RE: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
In addition to Jim Martins comments about rail size, I believe turnout number makes a difference too. With a #5 turnout, you have a physically shorter length of rail from the throwbar to the fixed frog than is the case with say a #8. The shorter length puts more stress on the solder joint, so I am more inclined to use a hinged connection with the lower-numbered turnouts.That said, I have about twenty #6 turnouts, code 100, with soldered throwbars that have held up for more than twenty years. I have also had 2 or 3 break in that timeframe, and when I repair them I go with the hinged technique.Gaylord GillHighland, MI ---In s-scale@yahoogroups.com, bob@... wrote: Let me add a few words (?) to what Peter has mentioned. With a few exceptions our modules have small tabs soldered to the web of the rail--they resemble little ears. One of our older members made up a notched form to make these fairly quickly. We then drill a hole for #80 screw or a rivet (depending on builder) in those ears. We use circuit board material without the copper attached as the drawbar itself. That rivet or screw allows a bit of flexibility when thrown. Weve probably had a failure or two over the years. I use the same proceedure on my layout and Jack Troxell, the originator of that system have been in operation for 25+ 30 +years respecively without failures. Jack has all his turnouts with hinges and mine are a mixture of solid rail and hinges depending on turnout # and rail size. I go from #70 to #126 for rail sizes. Bob Werre PhotoTraxx On 10/7/13 8:00 AM, Peter Vanvliet wrote: Our club, the Houston S gaugers, uses handlaid code 100, also solid rail with soldered throwbars. Ive been with the club for over 5 years now and we do 3 to 5 shows a year, and the modules are stored in a non-A/Ced storage unit. Not a single one has broken since Ive been with the club. The modules were built in the late 1980s. I will use this same method again for a future layout. - Peter. On 10/05/2013 5:26 pm, meldridge@... wrote: Time for a final (?) decision. Should I solder the point rails to the throwbar, or solder a tab to the rails and put a screw through the tab into the throwbar? Im most curious to hear from people that solder the rails to the throwbar. Fill in the blanks: In years of operating them Ive had _ solder joints come apart. -Michael Eldridge -- Peter Vanvliet (peter@...) Houston, Texas My Model Railroad Site (RSS feed) Fourth Ray Software Houston S Gaugers N.A.S.G. -- __._,_.___
RE: RE: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
Actually I was, but I’m retired now. Actually I get plenty of ideas,
implementing them is the problem.
Dave Heine
From: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
pickyca...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 11:53 PM
To: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RE: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
Dave,
You must be some sort of engineer to think up an idea like that.
Ben Trousdale
---In S-Scale@yahoogroups.com, s-scale@yahoogroups.com wrote:
If you wanted to get fancy, you could rig up an automatic system to test a set
of points soldered to the throwbar and let it run for a thousand cycles or
until it breaks. I would think number of operations is the best metric.
I was going to mention about the size of rail and whether the points themselves
are hinged or continuous but Jim bet me to it. I believe hinging the points
themselves using the shortened rail joiner method provides enough slop to
relieve the stresses. Also if you wire your turnouts so the point rail is
always the same polarity as its adjacent stock rail helps, because you can
place the point closer to the stock rail without problems, so the throw is less
along with less angle difference.
In my case, I hinged the points on my Code 83 turnouts and soldered the points
to the throwbar. I did this mainly because all but one of my Code 83 turnouts
are dual S/Sn3 gauge, so I have three rails to bend and I was worried about the
turnout motor throwing the turnout, which turned out not to be a problem. I do
have some dual S/Sn3 turnouts in Code 70 rail with solid point rails and
soldered throwbars and have not had any problems to date with them, but they do
take more force to move than the Code 83 ones with the hinged points. On stub
switches, I do allow for the rails to move one the throwbar a little. So far I
haven’t had any failures other than initial soldering problems. I haven’t laid
any Code 100 rail in years, and that was in my pre-handlaid track days.
Dave Heine
Easton, PA
From: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Cheryl Martin
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 9:13 PM
To: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
Jamie, Michael...I think the hinged vs soldered throwbar probably depends on
whether the point rails are hinged or solid, along with the rail size. My
turnouts are made with code 83 rail with solid point rails and soldered
throwbars. Code 83 rail doesn't put up a lot of resistance and the few solder
failures I've had at the throwbar have been because of bad soldering, not
stresses on the connection. Those who build with heavier rail (code 125 and
up) might be wise to hinge either or both ends of the points because of the
exponentially higher forces it takes to bend the rail. That's my take on
things for what it's worth.
BTW Michael, your track work techniques look first rate.
Jim (sticking with flex track) Martin
On October 6, 2013 at 10:49 AM Jamie Bothwell vze4cs43@... wrote:
Michael,
I have elected to go with soldering the rails to the throw bar, but I don't
have years of in use experience. Therefore I would also like to hear from
anyone who has had such in place for some time.
Jamie Bothwell
Curious in Bethlehem, PA
On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:26 PM, meldridge@... wrote:
Time for a final (?) decision. Should I solder the point rails to the throwbar,
or solder a tab to the rails and put a screw through the tab into the throwbar?
I'm most curious to hear from people that solder the rails to the throwbar.
Fill in the blanks: In years of operating them I've had _ solder
joints come apart.
-Michael Eldridge
RE: RE: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
Dave, You must besome sort ofengineer to think up an idea like that.Ben Trousdale ---In S-Scale@yahoogroups.com, s-scale@yahoogroups.com wrote:If you wanted to get fancy, you could rig up an automatic system to test a set of points soldered to the throwbar and let it run for a thousand cycles or until it breaks. I would think number of operations is the best metric. I was going to mention about the size of rail and whether the points themselves are hinged or continuous but Jim bet me to it. I believe hinging the points themselves using the shortened rail joiner method provides enough slop to relieve the stresses. Also if you wire your turnouts so the point rail is always the same polarity as its adjacent stock rail helps, because you can place the point closer to the stock rail without problems, so the throw is less along with less angle difference. In my case, I hinged the points on my Code 83 turnouts and soldered the points to the throwbar. I did this mainly because all but one of my Code 83 turnouts are dual S/Sn3 gauge, so I have three rails to bend and I was worried about the turnout motor throwing the turnout, which turned out not to be a problem. I do have some dual S/Sn3 turnouts in Code 70 rail with solid point rails and soldered throwbars and have not had any problems to date with them, but they do take more force to move than the Code 83 ones with the hinged points. On stub switches, I do allow for the rails to move one the throwbar a little. So far I haven’t had any failures other than initial soldering problems. I haven’t laid any Code 100 rail in years, and that was in my pre-handlaid track days. Dave HeineEaston, PA From: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Scale@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cheryl MartinSent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 9:13 PMTo: S-Scale@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar Jamie, Michael...I think the hinged vs soldered throwbar probably depends on whether the point rails are hinged or solid, along with the rail size. My turnouts are made with code 83 rail with solid point rails and soldered throwbars. Code 83 rail doesnt put up a lot of resistance and the few solder failures Ive had at the throwbar have been because of bad soldering, not stresses on the connection. Those who build with heavier rail (code 125 and up) might be wise to hinge either or both ends of the points because of the exponentially higher forces it takes to bend the rail. Thats my take on things for what its worth. BTW Michael, your track work techniques look first rate. Jim (sticking with flex track) MartinOnOctober6,2013at10:49AMJamieBothwellvze4cs43@...wrote: Michael,I have elected to go with soldering the rails to the throw bar, but I dont have years of in use experience. Therefore I would also like to hear from anyone who has had such in place for some time. Jamie Bothwell Curious in Bethlehem, PA On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:26 PM, meldridge@... wrote: Time for a final (?) decision. Should I solder the point rails to the throwbar, or solder a tab to the rails and put a screw through the tab into the throwbar? Im most curious to hear from people that solder the rails to the throwbar. Fill in the blanks: In years of operating them Ive had _ solder joints come apart. -Michael Eldridge
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RE: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
I soldered all my points to the throw bar and all the points werehinged for bothcode 100 and code 125 rail. I made the hinges for 125 rail out of SHS insulated joiners and for 100 rail out of PECO insulated joiners. The throw bars weremade of PC boardwith a gap in the copper foil. The rail soldered like a charm to the foil.The main trick is to heat the end of the point so that it would melt solder before making contact with the foil. The foil delaminates if it gets too hot. Only failures were initial bad solder joints. They held for 10 years or more. One aspect I didnt like was that some ofthe point assemblies would work their way away from the hinge until the throw ran into its adjacent tie. There was not enough movement to cause the rail to work free of the hinge joiner; I just didnt like the unsightly gap. I think this creep was due to the tension at the rigid joints at the throw bars.Ben Trousdale ---In S-Scale@yahoogroups.com, s-scale@yahoogroups.com wrote:Michael, I have elected to go with soldering the rails to the throw bar, but I dont have years of in use experience. Therefore I would also like to hear from anyone who has had such in place for some time.Jamie BothwellCurious in Bethlehem, PA On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:26 PM, meldridge@... wrote: Time for a final (?) decision. Should I solder the point rails to the throwbar, or solder a tab to the rails and put a screw through the tab into the throwbar? Im most curious to hear from people that solder the rails to the throwbar. Fill in the blanks: In years of operating them Ive had _ solder joints come apart.-Michael Eldridge __._,_.___ Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
Does all this add up to a group of S gaugers where some are hinged and others
are unhinged??
John Armstrong
- Original Message -
From: pickyca...@yahoo.com
To: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2013 11:56 PM
Subject: RE: Re: {S-Scale List} Hinged or solid points to throwbar
I soldered all my points to the throw bar and all the points were hinged for
both code 100 and code 125 rail. I made the hinges for 125 rail out of SHS
insulated joiners and for 100 rail out of PECO insulated joiners. The throw
bars were made of PC board with a gap in the copper foil. The rail soldered
like a charm to the foil. The main trick is to heat the end of the point so
that it would melt solder before making contact with the foil. The foil
delaminates if it gets too hot. Only failures were initial bad solder joints.
They held for 10 years or more. One aspect I didn't like was that some of the
point assemblies would work their way away from the hinge until the throw ran
into its adjacent tie. There was not enough movement to cause the rail to work
free of the hinge joiner; I just didn't like the unsightly gap. I think this
creep was due to the tension at the rigid joints at the throw bars.
Ben Trousdale
---In S-Scale@yahoogroups.com, s-scale@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Michael,
I have elected to go with soldering the rails to the throw bar, but I
don't have years of in use experience. Therefore I would also like to hear
from anyone who has had such in place for some time.
Jamie Bothwell
Curious in Bethlehem, PA
On Oct 5, 2013, at 6:26 PM, meldridge@... wrote:
Time for a final (?) decision. Should I solder the point rails to the
throwbar, or solder a tab to the rails and put a screw through the tab into the
throwbar? I'm most curious to hear from people that solder the rails to the
throwbar. Fill in the blanks: In years of operating them I've had _
solder joints come apart.
-Michael Eldridge
