Re: Mockup proposal for a promoting James website

[Matthieu Baechler]

Hi Marc,


On 10/23/2016 05:09 PM, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
Hi Benoit -  (I will follow your precedent of top posting.) 


Please don't !

No, the trouble with the current organization of the James website is 
that the only way to navigate it is to use the hierarchical tree 
structured table of contents that is found on the left hand side of 
the pages. This can make it difficult to discover where a particular 
topic is addressed, especially if/when that topic is found in a 
location that the developer thought was appropriate, but not intuitive 
in the mind of a user.  For example, I wanted to discover what mailets 
are provided with James. My initial guess was to navigate to the "User 
Manual" > Configure James >  Mailet Container  and almost missed the 
tiny link provided/embedded at the bottom of the page to the list of 
mailets.  Then and only then did I discover that this list was located 
in a surprising location under "Developers Corner" which I had assumed 
would be topics strictly of interest to James developers, not to 
users.  (I am NOT criticizing this particular layout, just using it as 
an example of how using a tree hierarchy must be navigated, sometimes 
through many many branches, in order to discover where a particular 
topic is documented.)


Using search engines can further complicate matters, especially on 
sites such as James where multiple versions of documents are stored. 
One can easily and inadvertently land on a document that is 
inappropriate for the version of the James that he/she is using, and 
waste a lot of time chasing a wrong answer. (I know, I have done it 
myself)


What a site map is/does is to flatten the presentation of an entire 
website into a single page which contains links to EVERY web page 
associated with that website. (including orphaned web pages which 
sometimes crop up) That both makes it easy to see a high level view of 
the entire website, all at once, and provides a lot of additional 
clues as to the organizational model and where one may find documents 
on a particular subject. One measure of the ease of use of a website 
is to ask how many clicks does it take, to discover the answer to a 
question or reach a goal on that website. A site map can reduce this 
to a single click. Site maps are often used on large complex web sites 
and I am sure you can find many examples. Also I have seen tools that 
develop a site map automatically, some do it externally by chasing 
links, others do it internally on the servers by chasing documents and 
directories also, although these tools do have their limitations and 
shortcomings especially if/when a web site serves dynamic content.


I am not asking that James use a site map in lieu of the hierarchical 
table of contents it now has, just in addition to it.

I understand your point but I think the main problem is that :

1. none of us has experience into site map
2. we use a generated static site with old technologies
3. we are going the mix that with yet another static site technology

If you think you can tackle this challenge, you are more than welcome, 
we'll try to help us on that.


Anyway, keep sending us your comments, they are very valuable.

Cheers,

--
Matthieu Baechler

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Re: Mockup proposal for a promoting James website

[Marc Chamberlin]

Hi Benoit -  (I will follow your precedent of top posting.) No, the 
trouble with the current organization of the James website is that the 
only way to navigate it is to use the hierarchical tree structured table 
of contents that is found on the left hand side of the pages. This can 
make it difficult to discover where a particular topic is addressed, 
especially if/when that topic is found in a location that the developer 
thought was appropriate, but not intuitive in the mind of a user.  For 
example, I wanted to discover what mailets are provided with James. My 
initial guess was to navigate to the "User Manual" > Configure James >  
Mailet Container  and almost missed the tiny link provided/embedded at 
the bottom of the page to the list of mailets.  Then and only then did I 
discover that this list was located in a surprising location under 
"Developers Corner" which I had assumed would be topics strictly of 
interest to James developers, not to users.  (I am NOT criticizing this 
particular layout, just using it as an example of how using a tree 
hierarchy must be navigated, sometimes through many many branches, in 
order to discover where a particular topic is documented.)


Using search engines can further complicate matters, especially on sites 
such as James where multiple versions of documents are stored. One can 
easily and inadvertently land on a document that is inappropriate for 
the version of the James that he/she is using, and waste a lot of time 
chasing a wrong answer. (I know, I have done it myself)


What a site map is/does is to flatten the presentation of an entire 
website into a single page which contains links to EVERY web page 
associated with that website. (including orphaned web pages which 
sometimes crop up) That both makes it easy to see a high level view of 
the entire website, all at once, and provides a lot of additional clues 
as to the organizational model and where one may find documents on a 
particular subject. One measure of the ease of use of a website is to 
ask how many clicks does it take, to discover the answer to a question 
or reach a goal on that website. A site map can reduce this to a single 
click. Site maps are often used on large complex web sites and I am sure 
you can find many examples. Also I have seen tools that develop a site 
map automatically, some do it externally by chasing links, others do it 
internally on the servers by chasing documents and directories also, 
although these tools do have their limitations and shortcomings 
especially if/when a web site serves dynamic content.


I am not asking that James use a site map in lieu of the hierarchical 
table of contents it now has, just in addition to it.


 Marc...

On 10/22/2016 11:05 PM, Benoit Tellier wrote:

Hi marc,

This is the landing page for james.apache.org

The Documentation link will point to today's james.apache.org's content,
achieving what you want. (Horizontal nav bar will allow to reach each
and every subproject documentation, and James logo will get you back to
the first page)

Were you suggesting something like this?

Regards,

Benoit

Le 22/10/2016 à 16:29, Marc Chamberlin a écrit :

On 10/18/2016 6:42 AM, Laura Royet wrote:

Hi everyone,

I have been working for a few weeks now on a promoting website for James.
Today, I would like to share with you my proposal mockup : please see
file attached in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-1837

The aim is to have this page as the James website home page.
In this way, a user interested by James (curious developers and
network administrators for example) will directly access tofundamental
information about the product and could try it thanks to the Getting
Started part.
He will also find quickly all the links to contact James Community.

And what about the current James website? Actually, the marketing
website menu bar contains the link "Documentation" leading to it.
For your information, I am currently working on cleaning the existing
website in order not to have duplicates with the marketing page and
also in order to adopt the same graphic charter.

Thanks in advance for your feedbacks.

Regards,


Hi Laura -  May I suggest adding a link to a site map so that all the
all the web pages associated with and maintained by Apache James are
discover-able from a single point? The site map(s) should be organized
by version releases also, which is often the drawback of using Google
searches that can lead to finding outdated information..

  Marc...



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Re: Mockup proposal for a promoting James website

[Benoit Tellier]

Hi marc,

This is the landing page for james.apache.org

The Documentation link will point to today's james.apache.org's content,
achieving what you want. (Horizontal nav bar will allow to reach each
and every subproject documentation, and James logo will get you back to
the first page)

Were you suggesting something like this?

Regards,

Benoit

Le 22/10/2016 à 16:29, Marc Chamberlin a écrit :
> On 10/18/2016 6:42 AM, Laura Royet wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I have been working for a few weeks now on a promoting website for James.
>> Today, I would like to share with you my proposal mockup : please see
>> file attached in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-1837
>>
>> The aim is to have this page as the James website home page.
>> In this way, a user interested by James (curious developers and
>> network administrators for example) will directly access tofundamental
>> information about the product and could try it thanks to the Getting
>> Started part.
>> He will also find quickly all the links to contact James Community.
>>
>> And what about the current James website? Actually, the marketing
>> website menu bar contains the link "Documentation" leading to it.
>> For your information, I am currently working on cleaning the existing
>> website in order not to have duplicates with the marketing page and
>> also in order to adopt the same graphic charter.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your feedbacks.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
> 
> Hi Laura -  May I suggest adding a link to a site map so that all the
> all the web pages associated with and maintained by Apache James are
> discover-able from a single point? The site map(s) should be organized
> by version releases also, which is often the drawback of using Google
> searches that can lead to finding outdated information..
> 
>  Marc...
> 
> 

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Re: Mockup proposal for a promoting James website

[Marc Chamberlin]

On 10/18/2016 6:42 AM, Laura Royet wrote:

Hi everyone,

I have been working for a few weeks now on a promoting website for James.
Today, I would like to share with you my proposal mockup : please see 
file attached in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-1837


The aim is to have this page as the James website home page.
In this way, a user interested by James (curious developers and 
network administrators for example) will directly access tofundamental 
information about the product and could try it thanks to the Getting 
Started part.

He will also find quickly all the links to contact James Community.

And what about the current James website? Actually, the marketing 
website menu bar contains the link "Documentation" leading to it.
For your information, I am currently working on cleaning the existing 
website in order not to have duplicates with the marketing page and 
also in order to adopt the same graphic charter.


Thanks in advance for your feedbacks.

Regards,



Hi Laura -  May I suggest adding a link to a site map so that all the 
all the web pages associated with and maintained by Apache James are 
discover-able from a single point? The site map(s) should be organized 
by version releases also, which is often the drawback of using Google 
searches that can lead to finding outdated information..


 Marc...


--
"The Truth is out there" - Spooky


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Mockup proposal for a promoting James website

[Laura Royet]

Hi everyone,

I have been working for a few weeks now on a promoting website for James.
Today, I would like to share with you my proposal mockup : please see 
file attached in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-1837


The aim is to have this page as the James website home page.
In this way, a user interested by James (curious developers and network 
administrators for example) will directly access tofundamental 
information about the product and could try it thanks to the Getting 
Started part.

He will also find quickly all the links to contact James Community.

And what about the current James website? Actually, the marketing 
website menu bar contains the link "Documentation" leading to it.
For your information, I am currently working on cleaning the existing 
website in order not to have duplicates with the marketing page and also 
in order to adopt the same graphic charter.


Thanks in advance for your feedbacks.

Regards,

--

Laura Royet


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Re: JAMES website?

[Eric Charles]

Web site is atm available under http://james.apache.org/www
Should be back under http://james.apache.org after next git pull.

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Matthieu Baechler 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You can retrieve sources and javadoc from maven is you only need that.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Matthieu Baechler
>
> Le 26/09/2016 à 05:48, Jerry Malcolm a écrit :
>
>> I understand how spf works.  I need the javadoc to the jspf classes so I
>> can program to them.
>>
>>
>> On 9/25/2016 1:20 PM, Luuk wrote:
>>
>>> On 25-09-16 19:52, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the info.  I'm curious, though, why the need to take the old
 site down before having the new site up.

 I'm trying to find the documentation for using jspf.  Is there an
 alternate site that might have that documentation until the new james site
 is up?



>>> not james specific, but specific to spf:
>>> http://www.openspf.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13081 - Release Date:
>>> 09/25/16
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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>
>

Re: JAMES website?

[Matthieu Baechler]

Hi,

You can retrieve sources and javadoc from maven is you only need that.

Regards,

--
Matthieu Baechler

Le 26/09/2016 à 05:48, Jerry Malcolm a écrit :
I understand how spf works.  I need the javadoc to the jspf classes so 
I can program to them.



On 9/25/2016 1:20 PM, Luuk wrote:

On 25-09-16 19:52, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
Thanks for the info.  I'm curious, though, why the need to take the 
old site down before having the new site up.


I'm trying to find the documentation for using jspf.  Is there an 
alternate site that might have that documentation until the new 
james site is up?





not james specific, but specific to spf:
http://www.openspf.org/



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Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13081 - Release Date: 
09/25/16



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Re: JAMES website?

[Jerry Malcolm]

I understand how spf works.  I need the javadoc to the jspf classes so I 
can program to them.



On 9/25/2016 1:20 PM, Luuk wrote:

On 25-09-16 19:52, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
Thanks for the info.  I'm curious, though, why the need to take the 
old site down before having the new site up.


I'm trying to find the documentation for using jspf.  Is there an 
alternate site that might have that documentation until the new james 
site is up?





not james specific, but specific to spf:
http://www.openspf.org/



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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13081 - Release Date: 
09/25/16



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Re: JAMES website?

[Luuk]

On 25-09-16 19:52, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
Thanks for the info.  I'm curious, though, why the need to take the 
old site down before having the new site up.


I'm trying to find the documentation for using jspf.  Is there an 
alternate site that might have that documentation until the new james 
site is up?





not james specific, but specific to spf:
http://www.openspf.org/



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Re: JAMES website?

[Jerry Malcolm]

Thanks for the info.  I'm curious, though, why the need to take the old 
site down before having the new site up.


I'm trying to find the documentation for using jspf.  Is there an 
alternate site that might have that documentation until the new james 
site is up?



On 9/25/2016 12:38 PM, Ioan Eugen Stan wrote:

I just read an email from Eric Charles. He moved the website to
gitpubsub and was working on publishing it.

Maybe this is the reason?


On 25.09.2016 19:39, Jerry Malcolm wrote:

Is the JAMES website getting some work done?  I get a 404 on
http://james.apache.org/


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Re: JAMES website?

[Ioan Eugen Stan]

I just read an email from Eric Charles. He moved the website to
gitpubsub and was working on publishing it.

Maybe this is the reason?


On 25.09.2016 19:39, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
> Is the JAMES website getting some work done?  I get a 404 on
> http://james.apache.org/
> 
> 
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> 

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JAMES website?

[Jerry Malcolm]

Is the JAMES website getting some work done?  I get a 404 on 
http://james.apache.org/



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