[biofuels-biz] Re: Degrees Of Capture - Universities, The Oil Industry And Climate Change
Keith, Although this is interesting within the contexts of climate change, what are your views in relation to the oil companies in these times of declining oil production. It appears that the year 2002 was the peak year for oil production and unless this decline is purely political then it means we are in the throes of a long (30-50) decline in oil production. Biofuels are in an excellent position to capitalise on the decline of oil production as they can be upscaled in proportion to the decline. Incidently the decline per capita occurred in 1985. John Irvine Managing Director Aleurite Sunoils Pty. Ltd. ] ]--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/degrees_of_capture.htm Degrees of capture MARCH 2003 A joint publication with Platform and the New Economics Foundation which outlines how Britain's universities and colleges are being co-opted into directing their research and training for the benefit of the fossil fuel industry, with potentially devastating long-term effects on the environment. Degrees Of Capture Universities, The Oil Industry And Climate Change The oil industry and Britain's universities: how many degrees of capture? This report examines the relationship between the oil and gas industry and the UK higher education sector, and assesses this in the context of climate change. It asks if some parts of the higher education sector have been 'captured'a by the industry. The report looks in detail at how much influence oil and gas companies have over RD priorities, and to what extent public money is supporting both the extraction of fossil fuels and the profits of carbon-intensive corporations. Universities could play an important role in leading the debate about energy economics and developing sustainable alternatives to fossil fuels. Yet universities are engaged in research and technology development which is used by the oil and gas industry, and are the recruiting and training grounds for its future managers. After detailing the ways in which the research and teaching agendas are influenced by oil companies, the report makes a series of recommendations to put universities onto a more sustainable path. Read the report (pdf) 1194kb http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/publications/degrees_of_capture.pdf Read the press release http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/degrees.htm Paper copies available from Corporate Watch - £3 inc. p+p Publication funded by Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust and Greenpeace. http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/degrees.htm Degrees Degrees of capture Universities favour oil company profits over environment New report finds big oil companies co-opting independent research at taxpayers' expense Government is subsidising the oil and gas industry's massive profits to the tune of £40 million per year through the capture of some of Britain's most respected academic institutions, says a new report released today, Tuesday the 11th of February, by Corporate Watch, PLATFORM and the New Economics Foundation. The report, Degrees of Capture, outlines how Britain's universities and colleges are being co-opted into directing their research and training for the benefit of the fossil fuel industry, with potentially devastating long-term effects on the environment. This compromising link between academic research and corporate profit is being encouraged and furthered by government spending priorities. Despite the government's own stated goals in the face of global warming of reducing our use of fossil fuels, and replacing them with non-fossil sources, huge sums of public money are being spent on research of direct use only to the massively profitable, and highly damaging, oil and gas industries. Author of the report, Greg Muttitt of PLATFORM, said Climate change is the biggest environmental threat facing mankind at present. It is shocking that while we urgently need to be reducing our dependence on fossil fuels, government and academic institutions are taking us in exactly the opposite direction. The report shows that: * Universities contribute about 1000 research projects, worth £67 million, every year to the oil and gas industry. * 60 per cent of this is funded by public money. * Oil companies have effectively captured higher education by infiltrating every level of academic decision making: both universities and government prioritise boosting corporate profits over solving major public problems such as climate change Publicly funded research into fossil fuels technologies, and 'search and exploit' missions to find and develop oil fields, is a bad subsidy and is artificially distorting energy markets in favour of the big oil and gas companies, says Andrew Simms, policy director of the New Economics Foundation, It undermines progress towards the
[biofuels-biz] What's wrong with corporations?
http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/corporations.html Corporate Watch What's wrong with corporations? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations Corporations are people too Corporations are benefit scroungers Corporations are persistent offenders Corporations are as rich as countries But what does all this mean What can we do about it? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations: Corporations aren't allowed to be nice Company directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of their shareholders' investments - i.e. to make them as much money as possible. Genuine efforts to sacrifice profits in favour of human rights and environmental protection are off-limits. Even if a company's directors took the long view that environmental sustainablity is ultimately essential for economic sustainability, their share price would drop and they would probably be swallowed up by competitors. This is why corporate social and environmental initiatives can't really get beyond the marketing and greenwash stage. Corporations are people too They may not have human feelings, they may be bloodless and soulless, but in the eyes of the law they are 'persons' with many of the same rights as flesh-and-blood humans. Corporations can claim, for example, the right to freedom of speech, the right to sue, the right to 'enjoyment of possessions' (problematic in planning and environment law). They even have a number of advantages over ordinary people - specifically, corporations can be in two or more places at once (so cannot be jailed) and can divide themselves to dodge liability for their crimes. It is normal, for example, to transfer ownership of a dangerous cargo to a distant subsidiary while the cargo is at sea, so the parent company is not liable if it causes a toxic spill. Also, corporations are ruthless in claiming their rights - after all, they can afford the best lawyers. Corporations are benefit scroungers In 1997, British Aerospace (BAe) demanded £120m from the UK government to build a new jet. If the money were not forthcoming, BAe would fund the project itself - abroad. In 1998 the government paid up, and in March 2000 handed over a further £530m for another model. This is routine corporate behaviour. If individuals did it, it would be called blackmail. On the other end of the equation, corporations pay less and less tax. It is estimated that Rupert Murdoch's media empire in the UK paid no net corporation tax in the twelve years to 1999. This means they're living off the services paid for by everyone else - they rely on publicly funded roads to move goods and staff, on the police to protect them from crime, on the NHS to treat sick workers and the education system to train new ones. But these essential services are paid for predominantly by individuals and small businesses. Corporations are persistent offenders In the UK, commercial corporations emerged in the 17th century, as a direct result of merchant groups breaking the laws banning corporations from making a profit. From 1825 a few legal companies were set up - initially restricted to building canals and waterworks. After 1844 companies could be established to engage in any business activity stated in their constitution. Even this wasn't enough - up until 1965 corporations consistently broke the law by engaging in other activities not in their articles. In 1965 this law was repealed. On a day to day level, this 'battle to free corporations' continues; in tax and labour law, health and safety and environmental protection corporations consistently break the rules then lobby government, often successfully, to say the rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. Imagine if ordinary criminals had such opportunitiesÉ Corporations are as rich as countries In 1999, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, 51 of the world's 100 largest economies were corporations. To put this in perspective, General Motors is now bigger than Denmark and three-and-a-half times the size of New Zealand; the top 200 corporations' combined sales are bigger than the combined economies of all countries minus the biggest 10. Is it any surprise that they are able to dictate terms to many countries? National governments are often of a dubious moral character, but corporations are by their nature (see above) greedy, inhumane and parasitic, as well as lacking even a veneer of democratic control. Moreover, they share a common hatred of people interfering with their profits and 'rights'. This means they lobby to the same ends and can have massive effects - just look at the current US government. But what does all this mean Corporations would like us to believe that they are the pinnacle of economic evolution and we should get down on our knees and thank them for condescending to sell us their products. But despite their power, which can sometimes seem overwhelming,
[biofuels-biz] What are Corporations?
http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/dan_corp.html Corporate Watch - Program on Corporations Law Democracy What are Corporations?- Where did they come from? How did they become so powerful? Introduction Not-for-profit corporations Very Brief History of Corporate Development First Wave (1600 - 1720) 1720 Second Wave (1720 - 1825) Third Wave (1825 - 1998) Rights to Challenge Corporate Behaviour Conclusion Program on Corporations Law Democracy: The creation development of English commercial corporations and the abolition of democratic control over their behaviour - an article by Dan Bennett Introduction The first Commercial Corporation was created by direct unlawful action by the members of the company. From that date onwards our democratic right to control what Corporations do has been eroded and diminished until no control remained at all. Corporations and Governments have defined this erosion of control as being the liberation of Corporations from the shackles of the past. Corporations have achieved this liberation by breaking the law on mass until the Courts and the Government gave up trying to control them. The State (through the Government and the Courts) has: 1. Abandoned rules which forbade the creation and continuance of Corporations that acted in a manner that caused the public harm (introduced in 1720 - repealed 1825); 2. Abandoned state control over the types of business operation that could become Corporations (finally abandoned in 1844); 3. Restricted then abolished the right of anyone who isn't the Corporation to challenge the right of the Corporation to take various courses of action (abolished by the Companies Act 1989); and Transferred from the Government to the Courts and then to the Directors of the Corporation itself the final say over what any Corporation has the power to do. 4. A Corporation is special because by becoming a Corporation (a process called incorporation), a thing is given a distinct legal identity separate from the people who run it. This shields those who actually run the business from responsibility for their actions. Rather than people carrying out business in their own name, a Commercial Corporation is considered to be a person in its own right. The Courts, when dealing with a Corporation, accept the fiction that the Corporation has a birth, a death (although a corporation can live forever) and more importantly, entitlement to human and civil rights. A Corporation, which exists solely on paper, can assert that it has the right to do something (eg pollute) and that that right can prevail over a real person's right to object. A Commercial Corporation can create for itself a multiple personality with separate Corporations (all owned by the same parent Corporation) existing simultaneously. All risky and dangerous operations carried out by Corporations are carried out by subsidiaries. The parent Corporation, being only a shareholder in the subsidiaries (and therefore a separate legal person) cannot in any way be held responsible for the actions of the subsidiary . These subsidiaries (and/or their immediate if not ultimate parent Corporations) can be sited off-shore in a national register of companies which does not allow you to find out who is the ultimate parent Corporation (ie you cannot find out who, theoretically, should be responsible). A subsidiary Commercial Corporation can be created owning no assets. It can then decide for itself to accept the risk and responsibility of transporting crude oil and nuclear fuels (by air as well as by road and sea), running chemical plants, creating new drugs and herbicides, drilling and excavating sensitive areas. At all times this subsidiary corporate person bears the sole responsibility for its actions. If anything goes wrong, the subsidiary simply folds and disappears. The parent corporation, investors and directors know that, should anything go wrong, we are not entitled to look beyond the veil of the subsidiary Corporate person to see if the real persons who took those decisions should have been allowed to do so. Whilst Corporations (as legal persons) do not have the right to vote, they do have the right to lobby and fund political parties. They choose to pollute and exploit natural resources not only in their own land but in other lands, often without their new neighbours having any say over their presence. Corporations also have enormous influence in determining the manner in which resources are allocated and the nature of their products and markets. Whilst it is in the public's interest that resources be used sparingly and in a sustainable reusable manner, Corporations choose to create disposable products which require constant replacement/repurchase. The Corporations' interest in maximising sales and profits is in direct conflict with our own democratic right to choose how finite resources are allocated. Modern Corporations are given
[biofuels-biz] Mammoth corporations
Small-scale capitalism works out fine, but as scale increases the departure from real capitalism becomes more pronounced---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, to present low and middle income taxpayers. - tvoivozhd When democracy goes down before monopoly capitalism the result has been a greedy tyranny, preserving all the vices of capitalism and extinguishing its virtues. - Herbert Agar If I could wave my hand as the benevolent despot and make a sweeping change in the U.S. legal system, I would undo the hundred years of court decisions that have given corporations all the rights of citizens and relegated all the rest of us living, breathing human beings to second-class citizenship. - John Stauber From Roberto Verzola, secretary-general of the Philippine Greens, on another list: Economics, properly defined, is the study of human behaviour in the marketplace. IT is a BEHAVIOURAL SCIENCE. Unfortunately, people are too often greedy and the economic models can predict behaviour by reducing humans to a collection of pecuniary interests. So, the problem is not to change economics. The problem is to change people's attitude. When that happens, the economist's models will fail. You can denounce economics all you want, but it is really human behaviour that is the problem. That is what we need to address. Pat Hi Pat. I have a different interpretation: it is true that people are occasionally / often greedy in varying degrees. However economists idealized this greed and made it the centerpoint of the ideal economic agent. Then society created a legal person in the perfect image of this idealized economic agent. This legal person is the corporation/business firm, the epitome of pure greed. Corporations (which I'd count as if they were a separate species) have domesticated many humans and forced them to act and think like corporations too. This is what we need to address. Roberto Verzola Prehistoric peoples could kill mammoths; how about corporations? by Roberto Verzola Most legal systems today recognize the registered business firm as a distinct legal person, separate from its stockholders, board of directors or employees. In fact, laws would often refer to natural or legal persons. It should therefore be safe to conclude that such registered business firms or corporations are persons (ie, organisms), but NOT natural persons, and therefore not humans. Other social institutions have been created by humans (State, Church, etc.), but they have never quite reached the state of life and reproductive capacity that corporations attained. It would be very useful to analyze corporations *as if* they were a different species, and then to extract ecological insights from the analysis. (By corporations here, I am basically referring to registered business firms, or for-profit corporations). Corporations are born; they grow; they might also die. They can reproduce and multiply, using different methods, both asexual and sexual. We have bacteria within our bodies as if they were part of us; corporations have humans within them. Their genetic programming - profit maximization - is much simpler than human genetic programming, humans being a bundle of mixed and often conflicting emotions and motives. Corporations' computational capabilities for such maximization easily exceed most natural persons' capabilities. Therefore they easily survive better in the economic competition. It is profit that keeps corporations alive. They are genetically programmed to maximize the flow of profits into their gut. To extract profit from their environment, corporations transform everything into commodities and then make profits by selling them or renting them out. Corporations can transform practically anything into a commodity, including corporations and profits themselves. Today, corporations are the dominant species on the planet. They have taken over most social institutions and other niches that humans have originally created for themselves. The physical reach of the biggest corporations span the entire globe. The term globalization can mean, without exaggeration, the global rule of corporations. The non-stop transformation of the natural world - the ecological base of human survival - into commodities for profit-making has, in fact, become a threat to the survival not only of human beings but of many other species. In the same way that we learned to domesticate plants and animals, corporations have learned to domesticate humans. Much of today's educational process is a process of corporate domestication, reinforced subsequently by corporate-controlled media. Corporations have perfected the art of training humans, using carrot-and-stick methods, to keep them tame and obedient. Of course, some humans have remained wild and undomesticated. But today, they are outside
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Fixing Old Cars
As I understand, the technical octane rating of Methanol and Ethanol are comparable. But then again, my alcohol real-life experience is limited. Though my instincts tell me that if the Max compression ratio of Meth and Eth are different it's probably because the Methanol fuel mixture is so much more loaded with fuel. Causing more cooling in the intake fuel mixture. Making it more resistant to detonation. Again though, this is only my guess. BTW, I never intended to say that a Methanol and Ethanol engine would be identical. I was only trying to say that, for ethanol-engine-running info ... that articles on racing-alcohol (methanol) would be a pretty good place to start. Sorry if it mislead anyone. Curtis - Make her feel special this coming holiday season with flowers www.flowerson55.com - Original Message - From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] But you can run 15:1 compression on methanol, and you really don't want to run ethanol any higher that about 12:1, IIRC. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Wow! a high performance, lighter, Harley! Merry Christmas, Doug On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 03:52 am, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: http://www.americanprofile.com/issues/20010930/20010930ne_1354.asp See link above, ask this chap for plans, maybe. Perkins in a Harley, on biodiesel. On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 07:39 AM, Dan Maker wrote: Alan Petrillo said: If you ever do figure that out please let me know. I'd pay a dollar to see that! ;-) If I ever figure that one out, I'll take it on the road and make a fortune, or at least a buck or two. :) Well, if you don't mind going through the headaches of building a custom bike you could either buy a basket case and rebuild it, or you could get rolling stock from an off the shelf manufacturer and build your own from scratch. That's kind of what I'm thinking at this point. Time to research what conversions have been done with which engine/transmission/frame combinations. From what I've seen, Harleys have been used as host bikes for some diesel customs because of their separate engine and transmission. Buy a Harley with a dead engine, yank the dead petrol engine, and replace it with a diesel of your choice, with the appropriate modifications. Most other motorcycles today have the engine and transmission in a common case, which makes conversion highly nontrivial. Yeah. That'd make the Harley a good choice. It makes for some good thinking and dreaming, anyway. It's fun to research, not something I'd want to start building, too many other projects already in progress. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Brittle Power
First off I would wish all of Christian persuasion, a Merry Christmas, everyone a Happy New Year. I tend to agree with Keith on this, and wish that the American population was better educated in world affairs. Unfortunately America is incredibly powerful, uses this might to bend others (including my country, Australia,) to Americas will. I can forsee the time when the world will not want to follow America, and America will be in huge financial trouble. It is only a matter of time until Europe flexes its economic might, this may be the death knell for American financial superiority. It very nearly happened in Iraq, when Iraq wanted to sell oil in Euros. So Americans on the list, please understand that the world does not revolve around America, and learn to appreciate the other persons point of view. Live softly quietly, and let the world live in peace. Doug On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:39 am, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Dallas Farnworth, and welcome - your first post. Hm. The question, as I see it, is not your diatribe on the evils of government, or the lack of oversite by said government. All these nasties you speak of relate to money. George W. can't do as he wants any more than you or I can. Billy (The BJ) Clinton couldn't do it either. The question is, what have YOU done about it? Did you connect your Alternative Energy resources to the grid to supply power for friends, neighbors and esential services? Or did you just sit for the last few months pondering how to be nasty and hateful for no better reason than not being in the position to make it better. The Major question is, What the Hell are you doing to make it better? Rather than Why isn't Government making it better while not costing me any money. The world today, (Read that: the USA ) is a slave to the media. If you are so naive to believe what you see in the high dollar, slanted press, maybe you should obtain a shortwave radio and connect it to your off grid power supply. Dallas Farnworth PS: This is not for or against any government agency, it is pointed toward the people who gripe and do nothing. DF Now are you addressing this to me? It seems you are, though I didn't write the article, I just posted it. Nor am I somebody who gripes and does nothing. Nor am I even somebody who gripes. The world today, (Read that: the USA ) ... LOL! Mr Farnsworth, this is not an American list, the membership is worldwide, Americans are only a minority here, though a valued one. You'll be ridiculed with this attitude. Anybody who's against GW Bush must be pro-Bill Clinton? :-) Anyway, Keith Parkins wrote it, not me, I'm Keith Addison. He's British, I'm not quite sure what I am these days as far as nationality goes, and I couldn't care less anyway, but I live in Japan for the moment. I've been an international journalist for nearly 40 years and I know about the media and who's a slave to it and who pays it for whose benefit and at whose expense. Do you? I don't think you can do, or surely you'd have noticed that Keith Parkins's article wasn't published in the high dollar, slanted press, it was published by Corporate Watch, which is independent. And British. He also writes for Indymedia, not owned by anyone. Plenty of excellent stuff in the list archives about spin and media bias, if you care to look, by the way. Diatribe? Why do you call it a diatribe? It's a well-reasoned critique, factually based, well-researched. I wonder if you even read it, beyond a paragraph or two, enough to decide you disagreed with it. Rather than Why isn't Government making it better while not costing me any money. You think that's what it's about? If you'd read a little further maybe you'd have realised it had more to do with the big wide world than just the US, and the small and shrill, very un-American segment of the US which seldom encounters anything different from their own lockstep for-us-or-against-us views, and lashes out when it does. Did you connect your Alternative Energy resources to the grid to supply power for friends, neighbors and esential services? Or did you just sit for the last few months pondering how to be nasty and hateful for no better reason than not being in the position to make it better. Nasty and hateful... I'll hold you to that: please pinpoint precisely what it is about this article that is nasty and hateful. I don't see it in the article, I think it must be in the eye of the beholder, and the tone of your email rather confirms that. The question is, what have YOU done about it? ... The Major question is, What the Hell are you doing to make it better? You're so confident we're all do-nothing gripers that you don't even bother to spell out what YOU'VE done about it? Maybe you'll tell us. Not that size matters - if people do what they can according to their circumstances then that's good enough, and they're not to be criticized if someone else in different
RE: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Good luck finding a scrap Harley Thanks primarily to RUB's buying up all the new production, even a basket-case HD will set you back a couple grand. (For the uninitiated, a RUB pronounced rube is a Rich Urban Biker generally a doctor, attorney, accountant or other white collar professional who transports his bike to rallies on a trailer.) Anyway, Harleys are overpriced and overrated. Your best bet for a diesel conversion is to go with an older Japanese bike. They are cheap, well made, and readily available. I would even venture to say that you might able to scrounge one for free. After all, who wants to buy a Japanese motorcycle with a blown engine? The Enfields are intriguing, and there is already information out there about installing a Hatz diesel in them. Good luck. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Dan Maker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 3:56 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff... Neoteric Biofuels Inc said: http://www.americanprofile.com/issues/20010930/20010930ne_1354.asp See link above, ask this chap for plans, maybe. Perkins in a Harley, on biodiesel. It's a cool story, but I'm not sure it's the direction I want to go to build a diesel bike. This bit from the fifth paragraph put me off the first time I read it, a few days ago: He also spent $15,000 on parts for his one-of-a-kind motorcycle. But then he did buy the frame new, it could probably be done for a lot less if one were to check the local salvage yards for parts. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cr4qqt9/M=266841.4316200.5507732.1261774/D=eg roupweb/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1072216583/A=1911858/R=0/*http:/www.lifescap einc.com/picasa/landing.php?capid=222caId=1987 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=266841.4316200.5507732.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1911858/rand=852791298 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] papercrete info at earth-house.com
Ken Kern built several papercrete homes,i believe,30 years ago.EARTH-HOUSE.COM is well worth everyone time to explore! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biofuel wannabe in Oly, WA
hello to all the biofuel makers out there!! I am a student in the Olympia, WA area. I have been reading about biofuel for over a year now, and want to try a batct though I am not confident in my comprehension of written material. I am much more of a learn by seeing person. My hopes are to eventually start a student group that would focus on education, awareness and implamentation of Biofuel at my school. So I wonder if there is someone out there that would let me shadow them as they make a batch. I am always willing to trade cookies, tamales or wax your skis or snowboard in trade for your time. If willing to help me out please let me know. My email, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks so much, Angela __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
I'm sorry if I came in late on this but I did see this: http://www.farmshow.com/issues/27/05/270502.asp Kind of big but a place to start. Also, Farmshow is a very good publication to browse. Good ideas and things to ponder. fred On 22 Dec 2003, Dan Maker wrote: Neoteric Biofuels Inc said: http://www.americanprofile.com/issues/20010930/20010930ne_1354.asp See link above, ask this chap for plans, maybe. Perkins in a Harley, on biodiesel. It's a cool story, but I'm not sure it's the direction I want to go to build a diesel bike. This bit from the fifth paragraph put me off the first time I read it, a few days ago: He also spent $15,000 on parts for his one-of-a-kind motorcycle. But then he did buy the frame new, it could probably be done for a lot less if one were to check the local salvage yards for parts. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SUPER EFFICIENT ENGINE?????!!!!!!
http://www.e-traction.com/ __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Report Says Valdez Oil Spill Impacts Long-Lasting
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:55:29 +0900, you wrote: Hi MM http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=2u=/nm/2003122 0/sc_nm/environment_valdez_dc I love where the Exxon VP Frank Sprow claims that study of the situation has shown the remarkable powers of recovery of the environment. :-) Right, he won't mind a few tonnes of crude on his lawn then, and all over his garden, in his swimming pool, added to his water supply, in all his food, and his family's, and saturate his livingroom rugs with it while we're at it, and his eiderdown, and don't forget his local golf course. Hey, Frank, what's the problem, it's only a short-term effect, you'll be feeling all better by tomorrow I'm sure. I was thinking today about something I've mentioned before, which is the hypocrisy of the business tax breaks for SUVs. This is hypocritical in the sense that it is coming from folks (large Auto Companies, Republicans, Conservatives, whatever) who claim, at times, to be supporters of free enterprise and yet they are using this bald-faced tax support... e.g., a socialist measure. It is also a direct contradiction of a mantra we've heard before from some of these same parties. They've claimed that they'd sort of like to do greener cars over the years, but that we must all respect that consumers are speaking with their dollars and demanding many many SUVs. So, OK, fine, then WHY do those same vehicles need taxpayer support that goes beyond the support given to alt-fuel vehicles? Anyway, I want to make some of the same point here with respect to Mr. Sprow and Exxon and the sort-of-free-market-supporting politicians with whom they often associate. This is arguably a case of massive property damage by Exxon of others. Ok, was the price paid sufficient to compensate? I don't know. I'm just pointing out the potential for hypocrisy, depending on how they approach this. If they wish their rights to be respected (to explore, do business, discover and exploit resources within the confines of whatever deals they've negotiated), then they have to know that those very same principles protect the rights of the business who are damaged. These guys! But why would we expect any other attitude, same as Dow's over Bhopal, same as, same as, same as... Direct action does have its appeal. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Recovery for Beginners -(2nd try)
Chris, What I am unsure of, and would like some advice on is what is a good way to do methanol recovery? and what is the preferred method of transfer from container to container? A thin film evaporator coupled to a condensor is the best method of recovery. A rough verbal description can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30463 Something like this could easily be scaled up and modularized to match volumes of production. The heat source can be anything you choose. But the idea of a thin drip down an enclosed and heated tube is probably as inexpensive and simple as you're going to get. Off the shelf stuff. Better than a pot still. Preferential methods to move alcohol would be gravity and positive displacement using air pressure. Magnetic pump with a TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motor at minimum would be my next choice. Method of agitation is your choice. Prop agitation is brainless. Use a TEFC motor and make sure your motor base is solid as a rock. Pump agitation is equally as mindless. A magnetic drive pump would ensure that you'd have no seal leaks. Again, make sure the pump motor is a TEFC enclosure. Plastic containers can be heated with suspended heat exchangers of whatever preference. You'll not want to go beyond 120*F and preferably only use tanks rated at 1.9 specific gravity. Higher temps and thinner tanks will warp sooner. Insulate heavily. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Chris Jude [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Recovery for Beginners -(2nd try) Howdy y'all, I sent this a week ago, but got no reply. Anyone have any ideas? I've been lurking about on this list and have a couple questions. I am forming a biodiesel co-op at my university (Appalachian State, NC) and this spring semester I plan to build a processor. I've made several 1L batches using Alex's 2-stage method. They seemed to turn out well. I've been working with a chemistry professor and will be able to continue working with him. I've studied biodiesel for a couple years now, but it seems that a lot of the info I know n processor's is a bit out dated now (fryer to the fuel tank era). I see that we need to be using closed processors and that methanol recovery is essential. I'm interested in building a processor to make about 80-100 gal a week off of wvo from the school. Last semester I welded a stand to hold a 100 gal hdpe container that could be covered to use as a processor. I understand that I will need a container to mix methoxide in, and a container to bubble wash and settle the biodiesel. What I am unsure of, and would like some advice on is what is a good way to do methanol recovery? and what is the preferred method of transfer from container to container? I am looking for salvaged or inexpensive materials, and a not too complex system. I do however have the help of several technology professors in my dept. What should I look for in a transfer pump? Is pump mixing preferrable, or should I use a mechanical stirrer? If using a plastic container, what is a good way to heat? I thank you for your help, and look forward to being a producing member of the list! Chris Jude ASU Biodiesel Club Boone, NC 1980 MB 240D - 350K miles _ - Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Bryan Brah said: Thanks primarily to RUB's buying up all the new production, even a basket-case HD will set you back a couple grand. (For the uninitiated, a RUB pronounced rube is a Rich Urban Biker generally a doctor, attorney, accountant or other white collar professional who transports his bike to rallies on a trailer.) RUB, I like it. Anyway, Harleys are overpriced and overrated. Your best bet for a diesel conversion is to go with an older Japanese bike. They are cheap, well made, and readily available. I would even venture to say that you might able to scrounge one for free. After all, who wants to buy a Japanese motorcycle with a blown engine? Do you know of any japanese bikes that have a transmission seperate from the engine? That seems to be the big advantage of using a harley. The Enfields are intriguing, and there is already information out there about installing a Hatz diesel in them. Yup, and if I come across one with a blown engine, I'll be all over it. :) Cheers, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
thin film evaporator for ethanol? [was - Re: [biofuel] Methanol Recovery for Beginners -(2nd try)]
Appal Energy said: A thin film evaporator coupled to a condensor is the best method of recovery. A rough verbal description can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30463 Something like this could easily be scaled up and modularized to match volumes of production. Have any of you heard of a thin film evaporator being used for ethanol distilation, with a packed column? This seems like it could be a lot better method than a pot still, and better than just a packed column. Cheers, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: OT: Papercrete -- use your junk mail as a concrete substitute!
Hi Gustl Hallo, Ja, this is off topic a bit. I was a printer by trade and am on a letterpress mailing list. I'm a journalist, brought up in the hot-metal era, and my first job was production planning at a big printing firm, before I joined the press. A letterpress mailing list? Linotype machines? Lead, antimony and tin? Flongs? Really?? This came across. Very interesting. There are apparently environmentally conscious people everywhere. Apparently, and those who aren't are living in the past, IMO. www.northcoast.com is Charmaine Taylor's site, of Taylor Publishing, along with www.dirtcheapbuilder.com. Very good resources, she's most knowledgeable. Worth an extended browse. Charmaine R Taylor's Dirt Cheap Builder -- This is the place for books, resources, information on alternative building. 300+ books and videos for dirt-cheap housebuilding: Building With Lime, Cob Earthen, Cordwood Timberframe, Design Your Home, Dirt Cheap Houses Papercrete, Heat: Stoves Ovens, Off the Grid Homesteading, Practical: Roof, Floor, Plumb, Wire, Greywater, Small Projects, Solar Cooking, Stone Houses Walls, Straw Bale Light Straw Clay, and more. http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/index.html All About Lime: A Basic Information Guide for Natural Building by Charmaine R. Taylor, Taylor Publishing. Answers many questions on lime and gypsum -- when to use each, how to make a natural cement, dry up mud on the worksite, and stabilize soil for earthen bricks (for Cinva Ram block presses and others). Lime is an amazing, very versatile building material which can be used on the ground, foundation, walls; for plasters, mortars, cements, garden and land tilth, and in the waste/septic systems. Chapters on plaster and mortar give recipes and current recommendations on application and use, an interview with professional straw bale plasterers, a history of how lime was used for building, and how it can be used again for an earth friendly alterative to Portland cement. Resources, bibliography, photographs, technical articles. From Dirt Cheap Builder: http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/allaboutlime.html On papercrete: All About Papercrete by Charmaine Taylor, Taylor Publishing. Read about the latest three inventors working with papercrete, and how individuals are experimenting and building. Mixing instructions and formulas, descriptions for mixer construction and alternative options. Also covers building experiments with woodchips, sawdust, peat moss, hemp, lime, weeds, EPS and paper adobe, which can be used just like papercrete. NOT a housebuilding how-to , but gets you started on construction ideas. Photos and illustrations, tips and advice, interviews and comments. Includes floppy disk with color photos, sites and more papercrete information. From Dirt Cheap Builder: http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/allabpap2.html Building with Papercrete and Paper Adobe by Gordon Solberg, 1999, Remedial Planet, ISBN 1928627005 Build a home for next to nothing -- and do some recycling at the same time. Papercrete is made of recycled paper or cardboard, sand, and Portland cement. It's strong, light, a good insulator and very cheap, you can mould it in any shape (like papier mach), it doesn't go mouldy, swell or burn. Paper adobe is even cheaper -- it's made of earth and paper or cardboard. Papercrete isn't new -- it was patented in 1928 but was too cheap to market at a profit. Now people are building homes with it, for as little as US$1 per square foot, or even less. This book tells it all with easy-to-understand text, photos, and resource information. From the Papercrete site: http://www.zianet.com/papercrete/book.html Papercrete News: http://www.zianet.com/papercrete/index.html This is from the Houses that fit page at our Appropriate technology section: http://journeytoforever.org/at_house.html I tried using papercrete as a refractory insulation for IDD woodstoves (on-topic content, LOL!); it wasn't bad but there's a problem with it catching fire - it can develop a slow, internal burn. People using it for housebuilding recommend adding boron to the mix. Best wishes, and, yes, Happy Happy festive season Keith Happy Happy, Gustl - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This is a forwarded message To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, 21 December, 2003, 12:05:33 Subject: OT: Papercrete -- use your junk mail as a concrete substitute! ==Original message text=== I saw this interesting link on another listserv: http://www.northcoast.com/~tms/papercrete.html What is Papercrete? It's simply shredded newspaper, Portland cement and sand in somewhat variable proportions of 60/20/20. This is potentially an ideal building material because it is cheap, utilizing unwanted newspapers, magazines, cardboard and junk mail plus local sand and dirt. [] In construction use papercrete performs like adobe because it can be made into
RE: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Hi Bryan Good luck finding a scrap Harley Thanks primarily to RUB's buying up all the new production, even a basket-case HD will set you back a couple grand. (For the uninitiated, a RUB pronounced rube is a Rich Urban Biker generally a doctor, attorney, accountant or other white collar professional who transports his bike to rallies on a trailer.) Anyway, Harleys are overpriced and overrated. And you have to get off and push them round corners, don't you? :-) Your best bet for a diesel conversion is to go with an older Japanese bike. They are cheap, well made, and readily available. I would even venture to say that you might able to scrounge one for free. After all, who wants to buy a Japanese motorcycle with a blown engine? The Japanese love Harleys, they're fascinated by the lo-tech. There are lots of them here, you see them out on the roads in big packs in the summer, always beautifully kept machines. The Enfields are intriguing, and there is already information out there about installing a Hatz diesel in them. I think the Enfields also have separate gearboxes, not unit construction. They're developed from old British bikes, and the Brits only started building unit construction motors in the early sixties. Some may have been earlier, I can't recall any though. Hmm... Triumph Bonnevilles of yore, Norton Dominators, and then Commandos, BSA Gold Stars, AJS, Matchless, Ariel, Royal Enfield... Vincents, wow. One guy had a Vincent Black Prince 1000cc V2 mill in a duplex Norton Dominator frame, squeezed it in with a shoehorn, nice job, what a machine! My brother put a 500cc BSA twin in a 175cc Ducati frame (early Ducatis were small), also a shoehorn job, his usual beautiful work. Amazing torque, and it handled well. Gold Star was the only bike in town my Bonneville couldn't beat (he couldn't beat me either). Kawasaki still make their version of the Gold Star, big single, retro bike, very cool. It must be nearly 50 years old, that design. Sigh... Keith Good luck. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Dan Maker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 3:56 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff... Neoteric Biofuels Inc said: http://www.americanprofile.com/issues/20010930/20010930ne_1354.asp See link above, ask this chap for plans, maybe. Perkins in a Harley, on biodiesel. It's a cool story, but I'm not sure it's the direction I want to go to build a diesel bike. This bit from the fifth paragraph put me off the first time I read it, a few days ago: He also spent $15,000 on parts for his one-of-a-kind motorcycle. But then he did buy the frame new, it could probably be done for a lot less if one were to check the local salvage yards for parts. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Report Says Valdez Oil Spill Impacts Long-Lasting
Hi MM It's not in their nature to play fair - they don't have a nature, they're corporations. They'll do whatever thay can to benefit the bottom line. The only way to make them behave is to make it too expensive for them to misbehave. Otherwise, rules, whether of free trade or whatever, are for other (?) people, not for them - they'll bend them if it suits them. They have the capability to do that, why would they be reluctant to use it? What's to stop them? I don't think a corporation can be any more guilty of hypocrisy than a malfunctioning computer can be. Remember this? You don't understand. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. See: http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous5.html#creed Fair play has to be imposed on them from without, or forced, or they must be dismantled - terminated. What's to stop them? An alert community, a responsive media that's heard of the 4th estate, an indepedent judiciary - all stolen from us now. We have to take them back. Regards Keith On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 18:55:29 +0900, you wrote: Hi MM http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585e=2u=/nm/2003122 0/sc_nm/environment_valdez_dc I love where the Exxon VP Frank Sprow claims that study of the situation has shown the remarkable powers of recovery of the environment. :-) Right, he won't mind a few tonnes of crude on his lawn then, and all over his garden, in his swimming pool, added to his water supply, in all his food, and his family's, and saturate his livingroom rugs with it while we're at it, and his eiderdown, and don't forget his local golf course. Hey, Frank, what's the problem, it's only a short-term effect, you'll be feeling all better by tomorrow I'm sure. I was thinking today about something I've mentioned before, which is the hypocrisy of the business tax breaks for SUVs. This is hypocritical in the sense that it is coming from folks (large Auto Companies, Republicans, Conservatives, whatever) who claim, at times, to be supporters of free enterprise and yet they are using this bald-faced tax support... e.g., a socialist measure. It is also a direct contradiction of a mantra we've heard before from some of these same parties. They've claimed that they'd sort of like to do greener cars over the years, but that we must all respect that consumers are speaking with their dollars and demanding many many SUVs. So, OK, fine, then WHY do those same vehicles need taxpayer support that goes beyond the support given to alt-fuel vehicles? Anyway, I want to make some of the same point here with respect to Mr. Sprow and Exxon and the sort-of-free-market-supporting politicians with whom they often associate. This is arguably a case of massive property damage by Exxon of others. Ok, was the price paid sufficient to compensate? I don't know. I'm just pointing out the potential for hypocrisy, depending on how they approach this. If they wish their rights to be respected (to explore, do business, discover and exploit resources within the confines of whatever deals they've negotiated), then they have to know that those very same principles protect the rights of the business who are damaged. These guys! But why would we expect any other attitude, same as Dow's over Bhopal, same as, same as, same as... Direct action does have its appeal. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What's wrong with corporations?
http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/corporations.html Corporate Watch What's wrong with corporations? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations Corporations are people too Corporations are benefit scroungers Corporations are persistent offenders Corporations are as rich as countries But what does all this mean What can we do about it? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations: Corporations aren't allowed to be nice Company directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of their shareholders' investments - i.e. to make them as much money as possible. Genuine efforts to sacrifice profits in favour of human rights and environmental protection are off-limits. Even if a company's directors took the long view that environmental sustainablity is ultimately essential for economic sustainability, their share price would drop and they would probably be swallowed up by competitors. This is why corporate social and environmental initiatives can't really get beyond the marketing and greenwash stage. Corporations are people too They may not have human feelings, they may be bloodless and soulless, but in the eyes of the law they are 'persons' with many of the same rights as flesh-and-blood humans. Corporations can claim, for example, the right to freedom of speech, the right to sue, the right to 'enjoyment of possessions' (problematic in planning and environment law). They even have a number of advantages over ordinary people - specifically, corporations can be in two or more places at once (so cannot be jailed) and can divide themselves to dodge liability for their crimes. It is normal, for example, to transfer ownership of a dangerous cargo to a distant subsidiary while the cargo is at sea, so the parent company is not liable if it causes a toxic spill. Also, corporations are ruthless in claiming their rights - after all, they can afford the best lawyers. Corporations are benefit scroungers In 1997, British Aerospace (BAe) demanded £120m from the UK government to build a new jet. If the money were not forthcoming, BAe would fund the project itself - abroad. In 1998 the government paid up, and in March 2000 handed over a further £530m for another model. This is routine corporate behaviour. If individuals did it, it would be called blackmail. On the other end of the equation, corporations pay less and less tax. It is estimated that Rupert Murdoch's media empire in the UK paid no net corporation tax in the twelve years to 1999. This means they're living off the services paid for by everyone else - they rely on publicly funded roads to move goods and staff, on the police to protect them from crime, on the NHS to treat sick workers and the education system to train new ones. But these essential services are paid for predominantly by individuals and small businesses. Corporations are persistent offenders In the UK, commercial corporations emerged in the 17th century, as a direct result of merchant groups breaking the laws banning corporations from making a profit. From 1825 a few legal companies were set up - initially restricted to building canals and waterworks. After 1844 companies could be established to engage in any business activity stated in their constitution. Even this wasn't enough - up until 1965 corporations consistently broke the law by engaging in other activities not in their articles. In 1965 this law was repealed. On a day to day level, this 'battle to free corporations' continues; in tax and labour law, health and safety and environmental protection corporations consistently break the rules then lobby government, often successfully, to say the rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. Imagine if ordinary criminals had such opportunitiesÉ Corporations are as rich as countries In 1999, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, 51 of the world's 100 largest economies were corporations. To put this in perspective, General Motors is now bigger than Denmark and three-and-a-half times the size of New Zealand; the top 200 corporations' combined sales are bigger than the combined economies of all countries minus the biggest 10. Is it any surprise that they are able to dictate terms to many countries? National governments are often of a dubious moral character, but corporations are by their nature (see above) greedy, inhumane and parasitic, as well as lacking even a veneer of democratic control. Moreover, they share a common hatred of people interfering with their profits and 'rights'. This means they lobby to the same ends and can have massive effects - just look at the current US government. But what does all this mean Corporations would like us to believe that they are the pinnacle of economic evolution and we should get down on our knees and thank them for condescending to sell us their products. But despite their power, which can sometimes seem overwhelming,
[biofuel] What are Corporations?
http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/dan_corp.html Corporate Watch - Program on Corporations Law Democracy What are Corporations?- Where did they come from? How did they become so powerful? Introduction Not-for-profit corporations Very Brief History of Corporate Development First Wave (1600 - 1720) 1720 Second Wave (1720 - 1825) Third Wave (1825 - 1998) Rights to Challenge Corporate Behaviour Conclusion Program on Corporations Law Democracy: The creation development of English commercial corporations and the abolition of democratic control over their behaviour - an article by Dan Bennett Introduction The first Commercial Corporation was created by direct unlawful action by the members of the company. From that date onwards our democratic right to control what Corporations do has been eroded and diminished until no control remained at all. Corporations and Governments have defined this erosion of control as being the liberation of Corporations from the shackles of the past. Corporations have achieved this liberation by breaking the law on mass until the Courts and the Government gave up trying to control them. The State (through the Government and the Courts) has: 1. Abandoned rules which forbade the creation and continuance of Corporations that acted in a manner that caused the public harm (introduced in 1720 - repealed 1825); 2. Abandoned state control over the types of business operation that could become Corporations (finally abandoned in 1844); 3. Restricted then abolished the right of anyone who isn't the Corporation to challenge the right of the Corporation to take various courses of action (abolished by the Companies Act 1989); and Transferred from the Government to the Courts and then to the Directors of the Corporation itself the final say over what any Corporation has the power to do. 4. A Corporation is special because by becoming a Corporation (a process called incorporation), a thing is given a distinct legal identity separate from the people who run it. This shields those who actually run the business from responsibility for their actions. Rather than people carrying out business in their own name, a Commercial Corporation is considered to be a person in its own right. The Courts, when dealing with a Corporation, accept the fiction that the Corporation has a birth, a death (although a corporation can live forever) and more importantly, entitlement to human and civil rights. A Corporation, which exists solely on paper, can assert that it has the right to do something (eg pollute) and that that right can prevail over a real person's right to object. A Commercial Corporation can create for itself a multiple personality with separate Corporations (all owned by the same parent Corporation) existing simultaneously. All risky and dangerous operations carried out by Corporations are carried out by subsidiaries. The parent Corporation, being only a shareholder in the subsidiaries (and therefore a separate legal person) cannot in any way be held responsible for the actions of the subsidiary . These subsidiaries (and/or their immediate if not ultimate parent Corporations) can be sited off-shore in a national register of companies which does not allow you to find out who is the ultimate parent Corporation (ie you cannot find out who, theoretically, should be responsible). A subsidiary Commercial Corporation can be created owning no assets. It can then decide for itself to accept the risk and responsibility of transporting crude oil and nuclear fuels (by air as well as by road and sea), running chemical plants, creating new drugs and herbicides, drilling and excavating sensitive areas. At all times this subsidiary corporate person bears the sole responsibility for its actions. If anything goes wrong, the subsidiary simply folds and disappears. The parent corporation, investors and directors know that, should anything go wrong, we are not entitled to look beyond the veil of the subsidiary Corporate person to see if the real persons who took those decisions should have been allowed to do so. Whilst Corporations (as legal persons) do not have the right to vote, they do have the right to lobby and fund political parties. They choose to pollute and exploit natural resources not only in their own land but in other lands, often without their new neighbours having any say over their presence. Corporations also have enormous influence in determining the manner in which resources are allocated and the nature of their products and markets. Whilst it is in the public's interest that resources be used sparingly and in a sustainable reusable manner, Corporations choose to create disposable products which require constant replacement/repurchase. The Corporations' interest in maximising sales and profits is in direct conflict with our own democratic right to choose how finite resources are allocated. Modern Corporations are given
[biofuel] Merry Christmas for all of you
I wish a Merry Christmas to all of you, and pray God for peace, love, friendship, joy, health, a good job, well being among all the countries in the world. Best wishes Marcelino Miranda QUIMICA NOVA S.A. Argentina - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 6:27 PM Subject: [biofuel] Simple 5-gallon processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html 5-gallon processor - Cheap, simple, safe and effective Use it once a week and this 5-gallon (20-litre) processor will make you 200 gallons of quality biodiesel a year. We made hundreds of gallons with it before scaling up to bigger batches, and we still use it for small batches and demonstrations. Like our test-batch processor, it's easy to make from not very much, mostly scrap and junk. It's effective and safe, closed and air-tight, with no splashing or leaking of hot fumes. It's suitable for single-stage or two-stage processes. And you can take it anywhere. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Why not try a HD trans in a jap frame? You're gonna have to modify things to fit a diesel in there anyway. Dan Maker wrote: Anyway, Harleys are overpriced and overrated. Your best bet for a diesel conversion is to go with an older Japanese bike. They are cheap, well made, and readily available. I would even venture to say that you might able to scrounge one for free. After all, who wants to buy a Japanese motorcycle with a blown engine? Do you know of any japanese bikes that have a transmission seperate from the engine? That seems to be the big advantage of using a harley. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Gracias Por Suscribirme
Luis, gracias por suscribirme a su lista. Perdone mi espanol, que no es perfecto. Me encantaria las otras sorpresas que tienes para alguien que puede leer espanol. Naci en Manhattan, Nueva York, 1961. Aprendi hablar espanol de mis padres que eran inmigrantes. Vivi en Espana por 6.5 anos y mi esposa es Espanola. Volvi a California en 1996 despues de diez anos en Europa. Felices fiestas, Edward Mendoza [EMAIL PROTECTED] 707.537.7392 211 Hayman Court Santa Rosa, CA 95409 -ORIGINAL MESSAGE--- Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:35:44 -0500 From: Contactos Mundiales [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Ethanol-Veggie Blend? Dear Edward: It is done already, your name has been added to the our mailing list. I think that quite possibly you will not have to wait too long... we may already have the solution, it may just be a matter of getting a diesel engine set up for testing, some laboratory facilities, instrumentation for data collection and we might be up and running quite soon. Simultaneously with the e-diesel research we expect to operate a 1000 (one thousand) liter ethanol/day distillery. Some of the ethanol will be for fuel and some for beverages. If you can read spanish then, I have a few other surprises for you... Espera otras noticias interesantes de nuestra Fundacin. Tengo curiosidad, eres nativo de California o de otro pas? Bueno, Edward, recibe un cordial saludo y que tengas unas felices fiestas y un ao nuevo colmado de eventos importantes y de prosperidad, Luis R. Calzadilla VP Operations Fundacin Sugar Cane Research Org. Cali, Colombia Tel (572) 557-0627 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] Fwd: OT: Papercrete -- use your junk mail as a concrete substitute!
Hallo Keith, I am sending all replies to the Letpress list. And now, it is a small world isn't it? I have, out rusting in my barn unfortunately, a complete letterpress job shop. C-4 Intertype, Model M Ludlow, both electric pot, loads of handset type, Heidelberg 10x15 Windmill, Miehle V36 vertical, 12x18 CP, 2 8x10's of unknown manufacture, Van der Cook adjustable bed proof press, rubber stamp vulcanizer, a couple of paper joggers, Bunn string tier and all the other equipment, small stuff, furniture, quoins and keys, numbering machines, paper stock, etc., etc. etc. which made up my shop. When I became disabled I had to move it out to my barn and that, as it is said, was the end of that. Makes one ill, but there is nothing much which can be done about it. Can't give the stuff away and can't afford to house it properly so it doesn't rust. If I could I would go out and putter around. Love printing. Making things right, look good when others don't believe it can be done. Another thing we have in common is Japan. One of my dearest friends lived in Tokyo for 15 odd years. Taught English but lived there to study Aikido. She is the highest rated woman black belt in the world. The Japanese men really gave her hell. Didn't like training with a woman. Just made her strong in her technique. She is pushing 60 now and lives in LA. I loved Japan when I was there. Mid and late 60's. RR from the Nam. Neat, tidy, friendly, effecient. And Sapparo dark beer is right up there with German (Bavarian in particular) brews. Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 23 December, 2003, 04:22:46, you wrote: KA Hi Gustl Hallo, Ja, this is off topic a bit. I was a printer by trade and am on a letterpress mailing list. KA I'm a journalist, brought up in the hot-metal era, and my first job KA was production planning at a big printing firm, before I joined the KA press. A letterpress mailing list? Linotype machines? Lead, antimony KA and tin? Flongs? Really?? ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with corporations?
Keith Addison said: http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/corporations.html Corporate Watch What's wrong with corporations? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations Corporations are people too Corporations are benefit scroungers Corporations are persistent offenders Corporations are as rich as countries But what does all this mean What can we do about it? SNIP The points brought up in this echo many thoughts I've had about corporations. I'd have liked to see more practical application tips in the What can we do about it? section. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Detrick Merz said: Why not try a HD trans in a jap frame? You're gonna have to modify things to fit a diesel in there anyway. An HD trans? I was thinking, last night, of using a seperate transmission but I haven't done any research into what options are avaliable. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Still OT, Letter Press Printing [was - OT: Papercrete]
Gustl Steiner-Zehender said: Van der Cook adjustable bed proof press Hehe, my wife and I printed our wedding announcements on a Van der Cook, hand set the type, had a lot of fun doing it. She does hand book binding and repair work, majored in Design at university, with an emphases on book binding and repair which included some letter press printing. Cheers, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
I read in one of the former mails that there is no Royal Enfield Diesel version available. In Germany there seems to be a dealer who is still building/selling them. Here his url: http://home.t-online.de/home/Beckedorf/dealer.htm Andreas Ohnsorge CSC Abraham-Lincoln-Park 1 65189 Wiesbaden Germany Phone: +49.611.142.20020 Fax: +49.611.142.980028 Mobile:+49 172 - 8 43 30 32 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Experience Results. Experience CSC. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Detrick Merz detmerz To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com @uu.net cc: Subject: Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff... 23.12.2003 14:38 Please respond to biofuel Why not try a HD trans in a jap frame? You're gonna have to modify things to fit a diesel in there anyway. Dan Maker wrote: Anyway, Harleys are overpriced and overrated. Your best bet for a diesel conversion is to go with an older Japanese bike. They are cheap, well made, and readily available. I would even venture to say that you might able to scrounge one for free. After all, who wants to buy a Japanese motorcycle with a blown engine? Do you know of any japanese bikes that have a transmission seperate from the engine? That seems to be the big advantage of using a harley. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Dan Maker said: Detrick Merz said: Why not try a HD trans in a jap frame? You're gonna have to modify things to fit a diesel in there anyway. An HD trans? Doh! HD == Harley Davidson. I can't believe I missed that the first time. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Detrick Merz said: Why not try a HD trans in a jap frame? You're gonna have to modify things to fit a diesel in there anyway. An HD trans? I was thinking, last night, of using a seperate transmission but I haven't done any research into what options are avaliable. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker Hay, easy on the Harleys =) I know the british military is using Diesel Kawasaki enduro type bikes in a pilot program. The engine/trans assembly appear stock. I found this in a basic web search a few years ago. An advantage of an FLH Harley frame is that it will accept a complete Turbo VW drive package. I saw it for my self in Ft. Collins Co. This thing was very well behaved (FAST) and not a huge engineering stretch. http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: OT: Papercrete -- use your junk mail as a concrete substitute!
Hi Gustl We really are off-topic (I think) but what the hell, it's Christmas. :-) Hallo Keith, I am sending all replies to the Letpress list. And now, it is a small world isn't it? Very, small and huge - immensely small? I have, out rusting in my barn unfortunately, a complete letterpress job shop. C-4 Intertype, Model M Ludlow, both electric pot, loads of handset type, Heidelberg 10x15 Windmill, Miehle V36 vertical, 12x18 CP, 2 8x10's of unknown manufacture, Van der Cook adjustable bed proof press, rubber stamp vulcanizer, a couple of paper joggers, Bunn string tier and all the other equipment, small stuff, furniture, quoins and keys, numbering machines, paper stock, etc., etc. etc. which made up my shop. When I became disabled I had to move it out to my barn and that, as it is said, was the end of that. Makes one ill, but there is nothing much which can be done about it. Can't give the stuff away and can't afford to house it properly so it doesn't rust. If I could I would go out and putter around. Love printing. Making things right, look good when others don't believe it can be done. Heidelberg. Ludlow, Miehle, Intertype. Rusting. Man, you're making me cry. How very frustrating Gustl. Letterpress got dumped by South African newspapers just before I left, in 1976. Kind of pathetic to see the compositors snipping up bits of paper and sticking it down on bits of plastic like a bunch of little schoolkids. That newspaper had no trouble selling their Linotype machines, to American print museums - seems the US had dumped hot metal years earlier, they were collectors' pieces. I loved them. And now I've got more fonts on my computer than any printer ever had, and I can do things with them no printer could do, and I'm not even into fonts really, though I've done a lot of DTP. But I dunno, it's bloodless. Like computer editing at a newspaper. No spike, for instance. It's part of a young reporter's essential education to see the paper takes his/her inept work is typed on (typed!) pinned firmly and decisively onto the spike. Fires your resolve to progress from the unspeakable to the unspikeable. One computer system I worked on had an electronic spike, FCOL - just not the same. Anyway, many years later I discovered a hot-metal print shop still working away in a basement right in the heart of London, and making a living. In one of those interesting alleys between Charing Cross Road and St Martins Lane, near Trafalgar Square. An old man and his son, with a Heidelberg and a Linotype, plus a collection of old woodcut types, about a hundred years old, still in use. It was still going not long before I left London, in 1992. They said hot-metal still had an advantage for short runs - they were doing restaurant menus and so on (Soho's nearby), stuff where details get changed often. They kept the galleys set up for regular clients, all they had to do was reset a slug or two. What a joy to see. Another thing we have in common is Japan. One of my dearest friends lived in Tokyo for 15 odd years. Taught English but lived there to study Aikido. She is the highest rated woman black belt in the world. The Japanese men really gave her hell. Didn't like training with a woman. Just made her strong in her technique. She is pushing 60 now and lives in LA. I loved Japan when I was there. Mid and late 60's. RR from the Nam. Neat, tidy, friendly, effecient. Yes! Still. Aikido's wonderful, I wish I'd managed to continue with it (one year). I envy your friend. And Sapparo dark beer is right up there with German (Bavarian in particular) brews. Good beer here. Good coffee too, and good coffee shops, not very common in the East. First time I bought a coffee in Hong Kong I couldn't drink it, the guy'd used three spoons of instant and chucked in a couple of teabags for good measure. Plus a load of sweetened condensed milk. Yuk. The stuff of nightmares. No Japanese would do such a thing to a person. Best Keith Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 23 December, 2003, 04:22:46, you wrote: KA Hi Gustl Hallo, Ja, this is off topic a bit. I was a printer by trade and am on a letterpress mailing list. KA I'm a journalist, brought up in the hot-metal era, and my first job KA was production planning at a big printing firm, before I joined the KA press. A letterpress mailing list? Linotype machines? Lead, antimony KA and tin? Flongs? Really?? ...snip... -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
[biofuel] Re: Brittle Power
... and China and India Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is only a matter of time until Europe flexes its economic might, ... Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuel wannabe in Oly, WA
hello to all the biofuel makers out there!! I am a student in the Olympia, WA area. I have been reading about biofuel for over a year now, and want to try a batct though I am not confident in my comprehension of written material. I am much more of a learn by seeing person. My hopes are to eventually start a student group that would focus on education, awareness and implamentation of Biofuel at my school. So I wonder if there is someone out there that would let me shadow them as they make a batch. I am always willing to trade cookies, tamales or wax your skis or snowboard in trade for your time. If willing to help me out please let me know. My email, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks so much, Angela Hi Angela I'm a few thousand miles away and I've never been there but I think there's a lot of biodieseling going on around Olympia. Try here: http://www.olympiagreenfuels.com/ Olympia Green Fuels Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Simple 5-gallon processor
Hi Dan Keith Addison said: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html 5-gallon processor - Cheap, simple, safe and effective Nice! I think a 5 gal. / 20 l. test batch is probably easier to make than a 1 l. or 1.5 l. test batch, the smaller the test batch, the more precise your measurements must be. For example: 1 liter oil requires 0.2 liters of Methanol and .35 grams NaOH 20 liters of oil requires 4 liters of Methanol and 7 grams NaOH If you accidently measure out an extra .1 gram NaOH in each batch it represents it represents 28.5% too much in the 1 liter batch but only 1.4% too much in the 20 liter batch. That's wrong Dan. This is virgin oil, so it should be: 1 liter oil requires 0.2 liters of Methanol and 3.5 grams NaOH 20 liters of oil requires 4 liters of Methanol and 70 grams NaOH A .1 gram NaOH error is only 2.8% out in the 1 litre batch, and that won't make much of a difference with virgin oil. With very high-titration WVO it might though. Not significant with the 20 litre batch. Anyway, never mind, the principle's right even if you lost a decimal place. Hey, my turn! (Thanks again for your help!) By the way, 20 liters of oil and 4 liters of Methanol is 24 litres. A 20-litre processor would make 15-litre batches: 15 litres of oil, 3 litres of methanol and 2 litres of headroom. This may seem obvious, and I suppose it realy is, but it seems worth stating. I hadn't realy thought about it untill I mad a couple of 1.4 liter test batches a few weeks back. One turned out great, the other is quite interesting to watch settle, but it isn't biodiesel. It's worth stating. Mark's right though, eh? - it doesn't lend itself to armchair theorising. Why we always advise people to start at the beginning instead of rushing straight at the two-stage processes or designing a full-scale processor before they've made their first batch. One erstwhile hopeful complained most bitterly to me because he'd spent a load of money on lots of chemicals and processor gear and so on and his first attempt ended up with 50 gallons of glop from a failed acid-base process that he just didn't know enough to control properly. He knew better, wanted to take a short-cut and avoid titration. No problem that the process avoids titration, but the homebrewer who avoids it isn't likely to have enough skill or knowledge to do two-stage processes properly. You need to get a feel for it all, get experienced, work out your own methods for ensuring accuracy and predictable results - get good at it. As with most things. So yes indeed, small batches need more precision. Conversely (or something), for example, a small error in titration becomes quite a big error when there's 50 gallons of it. So it's worthwhile learning how to handle small batches and small quantities accurately. Anyway, small test batches are useful. You should be able to measure 0.1 gram and 0.1 millilitre reliably. Another newbie argued with me because JtF doesn't give equivalents for measuring the lye with a teaspoon. But you can't do accurate measurements with a spoon - after all, lye comes in flakes, pearls and half-pearls, how can you hope to get it right with a spoon? So, no spoon. Anyway you'll get the cost of a 0.1 gram-accurate scale back on your first batch or two, why be so stingy? But he insisted on spoons. He's welcome. Welcome to the glop soap too, I guess. Or maybe not, but why not do it well? Surely it's worth it? It's not too difficult. Dan, what quite is happening to the test batch you made that isn't biodiesel? Why not try rescuing it? Best Keith Cheers Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mammoth corporations
Small-scale capitalism works out fine, but as scale increases the departure from real capitalism becomes more pronounced---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, to present low and middle income taxpayers. - tvoivozhd When democracy goes down before monopoly capitalism the result has been a greedy tyranny, preserving all the vices of capitalism and extinguishing its virtues. - Herbert Agar If I could wave my hand as the benevolent despot and make a sweeping change in the U.S. legal system, I would undo the hundred years of court decisions that have given corporations all the rights of citizens and relegated all the rest of us living, breathing human beings to second-class citizenship. - John Stauber From Roberto Verzola, secretary-general of the Philippine Greens, on another list: Economics, properly defined, is the study of human behaviour in the marketplace. IT is a BEHAVIOURAL SCIENCE. Unfortunately, people are too often greedy and the economic models can predict behaviour by reducing humans to a collection of pecuniary interests. So, the problem is not to change economics. The problem is to change people's attitude. When that happens, the economist's models will fail. You can denounce economics all you want, but it is really human behaviour that is the problem. That is what we need to address. Pat Hi Pat. I have a different interpretation: it is true that people are occasionally / often greedy in varying degrees. However economists idealized this greed and made it the centerpoint of the ideal economic agent. Then society created a legal person in the perfect image of this idealized economic agent. This legal person is the corporation/business firm, the epitome of pure greed. Corporations (which I'd count as if they were a separate species) have domesticated many humans and forced them to act and think like corporations too. This is what we need to address. Roberto Verzola Prehistoric peoples could kill mammoths; how about corporations? by Roberto Verzola Most legal systems today recognize the registered business firm as a distinct legal person, separate from its stockholders, board of directors or employees. In fact, laws would often refer to natural or legal persons. It should therefore be safe to conclude that such registered business firms or corporations are persons (ie, organisms), but NOT natural persons, and therefore not humans. Other social institutions have been created by humans (State, Church, etc.), but they have never quite reached the state of life and reproductive capacity that corporations attained. It would be very useful to analyze corporations *as if* they were a different species, and then to extract ecological insights from the analysis. (By corporations here, I am basically referring to registered business firms, or for-profit corporations). Corporations are born; they grow; they might also die. They can reproduce and multiply, using different methods, both asexual and sexual. We have bacteria within our bodies as if they were part of us; corporations have humans within them. Their genetic programming - profit maximization - is much simpler than human genetic programming, humans being a bundle of mixed and often conflicting emotions and motives. Corporations' computational capabilities for such maximization easily exceed most natural persons' capabilities. Therefore they easily survive better in the economic competition. It is profit that keeps corporations alive. They are genetically programmed to maximize the flow of profits into their gut. To extract profit from their environment, corporations transform everything into commodities and then make profits by selling them or renting them out. Corporations can transform practically anything into a commodity, including corporations and profits themselves. Today, corporations are the dominant species on the planet. They have taken over most social institutions and other niches that humans have originally created for themselves. The physical reach of the biggest corporations span the entire globe. The term globalization can mean, without exaggeration, the global rule of corporations. The non-stop transformation of the natural world - the ecological base of human survival - into commodities for profit-making has, in fact, become a threat to the survival not only of human beings but of many other species. In the same way that we learned to domesticate plants and animals, corporations have learned to domesticate humans. Much of today's educational process is a process of corporate domestication, reinforced subsequently by corporate-controlled media. Corporations have perfected the art of training humans, using carrot-and-stick methods, to keep them tame and obedient. Of course, some humans have remained wild and undomesticated. But today, they are outside
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with corporations?
Hi Dan Keith Addison said: http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/pages/corporations.html Corporate Watch What's wrong with corporations? Some things you'd probably prefer weren't true about corporations Corporations are people too Corporations are benefit scroungers Corporations are persistent offenders Corporations are as rich as countries But what does all this mean What can we do about it? SNIP The points brought up in this echo many thoughts I've had about corporations. I'd have liked to see more practical application tips in the What can we do about it? section. Corporate Watch does good work countering them I think, as do a whole bunch of other groups. CorpWatch, PR Watch (Stauber and Rampton), Multinational Monitor (Mokhiber and Weissman), the independent Internet news sites of various ilk, the anti-WB, IMF, WTO etc groups - anti-corporate globalization, anti-corporateering. And people like FAIR, groups fighting concentration of media ownership, the ETC Group (nee RAFI), plus many more local, grassroots groups and campaigns all over the world, Shiva, Bello et al, peasants' groups in Mexico, India, the Philippines and many other places. What's been making a really big difference is the Internet. Could be the saving of us all. A handful of resource-challenged folks with a PC or two can take on a mega-corp, and win. RAFI's Terminator technology campaign against Monsanto was a good example. Did you see my reply to MM on the Valdez oil spill? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30599/ It refs a link in our FYI section. There's quite a lot of corp stuff in that section. http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous.html Fritz Schumacher (Small is Beautiful - Economics as if People Mattered), the Institute for Local Self-Reliance http://www.ilsr.org, many others have a lot to say about all this that's worth listening to. There's also this... um, something in the archives, but I'll post it again in a separate message. See Mammoth corporations. If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito. -- the Dalai Lama Best Keith Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Military diesel motorcycles and other cool stuff...
Several years ago, I set out to build a diesel engine to a specification of 50 hp. from a 50 lb. mechanism. (7 lb/hp is more typical) It was about the size of a roll of paper twoels and perfectly balanced, weighed 53 lb. minus the fuel pump. While it was designed for unmanned aircraft, it would have been very suitable for a motorcycle or small car. We spent about $50,000 building a feasibility demonstrator, but, during testing, some metal chips in the oil damaged it beyond economical repair and we never developed full power. However, given funds, I'm confident the design could meet the specification. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Brittle Power
... and China and India Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is only a matter of time until Europe flexes its economic might, ... Doug How come nobody mentions Japan? We're really talking about flexing economic might politically, and while Japan shares economic leadership with the US and the EU, geopolitically it's nowhere at all. It doesn't appear to have anything you could call a foreign policy. These are quite interesting papers: Japan and the End of Cheap Oil http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/nije.htm http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/rwilcox.htm United States Militarism, Global Instability and Environmental Destruction See: 3. Environmental impacts: The case of Japan http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~aslan/rwilcox.htm#3 Also: http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_44/b3705125.htm Japan Explained Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: thin film evaporator for ethanol? [was - Re: [biofuel] Methanol Recovery for Beginners -(2nd try)]
Me thinks that's a question befitting the Revenuer. - Original Message - From: Dan Maker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 3:25 AM Subject: thin film evaporator for ethanol? [was - Re: [biofuel] Methanol Recovery for Beginners -(2nd try)] Appal Energy said: A thin film evaporator coupled to a condensor is the best method of recovery. A rough verbal description can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30463 Something like this could easily be scaled up and modularized to match volumes of production. Have any of you heard of a thin film evaporator being used for ethanol distilation, with a packed column? This seems like it could be a lot better method than a pot still, and better than just a packed column. Cheers, Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
