David,
Yes, sure, if there's a choice between Internet access at 10Mbps and no
Internet at all forever, 10Mbps is clearly better than nothing. But that's
unlikely to be a realistic choice. A more realistic version of that is:
budgeting lets us roll out at a rate of 1,000 homes per week at
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Eugene Y Chang wrote:
I’m not completely up to speed on the gory details. Please humor me. I am
pretty good on the technical marketing magic.
What is the minimum configuration of an ISP infrastructure where we can show an
A/B (before and after) test?
It can be a
I’m not completely up to speed on the gory details. Please humor me. I am
pretty good on the technical marketing magic.
What is the minimum configuration of an ISP infrastructure where we can show an
A/B (before and after) test?
It can be a simplified scenario. The simpler, the better. We can
I agree.
> There is no conflict between the need to support 25Mbps Internet and this
> group's goal of reducing latency at load. On the other hand, you lose
> credibility and won't be taken seriously by your target audience if you
> disregard the importance of the need for every ISP rolling
On Wed, 1 May 2024, Colin_Higbie wrote:
David,
You wrote, "I in no way advocate for the elimination of 25Mb connectivity. What I am
arguing against is defining that as the minimum acceptable connectivity. i.e. pretending
that anything less than that may as well not exist (ot at the very
David,
You wrote, "I in no way advocate for the elimination of 25Mb connectivity. What
I am arguing against is defining that as the minimum acceptable connectivity.
i.e. pretending that anything less than that may as well not exist (ot at the
very least should not be defined as 'broadband')"
Gene, David,
Agreed that the technical problem is largely solved with cake & codel.
Also that demos are good. How to do one for this problem>
— Jim
> The bandwidth mantra has been used for so long that a technical discussion
> cannot unseat the mantra.
> Some technical parties use the
On Wed, 1 May 2024, Colin_Higbie wrote:
This is a largely black and white issue: there are a significant # of users
who need 4K streaming support. Period. This is a market standard, like 91
octane gas, 802.11ax Wi-Fi, skim (0%) milk, 50 SPF sunblock, and 5G phones.
The fact that not everyone
David,
Yes, poor word choice on my part to say "nearly all TVs sold today are 4K TVs."
I was thinking of 4K sets in contrast to the tiny % of 8K sets when I wrote
that to make the point that 8K is not about to become a market standard like
4K. Better to have said, "The market for 8K tv sets is
David,
The bandwidth mantra has been used for so long that a technical discussion
cannot unseat the mantra.
Some technical parties use the mantra to sell more, faster, ineffective
service. Gullible customers accept that they would be happy if they could
afford even more speed.
Shouldn’t we
Now you are talking about the real problem, how to get the ISPs to listen. It's
not bandwidth.
David Lang
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Eugene Y Chang via Starlink wrote:
Frank,
Thank you. What you suggest makes sense if it was objective!
In my neighborhood, the ISP’s organization will feel they
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Colin Higbie via Starlink wrote:
Great points. I mostly agree and especially take your point on lower latency increasing the
effective "range" of remote sites/services that become accessible based on their own
added latency due to distance. That's a great point I was not
another note on video quality, how many people are watching '4k video' on a 6-8"
mobile device?
higher resolution helps a lot for computer text and near static images, but is
far less significant for watching videos.
Now, I watch a lot of space videos on a 42" monitor and I really notice the
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Eugene Y Chang via Starlink wrote:
I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. (Surprised
mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care about.) The
discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios.
While watching stream
unless you have fairness setup on your connection (fq_codel on the sending side
of the bottleneck link, or cake/etc) even a multi-gb link can become saturated
for a short time, increasing bandwith makes it less noticable, but isn't
addressing the root problem.
David Lang
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024,
As a note on video quality, look at what's in use in theaters. most are now
moving to 4k from 2k (just over HD)
If theaters are still in the process of moving to 4k, I don't expect a lot of
content to be available at 8k+ for quite a few years.
(even IMAX laser is only 4k, 70mm IMAX is
On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 3:42 PM Rich Brown wrote:
>
> On Apr 30, 2024, at 6:10 PM, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> I think that the starlink results will create competitive pressure on the
> landline ISPs (and starlink will continue their rapid growth, being that
> they drop their next hop direct into
> On Apr 30, 2024, at 6:10 PM, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> I think that the starlink results will create competitive pressure on the
> landline ISPs (and starlink will continue their rapid growth, being that they
> drop their next hop direct into multiple cdns).
Of course, it's important to
Frank,
Thank you. What you suggest makes sense if it was objective!
In my neighborhood, the ISP’s organization will feel they have nothing to learn
from outsiders. (Worst, both major ISPs are just a subsidiary of another
organization. They just implement corporate standards. The local managers
Eugene - the easiest thing in the case of your ISP would be tell him about
us: https://libreqos.io
He can take a look on it, join our support chat and get help if he won't be
able to get it up and running:
https://chat.libreqos.io/join/fvu3cerayyaumo377xwvpev6/
But most of the ISPs don't need to
OK. I need help teaching my ISPs that they can do this without threatening
their business model.
Who can help me?
A public demo? Yes! Are you saying that if our (my) neighborhood ISP adopted
the lessons from the public demo, most of the latency issues would be solved?
What won’t get fixed? How
Just fq codel or cake everything and you get all that.
Libreqos is free software for those that do not want to update their data
plane. Perhaps we should do a public demo of what it can do for every tech
on the planet. Dsl benefits, fiber does also (but it is the stats that
matter more on fiber
Sebastian,
Great points. I mostly agree and especially take your point on lower latency
increasing the effective "range" of remote sites/services that become
accessible based on their own added latency due to distance. That's a great
point I was not considering. As an American, I tend to think
Sebastian,
Great points. I mostly agree and especially take your point on lower latency
increasing the effective "range" of remote sites/services that become
accessible based on their own added latency due to distance. That's a great
point I was not considering. As an American, I tend to think
Hi Colin,
> On 30. Apr 2024, at 20:05, Colin_Higbie via Starlink
> wrote:
>
> [SM] How that? Capacity and latency are largely independent... think a semi
> truck full of harddisks from NYC to LA has decent capacity/'bandwidth' but
> lousy latency...
>
>
> Sebastian, nothing but agreement
Colin,
I am overwhelmed with all the reasons that prevent low(er) or consistent
latency.
I think that our best ISP offerings should deliver graceful, agile, or nimble
service. Sure, handle all the high-volume data. The high-volume service just
shouldn’t preclude graceful service. Yes, the
Colin,
I agree with your comments.
Where do the 3 - 8 sec pauses in my video experience fit this discussion?
An occasional pause (once an evening) pause might be overlooked. Several times
in a program suggest a systemic problem.
Gene
--
Eugene Chang
Gene,
I think the lion's share of other people (many brilliant people here) on this
thread are focused on keeping latency down when under load. I generally just
read and don't contribute on those discussions, because that's not my area of
expertise. I only posted my point on bandwidth, not to
>>> Spotify lower quality than CD and still usable: one would check not
>>> Spotify, but other services for audiophiles; some of these use 'DSD'
>>> formats which go way beyond the so called high-def audio of 384khz sampling
>>> freqs. They dont 'stream' but download. It is these
I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. (Surprised
mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care about.) The
discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios.
While watching stream content, activating controls needed to switch content
sometimes
[SM] How that? Capacity and latency are largely independent... think a semi
truck full of harddisks from NYC to LA has decent capacity/'bandwidth' but
lousy latency...
Sebastian, nothing but agreement with you that capacity and latency are largely
independent (my old dial-up modem connections
accurate timing is useful for starlink itself, e.g.,
https://patents.justia.com/patent/11924821 and its users---hopefully
starlink can allow its dish to advertise the time besides location to
lan
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), p...@uvic.ca, Web.UVic.CA/~pan
On Tue, Apr 30, 2024
Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
h++ps://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/aws-stops-selling-snowmobile-truck-for-cloud-migrations.html
so this is more than just a concept...
Thank you for the example. It is good to know. From the URL, it seems
as if they did with that truck something that magnetic backup
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
I agree with you: two distinct parameters, bandwidth and latency. But
they evolve simultenously, relatively bound by a constant relationship.
For any particular link technology (satcom is one) the bandwidth and
latency are in a
n
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e, I do think that 10Mbit is too low
>>>> for some standard applications regardless of latency: with the more recent
>>>> availability of 4K and higher streaming, that does require a higher
>>>> minimum bandwidth to work at all. One could
no problems since sometime in 2023).
Cheers,
Colin
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typical applications, with an exception for
>>>> cloud-based gaming that benefits with lower latency all the way down
>>>> to about 5ms for young, really fast players, the rest of us won't be
>>>> able to tell the difference)
>>>>
>>
bound video calls (or used to, it seems to have gotten better in recent
months – no problems since sometime in 2023).
Cheers,
Colin
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An HTM
is well, including kids watching
YouTube while my wife and I watch 4K UHD Netflix, except the upload speed
occasionally tops at under 3Mbps for me, causing quality degradation for
outbound video calls (or used to, it seems to have gotten better in recent
months – no problems since sometim
I found a snippet of Ajit and you on stage - but not that particular
singing, though...
https://x.com/disruptivedean/status/1782923998730531027
All the best,
Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
iMessage,
Last February, TV broadcasting in Spain left behind SD definitively and
moved to HD as standard quality, also starting to regularly broadcast a
channel with 4K quality.
A 4K video (2160p) at 30 frames per second, handled with the HEVC
compression codec (H.265), and using 24 bits per pixel,
Dear Hesham,
May I ask for what reason do you need the satellites to be synchronized in
time? What application is requiring this? Earth observation? Then, go for
GNSS-based time synchronization, as done by EO satellites in LEO:
https://navi.ion.org/content/69/3/navi.531
"GNSS signals could even
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