Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Dominique Devienne]

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Simon Slavin  wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2014, at 12:08pm, Dominique Devienne  wrote:
> > Hundreds of new words in French dictionaries for 2014
>
> Apologies.  Technical distinction due to French being defined by
> L'Académie française, as opposed to a language like English English being
> defined as 'however people in England are talking these days'. Yet another
> technical definition which we should really ignore.


If you read
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/generic/showp.exe?2;s=3292235130;p=avertissement9.txtyou'll
understand "The Academy" works so slowly that it simply can't catch
up to the times. But the two sentences below extracted from that link
clearly show the intent is to be "evolutive", albeit at a snail's pace...
And that's from a note 20+ years ago. FWIW... --DD

*L'Académie, parallèlement, n'a pas cru devoir écarter des termes et
acceptions qui, étant d'usage dans des professions de plus en plus
nombreuses, entrent rapidement dans l'usage tout court.*

*Elle l'a fait sans excès, mais sans parcimonie. Comment n'aurait-elle pas
reconnu que la médecine, l'informatique, les communications, pour ne citer
qu'elles, en transformant les habitudes de vie modifiaient du même coup le
langage ?*
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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Simon Slavin]

On 5 Feb 2014, at 12:08pm, Dominique Devienne  wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Simon Slavin  wrote:
> 
>> But over all, English is an acquisitive (unlike German) evolving (unlike
>> French) language.
> 
> Hundreds of new words in French dictionaries for 2014

Apologies.  Technical distinction due to French being defined by L'Académie 
française, as opposed to a language like English English being defined as 
'however people in England are talking these days'. Yet another technical 
definition which we should really ignore.

Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Mike King]

I've followed this thread with some interest and I think you are all
wrong... All discussion should be in English, that's UK English as spoken
by us Brits not the bastardisation of our glorious language that is
American English.

I put it to the list that Colour should be spelt with a U, same for
Catalogue and my personal favourite Programme.

Long live the Queen etc. (I'll get my coat) :)


On 5 February 2014 12:08, Dominique Devienne  wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Simon Slavin  wrote:
>
> > But over all, English is an acquisitive (unlike German) evolving (unlike
> > French) language.
> >
>
> Hundreds of new words in French dictionaries for 2014 (links to other
> recent years at the bottom):
>
> http://www.linternaute.com/actualite/societe-france/les-nouveaux-mots-du-dictionnaire-2014-chelou-0513.shtml
>
>
> Maybe you should evolve your opinion on French, and also brush up on your
> French to read the article of course. --DD
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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Dominique Devienne]

On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Simon Slavin  wrote:

> But over all, English is an acquisitive (unlike German) evolving (unlike
> French) language.
>

Hundreds of new words in French dictionaries for 2014 (links to other
recent years at the bottom):
http://www.linternaute.com/actualite/societe-france/les-nouveaux-mots-du-dictionnaire-2014-chelou-0513.shtml


Maybe you should evolve your opinion on French, and also brush up on your
French to read the article of course. --DD
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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Alaric Snell-Pym]

On 01/02/14 14:09, Simon Slavin wrote:

> 
> But over all, English is an acquisitive (unlike German) evolving (unlike 
> French) language.  So how about we give it two hundred, two hundred and fifty 
> years, and see what happens ?
> 

Nah, we should just hold all technical discussions in Lojban, of course! :-D

ABS

-- 
Alaric Snell-Pym
http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/alaric/



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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Simon Slavin]

On 1 Feb 2014, at 10:59am, RSmith  wrote:

> The plural of Index is always "Indices", never "Indexes".

I started with 'indices' when posting to this list but I found that some of the 
many foreign readers of this list apparently missed my meaning.  It's easy for 
someone struggling with English to know that 'indexes' is a plural of 'index' 
but harder with the word 'indices', especially with the pronunciation of 'c' 
being ambiguous.  So now days I often use 'indexes'.

It also means I can write things like "Look through your TABLEs, VIEWs and 
INDEXes and see whether any ...".

I consider 'indexes' a technical word, not the one I'd use for nontechnical 
writing.  Just like us Brits write 'hard disk' but use 'disc' for everything 
else, including 'compact disc'.

But over all, English is an acquisitive (unlike German) evolving (unlike 
French) language.  So how about we give it two hundred, two hundred and fifty 
years, and see what happens ?

Simon.
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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[RSmith]

Heh, was waiting for someone to point that out :)

For the record, so does Oxford English dictionary - and on reconsideration, I should have been more clear. Indexes are very much 
"allowed" these days a plural of Index when not used in a technical sense, but (and this is a big but), this is due to vernacular 
morphing, not root meaning - i.e. the other form has become acceptable because of a relaxing of a rule since so many people use it 
differently, but the Latin root word is still "Indic" found as the root for other words such as "Indicate" etc.


Other words facing the same sort of scrutiny are Vertex (pl. Vertices vs. Vertexes) or Apex (pl. Apices vs. Apexes) but of these, 
Indexes seem far more used. I'm a pedant though, and just because everyone uses it wrong does not convince me of using it wrong too 
- but one can't really argue with MW or Oxford on this - so, whatever you feel like then!


As an aside, there are other similar Latin origin words that have become acceptable when Englishified, such as "Crematoria" which 
may now be called "Crematoriums" and of course the very widely used "Forums" which used to be "Fora".


All this said, when used in Mathematical/Technical environments (such as SQL), it must still be "Indices" and not "Indexes", even if 
the Wall-street Journal allows the other form!


Some more reading for the astute or interested:
  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/index
  http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ind2.htm


On 2014/02/01 13:43, Richard Hipp wrote:




On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 5:59 AM, RSmith > wrote:

I know this is a Database forum (as opposed to a language forum) but kindly 
allow me a quick interjection here since I have
met this question many times, as posed by Scott in a forum question:

On 2014/02/01 06:01, Scott Robison wrote:

Exerpt: ...// *and* information that led to creation of ideal indexes 
(indices?). //...


The plural of Index is always "Indices", never "Indexes".


Merriam-Webster disagrees.

--
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org 


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Re: [sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[Richard Hipp]

On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 5:59 AM, RSmith  wrote:

> I know this is a Database forum (as opposed to a language forum) but
> kindly allow me a quick interjection here since I have met this question
> many times, as posed by Scott in a forum question:
>
> On 2014/02/01 06:01, Scott Robison wrote:
>
>> Exerpt: ...// *and* information that led to creation of ideal indexes
>> (indices?). //...
>>
>
> The plural of Index is always "Indices", never "Indexes".
>

Merriam-Webster disagrees.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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[sqlite] Database Grammar 101

[RSmith]

I know this is a Database forum (as opposed to a language forum) but kindly allow me a quick interjection here since I have met this 
question many times, as posed by Scott in a forum question:


On 2014/02/01 06:01, Scott Robison wrote:
Exerpt: ...// *and* information that led to creation of ideal indexes (indices?). //... 


The plural of Index is always "Indices", never "Indexes".

An Index (as a noun) means (among other things) a reference to a place, i.e. "Story 
XXX can be found on page Y".
It could also mean a placeholder, such as a card attached to, and protruding from, page Y 
announcing "Story XXX starts here".

In Database terms it mainly refers to a list/column of Key-value references from which the exact placement of the rest of the record 
in the Database data tree/store/list can be deduced, i.e. it always refers to the noun "Index" and as such the plural is always 
"Indices".


Index can however be a verb too: "Mary, please index this book for us..."

Or in present continuous form: "Mary is indexing the book."

And of course simple present transitive verb form: "I will Index this book while Mary Indexes that book..." - which is the only 
valid form of the word "Indexes".


This even true for "American English" which sometimes get the blame for words used differently to "English English" (what a 
tautological oxymoron!). So to be clear:

  "Indexes" = Present tense of the Verb: "Index".
  "Indices" = Plural of the Noun: "Index".

Hope this clears it up some!


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