio to not reliably open, not to mention to weird audio artifacts that are produced/heard. At 20 Hertz, or so, CTCSS tone decoders work fine and radios' speakers don't emit a horrible beat note. Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Astron HELP!! (35A)
Howdy y'all. I came across the repeater builders website looking for information on the Astron 35A. I am in my 4th quarter at ITT and just started Devices 1. I just received a non working 35A from another ham for use as Study material for our electronics club. Looking at the 4 different schematics available I Believe that we have the one based on the 1991 schematic. So far we know that the MCR225 is toast. There was enough of it to get a partial number off to help us guess that it was the 1991 version which is the only one to use that specific part number. Also on the cabinet mounted TIP29 there is a brown lead that I believe is coming from the emitter to the top of a resistor sticking up on its end. That resistor is also toast and I am guessing the tip29 along with it. I am not sure if that is the 2.4 ohm resistor that is omitted in some of the other schematics or not. Its too burnt up to tell any color codes. I am curious as to what would have caused this kind of failure along with suggested replacement parts numbers. I also need verification as to the Identification of the mystery resistor. Any help would be appreciated. 73
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Doug Hall Voter - What Would One Pay.
Kevin, The last Doug Hall 4RV voter shelf I bought off of ebay came with a 4 ch radio card and a 4 ch line card. I paid $250 for it a couple years ago. It was a brand new spare that was never put in service. Hope this helps. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle spar...@... wrote: Hi Guys, I am wondering what one would pay for a single Doug Hall voter module in good working condition? Be happy to get your replies directly. Regards Kevin.
