On 2 August 2010 00:47, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, maybe I'm wrong (that's why I won't even try to change things
without consensus), but return to root of all this - do you agree that
we keep amenity=fire_hydrant and do nothing about it or we try to
introduce emergency=* at
On 31 July 2010 19:24, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
I don't understand your attitude at all: it hardly takes a moment to add a
helpful comment, but many minutes or hours to make the change itself. It is
hardly a burden.
You gave a very simplistic comment example, how about
On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
And you are selfish to be making demands that some deem
unreasonable... see I can twist logic just as much as you can...
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On 31 July 2010 20:17, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
sad, sad, sad to be so selfish towards your colleagues.
Oh and I'm still waiting for the comment example based on people that
make a lot more edits than a simply changing the direction a one way
street runs...
On 31 July 2010 22:05, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
That is indeed selfish, because you're saying that your time is more
valuable than theirs.
And you are saying their time is more valuable than the person
contributing the data, this is going no where fast, people have their
On 31 July 2010 22:47, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Sounds sensible to me, I'm busy tracing new nearmap imagery.
With extremely useful changeset comments? :)
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On 31 July 2010 22:53, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
pick from anywhere between nobody's gonna read this anyway to if you want
That's sad because, as I pointed out, if you get into the habit of writing
good changeset comments then the additional work this causes is going to be
On 31 July 2010 23:25, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
No. Equally valuable. But they are more. Only one person makes the edits,
but more than one person look at the edits.
Sure, if on average more than one person views the changeset
information, is this really happening though?
All
On 31 July 2010 21:09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
You can see the what but never the why.
Most changesets seem to summerise what they did not why they did it,
the only why that you could get from a changeset is from any source
tags as someone else pointed out, however there
On 1 August 2010 02:18, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
I could imagine dropping the mandatory changeset comment, but when left
empty, display a pop-up that explains why changeset comments are important
and ask the user to reconsider. (Indeed that dialog could be shown whenever
the
On 1 August 2010 03:43, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Another way to look at it is that it's your own time you are saving.
If another mapper has a question about your changes and they have to contact
you and you need to reply, that uses a lot more time than a quick explanation
attached to
On 1 August 2010 04:39, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Agreed. I think the comment should say 'why' not 'what', and if the change is
derived from something other than ground survey, cite the source used. It
shouldn't take more than a few seconds.
I generally always use source=* (and
On 31 July 2010 10:36, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote:
Then it doesn't help at all - what if ODbL 1.1 says that you can freely
relicense to CC-Zero? And if you think that can't happen, go look at the GNU
Free Documentation Licence 1.3 and Wikipedia. That kind of legal hijinks
On 30 July 2010 16:51, Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net wrote:
Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not
maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't
know they need to upgrade. Things will just stop working for them,
without a notice.
Is this
On 30 July 2010 21:15, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:
Every Smartphone OSM data consumer I've looked at has been unusable because
of tagging interpretation. Compared to OSM, data consumers seem to be very
inflexible and unaware of any but the most rigid tag schemes that haven't
changed in
On 30 July 2010 21:27, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote:
Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when
uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset
comments are tremendously helpful.
On 31 July 2010 03:43, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
Here's an example of a change you claim you haven't made:
No, I claimed to have made those, as I pointed out to you in a
previous reply, what exactly was so important about these locations
that no one could be bothered to spend 2
On 31 July 2010 03:34, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
It appears that you have indeed made lots of changes in the database before
discussing on the list:
e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/771625043/history
Hmmm thought I fixed that by reverting that changeset... I'll fix it
now
On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working
in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that
What change, I have made a suggestion and was after comments, so far
some
On 31 July 2010 02:03, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
John Smith, your method stinks.
What stinks specifically, you even seem to agree in your next paragraph.
You seem to believe that your preferred tag of emergency=fire_station,
etc is better. Rather than adding your preferred tags
On 31 July 2010 03:48, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
One of my points in the other discussion what that writing proper changeset
comments also means showing respect to the rest of the community. Showing
respect, interacting with humans, is something that no piece of software can
do
On 31 July 2010 04:17, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
You are contradicting yourself, John Smith. You replaced
amenity=ambulance_station with your emergency=ambulance_station. This
is unnecessary and inappropriate without wide community support.
Since no one bothered to document
On 31 July 2010 05:03, S.Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp wrote:
You can use any tags you like, but not on this page.
I respectfully disagree, as do many others, the voting method
currently employed is deeply flawed.
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On 30 July 2010 16:16, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
If You have indicated to OSMF that you waive any rights in Your
Contents (dedication to the 'public domain'), OSMF will additionally
use or sub
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#Queensland
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On 30 July 2010 19:40, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
On a different topic of sourcing, as I mentionned some time ago, Spot Images
will be releasing images of France in the near future for a period of 6
months. The attribution is very important to them and that's why someone is
On 30 July 2010 20:24, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
Yup, hence the reason I mentioned it was about a different topic of
sourcing, and I couldn't find the previous thread.
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2010-July/006868.html
Mackay imagery seems to be online now as well:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#Queensland
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Toowoomba imagery is now online as well...
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On 30 July 2010 02:59, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
Firstly, not all hospitals are emergency hospitals, so I think that is a bad
idea.
Point taken...
Secondly John, you seem to have unilaterally decided to make this change,
and actually implemented some of it in the course of an
On 30 July 2010 03:35, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
You have already changed amenity=ambulance_station to
emergency=ambulance_station, which was not listed above, so you have already
started to make these worldwide changes.
It wasn't documented at all on the wiki, at all, so if it was
On 30 July 2010 04:09, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break
every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is
correct?
It's slightly amusing how it comes up every now and then about what to
do about
On 30 July 2010 04:54, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:
If there IS a change for medical stuff, I would personally rather see
the medical=* proposal be used.
At this stage it'd be nice to sort out the emergency=* issue before
trying to tackle anything else :)
I agree with Chris that it
On 29 July 2010 17:58, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:
If a new user, who has agreed to the contributor terms, makes a contribution
that this derived from work that is *only* licensed under CC-BY-SA do they
have the right to allow that contribution to be licensed under ODbL. I
don't think they
On 29 July 2010 22:47, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
That was another question I meant to ask. Does one map in accordance
with the legal jurisdiction that the OSM servers are within, the
jurisdiction where the mapper is, or the jurisdiction of the area
being mapped?
You personally
On 29 July 2010 23:34, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote:
1) YOU have to ask Nearmap if they are OK with YOU using their imagery under
the terms of the CT
Which they aren't so...
2) you cant use Nearmap imagery for tracing, and you should ask for all your
edits where you have used
On 30 July 2010 15:40, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
I was going to just create a new account, and not agree to the CTs,
only to discover you cannot create an account without accepting. That
means that no new members can contribute by deriving information from
Nearmap
New dataset of the electoral boundaries just became available:
http://data.australia.gov.au/638
I'm not sure it's worth doing anything with these as they tend to
shift too frequently, although they could be imported without trying
to merge them into existing boundaries so they can be reimported
On 28 July 2010 18:01, James Andrewartha tr...@student.uwa.edu.au wrote:
Each state is done once every seven years, that doesn't seem overly
frequent to me.
After posting that I noticed that it was crown copyright, so we can't
do anything with it anyway...
Does anyone have a suitable picture of a SES station so it can be used
on the wiki?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Emergency
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On 28 July 2010 23:05, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote:
There's one just up the road from me, but my experience is that these are
brick buildings without much distinction.
Most of the ones I've seen are tin sheds, in any case it's just to
illustrate and for some reason the image of
On 29 July 2010 01:43, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
1) Change the tag to source=nearmap: that's misattributing any parts
of the way that you didn't update
2) Change the tag to source=yahoo;nearmap: tedious, but relatively accurate
3) Add source tags to the individual nodes that you
On 28 July 2010 01:04, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
maybe this could be treated more general? It would be really appealing
to have localized subway/lightrail-station-symbols
Depending how much effort you want to put into this, you could also
render customised POI icons
On 27 July 2010 21:07, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
If an existing way was marked as source:yahoo, but I made some minor
alterations from nearmap imagery what should I do to the source?
Should I leave it as source:yahoo and add source:nearmap to the
changeset? Or should I
On 27 July 2010 22:54, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
I'd be cautious about changing anything that is source=survey (gps or
otherwise) though to source=nearmap. I have done this in a couple of places
but it's thing's like a road being made dual carriage way when it was
originally a
On 28 July 2010 08:28, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
Okay, the only reason I was unsure is because if you only change part
of the way from nearmap imagery then you have part sourced from
nearmap, and part sourced from yahoo or survey.
In that case, while far from ideal, but
On 28 July 2010 13:39, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Most streams I look at on OSM have been drawn uphill, and I've been
reversing the direction of ones I notice as wrong. Indeed, I find it more
natural to draw streams that way myself, and then reverse them.
Sometimes it's hard to
On 27 July 2010 10:47, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
I can find no reference to 'junction=approach' in the wiki. What does this
signify?
Obviously it was used to suppress road names and oneway arrows.
I did something similar with link=yes which came up in a tagging
thread a few
How do people tag over taking sections on highways where there is no
physical separation between oncoming traffic?
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On 26 July 2010 20:56, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote:
On 26/07/2010, at 7:12 PM, John Smith wrote:
How do people tag over taking sections on highways where there is no
physical separation between oncoming traffic?
I've never tagged them before, but there is
http
On 26 July 2010 21:31, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote:
Either that or tag it as lanes=3 and somehow indicate which direction the
extra lane is in. As far as I recall, the rules for an overtaking lane
aren't any different to the right hand lanes of a two-each-way road when it's
On 25 July 2010 22:57, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
actually I'd like different styles by country (with fallback to a
region standard, say per continent or sth. similar) but then not on
separated layers but stitched together as one singular map. You could
have local road
On 26 July 2010 04:56, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
* Tag Central - a schema for OpenStreetMap
Do you know about the default proposal?
It seems to try to solve the same problem by stuffing default values
into state/country polygons/relations, rather than needing an addition
Not a single reply to Liz's request, so either these are limited to
Australia or nobody else cares that much what the tag would be called,
either way I made a new wiki page for this and shifted the content
from the tagging guidelines page
On 26 July 2010 12:39, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
On Mon, 2010-07-26 at 09:37 +1000, John Smith wrote:
Not a single reply to Liz's request, so either these are limited to
Australia or nobody else cares that much what the tag would be called,
Just a thought, but you do realise
Is now online:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#Queensland
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On 25 July 2010 00:06, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
I propose 3) Occam's Razor
How does 'the simplest explanation is usually the correct one' apply here?
the now hundreds of people who've been involved in the ODbL in the last few
years, some of whom are real lawyers are all wrong
I'd be
On 25 July 2010 02:33, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote:
Presumably the same thing that prevents the copyright on a DVD you copy
off a TV screen from evaporating when you burn it back to DVD. (I mention
copyright as BY is a copyright licence.)
I think his point is about ODBL and not extending
On 25 July 2010 06:25, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100722/18242810326.shtml
The full opinion is worth a read. Or you could just ask Anthony?
That is an interesting ruling, where the higher court over turned a
ruling based on contract law and it upheld
On 24 July 2010 15:58, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote:
I've tried cellardoor via google and not hit on any synonyms yet
'Tasting Room' comes back with quite a few hits, although cellar door
sounds better to me...
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On 25 July 2010 09:25, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote:
Should we put some effort into defining a standard based on Australian
principles then post it on the tagging list? Easier to deal with a few
rather than many suggestions/interests...maybe ;)
Liz posted a question to the
On 23 July 2010 15:31, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:24:53 +1000
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
something else... Also I marked the RAAF taxiway etc as
access=military although access=private might be more accurate since
you can get permission
I don't think this kind of thing is Aussie specific and it would be
better off being on it's own web page and/or going through the tagging
list...
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On 24 July 2010 15:28, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010, John Smith wrote:
I don't think this kind of thing is Aussie specific and it would be
better off being on it's own web page and/or going through the tagging
list...
I have no idea about similar systems in other
On 22 July 2010 14:55, {Tim} m526244+osm...@gmail.com wrote:
I, obviously, agree. This situation (speed limits in either direction
bearing no relation to one another) is perhaps more common than you
realise. and upon further thought, apart from trivial cases why should
it not be so?
The
On 22 July 2010 16:24, Simon Biber simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
To indicate specifically that it is a winery, perhaps you could introduce a
sub-category like shop=alcohol, alcohol=winery.
Some people might think alcohol=* would be used for tagging products
rather than purpose...
What about
Sam just sent me this link:
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/University_of_Canberra/RCC_Canberra
It's a wiki unconference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_Changes_Camp
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On 23 July 2010 06:41, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes I'm thinking that tourism=attraction is probably the most appropriate
tag, in that I'm probably interested in the winery due to tourism rather
than commerce.
Not all places that sell wine in this fashion make their own wine,
It looks like it's half a military airfield and half a commercial
airport and I've sort of split it up with a couple of relations but
I'm not entirely sure what I've done accurately describes the
situation.
Is anyone familiar with Wagga airport able to comment further on the situation?
On 23 July 2010 14:39, Babstar babsta...@gmail.com wrote:
Check out this link:
http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/ersa/FAC_YSWG_3-Jun-2010.pdf
it may give you some more guidance.
Thanks for that, it shows the airport split up more or less how I
split the mutipolygon relations,
On 23 July 2010 15:13, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Not really usable as they are copyright.
It was useful as confirmation, rather than copying...
The airport is joint RAAF civil, when I worked there in 1986 the division was
the edge of the apron between the control tower building
On 21 July 2010 19:36, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
It would be a half truth because some person well known to list readers
changed highway=residential to
highway=residential maxspeed=50 source=default (or similar)
which has altered a lot of last editors
maxspeed:source=default Residential
On 22 July 2010 12:26, {Tim} m526244+osm...@gmail.com wrote:
Do I smell a plot whereby somebody who is a non-ODbL true believer has
taken the opportunity to taint everything in Australia?
I just want more people to contribute maxspeed information to make
routing more useful, and if people see
On 22 July 2010 12:58, {Tim} m526244+osm...@gmail.com wrote:
In truth, seeing your update did prompt me to take a little more care in
recording speed limits. Would you believe I set off a speed camera's
flash whilst provably going 5km/h *under* the listed speed limit. Looks
In the UK there is
On 22 July 2010 14:39, Kevin Ruth Sheather
mobilesheath...@bigpond.com wrote:
tracks and make changes. The biggest problem is where increase and decrease
signs for opposite directions don’t coincide or where some are missing or, I
sometimes think, deliberately not installed so traffic will be
On 20 July 2010 16:55, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
The contributor terms are linked to the license change question and cannot
be viewed in isolation.
Why not?
It seems like a fairly arbitrary decision to force them to be linked...
I would also like to draw attention to the fact
On 20 July 2010 18:17, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
p.s. I still want to hear official word from Steve or anyone about CT
Section 3, even if it is no. But please without PD crowd is mighty
crap
Hmmm so it seems that Fredrick thinks it's ok to loose people as long
as they aren't
On 20 July 2010 18:59, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
Frederik, again you mix it all up. I said i'm fine with ODBL (and so
far everyone who rants about CT says nothing bad about ODBL). I truely
respect huge work putted into it. What I don't like is that CT section
3 practically
On 20 July 2010 18:50, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
The idea is to try and lose the smallest number of people in the process
while doing what is necessary. This requires that everyone is paid respect.
Telling people that they are stupid and their ideas crap is not a good way
to
On 20 July 2010 19:09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
I'm unwilling to continue the discussion on this level. Have a good time.
Sounds like par of the course, you refuse to even think about being
more flexible for current contributors, at least you aren't throwing
personal insults yet.
On 20 July 2010 19:11, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:
There is no contract between OSMF and most contributors (excepting newbies
who have signed up to the Contributor Terms)..
Erm since OSM-F does run OSM.org the old contributor agreement saying
you agree to license your work under cc-by-sa would
On 20 July 2010 16:10, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
Why not use:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:noname
I was told in the UK they have streets that aren't named, where as in
Australia all streets do have names, I sent an email to this list some
time ago asking for
On 20 July 2010 22:57, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
Asking a local is one option. I go with, I'm so lost. Can you tell
me what street this is?
That only works if there is someone to ask...
Visiting a business and asking for a business card is another option.
Business cards
On 21 July 2010 07:08, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
I made an animation a couple of years ago, and probably still have a copy.
What is now needed pictorially is the difference with and without my edits.
To do this properly, you need a complete copy of the DB dump which
included all history made
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#New_South_Wales.2FVictoria
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On 21 July 2010 14:27, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote:
If only public domain was accepted then all of the government's CC
imports would not be possible.
I'm not sure how complete it is, but there is a list of data sets and
the licenses:
On 19 July 2010 20:07, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote:
My source for the fact that creativity is not being relied on is the fact
that the ODbL doesn't rely on it and the ODbL is the currently proposed
replacement licence.
It's my understanding that once someone breaches contract with OSM-F
On 19 July 2010 21:04, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
If I follow that analogy, I can then use data from TeleAtlas if someone
breaches the contract, which is not the case. The licence is found on their
data.
Since when does contract law work that way?
The difference here is
On 19 July 2010 21:30, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote:
That said I don't think you'd need to export the data geographically in
order to break the contract requirement, just leave a planet dump on the
bus. :-/
Which is what I'm curious about, what makes ODBL copyright stick if
cc-by-sa
On 20 July 2010 09:21, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
Of course not. But if the data is *already* public domain, then violating a
contract and making the data available doesn't take it out of the public
domain either.
Isn't breach of contract the method that was used to put the tiger
data into
On 20 July 2010 10:22, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote:
Apparently lawyers with real law degrees think we do. Here's a crazy idea:
maybe they're right?
I don’t have the same unconditional love.
I'm left wondering if this problem is being over engineered by lawyers...
On 20 July 2010 10:38, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
I'm left wondering if this problem is being over engineered by lawyers...
Go ask on odc-discuss?
Is there much point if I'm only likely to get a biased answer?
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On 19 July 2010 20:05, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi again!
I still haven't heard from SteveC or others from OSMF official answer
wouldn't adding SA clause to section 3 in CT help situation a little -
at least it would give contributors a promise that if there another
license
On 19 July 2010 22:02, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
they can get away with) think twice before appropriating OSM data, what is the
evidence for the claim that the current licence is broken?
I think SteveC mentioned Nike, but how's that different from someone
in breach of GPL, didn't anyone
On 19 July 2010 23:19, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
And honestly, if at any future time two thirds of active OSM contributors
want to change to a non-SA license, why should we keep them from it? In one
or two years, two thirds of active contributors will be a greater number
of
On 19 July 2010 23:38, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
I am not employing hard line tactics, I am simply suggesting to go ahead
with what is on the table now.
Which many people cannot legally agree to, even if we do agree with
the ODBL. It seems to be a mad dash to force people down
On 19 July 2010 23:43, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
Then I don't see what's wrong with CC-BY-SA.
There is no proof there is anything wrong with it, just conjecture and
speculation it might not be good enough.
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On 20 July 2010 00:26, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, Frederik, I understand (but don't accept) your arguments here, but
to push discussion in more practical way: what to do with data
providers like Nearmap? How to convince them?
You also have both the Australian and New Zealand
On 20 July 2010 00:41, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Gun to your head?
It certainly feels like it from my point of view...
All I said is maybe we could be nicer to people in the LWG.
There is definitely communications problems here, not to mention
conflicting agendas at work, you can't
On 19 July 2010 23:19, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
want to change to a non-SA license, why should we keep them from it? In one
or two years, two thirds of active contributors will be a greater number
of people than all of us today. Who are we to tell them what to do? We're
the
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