[Sugar-devel] Gecko for Win32, pyjamas-desktop, python-hulahop
folks, hi, just wanted to mention a couple of things that i found. 1) you'll be pleased to know that i managed to hack pyjamas-desktop into submission to use python-hulahop, at europython over the last couple of days. i managed to get window event listeners going, element listeners _and_ XMLHTTPRequest async callbacks - all python-based. none of which would be possible without hulahop.WebView. so - thank you. 2) i found a page yesterday of a GSoc 2009 student who was proposing to port hulahop to webkit. i put on the talk page that of course because pywebkitgtk now has python bindings to the DOM that most of the work is now done and so his task will be made much easier. that's if GSoc 2009 is still going. or if his proposal was accepted. anyway, just mentioning it. 3) the next step is of course to have python-hulahop running on win32, alongside python-xpcom, yippee, won't that be fun. so, looking around for xulrunner for win32, i find that the olpc page says Install Gecko: TODO ha :) so anyway i found this: http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/14918.html which may contain the stuff that's needed. i.e. GRE (gecko runtime environment). i mean, after all, firefox compiles for win32 duh so it should be perfectly possible to get XUL and python-xpcom, right? h :) l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gecko for Win32, pyjamas-desktop, python-hulahop
2) That was my backup proposal in fact, and I ended up getting accepted with this one http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Webified I'd still like to make browse Browse able to use webkit (and preferably to be able to switch between webkit and gecko), but that's for after GSoC. I'll probably love that wrapper script :) 2009/7/3 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net: folks, hi, just wanted to mention a couple of things that i found. 1) you'll be pleased to know that i managed to hack pyjamas-desktop into submission to use python-hulahop, at europython over the last couple of days. i managed to get window event listeners going, element listeners _and_ XMLHTTPRequest async callbacks - all python-based. none of which would be possible without hulahop.WebView. so - thank you. 2) i found a page yesterday of a GSoc 2009 student who was proposing to port hulahop to webkit. i put on the talk page that of course because pywebkitgtk now has python bindings to the DOM that most of the work is now done and so his task will be made much easier. that's if GSoc 2009 is still going. or if his proposal was accepted. anyway, just mentioning it. 3) the next step is of course to have python-hulahop running on win32, alongside python-xpcom, yippee, won't that be fun. so, looking around for xulrunner for win32, i find that the olpc page says Install Gecko: TODO ha :) so anyway i found this: http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/14918.html which may contain the stuff that's needed. i.e. GRE (gecko runtime environment). i mean, after all, firefox compiles for win32 duh so it should be perfectly possible to get XUL and python-xpcom, right? h :) l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gecko for Win32, pyjamas-desktop, python-hulahop
On 7/3/09, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: 2) That was my backup proposal in fact, and I ended up getting accepted with this one http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Webified ooo. ah. take a look at pygtkweb (in pyjamas) and note that luis pamirez solved the import pythonmodule problem by using JSONRPC exactly as you outline. however what he did was provide a way to run pygtk apps in a web browser (unmodified) and i'm not quite sure that that's the same thing that you're proposing in Webified but i'm sure there's quite a lot of crossover. luis only had about 8 weeks so he only got up to rangewidgets.py pygtk example, which is still a heck of a long way. but - the principle, it shows that it's perfectly possible to port a python-based Widget GUI API to run in web browsers, using the pyjamas compiler. much of luis' work was to improve the pyjs compiler at the time: if what you are proposing is to port the Sugar GUI API to the web then, because luis already created browser.py and also because pyjs compiler is much more mature, you should get a heck of a long way further. plus, because Sugar GUI still relies on pygtk in a lot of places you can leverage his work. ... that's if i have translated your proposal correctly as being make Sugar apps run (unmodified) in web browsers. if you decide not to go generic web browser and instead decide to go browser engine e.g. pywebkitgtk or e.g. gecko/xul/python-xpcom/hulahop then you should definitely look at pyjamas-desktop and _still_ look at making luis pygtkweb work run in pyjamas-desktop! yes, i know - that's a port of gtk to pyjamas where pyjamas runs on top of gtk. crazy idea but it's because pyjamas API is an abstraction layer where one of the lower layers _happens_ to be gtk at the moment. so, lots of options and opportunities. I'd still like to make browse Browse able to use webkit (and preferably to be able to switch between webkit and gecko), but that's for after GSoC. I'll probably love that wrapper script :) yehh - take a look in pyjamas at pyjd/pywebkitgtk.py and also in pyjd/hula.py they are near-identical. a wrapper (submitted as a patch to pywebkitgtk, #13) wraps the [stupid] glib/gobject naming convention making it look like proper W3C DOM functions and thus near-identical to xpcom. so in that way you are independent of the underlying DOM technology. unfortunately, python-khtml is broken (c++ RTTI related bug and a bug in kde's twine python-c++ auto-generator) but if it wasn't it could be added as the third option. macos pyobjc is the fourth option to be considered. in this way, you can see that if Sugar apps are based on DOM technology (indirectly) you have maaany more options. and if you look at the list of dependencies to e.g. get python-hulahop compiled for Win32, you _really_ want to open up the options much much more, by making Sugar apps run in web browsers and on web engine technology, rather than try to hit heads against brick walls compiling xulrunner, python-xpcom 40mb downloads on windows ICK! :) l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gecko for Win32, pyjamas-desktop, python-hulahop
I'm afraid you misread my proposal. I'm making a SSB for sugar, akin to Fluid (http://fluidapp.com) and Mozilla Prism. This would allow web applications to work nicely in Sugar as separate activities (applications). Stuff like userstyles, userscripts, bookmarklets-as-buttons and javascript-dbus can greatly enhance the Sugar integration, making web apps seem even more like native activities. In fact I should stop using 'would', because creating SSBs works! Userstyles and userscripts will come soon. In general, people are trying to get web stuff to work nicely in Sugar (see http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2009/05/progress-on-sugar-activities-with-swf.html and http://karmaproject.wordpress.com/), not the other way around. Mostly because loads more people know flash/html+js than Python. Of course, efforts going the other way are more than welcome, but they have less impact in the short term. 2009/7/3 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton l...@lkcl.net: On 7/3/09, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: 2) That was my backup proposal in fact, and I ended up getting accepted with this one http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Webified ooo. ah. take a look at pygtkweb (in pyjamas) and note that luis pamirez solved the import pythonmodule problem by using JSONRPC exactly as you outline. however what he did was provide a way to run pygtk apps in a web browser (unmodified) and i'm not quite sure that that's the same thing that you're proposing in Webified but i'm sure there's quite a lot of crossover. luis only had about 8 weeks so he only got up to rangewidgets.py pygtk example, which is still a heck of a long way. but - the principle, it shows that it's perfectly possible to port a python-based Widget GUI API to run in web browsers, using the pyjamas compiler. much of luis' work was to improve the pyjs compiler at the time: if what you are proposing is to port the Sugar GUI API to the web then, because luis already created browser.py and also because pyjs compiler is much more mature, you should get a heck of a long way further. plus, because Sugar GUI still relies on pygtk in a lot of places you can leverage his work. ... that's if i have translated your proposal correctly as being make Sugar apps run (unmodified) in web browsers. if you decide not to go generic web browser and instead decide to go browser engine e.g. pywebkitgtk or e.g. gecko/xul/python-xpcom/hulahop then you should definitely look at pyjamas-desktop and _still_ look at making luis pygtkweb work run in pyjamas-desktop! yes, i know - that's a port of gtk to pyjamas where pyjamas runs on top of gtk. crazy idea but it's because pyjamas API is an abstraction layer where one of the lower layers _happens_ to be gtk at the moment. so, lots of options and opportunities. I'd still like to make browse Browse able to use webkit (and preferably to be able to switch between webkit and gecko), but that's for after GSoC. I'll probably love that wrapper script :) yehh - take a look in pyjamas at pyjd/pywebkitgtk.py and also in pyjd/hula.py they are near-identical. a wrapper (submitted as a patch to pywebkitgtk, #13) wraps the [stupid] glib/gobject naming convention making it look like proper W3C DOM functions and thus near-identical to xpcom. so in that way you are independent of the underlying DOM technology. unfortunately, python-khtml is broken (c++ RTTI related bug and a bug in kde's twine python-c++ auto-generator) but if it wasn't it could be added as the third option. macos pyobjc is the fourth option to be considered. in this way, you can see that if Sugar apps are based on DOM technology (indirectly) you have maaany more options. and if you look at the list of dependencies to e.g. get python-hulahop compiled for Win32, you _really_ want to open up the options much much more, by making Sugar apps run in web browsers and on web engine technology, rather than try to hit heads against brick walls compiling xulrunner, python-xpcom 40mb downloads on windows ICK! :) l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gecko for Win32, pyjamas-desktop, python-hulahop
On 7/3/09, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: I'm afraid you misread my proposal. I'm making a SSB for sugar, akin to Fluid (http://fluidapp.com) and Mozilla Prism. This would allow web applications to work nicely in Sugar as separate activities (applications). ok, so i have yahoo.com on a menu somewhere and click on it and it appears in a dedicated application not in a web browser but a dedicated [sugar] app. ok - that sounds easy - much easier than what i thought you said :) Stuff like userstyles, userscripts, bookmarklets-as-buttons and javascript-dbus can greatly enhance the Sugar integration, making web apps seem even more like native activities. In fact I should stop using 'would', because creating SSBs works! Userstyles and userscripts will come soon. ah, cool! good luck l. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
