I apologize for not remembering which edition, but the NFPA 13Handbook has a
picture of a pan construction ("waffle") under the smooth ceiling section.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Dennis Wilson via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 5:49 PM
To:
Haven't been able to send a picture.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Fpdcdesign via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 4:46 PM
To: Sprinklerforum
Cc: Fpdcdesign
Subject: Re: Pan-Type Construction
Is this is what you are looking at?
Is this is what you are looking at?
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-2080) (ofc)
860-554-7054 (tel:860-554-7054) (fax)
860-608-4559 (tel:860-608-4559) (cell)
>
> On Feb 1, 2021 at
If it's not a concrete tee, then I don't think you're going to be able to
exceed 22" from the deck.
-Kyle M
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Dennis Wilson via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 3:08 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc:
Around 20", so the deflector is over 22" the top of the pans.
But only 4" below the stems.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Dale Wingard via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 4:03 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Dale Wingard
Subject:
Steve,
I don't agree that Pan slabs are smooth ceilings. If the pans are less than
300 sf, they are more than likely considered panel construction and would be
obstructed. Most of the 'Pan' that I have ever seen falls into that
category.
Cliff Whitfield, SET
President
Fire Design, Inc.
600 W.
They are not Concrete tees or joists.
They are big open boxes.
-Original Message-
From: Steve Leyton
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 4:00 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Dennis Wilson
Subject: RE: Pan-Type Construction
Do you mean Tee or Double-Tee construction?
I am picturing a concrete waffle pattern. What is the depth of the pan?
Regards,
Dale F. Wingard, SET
Designer Commercial/Marine Division
NICET IV #76284
Water-based Systems
Hiller Systems
A Division of The Hiller Companies, Inc.
3751 Joy Springs Drive
Mobile, AL 36693
c: 251.509.7108
o:
Do you mean Tee or Double-Tee construction?Pan slabs are PIP, with and
without metal decks, smooth ceiling by definition.
Steve L.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Wilson via Sprinklerforum
Sent:
Would anyone know what the maximum depth is allowed in concrete pan-type
construction?
I have a job with exist. sprinklers installed along the bottom of the stems
with pendents.
The AHJ is questioning whether sprinklers are needed in each pocket.
Pockets are around 6' square w/ 8" wide stems
Contact one of the foam manufactures of the product. They can give you all the
info you need.
Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection |
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS
-Original
I'm looking at a small hangar (Group II Hangar) that the client is interested
in protecting with SFFF (synthetic fluorine-free foam) as opposed to the
standard AFFF closed-head system. Are there any standards that address the
design criteria for these foams, or does each individual manufacturer
I will counter your "is there a legally defendable argument" with "is there a
feasible fire scenario on a tennis court that would not be adequately
controlled by marginally obstructed ESFR sprinklers?"
I mean, you only need a legally defendable argument if something bad happens,
right?
I say
Thanks for the information, now the discussions begin.
Thank You
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone 604-888-0318
Cel: 604-790-0938
Email jcrawf...@phaserfire.ca
Web: www.phaserfire.ca
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Kevin Hall via Sprinklerforum
Here is the language from SR 1129 that Pete was referring to:
14.2.7* Occupancy and Hazard.
ESFR sprinklers designed to meet any criteria in Chapter 23 or Chapter 24
shall be permitted to protect light and ordinary hazard occupancies.
*A.14.2.7 It is not the intent of this section to
The 2022 edition should have language that allows this unless it gets
overturned by a CAM. See NFPA 13 2nd draft 14.2.7 (Second Revision 1129).
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Art Tiroly via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021
I had a similar problem but worked it out with AHJ and he allowed the
obstructions with the ESFR's.
Art Tiroly
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of James Crawford via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021
Ditto the request. JSM
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 12:05 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matt Grise
Subject: [External] listed pressure relief valve
Does anyone know of a ½" listed
IMHO, if ESFRs are installed, ESFR obstruction rules should apply regardless of
how they are currently using it. Is there a legally defendable argument for
ignoring the ESFR rules?
Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection |
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East
When I run into situations like this I like to do 2 things: 1 - make sure the
general building structure (wind bracing/roof steel, RTUs, primary lights,
etc.) meet the ESFR criteria so that if they put racking back in, they don't
have to re-do the sprinklers. 2 - make sure the owner and GC are
WE have a warehouse space that is protected with ESFR sprinkler heads, the
space is being used by an indoor tennis club.
The want to add some additional HVAC and some of the new ducting would obstruct
the ESFR sprinkler heads.
My question is do we still need to work to the same obstruction
Or, you could just buy from Reliable...
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 9:13 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Steve Leyton ;
Matt--We (Reliable) have 175, 185, 210, 260, and 310 psi versions listed.
https://www.reliablesprinkler.com/files/bulletins/257.pdf?x32667
Cary Webber CFPS Director, Technical Services
Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Co., Inc.
1470 Smith Grove Road, Liberty, SC 29657
Tel: 864-843-5161
I don't think (and the tech data sheet implies) that the higher pressures are
listed, which was Matt's inquiry. I've been through this with Cla-Valve on a
couple of their products and I have a suggestion: When a manufacturer has
variants of a listed product that aren't listed, it's usually
I might be reading their literature incorrectly - but it seems like the 175psi
is the only listed option?
Matt
-Original Message-
From: Michael Walters
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 11:07 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matt Grise
Subject: RE: listed pressure
I believe this might be what you're looking for.
http://www.testandrain.com/downloads/pdf/SellSheetM7000-7200.pdf
Michael Walters
Designer
Vulcan Fire Protection
2600 D State Route 568
Carey, Ohio 43316
419-396-3535 Office
419-396-7581 Fax
419-721-4202 Cell
micha...@vulcanfireprotection-oh.com
Does anyone know of a ½" listed pressure relief valve that comes set higher
than 175? The brands we typically come across are available in other pressures,
but not listed.
Thanks!
Matt
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Yes, the plastic is the material first exposed to the fire/ignition source.
Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection |
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS
-Original Message-
From:
I just found this in NFPA-13 2013 Table A.5.6.4.1 that Paper products,
uncartoned and plastic wrapped is Group A Plastic Commodities.
Is this correct?
Mike
From: Sprinklerforum on behalf
of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 8:38 AM
Sorry - just looked at the NFPA 13 criteria for tissue. I don't see any options
to fit those criteria.
Maybe they could store it in boxes? Have you looked into FM criteria?
Matt
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday,
Depends on the packaging. If it is in boxes, class 4? If it is loose, then
maybe lightweight rolled paper?
Matt
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Mike Hairfield via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 7:30 AM
To: Sprinkler Forum
Cc: Mike Hairfield
Has anyone designed a warehouse of Tissue Paper wrapped in Plastic maximum
storage height of 25'-0" high
in a building that is 38'-0" high.
I couldn't find any design criteria in NFPA-13 for this commodity.
Mike
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