2009/12/30 Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com:
I know Bendigo has an 'alcohol free zone' which would be useful to capture.
Initial thoughts are that it is best represented as a relation, made up of
the ways (roads etc) that form the outer boundary. Just need to define a new
relation
2009/12/30 Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com:
The same thing happens here as well John.
So you are saying that specific playgrounds etc are AFZ's as well. So in
those instances they would be part of a relation (with a single object ie
the polygon representing the playground).
I think
2009/12/29 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
What about service roads? They're lined with houses, and used primarily by
people accessing those homes. Surely highway=service.
I marked a couple of ways today that is the primary access to
residential buildings as highway=track, because it was
2009/12/30 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com:
Canberra didn't have an 'administrative boundary'. Is there such a thing?
I sent out a post a week or so ago about using admin_level=7 for
metro/regional area boundaries, but yes there is a Canberra admin
boundary, but it only covers the suburb of
2009/12/30 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
That's pretty impressive stuff. One random map that came up:
http://maposmatic.org/rendered//004922_2009-12-28_08-34_GrenobleIsreRhneAlpesFrance.png
I used to live right on the eastern edge of that map. Can't help but wonder
if Australian cities
2009/12/28 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au:
From a user's point of view, I would expect to see major roads one colour,
secondary roads another colour. I wouldn't expect to see a different colour
just because a road goes past factories instead of homes. Do unclassified
and residential both
I thought I had miniature railways rendering but it seems I had a
small problem with the SQL in the mapnik config on btc server, but I
have miniature railways rendering again now:
http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=17ll=-28.852,153.050layer=B0TT
2 down
2009/12/27 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
Although the bbox does allow a few locations in from south eastern
asia, but then you can load the file into JOSM and run searches on it,
but it doesn't seem easy to search on the version number of an object,
not sure why but I've filed a bug
2009/12/29 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
That depends what you mean by service road. Following the scheme
given by 1) and 2) above: If it's named/public, highway=residential.
Otherwise, highway=service.
I generally tag lane ways as highway=service, as that's what they
generally are,
2009/12/29 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
What about service roads? They're lined with houses, and used primarily by
people accessing those homes. Surely highway=service.
Ask 10 people and you'd probably get 10 different answers...
Also, what about weird dinky little strets you sometimes
2009/12/29 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
1) if it is a named/public road:
* residential if lined primarily with people's homes and used
primarily by people accessing those homes
* unclassified otherwise
In Australia unclassified usually only applies to rural roads, at
least that's what
Mapped out another miniature railway today in Casino NSW and it looks
like I forgot to make a request for enhancement after I mapped the
last one so I filed a bug for this one:
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2577
It may not really be much of an issue that the track doesn't render
except
2009/12/27 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
Can anyone program a bot to pick up these rest areas and mark those without a
subsequent change (ie new author) as not reviewed??
It's easy to pull data from one of the XAPI servers, eg to get all
fuel locations for Australia you do this:
wget
2009/12/27 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
It would still be nice to have a tool to do it automatically or some way to
scale the circle size.
What annoys me about the circle tool in JOSM is the fact it doesn't
really make nice looking roundabouts, and more often than not I end up
merging half
2009/12/28 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Matija Nalis mnalis-openstreetmap-osmfl...@voyager.hr
To: Matt Amos m...@asklater.com
I would actually expect OSMF membership to be *more* interested in the
license change issues than the average OSM contributor;
This has been a niggling problem for a number of people including
myself for some time now, while it was possible to due this on the fly
that method doesn't really scale so I've had to come up with an
alternative plan of action and I've been discussing this with a couple
others on and off for the
I'm aware of the site listing all the highways in Australia, but does
anyone know of a site or sites that list some or all of the tourism
routes in Australia?
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2009/12/28 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Custom_Highway_Shields
I've now listed the default highway shields for Australia but there
may be some ones in other states they may need to be listed different
if the shield design differs from NSW/Qld
2009/12/26 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Hear, hear. Would be good in potlatch too.
You don't need my permission to file a bug :P
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2009/12/26 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
You don't need my permission to file a bug :P
Please stop being an asshole. Your way of expressing yourself on these lists
is extremely unpleasant. For almost every post that anyone makes, you make
this snide, arrogant, completely uncalled for
2009/12/26 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au:
If you do this, just add a note/fixme that the information you add
isn't accurately surveyed, otherwise they may assume it has been.
How do I do this in Potlatch?
You can add a new tag manually, there is/was a plus icon to the right
hand side of
Sorry for bringing up this thread, but just a sort of follow up.
The BT-757 is a very excellent GPS unit, has very good accuracy, when
compared to other traces and where the roads are current mapped, and I
would very quickly recommend this unit to everyone. As pointed out in
previous emails, the
2009/12/27 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
John Smith wrote:
Your post was completely useless, why didn't you just post a bug
instead of trying to make other people do it?
Because some of us are yet to build the confidence for such action?
This should be incentive to figure out how, it's
2009/12/27 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
Richard Colless wrote:
I was trying out the latest routable OSM maps, and came across a couple
of odd items. One was a roundabout where the Etrex told me to go round
it in the wrong direction - anti-clockwise. It's the only one that gave
me the wrong
2009/12/27 James Andrewartha tr...@student.uwa.edu.au:
2009/12/27 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
2009/12/27 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
John Smith wrote:
Your post was completely useless, why didn't you just post a bug
instead of trying to make other people do it?
Because some
2009/12/27 James Andrewartha tr...@student.uwa.edu.au:
than Ubuntu at fixing bugs, the equation still holds:
http://glyphobet.net/blog/blurb/1214
I should have seen this before replying, I agree 100%, I don't use
potlatch so the cost v benefit for me is too high.
2009/12/25 ed...@billiau.net:
emergency_service=ses
That's fine, but wouldn't that mean police/fire amenity=* (and no
mention of ambulance on the wiki) should shift to that instead of
being amenity=* ?
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2009/12/25 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:08 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
wrote:
How are people tagging these, they aren't like other emergency
services and you can't contact them by dialing 000 for that matter.
On the wiki it is proposed
2009/12/26 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Hmm, speaking from experience of a ride today, I'd actually prefer less
detail, but maybe that's a question for the renderer. Trying to follow a
bike path that runs beside, then crosses over, a set of train tracks is
really tough - all the lines
2009/12/26 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
If all you cared about was cycling information, why didn't you use
OpenCycleMap tiles?
Shut up.
And merry christmas,
Steve.
This is why you should put as much information into the database as
possible, you may not care about railway lines, but
2009/12/26 James Andrewartha tr...@student.uwa.edu.au:
Speaking of Transperth, anyone want to hazard a guess as what the
license on
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TimetablesMaps/SpatialDataAccess/tabid/254/Default.aspx
means? I suspect non-exclusive, limited and revocable rights to use,
2009/12/26 cam_...@fastmail.fm:
On Fri, 2009-12-25 at 21:08 +1000, John Smith wrote:
How are people tagging these, they aren't like other emergency
services and you can't contact them by dialing 000 for that matter.
Nothing came up in searching for SES/State Emergency Services... Well
apart
2009/12/26 ed...@billiau.net:
At the time I must have got emergency_service from somewhere
where else is it used?
I'm happy to change when we decide
I'm just pointing out it goes against other emergency services,
although they should probably be grouped together properly instead of
lumped in
2009/12/26 ed...@billiau.net:
If we list more than ourselves then we do appear to be more co-operative,
and could save other people reinventing the wheel, a very popular OSM
activity
Also I don't think it's a uniquely Australian thing to have a lot of
different emergency services :)
I ended up filing a bug about this:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/4236
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While adding postcodes it looks like some people have incorrectly
joined boundaries together, to make a single way for a stream/road
etc, this has broken suburb boundaries in various areas.
I emailed Franc the other day for a copy of osm files converted from
the original shape file, but in the
Doesn't anyone disagree with using admin_level=7 to cover things like
metro/regional boundaries, this could include things like the limit of
cities, eg metro areas of Sydney/Melbourne, not just the suburbs of
Sydney/Melbourne?
It could also cover regions like the Sunshine Coast in Qld, the
2009/12/22 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
Draw another way beside it or something but make sure you don't accidently
delete them.
When making postcode boundaries I'm starting to really agree with you,
people using roads especially make a complete mess of things at times
and you can't easily
2009/12/23 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
After that it might be wise to figure out some strategy to monitor
changes to admin boundaries to limit the effect of mistakes in future.
Easy fix.
Don't join other ways to
2009/12/21 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
1) Obviously, use what's already documented/in use where possible -
e.g. atm=yes is established, so use it instead of amenity:atm=yes
See below...
2) If it can only reasonably be interpreted as an amenity, I don't
think you need to use an
I thought about making a proper proposal page, but it seems like a
combination of many proposals, so I just made a non-proposal page,
outlining how BPs were tagged:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Australia_Service_Stations
I also added additional features listed on the Matila
Actually after thinking about it some more, unless there is some
issues about choices of tags to tag these govt locations there is no
point not uploading the data.
I've just uploaded all 321 Centrelink locations now.
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I've uploaded 989 POIs from this data set to OSM.
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328 police POIs have just been uploaded.
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I've just update a matilda location with information from their
website (types of fuel sold etc).
Any way, they list services on their station locations like hot food,
groceries, dry cleaning etc:
http://www.matildafuel.com.au/stationfeatures.asp
This is on top of the amenity:*=* tags I used
2009/12/20 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Like I said before, I think making a wiki page and posting these
observations there would be more helpful in the long run than simply sending
them off into the ether that is this mailing list. The heads up is great,
but nothing much is going to
2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Not sure if you have a pathological hatred towards making wiki pages, or how
you end up thinking it's less work to send so many messages to this list
rather than creating onebut whatever.
Don't you know programmers have a dislike of writing
2009/12/21 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
Specifically, though, I'm wondering why use amenity:atm=yes rather
than atm=yes? Is there ever some atm that isn't an amenity?
It's for when there are several amenities
2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
But all I was suggesting was you dump the same text that you were sending to
the email to the wiki instead. That's not dislike of writing documentation,
that's wikiphobia.
Perhaps you should see how much I've updated the wiki before you start
2009/12/21 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au:
According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:atm you should add
an individual node for an ATM, rather than tag it onto an existing node
(ie. bank, servo or chemist).
Assuming you have accurate information for the location, in the case
of
2009/12/21 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009, David Murn wrote:
According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:atm you should add
an individual node for an ATM, rather than tag it onto an existing node
(ie. bank, servo or chemist).
for any reference you can find in the wiki, we
2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Answer: David, you continue to create new nodes for atms, John, stack all
the atm information etc on the same node, until someone surveys it.
Wasn't planning to do any different, it's hard enough to pin point the
location of a lot/most BPs from
2009/12/21 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
And on a slightly different issue, what source=* values are you
planning on? For example, will source:atm=* be set also? It would be
bad for someone to remove the fixme=not_reviewed without reviewing
ALL details imported, including, for example,
2009/12/21 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
I would still suggest atm=yes. The amenity: is redundant.
And the other amenity:*=* tags?
node id='585129906' timestamp='2009-12-10T11:54:04Z' uid='74617'
user='JohnSmith' visible='true' version='1' changeset='3340910'
lat='-21.120399'
2009/12/21 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com:
may have a long wait. I suspect some sort of time tagging would be
appropriate (eg Tuesdays, 10:00-12:30)
opening_hours=Tu 10:00-12:30
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2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
information=guidepost?
mobile_library_stop=Tu 10:00-12:30 ?
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2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Not sure what's going on there. When I click on the osmfuel.org it does
that.
They probably don't have virtual hostnames configured properly, you
need www in front.
Oh, as opposed to amenity=atm?
I thought we were talking about amenity:atm=yes v
2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:52 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
information=guidepost?
mobile_library_stop=Tu 10:00-12:30 ?
That's extremely specific. The chance of any renderer ever
You say potato etc...
I think you guys are can't see the forest for the trees.
If you don't know the name or proper official name of a place name
what you can and add a fixme or note saying you are unsure, what's so
difficult about that?
Also it might be a bowls club, but that generally isn't
2009/12/19 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
And I'm wondering why we're limited to two.
It's default assumption, we're not limited to two, we just don't need
to be explicit about it.
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2009/12/19 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, Liz wrote:
off to the wiki this big decision goes
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Sports_Grounds
just underneath
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Licensed_Club
no-one has
2009/12/19 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, Roy Wallace wrote:
It just isn't
the actual name of the thing, so I'd prefer to use a more accurate tag.
We agree! Use leisure=pitch + sport=bowls. This is off-topic, let's move
on.
something so important needs to be documented
off
2009/12/19 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, you wrote:
I was at a bowls club tonight, it had a sticker on the door: This is a
member of registered clubs NSW
in nsw they are legally 'registered clubs
i hope you got the name of the club :)
Ages ago, was an xmas thing...
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
I was thinking of just a list of URLs and descriptions: police stations
come from ..., status: ...
We'd be better importing the data ourself and telling people to update
than do this. People have made similar batches of data available and
people
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
You and I just don't seem to understand each other. Let me spell it out:
How can you mistaken things when I said in other emails I didn't
intend to upload the data beacuse I hadn't lived in those states, or
not for some years.
1) You import/upload
2009/12/20 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:45 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
wrote:
Well you can see all sources of available government data on the .au
gov's website:
http://data.australia.gov.au
Yeah but if we have our own list, it becomes
2009/12/18 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
Likewise it's not necessary to have multiple nodes on a straight section of
road (unless it's really long). As an example I just came across one
straight road that was 150m long. It had 6 nodes on it where it could have
been drawn with three. One
2009/12/18 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
In that case, the voting means nothing at all? Weird.
It's a left over practise from a time it would have been more
appropriate/useful, but since the number of users have increased by
several orders of magnitude it has become a much less efficient
2009/12/18 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
I'm guilty of this sometimes. One reason for me comes from the method of
tracing: zoom in, mark points along the longest straight stretch you can
see, then pan the map, repeat, etc. If you're very zoomed in, you can't tell
that the road will be
2009/12/18 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Yeah but then if there are curvy bits – which I want to be maximally zoomed
in for – that doesn't work. Personally I'm not seeing a lot of harm in
excess nodes. Of all the things you could do wrong, it ranks pretty low in
harm.
You're right, there
There is also Vic police locations as part of the
data.australia.gov.au release, it's under cc-by:
http://data.australia.gov.au/406
Even has lat/lon, but isn't listed under the geography section...
Makes me wonder if there are other similar datasets that aren't listed
under geography but have
I just took a look at a few in JOSM and they must have used some other
datum, if anyone call tell me which one and/or how to convert to WGS84
I'll update the osm file.
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Or just another case of bad geocoding...
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I've been looking over the data.australia.gov.au site some more, so
far there is a kml file for vic hospitals, as a result most of the
useful information is in html type formating and seems to include a
lot of disclaimers about the information being best effort/use at own
risk...
I should have included a direct link to the page:
http://data.australia.gov.au/404
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Another document with lat/lon data, but this one will need to be dealt
with manually, contains locations and types of projects money is being
spent on, seems to be useful for extracting school and park locations,
and locations of rail way crossings/bridges that are being upgraded,
among other
Yet another document with lat/lon that wasn't in the Geography category:
http://data.australia.gov.au/80
I've converted this to an osm file:
http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/centrelink.osm.bz2
Wasn't sure how to tag these so came up with the following:
node id='-1' action='create'
Department of Planning and Infrastructure (NT) has a bunch of data
uploaded to data.australia.gov.au which includes lat/lon:
http://data.australia.gov.au/76
This spread sheet includes schools, parks, fire/ambulence stations,
libraries, museums and aboriginal communities.
Majority of the data is
2009/12/19 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org:
For changing roads, I think the future of changesets will allow us to revert
changes as well as have a way to retrieve historical data. I guess that a
future API version will allow you to see how the world looked in 2009, so
that non-existing roads
2009/12/19 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 1:03 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
... seems to include a
lot of disclaimers about the information being best effort/use at own
risk...
Probably just covering their back - because people looking
2009/12/19 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, John Smith wrote:
I should have included a direct link to the page:
http://data.australia.gov.au/404
There are other interesting ones
South Australian Boat Ramp Locations
http://data.australia.gov.au/99
Yea, the boat ramps and boating
2009/12/19 Evan Sebire e...@sebire.org:
Why wouldn't the address be entered using the Karlsruhe system?
I did it this way because I think we should be verifying the
information, not just entering it. Although if people think it should
be dealt with differently I'm happy to update the uploaded
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Yeah, good work. Should the name be Bairnsdale Centrelink or just
Centrelink?
Generally places like this are in context when you are there but on
maps the context is lost a little so I think it's best to have the
suburb as part of the name.
2009/12/19 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
Steve Bennett wrote:
Yeah, good work. Should the name be Bairnsdale Centrelink or just
Centrelink?
I'm all for putting town/suburb names in as well. One place where it
matters is looking up POIs on GPS units.
+1
The BP locations, imported the
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
IMHO, the tag name is really not enough. I've often wanted at least three
tags:
1) The genuine most official name of the place - in this case, Bairnsdale
Centrelink
Should I switch the order on the names from 'Centrelink Bairnsdale' to
'Bairnsdale
2009/12/19 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
But isn't this a problem with the user i.e. the GPS unit software?
I.e. shouldn't the suburb be retrieved from an admin boundary if
required? IMHO the name=* value should be the name. If it's actually
called Bairnsdale Centrelink then fine, but I
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Good stuff. Worth making a wiki page to collect all this information.
Volunteering? :)
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2009/12/19 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net:
Operating mines had lat and long
Mineral processing plants didn't
any of these things should be big enough to see on satellite imagery with a
rough idea of where to start looking
Hmmm I must have missed that dataset...
2009/12/19 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
The first is easy, is quick to implement and brings the roundabouts into line
with the wiki, the second may take some time.
As I stated some time ago it might be good to document this on the
wiki as to how not to do a roundabout, I wasn't aware and
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Yes. Although if we're trying to make our map data work with routers we
can't fix (eg, Garmin), then we're in an interesting situation.
Depends how much control the preprocessing software has over garmin
devices, I don't have a garmin so I can't
2009/12/19 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
This is subjective and, as I said, depends on what we are mapping.
E.g. IF we are mapping the centrelines of paths of travel in terms
of geographic location, clearly _messy is more accurate/complete. But
that's a big IF. I'm not saying _messy is
I think I've finally finished NSW, ACT and the NT... 3 down 5 to go...
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2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Good stuff. Worth making a wiki page to collect all this information.
Volunteering? :)
If you really want, email me
2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
The right solution would probably include a way to automatically subdivide a
road into lanes, but seamlessly allow individually mapped lanes where
appropriate.
That's the general idea, the implementation is the sticking point :)
2009/12/19 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
Which is what the lanes_group relation would do as the relation is attached
to the way.
As I said, it'd be nice to cascade the tags from ways to lanes, but it
seems at this point in time some sort of relation hack is the only
feasible solution unless
I'm starting to get really frustrated with the general level of apathy
with the local chapters working group.
I emailed the OSM-F board some time ago to ask permission to use
OpenStreetMaps as part of the official name of a local entity that we
would most likely become a local chapter in future.
2009/12/17 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
2009/12/17 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
If they are drawn as in the third example in the wiki then it's not a
problem.
It becomes a problem when you join an entry and exit flare to the one node,
which is incorrect anyway
2009/12/17 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com:
I don't understand all those ambigious terms - an agreement your
problem etc. Are they saying an agreement form/contract does not yet
exist and that is why they will not give permission?
They are currently trying to come up with local
2009/12/17 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com:
I'd just go ahead and use it. So long as the intent is that we are promoting
osm I can not see it becoming a problem.
I'm just frustrated by the apathy...
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2009/12/17 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com:
OpenStreetMap has a lot of name recognition and I'd much rather say
I'm a member of OpenStreetMap Australia/Oceania than the Open
Cartography Society, the representative/local/supporting organisation
of OpenStreetMap in Australia. But as
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