Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-26 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
 El jue, 25-09-2014 a las 16:44 +0200, Tom Gundersen escribió:
 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
 lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
  So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
  remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
  historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
  happening...
 
  (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
  the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
  needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
  from systemd).

 No one objected to this, so I pushed the patch deleting it. If anyone
 wants to resurrect this in an external repo, it should be simple
 enough to extract it from git.

 Cheers,

 Tom
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 Is there any other readahead implementation around that we could migrate
 to? Well, not sure many laptops with SSD are sold in your area but, at
 least in mine, most people still have (and buy) setups with rotational
 hard drives that have a clear gain when running readahead (well, I can
 see it every time I reboot and login on gnome-shell if I don't use
 readahead)

I think the best bet would be someone who understands/knows/uses this
stuff to resurrect systemd-readahead in a third-party repo and
maintain it there. AFAIK, it was the best of the available options.

Cheers,

Tom
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-26 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Daurnimator q...@daurnimator.com wrote:
 On 25 September 2014 10:44, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote:

 I pushed the patch deleting it.


 Please ensure
 http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-readahead.html is updated
 ASAP with a deprecation note.

This page will go away next time the man-pages are regenerated. Please
note that the sd-readahead API was not provided by libsystemd.so (it
was just a drop-in file), so there should be no issue with
compatibility here.

Cheers,

Tom
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-26 Thread Samuli Suominen

On 26/09/14 09:58, Tom Gundersen wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
 El jue, 25-09-2014 a las 16:44 +0200, Tom Gundersen escribió:
 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
 lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
 So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
 remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
 historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
 happening...

 (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
 the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
 needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
 from systemd).
 No one objected to this, so I pushed the patch deleting it. If anyone
 wants to resurrect this in an external repo, it should be simple
 enough to extract it from git.

 Cheers,

 Tom
 ___
 systemd-devel mailing list
 systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
 http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
 Is there any other readahead implementation around that we could migrate
 to? Well, not sure many laptops with SSD are sold in your area but, at
 least in mine, most people still have (and buy) setups with rotational
 hard drives that have a clear gain when running readahead (well, I can
 see it every time I reboot and login on gnome-shell if I don't use
 readahead)
 I think the best bet would be someone who understands/knows/uses this
 stuff to resurrect systemd-readahead in a third-party repo and
 maintain it there. AFAIK, it was the best of the available options.

 Cheers,

 Tom

This sounds like the best option to me too, anyone can pick up the
systemd-readahead
code and create a e.g. github repository for it

+1

- Samuli
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-26 Thread Pacho Ramos
El vie, 26-09-2014 a las 08:58 +0200, Tom Gundersen escribió:
 On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote:
  El jue, 25-09-2014 a las 16:44 +0200, Tom Gundersen escribió:
  On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
  lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
   So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
   remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
   historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
   happening...
  
   (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
   the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
   needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
   from systemd).
 
  No one objected to this, so I pushed the patch deleting it. If anyone
  wants to resurrect this in an external repo, it should be simple
  enough to extract it from git.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Tom
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  systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
  http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel
 
  Is there any other readahead implementation around that we could migrate
  to? Well, not sure many laptops with SSD are sold in your area but, at
  least in mine, most people still have (and buy) setups with rotational
  hard drives that have a clear gain when running readahead (well, I can
  see it every time I reboot and login on gnome-shell if I don't use
  readahead)
 
 I think the best bet would be someone who understands/knows/uses this
 stuff to resurrect systemd-readahead in a third-party repo and
 maintain it there. AFAIK, it was the best of the available options.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Tom

Yeah, the problem was that I ended up using it as it looked to be the
best option for doing this (even being stalled), the problem is that,
even if I use it actively, I don't understand/know it :S

Lets see if anyone finally is able to, at least, repackage it outside
systemd (even simply keeping it, for now, as good (= better than other
alternatives) as it's currently) 

Best regards

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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-25 Thread Tom Gundersen
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
 So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
 remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
 historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
 happening...

 (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
 the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
 needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
 from systemd).

No one objected to this, so I pushed the patch deleting it. If anyone
wants to resurrect this in an external repo, it should be simple
enough to extract it from git.

Cheers,

Tom
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-25 Thread Daurnimator
On 25 September 2014 10:44, Tom Gundersen t...@jklm.no wrote:

 I pushed the patch deleting it.


Please ensure
http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-readahead.html is
updated ASAP with a deprecation note.
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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-09-25 Thread Pacho Ramos
El jue, 25-09-2014 a las 16:44 +0200, Tom Gundersen escribió:
 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Lennart Poettering
 lenn...@poettering.net wrote:
  So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
  remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
  historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
  happening...
 
  (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
  the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
  needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
  from systemd).
 
 No one objected to this, so I pushed the patch deleting it. If anyone
 wants to resurrect this in an external repo, it should be simple
 enough to extract it from git.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Tom
 ___
 systemd-devel mailing list
 systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org
 http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel

Is there any other readahead implementation around that we could migrate
to? Well, not sure many laptops with SSD are sold in your area but, at
least in mine, most people still have (and buy) setups with rotational
hard drives that have a clear gain when running readahead (well, I can
see it every time I reboot and login on gnome-shell if I don't use
readahead)


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Re: [systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-08-15 Thread Kok, Auke-jan H
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Lennart Poettering lenn...@poettering.net
 wrote:

 Heya,

 Since its early days systemd contained the systemd-readahead tool, whose
 job was to improve boot times by reading files in their order on disk,
 before they would actually be needed by applications. In times of SSD
 the benefit of systemd-readahead is much less convincing, in many case
 it actually slows things down.

 The fact is now that nobody really cares about systemd-readahead much
 anymore. Nobody in the systemd team still works on a laptop with
 rotating media, hence nobody tries to optimize it in any way. And it
 probably needs a lot of looking after and love to still be useful as
 general purpose systems, instead of just slowing them down...

 So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
 remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
 historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
 happening...

 (Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
 the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
 needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
 from systemd).

 I fully understand that not everybody uses SSDs yet, and also that
 theoretically doign systemd-readahead on SSD could be beneficial still
 (since RAM is still orders of magnitude faster than SSDs), but it's
 really not about that, it's about maintainership and giving the tool the
 love it needs.


heh, ouch  X_X

I can understand your sentiment, though. I've identified plenty of cases
where readahead just isn't working out well at all, and the constant
tweaking has left it ... quite a bit messy.

Auke
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[systemd-devel] [HEADS-UP] Intent to remove readahead from systemd

2014-08-14 Thread Lennart Poettering
Heya,

Since its early days systemd contained the systemd-readahead tool, whose
job was to improve boot times by reading files in their order on disk,
before they would actually be needed by applications. In times of SSD
the benefit of systemd-readahead is much less convincing, in many case
it actually slows things down.

The fact is now that nobody really cares about systemd-readahead much
anymore. Nobody in the systemd team still works on a laptop with
rotating media, hence nobody tries to optimize it in any way. And it
probably needs a lot of looking after and love to still be useful as
general purpose systems, instead of just slowing them down...

So, I think with the release after the upcoming one we should just
remove it from the systemd package and just throw it on the pile of
historic cruft. So, yeah, here's the advance warning that this will be
happening...

(Well, unless somebody from the community who cares and wants to invest
the necessary time in it steps up and gives it the love it really
needs. If nobody does until that release, I will delete the component
from systemd).

I fully understand that not everybody uses SSDs yet, and also that
theoretically doign systemd-readahead on SSD could be beneficial still
(since RAM is still orders of magnitude faster than SSDs), but it's
really not about that, it's about maintainership and giving the tool the
love it needs.

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering, Red Hat
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