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Today's Topics:
1. sambodhana for the word "sarva" (Jay Vaidya)
2. The rUpasiddhi of agastya (Jay Vaidya)
3. Re: English stay sthA (Ambujam Raman)
4. agasti tree (peekayar)
5. Re: agasti tree (Vis Tekumalla)
6. Re: agasti tree (peekayar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:33:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] sambodhana for the word "sarva"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
pR^ichchhati sma hareshaH:
> namaste, we do not associate the
> vocative/sambodhanaartha/ashhTamii
> vibhakti with pronouns.
> Please refer to bhagvad-giitaa 11.40.
> Here, in the second quarter you will
> find "sarva" to mean
> "O All".
> Have you come across such exceptions?
nanu nAstyayamapavAdaH iti bhavadIxaNArtham
samarpayAmi haresha |
This is not an exception. It follows the usual rule.
All words that take the prathamA vibhakti can be used
to call out to someone -- sambodhana. What would a
sa.nskR^ita speaker say in a situation when, in
English
we say "Hey, you!"? I doubt she would keep quiet -- a
language is after all used to communicate. She would
certainly use the prathamA of "yushhmad" in the
sambodhana sense. "ayi tvam!", or, "ayi atrabhavati!"
depending on the degree of respect.
A few issues to consider:
(1) The concept of pronoun is not considered worth
defining in sa.nskR^ita grammar. The term "sarvanAma"
is used in some modern Indian languages to correspond
to the English grammatical term "pronoun". This usage
is not related to the sa.nskR^ita term "sarvanAma",
which is a list of words that are conjugated somewhat
differently than the others. For example "prathama"
meaning "first" and "antara" meaning "underclothes"
are sarvanAma words but it is hard to think of them as
"pronoun"s in the English meaning. The closest that
one gets to the concept of "pronoun" in sa.nskR^ita is
the "tyadAdi" list. Its only importance is the way the
words in the tyadAdi list (includes tyad, tad, etad,
etc) can be used to summarize all other words "sa cha
rAmashcha = tau". (using "tyadAdIni sarvairnityam |
pA. sU. 1.2.72). Incidentally, the tyadAdi words are
all sarvanAmas, but the word "sarva" is not in the
tyadAdi list.
(2) To decide how many vibhaktis it takes, we need to
know -- what type of word is "sarva"? Before it is
conjugated, it is a "prAtipadika". All words that are
meaningful, not verb roots, and do not already have
pratyaya endings are prAtipAdika s. Allowed pratyaya
endings are kR^it, taddhita and samAsAnta. All
prAtipadikas and their feminine forms if any can take
"sup" vibhakti endings. Those prAtipadikas that do not
take these endings are enumerated under the lists of
avyayas or under avyayIbhAva samAsa. (Note that
"avyaya"s are not adverbs and conjunctions and
prepositions etc. from English grammar. They are just
"avyaya"s.)
(2)vocative/sambodhanArtha/ashhTamI is not defined as
a vibhakti in sa.nskR^ita. Though it is in some modern
Indian languages. The verb endings "tiN^" and the
prAtipadika endings "sup" are called vibhakti in
sa.nskR^ita. Usually many people think only of the
prAtipadika endings "sup" when they think of vibhakti.
There are only seven sets of three listed under "sup"
(pA. sU. 4.1.2).
(3) What vibhakti do you use to call out to people?
Answer: prathamA. pA sU 2.3.49 says: "sambodhane cha
... prathamA |" There are further modifications to
this prathama in the singular, sometimes.
e.g., sarvaH -> (sambodhane) -> sarva
bhavadIyo dhana.njayaH
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] The rUpasiddhi of agastya
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
uvaacha rAmakR^ishhNaH:
> Let us now deal only with agastya. Has it come from
> agastha and
> how?
Here is the etymology by bhAnuji dIxita, in his
"rAmAshramI" commentary on the amarakoshha.
QUOTED:
...agastyaH kumbhasambhavaH | ... amarakoshha 1.3.20
TIkA:
agaM vindhyaM styAyati stabhnoti | 'Ato.anupasarge kaH
(pA sU 3.2.3)' | 'agastyaH syAtkumbhayonau
va.ngasenatarAvapi' ||
agam asyati ityapi agastiH | 'vasestiH' (u 4.180)
bAhulakAdasyaterapi -- iti mukuTaH | vastutastu
'ktich-ktau cha (pA sU 3.3.174)' iti ktijuchitaH |
bAhulakAshrayasya agatikagatitvAt | shakandhvAdi (vA
6.1.94)|
TRANSLATION OF COMMENTARY:
agam (to the vindhya) styAyati (he who stops
[stabhnAti means rodhanam means stop -- note by
dhana.njaya])| Based on pANini sUtra 3.2.3. Elsewhere
it has been said that agastya is the name for the sage
born in the pot, and also that of a Bengali (?general,
tree? [I am not clear, note by dha.]).
(This is for agastya)
(Now agasti)
agam asyati (he who throws the mountain) can also be
agasti. 'Add -ti to vas (uNAdi sUtra 4.180)' Due to
irregularity, also the verb asyati -- so says mukuTa.
In fact, based on pANini sUtra 3.3.174, the ending
-ktich was appropriate ([that would make it not asti,
but asiti -- note from dhana.njayaH]). The
irregularity is imputed because we have to take that
choice having no choice at all. Also aga+astiH =
agastiH, an irregular sandhi due to the word belonging
to the shakandhu-etc. list. (as in vArtika 6.1.94)
Obviously, bhAnujidIxita does not really like the
etymology of agasti, but is satisfied with the
etymology of agastya.
Indeed, pANini (agastyakau.nDinyayoragastiku.nDinach
2.4.70) makes 'agasti' a just-so (nipAtita) derivative
from agastya, meaning the 'descendants of agastya
gotra'. This suggests that, meaning the sage agastya,
the word 'agasti' may be a retroderivative (imagined
origin word, which then gains official status). In
that case, we need not try to seriously find the
origin for the word 'agasti'.
svasti,
dhana.njayaH
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:56:55 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] English stay sthA
To: "peekayar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Stet is the standard instruction in notes to indicate "Let it stand".
According to OED it is derived from Latin stare meaning stand. That is
closer to sanskrit 'sthA'.
Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "peekayar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "sanskrit digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] English stay sthA
> According to M-W,
> It is derived from
> agasti (not agastha = one who stays in/on mountain, which doesn't make
sense given what he did to a
> mountain)
>
> <E> agasti
> <M> m. (according to Un2. iv , 179 fr. 2. %{a-ga} , a mountain , and
%{asti} ,
> thrower , 2. %{as}). N. of a R2ishi (author of several Vedic hymns ; said
to
> have been the son of both Mitra and Varun2a by Urvas3i1 ; to have been
born in
> a water-jar ; to have been of short stature ; to have swallowed the ocean
, and
> compelled the Vindhya mountains to prostrate themselves before him ; to
have
> conquered and civilized the South ;
>
> Now regarding -asti,
> <E> astR
> <M> mfn. (fut. p.) one who is about or intends to throw RV. i , 61 , 7 ;
x , 133 , 3 ; (%{tA}) m. a thrower , shooter RV. AV. ; (with %{a-pa4d})
S3Br.
>
> <E> asta
> <M> 1 mfn. (perf. Pass. p. 2. %{as}) , thrown , cast Ragh. xii , 91 ;
(%{a4n-} neg.) S3Br. iii ; (only in comp.) thrown off , left off , set aside
, given up (as grief. anger , a vow , &c.) VP. Katha1s. &c. ; (%{A4}) f. a
missile , an arrow AV.
> <E> astakopa
> <M> mfn. one whose anger is laid aside , Comm on Megh.
> - Sai.
>
>
> peekayar uvaacha:
> > Let us now deal only with agastya. Has it come from
> > agastha and
> > how?
> >
> > Desiraju Hanumanta Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > the sa.nskR^ita "sthA" (rather than "styaa") and the English "stay" -->
> >
> > This is the account for stay derived from stand:
> > >> Oxford<< Prob. a. OF. (e)stai-, (e)stei-, flexional stem of ester
(:L. stre) to stand. Cf. the earlier RESTAY v. In AF. the regular form of
the pres. sing. indic. was estais, estait; an inf. *esteier, *estaier may
have existed in colloquial use, but has not been found; the gerund esteaunt
(three-syllables) occurs in Boeve de Haumtone (ed. Stimming) 2244. Eastern
and North-eastern dialects of OF. have an inf. form esteir. << and >>
Anglo-French estai-, stem of Old French ester, from Latin stare 'stand' <<
This is under their theaory of pobability, not affirmed.
> >
> > So also is - go - ga, gaml, gamana > Old English gaan, from Germanic:
went originally the past tense of wend <<
> >
> > But, how to prove to the acceptance of Eng. etymologists like -
shampoo - >> Oxford : Hindustani chhampo, imperative of chhampna 'to press'
<< and Laksmhi for Lakme [cosmetics] etc - is to be exmined.
> >
> > dhr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] agasti tree
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am thankful to those who are participating in this topic. Here I am straying away
from the main topic.
Regarding the meaning of a tree named agasti.
(MW-Agasti Grandiflora, agasti-dru}
This is a tree of small height grown on the dividing
mud boundaries of rice fields. Nowadays it is grown along with sugarcane also. It is
used mainly as fodder for cattle. The green leaves are also used for cooking. In
Tamil Nad it is called aathi-keerai, obviously from agasti>agathi>aathi.
I am told that it has properties to cure mouth ulcer and therefore eaten with pulses.
In olden days taking it once in fifteen days was religiously followed. I
remember that when the Sankaracharya of Sringeri was camping at Kalady for several
months, the Mutt
employees were hunting for aathi-keerai for the
Acharya"s dwaadashi paarayanam. It is not generally cultivated in Kerala.
I do not know how it got the adjective Bengali. When I was living in Calcutta for many
years, I have seen this being sold in large quantities in the vegetable market.
Probably it is grown largely in Bengal.
It must have got the name agasti because just like agasti (agastya) it has a short
stature compared to other trees.
PKRamakrishnan
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] agasti tree
To: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
raavaNa is also known as paulastya (a descendent of pulasta, his grandfather). Wonder
if the "pulasta" name has some meaning/significance.
Also, wrt Mr. Ramakrishnan's mail on Agasti tree/Shankaraacharya/Kaladi: I know there
was a Sanskrit movie produced on Adi Shankaracharya's life several years ago. Does
anyone know if you can get a video cassette/DVD of that movie from somewhere? I wonder
if that was the only Sanskrit movie ever produced!
peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am thankful to those who are participating in this topic. Here I am straying away
from the main topic.
Regarding the meaning of a tree named agasti.
(MW-Agasti Grandiflora, agasti-dru}
This is a tree of small height grown on the dividing
mud boundaries of rice fields. Nowadays it is grown along with sugarcane also. It is
used mainly as fodder for cattle. The green leaves are also used for cooking. In
Tamil Nad it is called aathi-keerai, obviously from agasti>agathi>aathi.
I am told that it has properties to cure mouth ulcer and therefore eaten with pulses.
In olden days taking it once in fifteen days was religiously followed. I
remember that when the Sankaracharya of Sringeri was camping at Kalady for several
months, the Mutt
employees were hunting for aathi-keerai for the
Acharya"s dwaadashi paarayanam. It is not generally cultivated in Kerala.
I do not know how it got the adjective Bengali. When I was living in Calcutta for many
years, I have seen this being sold in large quantities in the vegetable market.
Probably it is grown largely in Bengal.
It must have got the name agasti because just like agasti (agastya) it has a short
stature compared to other trees.
PKRamakrishnan
---------------------------------
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sanskrit mailing list
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] agasti tree
To: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
We are straying still farther away from the main topic.
The movie on Adi Sankaracharya was the first and perhaps the only one in Sanskrit. It
was produced by late K.V.Iyer of Bangalore. I shall enquire if any
DVD is available in Bangalore. I am not sure whether
he produced a second Sanskrit Movie on Bhagavat Gita.
Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
raavaNa is also known as paulastya (a descendent of pulasta, his grandfather). Wonder
if the "pulasta" name has some meaning/significance.
Also, wrt Mr. Ramakrishnan's mail on Agasti tree/Shankaraacharya/Kaladi: I know there
was a Sanskrit movie produced on Adi Shankaracharya's life several years ago. Does
anyone know if you can get a video cassette/DVD of that movie from somewhere? I wonder
if that was the only Sanskrit movie ever produced!
peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am thankful to those who are participating in this topic. Here I am straying away
from the main topic.
Regarding the meaning of a tree named agasti.
(MW-Agasti Grandiflora, agasti-dru}
This is a tree of small height grown on the dividing
mud boundaries of rice fields. Nowadays it is grown along with sugarcane also. It is
used mainly as fodder for cattle. The green leaves are also used for cooking. In
Tamil Nad it is called aathi-keerai, obviously from agasti>agathi>aathi.
I am told that it has properties to cure mouth ulcer and therefore eaten with pulses.
In olden days taking it once in fifteen days was religiously followed. I
remember that when the Sankaracharya of Sringeri was camping at Kalady for several
months, the Mutt
employees were hunting for aathi-keerai for the
Acharya"s dwaadashi paarayanam. It is not generally cultivated in Kerala.
I do not know how it got the adjective Bengali. When I was living in Calcutta for many
years, I have seen this being sold in large quantities in the vegetable market.
Probably it is grown largely in Bengal.
It must have got the name agasti because just like agasti (agastya) it has a short
stature compared to other trees.
PKRamakrishnan
---------------------------------
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...Vis Tekumalla
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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