My take is that a hard-core fan of any sport is rarely pleased with TV coverage, no
matter how good it is. I suspect that if you logged onto lists for any other sport
you'd find a general dissatisfaction with the product. And that includes the sports
which hog the bulk of the network sports
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Olympic Relay Events
Ed Koch writes:
Replace the World Cup in the even-numbered years between Summer Olympics (i.e. 2002,
2006, etc.) with a World Relay Championship. Go with the standard relay events: 4x1,
4x2, 4x4, 4x8, 4x15, SMR, DMR, SHH.
From a US standpoint this
The Americans will NOT beat Obikwelu, Thompson, Boldon or Da Silva. NO
MEDAL. They could be running 19.2's.
I'm almost afraid to ask this question - how do you figure they get down to 19.2?
There may not be a medal for the US but none of these guys is going to run 19.2.
The only male short
On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Justin Clouder wrote:
The simple truth is that the US is not strong enough any more to allow for so many
great athletes to fall by the wayside.
While I'm not sold that the US Trials' goal is to select the athletes most likely to
win medals at the Games, I find it
What is one of the biggest image problems of hte sport today for
Mr John Q Public ?? The idea that everyone in the sport is using drugs ..
I'm not really sure that John Q Public cares all that much about drug use in sports.
Seems to be a media focal point and gets this list riled up but the
The flaw with this theory is that it does not take into account performances which are
significantly outside the norm. For instance if Johnson had run 19.32 in one race
beating all of his rivals and his rivals had beaten him nine times in a series of ten
I would have a tough time agreeing that
The system proposed by Garry does not in my view account for the fact that not every
athlete puts out 100 percent in all races.
If this is the case, which I'm not sure it is (does this go back to the Bailey defense
of 6 weeks or so ago?) then that is the athlete's problem. There is no system
Yeah but it made for, at least in my home, great TV. My wife and kids were
watching some of it and called me in to watch the "selection" which consisted
of having the cameraman go right up to the door which had a sign indicating
that it was the "selection room". The door was then shut in our
That's the one thing that separates our sport from the so-called "professional"
sports like football. I don't really care if it lacks the public spectator popularity,
(although lack of same probably keeps TFN subscriptions down), it's something I can
believe in as ahealthy activity which
Salah Hissou has pulled out of the games, due to an "ankle injury."
By the quotes I'm assuming, perhaps mistakenly that his injury is doubted. I
have yet to read of a distance athlete pulling out who based on recent
performance I thought was going to medal. Hissou had not run well in his
Between 11 and 12pm NBC has concentrated on summarizing the medals and
showing medal ceremonies with an occasional event such as last night's 50
free, which was great by the way.
NBC does seem to be cleaning out the closets of up close and personals as
last night we got Janet Evans UCP for
The Tampa Tribune is only listing results (at least in Track and Field) for
members of the US team. As far as we're concerned there was no gold in the
shot put yesterday.
Steve S.
In a message dated 9/27/00 6:50:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By my reckoning it should only get sued if it attempts to exact a
punishment (i.e. restraint of trade or some such).
I'm not an attorney either however the right to sue is always out there and
the cash
You knew it was just a matter of time before Jim Rome and the clones would
start smacking around the 4x100 relay team "act" after they won. You think
Michael Johnson would act like this after he won??? Didn't think so...
I hope this isn't an attempt at holding Jim Rome up as a model of
And 'I can't believe you all can sit here and say that kind of stuff about'
the Chinese and everyone else who dropped out before the games.
The cynicists and conspiratorists may be completely out of control on this list but I
do believe the Chinese themselves admitted that drug positives were
No worries here Paul. North American sportwriters are paying absolutely no attention
to Track and 'er ... Athletics and don't give a rat's ass who wins AOY in our
sport. They might know Zelezny but only as a guy who had a tryout with the Atlanta
Braves baseball team after the '96 games.
Of course, unlike various sports overseen by the IOC (as well as NFL
football and many college athletics), Major League Baeball does not randomly
test players for any performance enhancing drugs.
And thus does not have to deal with public relations disasters such as positives to
stars, false
Internationally, she has done less than Joetta Clark, Jearl Clark, and far less than
Henry Marsh, but she is the one tauted at nationals, and profiled at the Games. A
very disturbing pattern in the lore of Nike and track.
Disturbing. I don't know about that. Nike's apparently pretty smart.
In a message dated 10/13/00 3:12:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When someone wins a gold medal inthe Olyumpics in only
their 8th official race, something seems terribly
wrong. It is either time for the IAAF to increase the
hiegth of the womens hurdles or scrap the
Bob Hayes
Valery Borzov
These two were dominate (I think...vets help me here:) but competed in
another era.
Was Borzov really that dominant? Mo is probably just as much so although his
career is shorter and incomplete. Hayes belongs on any list of greatest
sprinters.
Steve S.
Someone in another post talked about
Mo peaking .. I'm not sure how that came about .. Mo just runs fast all the
time .. His one great asset is his ability to always run fast in big meets
(averaging 9.84 in his 3 championship wins) .. But he runs just as fast
elsewhere .. Whereas Most of the
Since we're ranking sprinters and a lot of listers place mucho importance on
winning gold medals at OG and WC where does Merlene Ottey fit into the
woman's side of the greatest ever debate? She certainly should be considered
but has always ended up with a "lessor" medal.
Steve S.
Or it could be that winning one gold is worth
more than winning one gold but getting sixth in another race - this reduction
in the number of doubles also coincided with the advent of "above
the table" money.
I think this is a larger factor than I have seen considered in this
discussion. I
When NBC's Tom Hammond gave the results of the 10k, he gave due credit to
both Meb and Abdi. I also seem to recall him mentioning them during the
"live" call, but I don't know what actually made "air".
Walt Murphy
Tom Hammond mentioned that the two Americans were in the race and later on
Not arguing for or against the "EPO theory" however I'm not sure of some of
the facts used in the argument.
What was it that let Kipkoech run faster in
his 2nd 5k (in Rome) than he could run in the Helsinki and LA 5k's?
Didn't Kipkoech run 13:14 in LA?
What was it that let heretofore UNKNOWN
This is floating around out there and has apparently attached to more than
one email. I got a message today at work that it came from Conway through the
University of Missouri (?). I was able to clean it fortunately.
Steve S.
Two women in the top 25. Not bad. Or just an indication that the field wasn't
quite that deep.
Steve S.
In order of importance and attention to this US residing fan:
1. Olympics/World Champs
2. IAAF Season
tie 3. College Season
tie 3. US Open Season
5. US High School Season
Juniors is so far down this person's radar that if it hadn't been brought up
on this list I wouldn't have known it was
In a message dated 10/23/00 5:24:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry, but I'd rank Olympics #2, and NCAA D1 X-C/THE GROTE POLL far above
and beyond all else at #1.
Grote
adiRP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] replies:
Who's Grote?
Hmmm. I think the list supervisor needs to be
Since they finished 23rd and 25th respectively in the overall race it seems
that sticking with them
was a difficult chore for any man not just limited to Americans.
Steve S.
I just got a chance to see the rebroadcast of the Chicago Marathon on
Fox. At one point in the marathon one of the
In a message dated 10/26/00 5:41:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Are 'our boys' succumbing to the evil temptations? Surely there'll be
a choirboy who will document the suggestion that he use illegals to get
closer to thetop. I forget the band, but McEwen's
Is the McLaren any relation to Grant?
Steve S.
1 31:50.0 3:11 141 BENDO, STEVE GUELPH
2 31:54.6 3:12 140 COOLSAET, REID GUELPH
3 31:57.0 3:12 142 MURPHY, TAYLOR GUELPH
4 32:01.8 3:13 149 SAIDLA, KARL LAKEHEAD
5
How many other women can claim the competitive range from 1500 to marathon
that O'Sullivan has?
Grete Waitz anyone?
Steve S
Ed,
I would agree that while Torres should be one of the favorites for the
individual title, Kimani has to be the favorite for a reason which goes
beyond the fact that he is the defender and apparently in pretty good shape.
The individuals on the
teams which are Team title contenders might
Coach Mac's record stands on it's own. He's obviously has an excellent system
which allows his athletes to perform their best on the right day. To say that
Stanford has more "talent" than Arkansas is just not true. Karanu, Travis,
Karie and Link certainly stack up, in terms of perceived
I fail to see how music would detract from a track meet. It's hard to imagine
a pro sport in the US without the music, cheerleaders, scoreboard games, etc.
to keep our interest although I do remember a time when it didn't exist.
Hasn't affected my enjoyment of the games and probably makes the
If baseball indoors weren't weird enough, in between innings you get deafening rock
music blaring
throughout the stadium. Believe me it adds absolutely nothing to the game.
The music and other "non baseball" entertainment is not there for you, the baseball
fan. It's there for the people
Allow me to chime in here. Considering this was a down year for the event and no one
in particular stands out I would think that greater emphasis would be placed on honors
won and the Olympic Gold Medalist won a pretty big honor.
For lack of any outstanding candidate I would give it to the
In a message dated 12/20/00 3:54:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
whether by one pretty good Soviet sprinter who would not fair
very well in today's far more competitive field,
I don't have that much of an opinion regarding the genetics issue however the above statement is
I've been to hundreds of distance races and never had
someone bring up an elite distance race even during Olympics/WC.
I've been in on Football (American) conversations and had people refer to
wideouts/running backs as something along the lines of "he's fast enough to
be an Olympic Sprinter".
In a message dated 12/22/00 10:18:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The truth, IMHO, is that the public watches sprints on TV but participates
in long distance. Every weekend there are a multitude of road races with
thousands of joggers out there "competing". But those
I am sure there are reasons or criteria, but they change year to year. And in
some cases look to be more personal than professional.
Got to disagree with this statement. I don't know the athletes involved nor the people
at TFN from a hole in the wall and I have yet to read the magazine or
Netters,
There has been a couple of mentions of John Capel recently and as many of
you are aware he has declared himself eligible for the NFL draft in April.
Listening to ESPN radio on my way home from work last week there was an
interview with
NFL draft "guru" Mel Kiper Jr. who, in his
the real story is that the ballots were counted in florida!!! now, guys,
does
that explain everything??
I've pretty much stayed on the outside looking (with a lot of bemusement at
the emotion involved) in at the rants and raves on the list regarding the
rankings but now this has really
DGS wrote:
That is not to say that the Games are not very important, but they cannot be
the end-all, be-all. Especially in an extended year like this past one. You
have athletes who sat the whole summer for the Games, while the majority ran
entire seasons, in some cases 2 seasons, and they
"If I went to the World Championships this year, it would be just to run
and that's never been part of the plan."
Uh-huh, and that's why he's running this year for a farewell tour but not
running in the champs...
Dan
Dan,
I don't know whether you've heard but Derek Jeter has announced that
Dalton writes:
After all in the end itis about who can get from point A to point B in the fastest
times during the
season, and therefore only the clock should matter.
??? Why don't we just use the performance lists to rank in that case?
Also, if this is the case how do you explain the walks?
I just ordered two cheetah's online from www.getyerfreecats.net
I'm sure my kids will be doin' some movin'.
Steve S.
In an effort to make the kids swim as
fast as possible, the kids dive in and start swimming to the other end.
They have a 3 second head start before the coach throws a small
How about Chandra Cheesebrough in place of Maicel? And how about Flojo over Marion in
a battle of the doublers?
4 x 400
1-Marion Jones
2-Gwen Torrence
3-Maicel Malone
4-Valerie Brisco
Steve S
In a message dated 1/19/01 3:06:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
First off I think the records do need to be revised
Good theory. I would agree with this but
.. Have hearings .. Convene a panel
Bd idea. The sport would be dragged through the mud for years.
Bayi also competed in the steeple in '72 not getting out of the heats.
Steve S
Tell me how winning the world half marathon champs a number of years has hurt Tergat.
Tell me how Kennedy
hooking up with a Khannouchi on the roads in the spring or fall would hurt him.
Steve S.
Even if American audiences know that he is an adopted foreigner, there is nothing
like seeing the home colours come first to rejuvenate interest in a
sport.
Just like Mark Plaatjes in '93. Remember the telephone call from the White House. The
parade down Broadway and the SNL appearance?
As
Ditch the 4k.
The appeal of the World XC Champs is the bringing together of the world's
best distance runner's over one race. Everyone from 800m runners to
marathoners battling it out. Who is the current men's world xc champ? It's
Mohammed Mourhit not whoever won last year's 4k.
Steve S.
My memory may be fading as I get older but I don't recall the Bickford brothers as an
act on the world scene. Bruce was #1 in the mid eighties, not sure which year, but I
don't recall Stan appearing on any international teams and I am almost certain he was
not world ranked at any time.
Steve
He ended up tossing a dummy over a bar set at about 6'4" as the track was too
snowy. No mention of a metric equivalent.
Steve S
Y ask Y:
Just heard from a friend that Nathan Leeper lept on Letterman on Friday
night. Anyone see it?
I'm told Letterman made a joke about the top winter sports
Listers,
This thread is one of the many reasons the sport will never succeed in the
US.
Ever go to a baseball game? Football game? A rock, pop, country concert?
Hockey game? There's even standing during tennis matches. Doesn't everyone
stand at golf tournaments? Hell, I went to a Monster
Not even drink driving rules are that
strict - if you were unaware you'd drunk anything, you'd be let off - and I
doubt that there is a single legal system in the developed world which would
support no-fault removal of someone's livelihood.
In the US you would not be let off. It is strictly a
In the last few months I haven't been able to pay as much attention to a
sport that I really enjoy which is supposed to be the subject of this list.
What I've observed while trying to catch up and find out some results is
greatly distressing.
A couple of topics stickout:
1. During coverage
Using myself as an example I was a NY/NJ tough guy and moved to Florida, where if it's
70 it's referred to as "chilly" and morphed into a pansy. I do agree with the theory,
however that the harsher conditions in some locals tend to breed tougher runners.
Steve S.
This proposed rule change will have ZERO, non, nada positive effect on the popularity
of the sport and may be to the detriment if anyone is paying attention. There is a
difference between a rule of conduct and a rule of sport. A rule of conduct such as
striking an official or opposing athlete
I've managed over the past few days to improve my reaction time. I'm now up
to a record 1.28765 pdps (posts deleted per second).
We've managed to raise the Banality Index to new heights.
Steve S.
In a message dated 4/7/01 10:37:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
on 7/4/01 12:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have no trouble with Darrell (or anyone) quoting whatever the heck they
want
at the end of their posts. I do, however, think that
Anyone who's run a road race in NYC will fondly remember Kurt who would find some way
of introducing seemingly everyone in the field. The field would invariably end up
yelling to him good naturedly "Kurt-
Start the race!!"
Kurt usually had a crowd around him and the smiles on the faces in the
Got to agree with Darrell on this. I've seen too many cases where people's
lives were for all intents and purposes or significantly improved by
nutritional supplements including my own. I won't bore you with the
individual details.
We do not get a full spectrum of proper nutrition including
Let's line up Shorter, Rodgers, Virgin, Meyer, Lindsay,
Bjorkland, Durden, Wells, Beardsley, et al - most of whom competed at the same time at
an elite level - at the starting line in Hopkington and the top ten would take a
decidedly American look even today. Throw in whatever pharmeceuticals
In a message dated 4/23/01 10:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you can't get into 3:52 territory by age 18, you're probably never gonna
set a world mile record.
Any idea what Morceli and El G's PR's were at 18? Not sure myself about El G
but Morceli did not run
So why so many great soccer players from Western Africa?
I don't know about soccer players but I wonder if Jon has come up with a child
slavery gene for soccer players from West Africa?
Steve S.
If memory serves me correct - Fiasconaro ran for Italy after South Africa was banned
from International competition.
Steve S
Wouldn't it be great if Kennedy could set the all-comer's mark and the AR in
one night! Wishful thinking ...
As much as I'd like to see this happen I can't see any American running 27:20 this
weekend. That would mean that whoever it is in 13:05-13:10 shape and there's little
evidence of
In a message dated 5/7/01 6:39:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Writing that something is "private" does not entitle them to attack me or
anyone else in a disrespectful and arrogant way, as did Mr. McCann.
Moreover, his attacks were not "private" as he sent his screeds
If Gail Devers made an announcement that she would like to run on the 4x1 at
this year's WC, but she doesn't plan to run at Nationals this year, should
she be allowed to run on the team ??? Or even hitting closer to home for you,
how about Dennis Mitchell ???
Decent example with Devers. Bad
This is simple to me. As a fan of the sport I want to see the best at all
meets. If he doesn't want to run in the US Champs and there's a way to get
him on the team in Edmonton then use it. Who cares whatever the perception is
that he's brought to the sport. To me it's been mostly positive
Eddie Oti mentioned:
What is the point of prohibiting an asthmatic from using vasodilators? It gives him
no advantage over a healthy competitor, it merely evens the playing field somewhat.
Denying athletes prescribed medicines that allow them to function normally is both
unhealthy and
In a message dated 5/27/01 8:52:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Usually I agree with Kebba, but to mitigate the joy of Webb's
accomplishment today (not in the past not in the future but NOW) that
with a disclaimer is
a tragedy.
- Ed Parrot
i understand what you mean.
Not sure about Lassiter but isn't Goucher running the mile on Sunday in Portland?
Steve S
Rabbits go back to Bannister at the very least. I don't recall them with the
regularity you see them today until the late '70's in the mile. I don't recall Walker
having one in his first under 3:50 race nor with Moorcroft (although I seem to
remember a comment from the 2nd placer I thought he
Are we ripe for the taking this year?
Steve S. - who as a fan thinks that a certain MJ should be on the team.
In a message dated 6/24/01 10:00:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Isn't this how Jennings won last year's OT? I don't think he changed his
tactics specifically for Webb although since Webb had the fastest time in the
US at the mile I would think he'd be aware that he might come on at the end
I realize tickets need to be sold but why does the sport consistently set
itself up for the negative publicity of "failed" record attempts? If the Rome
5000 ends up in a blanket finish in 12:51 it will reported as a negative
rather than the race it is supposed to be amongst many of the world's
Isn't Broe now the 5th fastest American?
Steve S.
I really like the guy who works next to Larry Rawson (sorry I cannot
remember his name).
He adds an aweful lot of excitement to his race calls.
Adrian Karsten and he is good.
Steve S
Is it because of Flojo's
disappearance afer she dominated in 88?
That's what opened my eyes.
Steve S.
I guess MJ will have eat his hat. He said, I think, that Kenderis would
never win another Champs 200.
He also admitted that he was wrong about that - something a boatload of announcers
should try.
Steve S.
I'm wondering if the British genes are just not as good currently as they were in the
Coe/Ovett era. Let's face it - if the British had produced another generation of Coe's
and Ovett's including a natural progression of improvement they would be running right
with the best the world has to
TV has jumped all over car racing recently. They show them for hours -
going 'round, and 'round, and 'round, and 'round, and 'round. So exciting,
right?
Tough comparison. No (I hope) chance for death in the distance races. Car racing's
main appeal is crashes whether the fans want to admit it
My friends and I used to joke that in the 5k and 10k, to make things
interesting, a sniper should sysematically knock off the last place runner
at the end of each lap. Perhaps Craig Masback, Charlton Heston, and NBC
should all get together and come up with something. What do you guys think?
If El G, Ali S-S and Ngeny all run the 1500 tomorrow, it would be a rare
race pitting the (very loosely) past, present and future of the event
against each other.
Ali S-S is not running according to the website. Too bad. Bernard Lagat is running.
That's still a pretty fair trio.
The coach was Dr. Ernst van Aken, who (in the 50s and 60s)
advocated a similar training approach as Lydiard, and who
claimed that women are more suited for endurance sports
(like 12 hour runs or triple triathlons) as men. He wrote
many popular books on distance running, was one of the main
I'm not sure where his marks placed him on the All time lists but at the time Pre was
also only 5 secs off the WR at 5k, and a couple of seconds off the WR at 2k and 3k.
This in addition to his 10k AR being 6th at that time.
Steve S.
Kurt ... you are usually right on ... but not this time.
Surprised Boulami isn't going to be there to tout his supremacy
The cynic in me has the Kenyans all threatening to come up lame if he ran so they can
have a shot at the record by themselves.
Steve S.
I think our minds have been tainted by phony juniors running
13:00 and 7:58 steeples and we are psyched out.
Who's getting psyched out? Certainly not our juniors who for the most part unaware of
what Kenyan athletes are doing. Pick a random HS cross team and ask them
what the WJR's are and
shagging flies for hours upon hours as a kid... every day.
Hardly the most fun thing to do.
Say what? I still go out and shag flies occasionally for enjoyment. As a matter of
fact this is how I discovered as a kid that I liked to run. I hoped whoever was
hitting would hit the ball as far
I can only go by personal experience. I can honestly say that by the time I
was a junior in high school, I knew all the world records, junior world
records, etc. With the presence of the internet, I would bet that the best
kids on most teams know what is going on internationally.
When I was
I'm sure more than you think know that there are people out there who
run sub 3:30 and sub 1:44. Thanks to sites like Letsrun.com and the late
(RIP) tnfmedia, how couldn't people know? I say again, if they don't, well,
that's just one more factor as to why our country has fallen behind, and
What few kids do now in the USA is incorporate moving over the ground as
part of childhood play. Long before I thought of running on a team in a
competition I ran around for transportation, back in my 1950s childhood, in my
dungarees and US keds. Running was part of play
This is partly the more
What would your reaction be to your own child (not as a coach or knowledgable runner,
but as a parent)? What would most parents be today?
Today's parents are also always right with the kids of all ages in many sports all the
time. Thus you have 5 hour trips to soccer matches - something
Ephedrine you can get caught with due to careless label
reading.
Generally, and I don't know if all companies follow the labelling laws, if a product
contains ephedra it will either say it directly (or mention Ma Huang), mention that it
contains a certain percentage of psuedoephedrine or
on TV the last couple of days they say that a place
they're just referring to as 'the Armory' has been
set up as a clearinghouse for missing person
registration.
I'm curious whether this is the same place that was
refurbished a few years ago to become an indoor
track mecca, and hosted one of
I don't understand this discussion. And I also don't understand the logic
behind USATFs decision making process. Why aren't the standards for the
marathon the same for track? Top 3 go... assuming they have the A standard.
Because the marathon is different from (most of) the track race in
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