Agree
At 05:32 PM 1/11/2008, Jeff Steifel wrote:
Too bad Tom,
This has been at a very good thread. Different ideas have been
presented, hopefully some of the opinions hit there mark. Also
what's nice is that people are talking. It's been a while since that happened.
Tom Nagel wrote:
So
Guys,
Did I miss something in Tim's original post. I do not recall anyware in there
it mentioned anything about making it where everybody gets to win. I believe
somewhere along the way all you guys have go in your heads that Tim's intent
was to make everybody a winner.
As much as this group
Since it seems we need to make it interesting for the next
generation to participate in our hobby, perhaps we should just hand
out participation ribbons to everyone? Or perhaps the Top 3rd get a
Blue Ribbon, Middle 3rd get Red Ribbons, and the last 3rd or
thermalling challenged get White
I don't care who you are, now that's funny no gray cup in the Europe ,,but
true
- Original Message -
From: Tom Coppmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Soaring@airage.commailto:Soaring@airage.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Yes
Will it be, I beat Gordy buttons for everyone!?
Wow, I feel better already. :-)
At 10:53 AM 1/11/2008, Jack Strother wrote:
I think we should try this at the Next SOAR Contest.
Heck Buttons for everybody, we all show up and win,
then off for Margs !!!
Hey no equipment issues either
--
Well said Tom !
Tom Copp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow lots of stuff here.
In general contests outside the USA are well attended. Contests attendance
inside the USA is diminishing. Why?
Outside the USA they typically fly F3J or a local version of F3J with F3B
winches that the pilots supply
I think we should try this at the Next SOAR Contest.
Heck Buttons for everybody, we all show up and win,
then off for Margs !!!
Hey no equipment issues either
--
Jack Strother
Granger, IN
LSF 2948
LSF Level V #117
LSF Official 1996 - 2004
CSS Gold
--
A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed that the Munich F3k Contest
registration opened up last week. I was considering going over and was trying
to organize it with some friends. The competition was full in 3 days 110
confirmed 15 on a back up list. I have seen this over and over
Original Message
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
From: Tom Copp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, January 11, 2008 9:44 am
To: Soaring@airage.com
Yes, I see the same thing too. The Europeans make F3J and F3B the F1 of
soaring and because they do they bring in the new guys.
You
]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
Soaring@airage.commailto:Soaring@airage.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed that the Munich F3k Contest
registration opened up last week. I
LOL.
Does this mean I will have watch the same dudes getting old and still
winning?
DP will have to think of new naming schemes, I don't think Old Gas
Bag will sell too well. Perhaps Skegless will. :-)
At 11:44 AM 1/11/2008, Tom Copp wrote:
Yes, I see the same thing too. The Europeans
Wow lots of stuff here.
In general contests outside the USA are well attended. Contests attendance
inside the USA is diminishing. Why?
Outside the USA they typically fly F3J or a local version of F3J with F3B
winches that the pilots supply btw. They are strict about being on the line
in time;
Is it the type of Society or contest formats that are changing the
competitive soaring environment? Overall USA Club
membership/participation is down.
From my perspective the Europeans have more vacation time and
spendable income than USA residents have experienced in over 30
years.
This modern generation seems to think everybody has to win. Cheat if
necessary but win. I don't feel that way. Winning isn't necessary
but competition is. I don't look at who beat me. I look at all the
people I beat. Placing 17th in unlimited at the Nats with a Sailaire
against all the
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Munich F3K German Open had entries starting 12/1/2007 per the
spreadsheet. It was only this Monday that a note was sent by Phil
Barnes telling us that there were 85 entries already and if you wanted
to go, you needed to submit an app
for years.. Its time to read the
wall.
Tom
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
A note in support of Tom's comments, I noticed
I was thinking about stretching out the wingspan on my skeeter to make
it a 2 meter..
Denny
Tom Nagel wrote:
So far I have deleted approximately 793 RCSE messages on the topic
of Contest Format, without reading any of them after the first one
or two.
How about a new thread?
In a message dated 1/11/2008 4:11:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This modern generation seems to think everybody has to win. Cheat if
necessary but win. I don't feel that way. Winning isn't necessary but
competition is.
Great statements, but I think
Last time I checked this was a very conservative idea perpetuated by ignorant
soccer moms living beyond their means behind gates in the burbs... No?
Craig... PS. How did Politics get into Contest Format and uniform launching
ideas ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The level playing field is a
Here's a format that's fair to everyone and no hurt feelings at the
end of the contest.
We'll let everyone launch whenever they want and fly for whatever
they can accomplish. When they land we'll rub their heads and tell
them what a great job they did and give them a max score. If they
- Original Message
From: Tim Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...in a real
contest, 9 points or less out of ten, which corresponds to 900 or less out
of 1000, is a low score.
So what do you do when you have a typical OVSS field where 4 out of the 7 guys
come within
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest format
- Original Message
From: Tim Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...in a real contest, 9 points or less out of ten, which corresponds to
900 or less out of 1000, is a low score.
So what do you do when you have a typical OVSS
- Original Message -
From: Steve Schneider
To: RCSE
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest format
Maybe we should just do politically correct soaring contests and not keep
score, like many kids sports programs these days. We wouldn't want to hurt any
Tim,
I see and understand where you are going, and respectfully disagree. I fly
model sailplanes to compete and so a contest to me is a test of skills among
peers.
Like Golfing I work at every aspect of flying to improve my game in order to
get that edge on the less skilled, the less
Tim, well done. I really like the idea and the execution. I might try this
or a variant at one of our local contests.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am a competitor. I like the challenge. I
love MoM flight scoring, and can't get enough of FAI style flying. What I
really like about this
Rick, Good Points... What kind of Cookies are We talking here. Larry Jolly
Here's a format that's fair to everyone and no hurt feelings at the
end of the contest.
We'll let everyone launch whenever they want and fly for whatever
they can accomplish. When they land we'll rub their heads
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't
that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are
within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then
zero flight
I
know... :)
Jim
Jim Monaco
Rocky Mountain Soaring Association
Denver, CO
http://www.rmsadenver.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:25 PM
To: RCSE (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Why not just have
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't
that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if
I hope you meant zero the landing points, not flight points.
Here on the east coast, and certainly at the NATs, there have been days
where even the top guys will miss a flight. Zeroing a flight is
ridiculous if you don't make the 10, because even those guys would miss.
I assume you are
It's only a faster pace (getting a chance to fly again, that is) for those
pilots who don't/can't max. the task times, correct? If everyone is
maxing the task times than it is no faster than the traditional MoM format
if I am understanding these rules correctly.
With bigger planes and their
This is Match play, just like they do in FF. You either max the time,
or you are out!
It does not matter what time you set, just that it has to be maxed. If
you want to add difficulty, then just increase the flight time 1 or 2
minutes per round.
We did a type of this contest in DLG at Visalia
Nope, I MEAN no flight points because you never made the 10 minutes to
be able to qualify for any sort of landing. Well..I guess it eliminated
landing points too.
Brutal!
Original Message
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu
-mail) soaring@airage.com
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing
attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't
Message
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
From: Jeff Steifel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, January 10, 2008 2:23 pm
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "RCSE (E-mail)" soaring@airage.com
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi gang, I just gotta chime in here.
I know Tim and have flown with him and the rest of the SLNT crew as
well as Tulsoar back in the day..I appreciate what Tim has thrown
out here for us to chew on..no one has said that anyone should
use this format in ALL contests, but it
At 02:40 PM 1/9/2008, Tim Bennett wrote:
The pace of the contest is improved because once there is only one in the
air, there is no value in continuing to fly so the winner lands and the next
group can fly. No burying the group while everyone waits. Timers are
required to communicate about the
At 06:29 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
Interesting twist on seeded MoM. But one of the things I always
enjoyed in this contest format was getting a good burial in a contest. Jim
This is the thing I hate most about MOM. I never liked the idea of
shafting a fellow competitor. It always seemed to
Shafting the other fellow competitors by completing the task
time? Unethical? ;-)
I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest
event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting to maximize my score.
At 07:16 PM 1/9/2008, Chuck Anderson wrote:
I never liked the
Jim Bacus wrote:
Shafting the other fellow competitors by completing the task
time? Unethical? ;-)
I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest
event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting to
maximize my score.
Jim makes a valid point while at the same
Absolutely... I agree with Jim.
Throwing dirt their way or being buried is part of the sport.
What if you didn't have man on man, the results would be the same
anyway. I'm not sure I understand why you would bring the pilots down
early. You actually compress the groups scores.
James V. Bacus
Well Tim, you just lost me with your last comments. I guess the home town
crowd has gotten soft in Texas (was raised in Arlington). Here in OVSS land you
live and die to get the low save, downwind escape, faint read that no one else
gets. We are flying 6 to 7 rounds a day of 10-13 minute
should be
worth just a single point more than one of the 5 minute guys.
No matter what the format, it sure beats work :-)
JE
--
John Erickson
LSF V #122
From: Tim Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:52:53 -0600
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Maybe we should just do politically correct soaring contests and not keep
score, like many kids sports programs these days. We wouldn't want to hurt
any ones feelings, now would we?
On Jan 9, 2008 10:53 PM, tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Original message:
Your heart is in the right
There is some validity to your point about penalizing the 6 except that in a
real contest, 9 points or less out of ten, which corresponds to 900 or
less out of 1000, is a low score. Once the issue is decided lets start the
next flight group.
-Original Message-
From: tony estep
, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
Jim Bacus wrote:
Shafting the other fellow competitors by completing the task
time? Unethical? ;-)
I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest
event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting
Tim,
Thanks for bringing some new ideas concepts to our beloved sport. I
don't agree with everything you said, but you presented your case well.
Open dialog without egos and emotion based responses will do us all well.
Jon Stone
PS. Yeah, I know egos and emotion based responses are par
Joe,
What a great idea :-) That's right up their with my My child was prisoner of
the month Bumper Sticker...
Craig
Joe Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why dont we just award
everybody a first place sticker and a cool ride in the special bus just for
entering the joy luck
that, get me a shovel... I love burying you guys... ;-)
Darylperkins.com LLC.
1600 McCulloch Blvd. 5B
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
www.darylperkins.com
Original Message
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
From: Craig Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, January 09, 2008 10:18
of the contest.
Tim
-Original Message-
From: Daryl Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:27 PM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
No need to even fly at the contest. Let's play paper/ scissors/ rock,
determine a winner, and let
:27 PM
To: soaring@airage.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Contest Format
No need to even fly at the contest. Let's play paper/ scissors/ rock,
determine a winner, and let the drinking begin. Or no matter what
the task target time is, we'll just all agree to fly 3's. Heck, even
Gordy can make 3... off
.
-Original Message-
From: Marc Gellart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:11 PM
To: Tim Bennett
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
Tim,
Good idea, and you had the perfect conditions for this format of
MOM, but would this have worked so well if the conditions
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