Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
I would agree that it is completely wrong to change =groceries to =greengrocer. It would be nice if farlokko would revert these changes except where (s)he knows that only fruit and vegetables are sold. The descriptions given by Martin are also correct in the UK. I tend to use =convenience, as it is there on the wiki, but can see value in rehabilitating =grocer (perhaps rather than =groceries for consistency with =greengrocer) for small or specialist food stores that do not sell non-food items. Although grocery stores are disappearing in the UK and US and being replaced by more generalised convenience stores, they are still very much present in the more cultured countries of the European continent (e.g. France - épicerie, and I'm glad to learn that CZ is another of them!). Mike Harris -Original Message- From: MP [mailto:singular...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 October 2009 22:07 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries? I notices few days ago user farlokko changed many shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer worldwide. The changeset is http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 I think this change is wrong, at least for most nodes in czech republic - I know about nodes that I've added and only small part (perhaps one out of ten) of them are actually greengrocers, according to my knowledge. Most of them are ordinary grocery stores. Some of them even have no or very little selection of fruit and vegetables. The greengrocer is shop that sells fruits and vegetables (in czech language usually called Ovoce a zelenina) and no other type of food - according to what is at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dgreengrocer and what would the name suggest. The groceries (I found shop=groceries at rejected features, though it was widely used, JOSM has it in presets, etc ..) should be used for shops selling general food (not only fruit and vegetables), but that do not sell anything other than food (like shop=convenience) and are small (so shop=supermarked won't fit to them) - at least this is what I think. In czech these are called Potraviny, or Večerka if they have closing time very late in night. So the question is how to tag shops selling only food that are small? Should shop=groceries be used (and perhaps somehow added to map features or proposed features, or some other tag should be used? And should that changeset that converted shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer be reverted? Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:07 PM, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: I notices few days ago user farlokko changed many shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer worldwide. The changeset is http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 I think this change is wrong, at least for most nodes in czech republic - I know about nodes that I've added and only small part (perhaps one out of ten) of them are actually greengrocers, according to my knowledge. Most of them are ordinary grocery stores. Some of them even have no or very little selection of fruit and vegetables. The greengrocer is shop that sells fruits and vegetables (in czech language usually called Ovoce a zelenina) and no other type of food - according to what is at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dgreengrocer and what would the name suggest. The groceries (I found shop=groceries at rejected features, though it was widely used, JOSM has it in presets, etc ..) should be used for shops selling general food (not only fruit and vegetables), but that do not sell anything other than food (like shop=convenience) and are small (so shop=supermarked won't fit to them) - at least this is what I think. In czech these are called Potraviny, or Večerka if they have closing time very late in night. So the question is how to tag shops selling only food that are small? Should shop=groceries be used (and perhaps somehow added to map features or proposed features, or some other tag should be used? And should that changeset that converted shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer be reverted? I sent farlokko the following mail via the website on September 29th: Til farlokko Titill Please revert your changeset changing shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer Dagsþriðjudaginn 29. september 2009 kl. 14:15 I noticed you changed a shop I surveyed: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/305004175 shop=greengrocer is not the same thing as shop=groceries. The former sells vegetables while the latter is a general groceries store. Please revert this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 And any similar changesets where you've globally mistagged previously correct data. Thanks. He has yet to reply or revert his changes. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
I notices few days ago user farlokko changed many shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer worldwide. The changeset is http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 I think this change is wrong, at least for most nodes in czech republic - I know about nodes that I've added and only small part (perhaps one out of ten) of them are actually greengrocers, according to my knowledge. Most of them are ordinary grocery stores. Some of them even have no or very little selection of fruit and vegetables. The greengrocer is shop that sells fruits and vegetables (in czech language usually called Ovoce a zelenina) and no other type of food - according to what is at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dgreengrocer and what would the name suggest. The groceries (I found shop=groceries at rejected features, though it was widely used, JOSM has it in presets, etc ..) should be used for shops selling general food (not only fruit and vegetables), but that do not sell anything other than food (like shop=convenience) and are small (so shop=supermarked won't fit to them) - at least this is what I think. In czech these are called Potraviny, or Večerka if they have closing time very late in night. So the question is how to tag shops selling only food that are small? Should shop=groceries be used (and perhaps somehow added to map features or proposed features, or some other tag should be used? And should that changeset that converted shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer be reverted? Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
MP wrote: I notices few days ago user farlokko changed many shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer worldwide. The changeset is http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 I think this change is wrong, at least for most nodes in czech republic - I know about nodes that I've added and only small part (perhaps one out of ten) of them are actually greengrocers, according to my knowledge. Most of them are ordinary grocery stores. Some of them even have no or very little selection of fruit and vegetables. The greengrocer is shop that sells fruits and vegetables (in czech language usually called Ovoce a zelenina) and no other type of food - according to what is at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dgreengrocer and what would the name suggest. The groceries (I found shop=groceries at rejected features, though it was widely used, JOSM has it in presets, etc ..) should be used for shops selling general food (not only fruit and vegetables), but that do not sell anything other than food (like shop=convenience) and are small (so shop=supermarked won't fit to them) - at least this is what I think. In czech these are called Potraviny, or Večerka if they have closing time very late in night. So the question is how to tag shops selling only food that are small? Should shop=groceries be used (and perhaps somehow added to map features or proposed features, or some other tag should be used? And should that changeset that converted shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer be reverted? It looks as though farlokko has reverted some (maybe all) back to shop=groceries. Cheers, Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
2009/10/2 MP singular...@gmail.com: I notices few days ago user farlokko changed many shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer worldwide. The changeset is http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2562959 This has been noted on IRC, I think some reverted changes in their area, but nobody got around to reverting the whole changeset. I think this change is wrong, at least for most nodes in czech republic - I know about nodes that I've added and only small part (perhaps one out of ten) of them are actually greengrocers, according to my knowledge. Most of them are ordinary grocery stores. Some of them even have no or very little selection of fruit and vegetables. The greengrocer is shop that sells fruits and vegetables (in czech language usually called Ovoce a zelenina) and no other type of food - according to what is at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dgreengrocer and what would the name suggest. Correct The groceries (I found shop=groceries at rejected features, though it was widely used, JOSM has it in presets, etc ..) should be used for shops selling general food (not only fruit and vegetables), but that do not sell anything other than food (like shop=convenience) and are small (so shop=supermarked won't fit to them) - at least this is what I think. In czech these are called Potraviny, or Večerka if they have closing time very late in night. Again, I agree. I have no idea why groceries should be in rejected features. It seems it got sidelined there in the abandoned section in 2007. There is no reason for it to be on the rejected page, indeed, if it is widely used, why not just approve it due to precedence? If it's used, and a default in the editors, it can hardly be rejected. And what about the long standing shop=* definition? So the question is how to tag shops selling only food that are small? Should shop=groceries be used (and perhaps somehow added to map features or proposed features, or some other tag should be used? Seems reasonable. And should that changeset that converted shop=groceries into shop=greengrocer be reverted? The changeset in question broke data. It unilaterally changed the definition of ~200 shops. It should be reverted. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
Chris Hill wrote: It looks as though farlokko has reverted some (maybe all) back to shop=groceries. Not all (at least not yet): http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/160590737/history ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shop=groceries?
It looks as though farlokko has reverted some (maybe all) back to shop=groceries. Some, but not all. I reverted all greengrocers from that changeset back to groceries in Czech republic, in all cases where the shop name does not suggest it is actually a greengrocer (names like Ovoce - zelenina, etc ...) I have not touched nodes outside Czech republic (approx. half of the nodes was inside Czech. rep.) as I am not familiar with types of shops abroad. These may perhaps still need some fixing. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
