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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 tastulyaM or tattulyaM -
shrI-raama-raame (hn bhat)
2. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 vighnEshwarapaadapankaja
"Ganapati" (hn bhat)
3. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 vighnEshwarapaadapankaja
"Ganapati" (Vimala Sarma)
4. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 (default siva)
5. Manas + shiva and pronunciation [was: sanskrit Digest, Vol
54, Issue 6] (Naresh Cuntoor)
6. Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the 4th
act (Krishnan S)
7. Re: Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the
4th act (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
8. samasas (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
9. Re: Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the
4th act (Dr P Narayanan)
10. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 (Jonathan Gold)
11. Re: samasas (Dr P Narayanan)
12. Re: Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the
4th act (Krishnanand Mankikar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 07:43:44 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6 tastulyaM or
tattulyaM - shrI-raama-raame
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310910071913v4bcb65a1y9553f68581cd9...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Is it tastulyaM or tattulyaM at the end of shrI-raama-raame--
Good question. I have no suggestions in this regard. But for the popular
reading I assign this meaning:
"shasranama tattulyam" makes sahasranama equal to ramanama. And then,
ramanaamavaranane is a single compound, in which Parvati is qualified as
having her mouth purified by uttering the name of Rama.
"shasranamastulyam" makes "raamanaama " equal to *shasranaama. *For meaning,
both seem to be OK.
As it is cited in the context of Sahasranama, it is reasonable that *
sasranaama* is eulogized by comparing to the *ramanaama, *which is held in
high position in the verse. The reverse glorifies "ramanaama" once again,
comparing it to *sahasranaama* in question shifting the emphasis to *
raamanama* than *sahasranaama* which needs glorified in the context.
Scholars are welcome to offer their opinion, in this regard.
With regards
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:03:31 -1200
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
vighnEshwarapaadapankaja "Ganapati"
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310910072203s642ee856s27c80235b9db9...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
*The objective is: to interpret "vighnEshwarapaadapankaja" such that it
means "Ganapati" and not his lotus-feet.
*
For this, first, split the word vigneshwarapaadapnkaja as "the one
> whose paadapnkaja is vighenswara" - where "vighneshwara" should be
> interpreted as (not the famous "ruudHi" meaning Ganapathi),
> "vighnaanaam iishwarah" where "iishwarah" means "kartum akartum
> anyathhaa kartum cha shaktaH" - one who can make, demolish and alter -
> this should refer to His paadapnkaja (that is: paadapankaja which is
> capable of removing obstacles).
>
> So the meaning of the complete formation would be "the one whose lotus
> feet are capable of removing obstacles" - ie, GaNapati (finally !).
> THus we have, vighnEshwarapaadapankajaH = GaNapati. --Then the other
> adjectives fall in place.
>
> sarvaarthha_siddhidasyaasya
>
> vighnahartu.H padastute.H
>
> arthhasiddhir_vighnitEti
>
> chitramEtad vibhaati mE !!
>
>
> Very fine and improved solution. One more step forward than the solutions
put forth so far" ??????????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ????????
??????????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ??????????????
????????????????????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? "??????
????????????" ??? ??????? ??????????? ???????? ?????????, ???????
???????????
??????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????????
????????? ???????? ???????????????? ? ????????
????????? ?????????????????
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:39:54 +1100
From: "Vimala Sarma" <vsa...@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
vighnEshwarapaadapankaja "Ganapati"
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<!&!aaaaaaaaaaayaaaaaaaaahu8naacsvtkqhz0eaeir8ncgaaaeaaaamcqtoj7fqxeuvz+ah5nossbaaaaa...@bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks for that ? you are taking vighnEshwarapaadapankaja as a single compound
bahuvridhiH, composed of a genitive tatpuruSa (lord of removing obstacles) and
a karmad?rya (foot-lotus). This is the definitive solution!
Vimala
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of hn bhat
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 4:04 PM
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
vighnEshwarapaadapankaja "Ganapati"
The objective is: to interpret "vighnEshwarapaadapankaja" such that it
means "Ganapati" and not his lotus-feet.
For this, first, split the word vigneshwarapaadapnkaja as "the one
whose paadapnkaja is vighenswara" - where "vighneshwara" should be
interpreted as (not the famous "ruudHi" meaning Ganapathi),
"vighnaanaam iishwarah" where "iishwarah" means "kartum akartum
anyathhaa kartum cha shaktaH" - one who can make, demolish and alter -
this should refer to His paadapnkaja (that is: paadapankaja which is
capable of removing obstacles).
So the meaning of the complete formation would be "the one whose lotus
feet are capable of removing obstacles" - ie, GaNapati (finally !).
THus we have, vighnEshwarapaadapankajaH = GaNapati. --Then the other
adjectives fall in place.
sarvaarthha_siddhidasyaasya
vighnahartu.H padastute.H
arthhasiddhir_vighnitEti
chitramEtad vibhaati mE !!
Very fine and improved solution. One more step forward than the solutions put
forth so far" ??????????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ???????? ???????????????
?????? ????????? ???????????? ?????????????? ????????????????????? ???????
?????? ????? ???????? ??? "?????? ????????????" ??? ??????? ???????????
???????? ?????????, ??????? ???????????
??????????? ?????????? ???????????? ??????????
????????? ???????? ???????????????? ? ????????
????????? ?????????????????
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 03:47:52 -0500
From: default siva <shivausha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<341aa4e00910080147j2625a149ye45f321e67736...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dearest Jonathan Gold,
Thank you so very much for educating me about the difference between the
vowel symbols for the short a & the long a. But, Just To Make Sure, Do I
understand your statement correctly,
*"the first in each example being the (implicit) short a* *(? as compared
with ?? AND ? as compared with ??)*
,by assuming that the short a has no vowel symbol because
its presence is implied for every consonant (in other words all consonants
end in a short a naturally)? I hope I'm correct in assuming so as that would
make the most sense to me.
*I had to rewrite the above question 3 or 4 times so I please bare with my
ignorance , I assure you I am eager to lear*n.
Jonathan: Your explanation is a prime example of why I love Sanskrit so
much. It makes absolute sense. Its perfect , its intelligent & the structure
of the language is flawless!
I am still learning the vowels and vowel signs & how to pronounce them. I
have a bad habit of referring to the letters as their English equivalent
rather than the correct phoneme(? would the phonetic syllable assigned to
the letter be considered a phoneme? Please correct me if not.).
I practice writing the consonants in Devanagari but I worry that I'm getting
too far ahead of myself. For this reason I have felt like i'm stuck or
getting behind by spending all my time trying my best to 'master' the vowels
via writing the nagari character, the svara symbol & the transliteration for
each vowel.
Would I be advised to continue studying the vowels until I have completely
memorized how to write the devanagari letter/vowel symbol, how to
transliterate it & how to phonetically pronounce each of the vowels? I'm
really not sure how much time I should invest in memorizing the
pronunciations as I may commit the wrong sound to memory. Should I be
expected to memorize the vowels like this and then move on to memorize all
of the consonants prior to advancing my studies. Honestly, I am hoping that
others who learned on their own were able to use a reference / cheat sheet
while still moving forward in forming words and learning about conjuncts,
internal/external sandhi & all the other exciting features of this potent
programming language of reality.
----
Addressing Vimala , Regarding the correct grammar for manas + shiva. You
state that manas would become mano in the compound form. Would it be correct
to assume the result would be manoshiva (mano+shiva) ? In this case the
second word (shiva) would remain the same, is this correct?
I know that it will be a long time before I learn enough grammatical rules
to start compounding words . I dont even know if compounding two words is
the same thing or different than sandhi. Is combining two words (ie manas
and shiva) considered sandhi ? Or is sandhi only used in certain
circumstances? I may be confused as I thought internal sandhi dealt with
letters within one word and external with combining two words.
----
I hope that I have not over stepped my boundaries or polluted the greatness
& professionalism of this divine place of learning , by asking too many
redundant lessons. If I have in anyway done so, I do sincerely apologize. I
am just so excited to learn more.. Thank you all so much.
-shivaushadhi-
>From KS
newparadigmplants dot c o m
-----Original Message-----
From: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Gold
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 2:23 AM
To: Sanskrit Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Your kind assistance please: sandhi & vowel symbol
Short a = ?
Long a = ?
As you can see there is a second vertical line in the long a, the same
line that indicates the long a with any consonant as well:
? as compared with ??
? as compared with ??
and so on, the first in each example being the (implicit) short a, the
second having the vowel marker for the long a.
----
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Vimala Sarma" <vsa...@bigpond.com>
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:33:05 +1100
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Your kind assistance please: sandhi & vowel symbol
I think the compound form is mano
Vimala
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:32:10 -0400
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Manas + shiva and pronunciation [was: sanskrit
Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6]
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f4ce5f9f0910080532n2cb601edrc005969dc2814...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
[Reminder to all members: Please remember to use subject lines informatively.]
Dear Shivashuddhi,
> ??????????????? ,by assuming that the short a has no vowel symbol because
> its presence is implied for every consonant (in other words all consonants
> end in a short a naturally)? I hope I'm correct in assuming so as that would
> make the most sense to me.
That is correct.
> I practice writing the consonants in Devanagari but I worry that I'm getting
> too far ahead of myself. For this reason I have felt like i'm stuck or
> getting behind by spending all my time trying my best to 'master' the vowels
> via writing the nagari character, the svara symbol & the transliteration for
> each vowel.
>
Some of the questions you have raised (pronunciation, etc.) are best
answered orally rather than in an email. Otherwise the risk, as you
noted is learning the wrong thing. I would encourage you to seek out
such avenues. Even in the 'midwestern Bible belt', it is not difficult
to find people who can answer these questions.
> ----
>
> Addressing Vimala , Regarding the correct? grammar for manas + shiva. You
> state that manas would become mano in the compound form. Would it be correct
> to assume the result would be manoshiva (mano+shiva) ? In this case the
> second word (shiva) would remain the same, is this correct?
>
That is wrong.
Manas does not become mano in all situations. It depends on what
follows the 's' sound.
In this case, the form would be manaHshiva, the 'aH' is the visarga.
At any rate I don't know what you want to say here. If you trying to
refer to someone in whose mind Shiva resides, the compound word would
be shivamanaskaH.
> I know that it will be a long time before I learn enough grammatical rules
> to start compounding words . I dont even know if compounding two words is
> the same thing or different than sandhi. Is combining two words (ie manas
> and shiva) considered sandhi ? Or is sandhi only used in certain
> circumstances? I may be confused as I thought internal sandhi dealt with
> letters within one word and external with combining two words.
>
Sandhi and samaasa (compounding) are different.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 20:27:20 +0530
From: Krishnan S <krishnan.sank...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza
of the 4th act
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<833de22c0910080757y41bb6786qf2710a867150b...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Friends,
In a lecture on the works in Sanskrit, we were informed that
?Shakuntalaa?constitutes the best of all the works in Sanskrit and the
lecturer quoted
the following sloka,
kaaavyeShu naaaTakaM ramyam.
tatraaapi ca shakuntalaa..
tatraaapi ca caturtho~NkaH.
tatra shloka catuShTayam..
I attempted to get the 4th stanza of the 4th act of Shakuntalaa?. As the
text is in ?drama? format, I was not successful.
Would you please guide me on locating the 4th stanza of the 4th act, perhaps
indicating the starting words of that stanza, please?
Thanks
S. Krishnan
--------------
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <peeka...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th
stanza of the 4th act
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <230496.12586...@web95311.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
What I have heard is -
kaavyeshu naatakam ramyam
thathra saakunthalam matham /
thathraapi ch chathurthongah
thathra slokachathustayam //
Therefore there are four slokas in the fourth anga which are famous.
Only one I remember in part - shushruushaswa guruun etc. I do not remember the
entire sloka.
-----------------------------------
P.K. Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Krishnan S <krishnan.sank...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Krishnan S <krishnan.sank...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the
4th act
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:27 PM
Friends,
?
In a lecture on the works in Sanskrit, we were informed that ?Shakuntalaa?
constitutes the best of all the works in Sanskrit and the lecturer quoted the
following sloka,
?
kaaavyeShu naaaTakaM ramyam.
tatraaapi ca shakuntalaa..
tatraaapi ca caturtho~NkaH.
tatra shloka catuShTayam..
?
I attempted to get the 4th stanza of the 4th act of Shakuntalaa?. As the text
is in ?drama? format, I was not successful.
?
Would you please guide me on locating the 4th stanza of the 4th act, perhaps
indicating the starting words of that stanza, please?
?
Thanks
?
S. Krishnan
--------------
?
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <peeka...@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] samasas
To: sanskrit digest <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <658241.52196...@web95304.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dvandoham, dvigurapi chaaham,
Madgehe nityam avyayiibhaavah /
Tatpurusha karma dhaaraya
Yenaaham syaam bahuvriihih //
?
I am married, I have two cows,
In my house everyday I have nothing to spend /
Therefore, Oh man, tell me what I should do
To have more rice (wealth).
?
?
This sloka also describes the various samasas ?
?
Dvandva, dviguh, avyayiibhaava,
Tatpurusha, karmadhaaraya, and bahuvriihih.
?
?
-----------------------------------
P.K. Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com
Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger. Download
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dr P Narayanan <ayurvedanaraya...@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th
stanza of the 4th act
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <52888.60810...@web95304.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Mr Krishnan,
Actually, "tatra Sloka catushTayam." means 4 slokas from 4th act and not 4th
stanza of the 4th act. The four Slokas are:
1.pAtuM naH prathamaM....
2.asmAn sAdhu vicintya ....
3.yAsyatyadya .... and
4.SuSrUshasva gurUn ......
Hope this serves your purpose. if you want full verses please write.
Dr P Narayanan
________________________________
From: Krishnan S <krishnan.sank...@gmail.com>
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Sent: Thu, 8 October, 2009 8:27:20 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th stanza of the
4th act
Friends,
In a lecture on the works in Sanskrit, we were informed that
?Shakuntalaa?constitutes the best of all the works in Sanskrit and the lecturer
quoted the following sloka,
kaaavyeShu naaaTakaM ramyam.
tatraaapi ca shakuntalaa..
tatraaapi ca caturtho~NkaH.
tatra shloka catuShTayam..
I attempted to get the 4th stanza of the 4th act of Shakuntalaa?. As the text
is in ?drama? format, I was not successful.
Would you please guide me on locating the 4th stanza of the 4th act, perhaps
indicating the starting words of that stanza, please?
Thanks
S. Krishnan
--------------
Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Yahoo! Messenger. Download
Now! http://messenger.yahoo.com/download.php
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:50:56 -0700
From: Jonathan Gold <johnnycl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<54130da90910080850t7970e52amce15927ce446a...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Yes, with no other indication, each consonant is assumed to carry the
short 'a' that makes it pronounceable.
If you want the consonant with no vowel sound at all (I guess what
we'd call the end of a syllable) then it takes a vir?ma, like this:
??
??
The vir?ma is the straight downward line at the bottom right of the letter.
I learned the little Sanskrit I know by learning the devanagari script
first. It can be done in a few weeks of practice (an hour a day) spent
with a felt tip pen.
Look at the very helpful introduction here:
http://www.danam.co.uk/Sanskrit/Sanskrit Introductory/Sanskrit Introductory.html
[You may have to type that into your browser; there are space
characters between the words 'Sanskrit' and 'Introductory' both times
the combination appears.]
Therein Wikner describes how to use a correct 'nib' to do the
devanagari calligraphy; I just use a felt-tip calligraphic pen without
grinding the nib and it seems to work for my purposes anyway.
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:47 AM, default siva <shivausha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dearest Jonathan Gold,
>
> Thank you so very much for educating me about the difference between the
> vowel symbols for the short a & the long a. But, Just To Make Sure, Do I
> understand your statement correctly,
>
> "the first in each example being the (implicit) short a (? as compared with
> ??? AND ? as compared with ??)
>
> ??????????????? ,by assuming that the short a has no vowel symbol because
> its presence is implied for every consonant (in other words all consonants
> end in a short a naturally)? I hope I'm correct in assuming so as that would
> make the most sense to me.
>
--
Jonathan
Berkeley, CA
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:54:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dr P Narayanan <ayurvedanaraya...@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] samasas
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <493183.85031...@web95307.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
A small correction in the verse considering the metrical propriety.
dvandvo dvigurapi cAham,
madgehe nityamavyayIbhAvaH /
tatpurusha karma dhAraya
yenAham syAm bahuvIihiH // (The letter ham is superfluous.)
And the meaning of the second half seems to be : "Therefore Oh man, sustain
your work (effort), which actually made me a person of wealth".
Scholars please comment.
Dr P Narayanan
________________________________
From: P.K.Ramakrishnan <peeka...@yahoo.com>
To: sanskrit digest <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Thu, 8 October, 2009 8:53:17 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] samasas
Dvandoham, dvigurapi chaaham,
Madgehe nityam avyayiibhaavah /
Tatpurusha karma dhaaraya
Yenaaham syaam bahuvriihih //
I am married, I have two cows,
In my house everyday I have nothing to spend /
Therefore, Oh man, tell me what I should do
To have more rice (wealth).
This sloka also describes the various samasas ?
Dvandva, dviguh, avyayiibhaava,
Tatpurusha, karmadhaaraya, and bahuvriihih.
-----------------------------------
P.K. Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:54:39 +0530
From: Krishnanand Mankikar <kdmanki...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Kalidaasaa's Shakuntalaa - Query on the 4th
stanza of the 4th act
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
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<2b2948ae0910080924j538cbd2ak73f3edd8f2169...@mail.gmail.com>
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Dear Mr. Krishnan,
It is not the fourth stanza, but there are four stanzas which are supposed
to be the most beautiful/special noteworthy etc.
These are as follows:
4-6 : yaasyat adya shakuntala iti...
4- 9: paatum na prathamam
4-17: asmaan saadhu vicintya
4-18: shuSruuSasva guruun
These depict the way a feels while sending his daughter away after
marriage.There is advice to the bride as to how she should behave in her
usband's home and so on.
Regards,
Krishnanand
2009/10/8 Krishnan S <krishnan.sank...@gmail.com>
> Friends,
>
>
>
> In a lecture on the works in Sanskrit, we were informed that
> ?Shakuntalaa?constitutes the best of all the works in Sanskrit and the
> lecturer quoted
> the following sloka,
>
>
>
> kaaavyeShu naaaTakaM ramyam.
>
> tatraaapi ca shakuntalaa..
>
> tatraaapi ca caturtho~NkaH.
>
> tatra shloka catuShTayam..
>
>
>
> I attempted to get the 4th stanza of the 4th act of Shakuntalaa?. As the
> text is in ?drama? format, I was not successful.
>
>
>
> Would you please guide me on locating the 4th stanza of the 4th act,
> perhaps indicating the starting words of that stanza, please?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> S. Krishnan
>
> --------------
>
>
>
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