[Sprinklerforum] Re: Interstitial Heads

Why yes, there is. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: (602) 337-0721<(602)%20337-0721> C: (307) 236-8249<(307)%20236-8249> matthew.will...@ferguson.com From: Brian Harris Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 6:37 AM To:

[Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Back Feeding Through the FDC?

“Check” is in the mail. < DID YOU GET IT?!?!?  Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager – Southwest Region FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire

[Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Back Feeding Through the FDC?

If you did not put in “check snoots’, or check valves behind each in this configuration, then the water is circulating back thru these to the truck. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipe Calculations

Once again, proving membership has its benefits! Thanks Steve. I like it. Honestly, what are the concerns? We are adding 250gpm, to a large type of system. Unless in extreme circumstances, there is no real cost impact. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Exposed BlazeMaster

>From description, vertically, no. Horizontally, subject to stipulations on page 10. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager - Southwest Region FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Concrete Beams -- NFPA 13, 2016

I believe they are different. In fact, there is a definition that a “tee”, has a bottom width less than the top. Not at a book, but I am sure someone will chime in shortly. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Hose Valves in Townhome Apartments

Yes. The EOR said so after the fact.. Price the change, add the valves. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager – Southwest Region FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Phase Converter

“assuming there’s a 460/3 ph in the pump room.” Steve L. That is what I am wondering. If they have the wrong step-down in there and are looking for alternate ways to save $%$$. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Phase Converter

Well, I guess since a jockey pump is not required, your options are a bit more open. I think you should bow out of the discussion, telling them what the jockey pump requires, and nothing more. This is no place for you and I to be involved in decision making. They have those electrical people

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Phase Converter

Can they not just piggy-back from the Main Fire Pump panel? I had always thought with the Fire Pump power being SUSE rated, that that is what they have always done. Hence the reason the Jockey Pump ratings always matched the Fire Pumps. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Braded Flex Drops

This is a great question. I think that the initial years these were used, they were kept short for price and hydraulic considerations. So relocating to another tile will be very limited. I see now, most have shifted to a longer drop as supply and demand has balanced some. So, I think this

[Sprinklerforum] Re: 1" Armover Restraint

It’s a general hanger requirement. Not in the seismic section.. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager – Southwest Region FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Air venting

To answer your question Todd, The SYSTEM is required to be vented each time the system is drained and refilled. The check valve or physics do not come into play. The 2-story example you provided is only one System. Therefore, if drained, then refilled, it would be the entirety of the System.

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Air venting

I thought so. If we look, the entire book, along with NFPA 25 is essentially per system based. Another such example below. R/ Mat 29.6.1.1 Such general information shall be provided with a permanently marked weatherproof metal or rigid plastic sign, secured with corrosion-resistant wire,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Air venting

8.1.5 Air Venting. A single air vent with a connection conforming to Section 16.7 shall be provided on each wet pipe system utilizing metallic pipe. (See

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Air venting

You are correct. The air vent is required on each wet pipe system. If we look at the definitions in chapter 3, you have separate systems each floor. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Paint Line-Furnaces

Whenever I have something in front of me, from the ones ultimately responsible, I dare not venture past that due to it then becoming my (your) problem. I understand the concern, but we do not want to expose our neck either by superseding what could be deemed the criteria from the AHJ.. R/

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Spray Foam Insulation

I did that once when I was told , I think isonene or something or other would not burn that was used in this application. It di dnot. I tried really hard too. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J.

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Spray Foam Insulation

Unless you are getting paid. Then get cutting!  Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager – Southwest Region FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Spray Foam Insulation

Sounds like the AHJ needs to be talking to the spray foam folks. Too often we take on problems that are clearly not ours. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Manager –

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Best fire protection solution for dirty environment

I see no basis for placing covers over the sprinklers other than the intent already provided for flammables. I would see a maintenance nightmare in making sure something like “thin” or “.003” is maintained. It is dust. Buy a good air compressor and have someone blow it off for a little extra

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pump Suction Components

Given the availability of grooved OS valves now, I think it boils down to cost more than anything else for the adaption from FLNG to GRV. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Elbows in pump suction

Todd, It mentions Flange to Flange, so I have always taken it as linear. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned

[Sprinklerforum] Re: 2nd FDC Instead of a Hydrant ???

No worries. Like Travis said, very the AHJ's expectations. This is a separate piping run from any interior system. R/ Ma Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON

[Sprinklerforum] Re: 2nd FDC Instead of a Hydrant ???

I think you are saying FDC, what I heard from the description is wall hydrant. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned

[Sprinklerforum] Re: 2nd FDC Instead of a Hydrant ???

Nope. Exterior fire operations are as or more important than internal. Seen this many times for different applications. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Spray On Insulation

Steel, no. Plastic, probably.. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire & Fabrication, LLC 401

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Optional sprinkler protection in garage without sprinklers elsewhere

Interesting discussion. I will quote Mr. Church, "How will that sound in front of a jury?" 13D is the minimum. Personally, I would not recommend ANYTHING beyond that. Sure the standard is the minimum. But it also is our guide. Just my thoughts., R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

I would say yes, based on the intent of that section.. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Dry System Trip times "Dwelling Unit Portions"

You are correct. You are not protecting the “Dwelling Unit” with the dry system. I believe part of the intent was to subject standard spray sprinklers to the same delivery time for Residential. I think the handbook has commentary about this in the 15 second delivery section. R/ Matt Please

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Manual Wet Standpipe & Pump

Would it be an Automatic Wet connected to the pump? I say no. To be Automatic, the water supply must be capable of supplying the full demand with no action other than opening a hose valve. If it is full of water, and relies on the FDC to supply the full demand, then it remains a Manual Wet.

[Sprinklerforum] Re: 13D freeze protection for sprinkler protection of fuel fired equipment

In Austin right? I like your second option. Pump a little conditioned air in there as you do not get lower than 25 or so. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV

[Sprinklerforum] Re: CPVC Exposed

Bullseye Brett!! We take on too much in the way of battles we should not as a Sub. Especially when poor EOR documents are presented. This is why I harp on Designers, to follow the book. It is the only leg we have to stand on. If we have not, and there are many comments, then it becomes very

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Sidewalls for 18 Inches Down

And here I was typing you a 2016 reference… R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire &

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Sidewalls for 18 Inches Down

I believe it was Viking. But I do remember there being one. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Flex Drops in excess of 100psi

Thanks for the responses. To clarify, I mean 14” of hard pipe ran as supply to a flex drop. Pressure above 100. As written, the 14” long section must have a hanger to prevent upward movement. I was just curious of any discussions that may have occurred when the 2 are used together. Hard pipe

[Sprinklerforum] Flex Drops in excess of 100psi

Having an internal discussion, and the thought came up.., Are there any discussions or considerations on the reduced arm over length when pressure is above 100psi? In other words, since the common flex fittings are rated to 175psi in a bracket, attached to a ceiling assembly, can we go to 36"

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Fire Pump Drains

I now see your question. Normally cracking a flange or groove allows that small amount of water to go to the floor drain which is present in most pump installations. R/ Matt From: Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:35 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Fire Pump Drains

Yes. The pump packing leaks into a semi-tray, which has piping connections on the bottom. R/ Matt From: Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:35 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Fire Pump Drains Matt- All the fire

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Fire Pump Drains

As each system is required to have a drain, I am not sure I understand the question..? R/ Matt From: Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:23 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Fire Pump Drains Installing a Dry system fed from a pump and while

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Skylights

Direct, per the book, is they are needed. I think they need to be ESFR because it is not like covering under an obstruction like a duct. A standard spray going off I think would give a cooling effect and not provide the volume needed for suppression. Staggering the spacing may be needed if so.

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Older dry pipe sprinkler systems

You are. 13 states no leakage on hydrostatic test. 25 report leaks as deficiencies. Sometimes even Red Tag level as seen in tagging examples. At least as much as I can recall.. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Ohio Building and Fire Codes

Sorry. I’m from the South  Ohio - ICC (iccsafe.org) Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Ohio Building and Fire Codes

https://www.iccsafe.org/advocacy/adoptions-map/idaho/ Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire &

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Sprinklers on commercial-type cooking equipment

I think that the fact NFPA 96 accepts UL 300 as the primary expectation, NFPA 13 is allowed as an alternate to that. Therefore, I believe that 8.9.3.4, is just a line-item part of 8.9 Since the commercial equipment has an UL 300 listed system, the entirety of 8.9 does not apply. R/ Matt

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Smallest footprint pump assembly

Ouch. I think then you may have arrived. Smallest I worked with was like 15hp or so with single phase power. Wish I could help more, but now I am following with deeper interest. As you know, book allows down to 25gpm @ 40psi. Hopefully, you do not have the "Reliable source of power" to contend

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Smallest footprint pump assembly

I am assuming this is 13R, so a listed pump per 20? As Richard mentioned, the Talco pumps are a good resource. At 7.5hp 50gpm @ 60psi, I found this one. https://talcofire.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/13-ULV50-Ra.pdf R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: hydraulics and cloud ceilings.

Yes, essentially entirely below, greater than 48” However, they are larger and more complex every day. So Same logic applies that if the demand (larger number of sprinklers going to discharge than above), then it becomes your calc area. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC

Craig, the language covers that. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire & Fabrication, LLC 401

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipes & FDC

I believe they are actually required unless zoned independent.. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Sidewall sprinklers for sloped roofs

Early in my career. I designed this very way. Especially in churches. Given the wording though Down along the slope, your spray pattern cannot comply. Not sure if it was in then, or if I just didn’t know at the time… So hard wording dictates the only position given a slope exceeding 2/12” Just

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Paint Booths Calculation

From a side conversation I was having.. 27.2.4.2.5 Does not discriminate. 33 says do it to EHII per 13. NFPA 33 9.2 something. THEN it supersedes stating area of booth. Nothing else changes. You just now have less area. .4/2500 = 1000 .4/1000(Insert booth size here) = 400 Chances are you

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Paint Booths Calculation

Brett, I respectfully disagree. Well I agree but. 33 tells you how much. The procedure is still per 13. This is normally the case with other standards when it comes to performing calcs or hanging etc. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Paint Booths Calculation

This allows you to do .4 times the booth and not .4 times 3000 R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Paint Booths Calculation

The answer is, yes you do. The “Phantom Flow: is a function of the Density/Area calc method. IF you could use another method, room design, then no. You would not have to ad it. Your area is EH. I am pretty sure you have no self-closing doors. SO, its area of the booth times .4 R/ Matt

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Workload Forecasting

Cool. Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire & Fabrication, LLC 401 N 5th Street Suite 448 Wausau, WI

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Workload Forecasting

I am gunning right now, but I could call you later and show you what I mean if you would like. A small demonstration. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Workload Forecasting

Both. Assuming by “Forecast” you mean looking for that elusive opening between projects. :=) R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC A

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Workload Forecasting

Microsoft Teams. I used it large scale and it was great. You probably already pay for it if you have an Office 365 account. The others 10 dollar a month you to death per user. You can set it up for pretty much any way you would like. Kan Ban, Gantt, etc. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Fire Sprinklers in Racking

Technically, most changes require evaluation. Racks must be balanced with the overhead. Is it closer to the supply? Is the common connection point providing less than .5psi balance? There are many factors at play with this. R/ Matt Please rate our customer

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Baled Pulp Fibers

I recommend staying away from equating this to Baled Cotton. The Cotton industry didn't like their reputation for Fire Protection and conducted in depth testing and research. The end result was compression of the cotton bale, around 14%-20% minimum from top of my head, to prevent the ability

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Duct obstruction criteria in LH attic

I agree with Kevin’s assessment as well. But we were not discussing droplet scatter or if suppression would even be achieved. I feel we often overlook the “Beam Rule” having 2 requirements. One of which must be met. Distance per the table, or sprinklers spaced on both sides. Great discussion.

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Duct obstruction criteria in LH attic

The one number I do not recall in this discussion is the distance horizontally. I guess based on the pretty picture in Figure A.9.5.5.1, I am having trouble seeing how a deflector at only 3” above gets water on the other side of a 24” duct. If the sprinkler is 2” from the duct, like happens in

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Duct obstruction criteria in LH attic

I believe however, the intent of the section must still be applied. Water on both sides. Not sure in the 13 edition the location, but in the 19 it is 10.2.7.1.2. We are referred back to it as applicable from the 3 times section. Sprinklers spaced on opposing sides, not to exceed the max half

[Sprinklerforum] Re: HVLS Fans

Follow-up… When first introduced, there was no stipulated max fan width. What happens at greater than 24 feet? R/ Matt Please rate our customer service Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET Engineering Designer IV FERGUSON

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Low Decks

This seems like one of those great communication with AHJ/Owner opportunities. A deck is an exterior projection. I am assuming the deck is wood, and no fire-resistant stuff. The only thing height wise is the 24" for obstructions over 4 feet, and the 48" for stages, with stipulations. IMHO,

[Sprinklerforum] Re: HVLS Fans

Good ole George! You may or may not remember a sprinkler tradition, Next month was pick on George month. We interjected his name for all examples.  Thanks again for the look. R/ Matt Please rate our customer service

[Sprinklerforum] Re: HVLS Fans

Hummm. That’s a fair point. I viewed the center SSU as a “non-issue” as @ 36”, the fan/blades are not an obstruction per the book for an SSU. The research seems to deal mainly with the shutdown interlock. I was just curious as to location and impact, or lack thereof, as no numbers are given

[Sprinklerforum] HVLS Fans

Good afternoon. Regarding centered approximately between 4 adjacent sprinklers, there is no reference as to preferred distance other than the 36" above the blades. I have a light hazard layout that essentially places the fan between 8. You could count the 4 on the corners of the box as the 4.