Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I, too, am a long-time Retrospect user. I only began using Arcserve because it was the only way to backup my Netware server. I still use Arcserve for that, but everything else, including my NT4 Server is backed up by Retrospect. Now, to be fair, Arcserve is a little arcane to set up, but once you know the ins and outs its not TOO awful... about like getting a cavity filled... unpleasant, but better than a root-canal! Now, on to the story I wanted to tell... and another reason to pick Retrospect. I originally planned to back up my NT4 server via Arcserve. There were a lot of reasons for this that made sense at the time. I purchased Arcserve's Client Agent for NT and set up the backup and things were going smoothly. But, being the administrator that I am, I HATE to actually get up from my desk and walk up to a computer to check it's status or monitor it's activity. I prefer logging in remotely via Timbuktu and doing my management that way. So, after researching and finding that Timbuktu WOULD indeed run on my NT4 server, I wasted no time in installing it. The very next day, my NT4 server was NOT backed up by Arcserve. To make a VERY long story short, nothing I tried could make the NT server appear for Arcserve again. I uninstalled Timbuktu; uninstalled reinstalled Client Agent; contacted Arcserve tech support; contacted Timbuktu tech support; got Arcserve Timbuktu techs to talk to each other... in the end, Arcserve washed their hands of it saying it was Timbuktu's fault and MAYBE if I reinstalled NT4 I could get back Client Agent. Anyone ever "reinstalled" NT on a critical server that has now not been backed up for over 2 weeks?!? I hung up the phone and started checking out Retrospect's capabilities to handle backing up NT servers. I installed Retrospect on my NT server and have not regretted it for one second. Kudos to Dantz for making such a great product! So... when are you guys going to add support for Netware? :-) Wasn't it Tom Roth who once said... Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup From: "Tom Roth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:14:24 -0500 Ben Eastwood wrote: I have lots to comment on this thread! I Love Retro and ditched Arcserve for Retro about six months ago. I had used it for years to back up Macs, and now I'm using it for about ten NT servers, Including one that has over 160 GB of Drive space, a couple that run MS SQL Server 7, and a Lotus Notes server -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Ben, We're only a Windows shop and do not use the Open File Manager product. My Servers are a mix of Windows NT4 and Windows 2000 and my clients are a mix of Windows 9x, NTW4 and Win2000Pro. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance David -Original Message- From: Ben Eastwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:42 PM To: retro-talk Subject:Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup David- Are you also using Open File Manager, and if so does it work OK in Win2k with Services for Mac? ( I know this is not really a retrospect issue, but not totally offtopic..) -- Ben Eastwood IT Manager wilweb.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Kraut, David" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "retro-talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:38 -0500 To: 'retro-talk' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I use it to back up a mix of (20) NT4 and Win2000 Servers. The retrospect program is running on a 2000 Server and works fine. I've also used ArcServe in the past and wild horses couldn't drag me back to that nightmare of a product!! :) David Kraut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:53 AM To: retro-talk Subject: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I've been using ARCserve for many years to backup my NT 4.0 Server and NT Workstations and long time ago to backup a Novell server. For the Mac side of things though I've always preferred and used Retrospect. I prefer Retrospect because it's much easier to install, use and maintain than ARCserve. Both products have been very reliable though I'd have to say that Retrospect has proved to be a little more reliable than ARCserve. Now I'm finding myself needing to upgrade ARCserve to the new ARCserve 2000. However, I'd really rather drop ARCserve and switch to Retrospect Server Backup to perform the NT 4.0 Server (and eventually Windows 200 Server) and NT Workstation backups. Comparing the the two product's features and supported drives looks to be essentially the same. Anyone out there with experience using Retrospect Server Backup on a Windows NT 4.0 Server? I'd love to get some feedback about it. Thanks!! -- Tom Roth * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * tel 336.716.4493 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Dept of Biomedical Communications Medical Center Blvd * Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011 http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
I am using Retro Windows to backup a HP LH4 NT4 server with no problems. I cannot upgrade to the latest version (5.15) as for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped in that version. But 5.11 seems to be running with no problems so it's no big deal. A big dissapointment is the lack backup to FTP server which is so cool on the Mac version. Another issue is with the Retro windows client. A Mac backup server will not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7 installed, there is some sort of conflict. It will work fine with Oracle, however. The Retro Win app will run fine with MSSQL 7 however. This is too bad as the best thing I can think of is to use a Mac to backup your Win servers (boy does that annoy the Bill Gates zombies). One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse to your target files, you must know the path/name of your target directory. And retro cannot not run as a service so somebody putzing around with the server could quit out of retro and your backup won't take place. I think this was more or less rectified in version 5.15, but I'm not sure. Currently I have no data on server 2000 to give you. As you know Arcserve is a confusing PITA nightmare of a program and I will take Retrospect, warts and all, over that software any day of the week. -- James Cobb Network Manager LifeNet 5809 Ward Court Virginia Beach, VA 1-800-TISSUE-1 On Wednesday, March 7, 2001 8:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using ARCserve for many years to backup my NT 4.0 Server and NT Workstations and long time ago to backup a Novell server. For the Mac side of things though I've always preferred and used Retrospect. I prefer Retrospect because it's much easier to install, use and maintain than ARCserve. Both products have been very reliable though I'd have to say that Retrospect has proved to be a little more reliable than ARCserve. Now I'm finding myself needing to upgrade ARCserve to the new ARCserve 2000. However, I'd really rather drop ARCserve and switch to Retrospect Server Backup to perform the NT 4.0 Server (and eventually Windows 200 Server) and NT Workstation backups. Comparing the the two product's features and supported drives looks to be essentially the same. Anyone out there with experience using Retrospect Server Backup on a Windows NT 4.0 Server? I'd love to get some feedback about it. Thanks!! -- Tom Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel 336.716.4493 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Dept of Biomedical Communications Medical Center Blvd Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011 http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Jim Cobb wrote: I am using Retro Windows to backup a HP LH4 NT4 server with no problems. I cannot upgrade to the latest version (5.15) as for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped in that version. Jim, Appreciate your comments. Which HP DLT drive is that? We're currently using a Quantum DLT4000 on a Dell PowerEdge Server and are planning to replace that with one of the new HP Ultrium drives this summer. I thought all of these drives were supported according to the Dantz web page. For the Mac's we've got Retrospect running on a PowerMac 7500 with an Exabyte 8mm. I was thinking I'd still keep the two backups separate but move the DLT4000 to the Mac when we get the Ultrium for the Dell server. Comments? We're short on capacity now with both systems and no tape library is or will be available. But 5.11 seems to be running with no problems so it's no big deal. A big dissapointment is the lack backup to FTP server which is so cool on the Mac version. I never upgraded my Mac version to do that as I didn't see a need for it. Do you use that feature and if so, why and how? One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse to your target files, you must know the path/name of your target directory. Not the end of the world but something perhaps they'll address soon. And retro cannot not run as a service so somebody putzing around with the server could quit out of retro and your backup won't take place. I think this was more or less rectified in version 5.15, but I'm not sure. I may look into that further. ARCserve has a bunch of services running for all sorts of things but it seems like an awful lot of program(s) just to do a backup. Currently I have no data on server 2000 to give you. I know of a few folks using it for workstations but not for servers. As you know Arcserve is a confusing PITA nightmare of a program and I will take Retrospect, warts and all, over that software any day of the week. I started using Retrospect years ago to do Mac backups and it's always been so much better than any PC backup program I've used. When they came out with a PC Retrospect I was glad to see it. -- Tom Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel 336.716.4493 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Dept of Biomedical Communications Medical Center Blvd Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011 http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
I have lots to comment on this thread! I Love Retro and ditched Arcserve for Retro about six months ago. I had used it for years to back up Macs, and now I'm using it for about ten NT servers, Including one that has over 160 GB of Drive space, a couple that run MS SQL Server 7, and a Lotus Notes server. Lots of open DBs on that one. Here are some things I've found: Retro is much more reliable than Arcserve. It just works. Its easier to setup, more flexible, and most importantly, easier to restore from. Open File Manager works to back up the open databases just fine, BUT there is a conflict between OFM and NT's services for macintosh that causes nasty crashes on the server being backed up. There is apparently fix for this available from MS, but it is not available for download, it requires a (paid) service call to MS Support. I is supposed to be fixed in the next NT SP, but with Win2k on the market, that may never come. I don't know it it is a problem in Win2k. I'll be finding out soon... I have also had trouble with the 400,000 file/defined volume limit in Retrospect. As web developers we are working with a lot of little files in pretty complex directory structures. When a Retrospect volume contains more than 400,000 files you will start to get -519 out of memory errors and the backup will fail. The workaround for this is to define the Retrospect volumes at a lower level of the directory structure, which is a bit of a pain. If that is not workable, you could try scheduling an automated task with an NT "at" command to have the large folder zipped into an archive before the backup runs and them backup the archive. A little Rube Goldberg, but it should work. I haven't tried it though... I have been told that this will be fixed in the next version of Retrospect. I can't wait! Backing up servers is one thing, but Retrospect's advantages really become apparent when you want to backup workstations as well. the "backup server" function is really cool, especially if you have laptop users. Retrospect uses the network very efficiently! And since the Server version comes with 100 clients, you should have no trouble with client licensing unless you have a pretty big organization. I hope this helps, Tom. -- Ben Eastwood IT Manager wilweb.com 5650 Hollis St. Suite 2 Emeryville CA, 94608 510-594-7037 [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Stephen Jones" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "retro-talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:45:58 -0500 To: "'retro-talk'" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I wonder if St. Bernard's Open File Manager will work in conjunction with Retrospect? It works with a ton of other software vendors. Their web site is www.stbernard.com. I do not have any affiliation with that package, I'm just making it known it exists and may help guys looking for SQL, Exchange or Open file backup. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Irena Solomon Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:59 AM To: retro-talk Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup Hi Jim, Thanks for the feedback! I just wanted to clarify a few points though, as you seem to be running into limitations that should not exist. for some reason the support for the HP DLT drive was dropped in that version. Drive support is never removed when we release a software update. Any device supported in 5.11 is also supported in 5.15. If 5.15 is having trouble seeing your drive for some reason, there's something going on that is preventing Retrospect from loading the correct driver. A Mac backup server will not back up a NT4 server which has MSSQL 7 installed, there is some sort of conflict. Having MSSQL 7 installed on a machine won't, on it's own, prevent a backup of that computer to a Mac. The only limit you'll run into is that Retrospect is unable to back up open databases, but this isn't a function of backing up to a Mac server. This is because database files have a "lock range," which locks in all or part of a database so that it cannot be accessed by any other application when it is being accessed by the database software. One more annoying thing about Retro Windows is that you cannot browse to your target files In what situation? There are very few situations that would require you to know a path name to access a volume. And retro cannot not run as a service Retrospect uses the Retrospect Launcher Service to automatically launch when the program is not open. You needn't even be logged in to Windows for the program to automatically launch! For more on this, see page 154 of the 5.0 User's Guide. I advise you to contact Tech Support with any questions. We can help you get your drive showing up in 5.15 or configure any aspect of Retrospect to take advantage of it's features. Best Regards, Irena Solomon
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
My department has two DLT4000 drives, one connected to a Mac and the other to a PC. The one connected to the PC is an autochanger. Both work flawlessly with the current versions of Retrospect and OS's on the machines. We switched from Arcserve on the PC to Retrospect and have never looked back. Arcserve was very expensive cow of a program. In total, we spent about $3000 on software just to get the network backups to happen. The interface is terrible and the guy that was trying to learn all the facets of Arcserve had a hell of a time proving that the backups were happening at all! We discovered that we were reading the log incorrectly and that it was skipping about 4-5 machines during backup. Unfortunately, one of the machines had crashed. We switched to Retrospect about a week later and now we can easily look at the report and see which machines were backed up each night. I know that probably 99% of the problem was lack of understanding the program, but if it takes that much understanding to even tell if the backups happened, it's not for me. Retrospect, nothing else even close. If Dantz went out of business, we'd all switch to Linux around here. :) Appreciate your comments. Which HP DLT drive is that? We're currently using a Quantum DLT4000 on a Dell PowerEdge Server and are planning to replace that with one of the new HP Ultrium drives this summer. I thought all of these drives were supported according to the Dantz web page. This is a 4000 unit. The odd thing is that we use a DLT 4000 jukebox on a Mac with no problem, why it does not recognize this particular HP unit I don't know. I turned in a bug report to Dantz but have not received any workd on it. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
David- Are you also using Open File Manager, and if so does it work OK in Win2k with Services for Mac? ( I know this is not really a retrospect issue, but not totally offtopic..) -- Ben Eastwood IT Manager wilweb.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Kraut, David" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "retro-talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:38 -0500 To: 'retro-talk' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I use it to back up a mix of (20) NT4 and Win2000 Servers. The retrospect program is running on a 2000 Server and works fine. I've also used ArcServe in the past and wild horses couldn't drag me back to that nightmare of a product!! :) David Kraut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:53 AM To: retro-talk Subject: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I've been using ARCserve for many years to backup my NT 4.0 Server and NT Workstations and long time ago to backup a Novell server. For the Mac side of things though I've always preferred and used Retrospect. I prefer Retrospect because it's much easier to install, use and maintain than ARCserve. Both products have been very reliable though I'd have to say that Retrospect has proved to be a little more reliable than ARCserve. Now I'm finding myself needing to upgrade ARCserve to the new ARCserve 2000. However, I'd really rather drop ARCserve and switch to Retrospect Server Backup to perform the NT 4.0 Server (and eventually Windows 200 Server) and NT Workstation backups. Comparing the the two product's features and supported drives looks to be essentially the same. Anyone out there with experience using Retrospect Server Backup on a Windows NT 4.0 Server? I'd love to get some feedback about it. Thanks!! -- Tom Roth * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * tel 336.716.4493 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Dept of Biomedical Communications Medical Center Blvd * Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011 http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup
Hi all, Note that Retrospect is able to back up *most* open files. Most database files though will be inaccessible to other application while they are in use by the database. Regards, Irena From: Ben Eastwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup David- Are you also using Open File Manager, and if so does it work OK in Win2k with Services for Mac? ( I know this is not really a retrospect issue, but not totally offtopic..) -- Ben Eastwood IT Manager wilweb.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Kraut, David" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I use it to back up a mix of (20) NT4 and Win2000 Servers. The retrospect program is running on a 2000 Server and works fine. I've also used ArcServe in the past and wild horses couldn't drag me back to that nightmare of a product!! :) David Kraut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:53 AM To: retro-talk Subject: ARCserve vs Retrospect Server Backup I've been using ARCserve for many years to backup my NT 4.0 Server and NT Workstations and long time ago to backup a Novell server. For the Mac side of things though I've always preferred and used Retrospect. I prefer Retrospect because it's much easier to install, use and maintain than ARCserve. Both products have been very reliable though I'd have to say that Retrospect has proved to be a little more reliable than ARCserve. Now I'm finding myself needing to upgrade ARCserve to the new ARCserve 2000. However, I'd really rather drop ARCserve and switch to Retrospect Server Backup to perform the NT 4.0 Server (and eventually Windows 200 Server) and NT Workstation backups. Comparing the the two product's features and supported drives looks to be essentially the same. Anyone out there with experience using Retrospect Server Backup on a Windows NT 4.0 Server? I'd love to get some feedback about it. Thanks!! -- Tom Roth * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * tel 336.716.4493 Wake Forest University School of Medicine Dept of Biomedical Communications Medical Center Blvd * Winston-Salem, NC 27157-1011 http://www.wfubmc.edu/biomed/ -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
