Just came across this:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.651744lon=115.86618zoom=18
There is no way in the world that this is a mini roundabout.
Here is the nearmap imagery for it, I know it can't be used now for osm
but using it here for reference:
I looked into it for the sake of doing something! The trace of the secondary
road was from a GPS trace and I assume that because the GPS data didn't cover
the roundabout, the editor simply tagged it as a mini roundabout instead of
making a small circle. Maybe a private message to the user in
It's hard to do a large roundabout like that from gps data as you would
have to drive down all the paths to get the traces. I would mark it as a
mini roundabout too and let someone who cares more go and do the actual
traces to draw it properly.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Ross Scanlon
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:46 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
While I agree that its useful to represent curves and bends properly in
the traffic flow, this seems a bit excessive. Youre going from having 9
roundabouts with 36 nodes, to having 9 roundabouts using 162 nodes, for
no
On 02/05/10 22:37, Steve Bennett wrote:
It's not just rendering - it also affects how it appears on a GPS.
Presumably more accurate circles mean more accurate distance
calculations, too. These aren't terribly important considerations, but
worth bearing in mind the next time we're having a but
On Sun, 2010-05-02 at 22:37 +1000, Steve Bennett wrote:
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:46 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
While I agree that its useful to represent curves and bends properly in
the traffic flow, this seems a bit excessive. Youre going from having 9
roundabouts
On 2 May 2010 23:44, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
Where is there discussion about the 'harmful' effect of tagging each
entry/exit way? Ive had a quick look but only came across that comment.
What that means is entrance or exits from different parts of the
intersection shouldn't
On 2 May 2010 23:44, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
Where is there discussion about the 'harmful' effect of tagging each
entry/exit way? Ive had a quick look but only came across that comment.
What that means is entrance or exits from different parts of the
intersection
On Sun, 2 May 2010, David Murn wrote:
Aussie tagging guidelines say (and Ive checked, no wikifiddling of this
part for over 12 months):
even this had to be restored back then
somebody decided that we shouldn't have any Australian notes on roundabouts
and removed the paragraph, put in a link
On 03/05/10 07:03, Liz wrote:
There are some places where splitter islands have been drawn in.
If they are drawn from gps in a big city the island size is less than the
accuracy of the trace - so it is supposition.
Drawn from decent aerial photography, like we have now they could be accurate.
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
even this had to be restored back then
somebody decided that we shouldn't have any Australian notes on roundabouts
and removed the paragraph, put in a link to the main roundabouts page instead
and marked it up with stop balkanisation
On 3 May 2010 08:25, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Unless you live on one of those islands (as I do) and you want OSM maps
You live on the island in the middle of a roundabout?
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On 03/05/10 14:09, John Smith wrote:
On 3 May 2010 08:25, John Hendersonsnow...@gmx.com wrote:
Unless you live on one of those islands (as I do) and you want OSM maps
You live on the island in the middle of a roundabout?
No. I live in a shoebox in the middle of the road :)
John H
This roundabout seems decorative to me
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-35.921013,145.647941z=21t=knmd=20100122
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On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
This is definitely not a mini_roundabout even if we had such in Australia
which has previously been agreed we don't have them.
Could I suggest that if any decisions are taken on stuff like this,
the decision should be
not really... it forces people to swing wide when making a right hand
turn... assuming this is a good thing to do...
jim
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:23 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
This roundabout seems decorative to me
John Smith wrote:
This roundabout seems decorative to me
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-35.921013,145.647941z=21t=knmd=20100122
It's obviously designed to co-ordinate with the herringbone pattern in
the adjacent parking lot. :-)
Richard
Could I suggest that if any decisions are taken on stuff like this,
the decision should be documented on the wiki. Otherwise it doesn't
really exist, and will just be rehashed indefinitely on the mailing
list.
Read the wiki.
Roundabouts should be drawn in full.
It was put this way to be
On 29 April 2010 22:59, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Read the wiki.
Roundabouts should be drawn in full.
Which is merely the opinion(s) of one or more people that wrote it,
there seems to be 3 opinions on tiny roundabouts, they should be
mapped in full, mini roundabout tagging is
If your sitting there tracing details from nearmap why not get it right
first off there's no time limit, this is not a race, the data is more
important than mappers convienience.
That is only one opinion, in my opinion this is tagging things wrong
because it doesn't render properly on
On 29 April 2010 23:56, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
It will render correctly on mapnik if you set up mapnik to do so.
No, the smaller the roundabout the more non-roundabout it will look,
so it won't render correctly.
What your proposing is tagging for the renderer, what I'm saying
FWIW, here's how I see it
1) A mini-roundabout is a round marking, whether painted or slightly
raised, in the middle of an intersection that can legitimately be
driven over in a normal car.
While I tend to agree with this it's not what was my original issue.
The following two links are
On 30 April 2010 01:13, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
While I tend to agree with this it's not what was my original issue.
And I agree with you that 99.9% of roundabouts tagged as mini are
wrong, it's the 0.1% that's in question.
You'll also find it's Offence Provison under the road
On 30/04/10 01:34, John Smith wrote:
They usually paint the outer edge solid white, and the offense is when
you cross an unbroken solid white line, or so I've been told in
respect to NSW road rules, although the states have supposed to
harmonise their road rules by now.
Crossing unbroken
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, Steve Bennett wrote:
I don't know about everyone else, but I see the tagging there as a
pretty normal shortcut. I've done the same thing myself. New housing
developments often contain dozens of roundabouts. Better to tag them
as mini_roundabout than not to tag them at all.
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Hi All,
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted but...
I've been having a look at tagwatch and have noticed a massive increase in
the number of mini roundabouts, in the past couple of months.
Mind you I've
1) They're clearly mini roundabouts. I go straight over them on my bike.
They are concrete circles from Nearmap as far as I can tell.
2) The roads you've mapped out don't even follow the aerial photos -
they cut across people's front lawns.
Must have missed resizing these lot done now and I
From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com
1) They're clearly mini roundabouts. I go straight over them on my bike.
You're not supposed to go over a roundabout, unless your vehicle's lack of
turning ability necessitates it! :-)
2) The roads you've mapped out don't even follow the aerial photos
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 04:49:11 +0800, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, Steve Bennett wrote:
I don't know about everyone else, but I see the tagging there as a
pretty normal shortcut. I've done the same thing myself. New housing
developments often contain dozens of roundabouts.
On 30 April 2010 10:47, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
An octagon is the smallest number of nodes to accurately describe a circle.
And they have been tidied using JOSM's circle function.
According to the wiki a square is good enough although if a
roundabout only has 3 exits I guess a
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
1) They're clearly mini roundabouts. I go straight over them on my bike.
They are concrete circles from Nearmap as far as I can tell.
Andrew wrote:
However, once you add an
island and kerbing, they become a full
On 30/04/10 13:55, Steve Bennett wrote:
Not sure what the technical definition of island or concrete
circle is. These particular examples are ever so slightly raised
(perhaps 15cm) and have a slight kerb.
Then they're roundabouts, as defined in the Aust Road Rules.
If we want to define a
On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 10:47 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote:
1) They're clearly mini roundabouts. I go straight over them on my bike.
They are concrete circles from Nearmap as far as I can tell.
3) Why an octagon shape? Ugh. At least use the tidy function in JOSM
or Potlatch to make them
I just had a quick look and noticed that too. In the small area linked,
I counted 9 roundabouts. Turning them into a circle, has given them 18
nodes each. Given that each round-about has 4 entry/exit points, this
means for a diamond shape, youre using no extra nodes, for an octagon
youre
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Richard Colless wrote:
Liz wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Ben Kelley wrote:
This is currently a real roundabout in OSM, but local knowledge tells me
that it is impossible to go around more than about 90 degrees
270 degrees
at this
intersection. That is, from any
More tiny roundabouts...
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-36.784522,144.34539z=21t=hnmd=20100130
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-36.781026,144.34619z=22t=hnmd=20100130
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On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote:
More tiny roundabouts...
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-36.784522,144.34539z=21t=hnmd=20100130
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-36.781026,144.34619z=22t=hnmd=20100130
JS can you give me leads on the local Council and I'll see what I can find out
from meeting
Liz wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Ben Kelley wrote:
This is currently a real roundabout in OSM, but local knowledge tells me
that it is impossible to go around more than about 90 degrees
270 degrees
at this
intersection. That is, from any approach, you can turn
On 26 April 2010 15:25, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Nevertheless, I like my work to be as accurate as I can make it with a
reasonable expenditure of effort.
That's my point as well, trying to map small roundabouts in a similar
fashion to larger ones makes them indistinguishable from a
On 27/04/10 07:47, John Kitchener wrote:
For me, the single most relevant issue is how does a ‘mini roundabout’
display with Garmin turn by voice routing?
From memory (I haven’t played with it recently), a ‘mini roundabout’
works in Garmin as a standard cross street. This is quite confusing
John Kitchener wrote:
For
me, the single most relevant issue is how does a mini roundabout
display
with Garmin turn by voice routing?
From
memory (I havent played with it recently), a mini roundabout
works in Garmin as a standard cross street. This is quite confusing
because it is there?
and it you drive straight ahead and through rather than around it
things could get ugly?
jim
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote:
If a mini-roundabout conveys no useful information, why waste time putting
it on the map?
--
So draw it out in full, that way the routing and map renderers can do whatever
they like with the information.
Cheers
Ross
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 09:25:33 +1000
Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote:
because it is there?
and it you drive straight ahead and through rather than around it
things
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the crux of this
argument really comes down to people complaining because Garmin's
don't do something meaningful with the information, and I'm guessing
those that don't care either way or think mini roundabouts are valid
don't have a Garmin.
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the crux of this
argument really comes down to people complaining because Garmin's
don't do something meaningful with the information, and I'm guessing
those that don't care either way or think mini
On 27 April 2010 10:53, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
They are very rare, and perhaps we should draw them out as roundabouts anyway.
I think most people agree most mini-roundabouts are incorrectly
tagged, as for the ones that may be deemed mini, that's where the
secondary arguments of both sides
On 27 April 2010 10:53, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
Some whisper that they have seen a painted roundabout on the road, but whether
this is a roundabout is not for us to know - according to the Road Rulez it
ain't a roundabout.
and
They are very rare, and perhaps we should draw them out as
Hi.
Although I know this issue has probably been done to death, I wonder if it
is true that there is any difference from a routing point of view between a
roundabout and a mini roundabout.
Consider this one:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-33.891579,151.134924z=21t=knmd=20100316
This is currently
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Ben Kelley wrote:
This is currently a real roundabout in OSM, but local knowledge tells me
that it is impossible to go around more than about 90 degrees
270 degrees
at this
intersection. That is, from any approach, you can turn left or right.
For most vehicles, the
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Ben Kelley wrote:
Hi.
Although I know this issue has probably been done to death, I wonder if it
is true that there is any difference from a routing point of view between a
roundabout and a mini roundabout.
Is that a significant difference though? You could easily
http://www.billiau.net/osm/roundabouts.pdf
is what I researched last time
in the last paragraphs no, my Garmin does not respect a roundabout-on-a-node,
I was mistaken
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John Smith wrote:
On 25 April 2010 00:33, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
This is definitely not a mini_roundabout even if we had such in Australia which has previously been agreed we don't have them.
I wasn't in on that discussion. If we don't have them in
On 25 April 2010 16:37, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote:
I wasn't in on that discussion. If we don't have them in Australia, then
what are they? I always thought they were those piddling little things where
councils were too stingy to do anything more than paint a circle on the
road.
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Richard Colless wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 25 April 2010 00:33, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
This is definitely not a mini_roundabout even if we had such in Australia
which has previously been agreed we don't have them.
I wasn't in on that discussion. If
On 25/04/10 16:56, Liz wrote:
we don't have [mini roundabouts] legally
they don't exist in the australian road rules
and some mappers claim to have seen them
but i haven't seen one yet
Having just done a bit of research, I agree. The Aust Road Rules define
a roundabout:
A roundabout is an
On 25 April 2010 18:18, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Having just done a bit of research, I agree.
Here we go again... As I said before we all ended up agreeing to disagree...
traffic island means a structure on a road to direct traffic, but does
not include a road marking or painted
On 26 April 2010 11:02, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
I had thought of choker but my understanding of choker was the reverse of an
island in the center, where the islands are at the sides of the road and
narrows the road to one lane in the center.
Chicanes are also becoming a
On 25 April 2010 18:18, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Having just done a bit of research, I agree. The Aust Road Rules define
a roundabout:
A roundabout is an intersection:
(a) with either:
(i) one or more marked lanes, all of which are for the
use of vehicles travelling in the
On 26/04/10 13:13, Stephen Hope wrote:
Good. So now you've proved that a painted circle on the round is not
a roundabout in Australia. We agree on that.
The question is, what is it? I say it's a mini-roundabout - that's
pretty much the definition of what one is. Just because the
On 26/04/10 14:58, John Smith wrote:
We're making maps, maps aren't a 1:1 representation of the world.
Nevertheless, I like my work to be as accurate as I can make it with a
reasonable expenditure of effort.
John H
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Hi All,
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted but...
I've been having a look at tagwatch and have noticed a massive increase in the
number of mini roundabouts, in the past couple of months.
Mind you I've replaced about 800 of them over the last week or too.
Any way one example is
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:33:25 +0800, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com
wrote:
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted but...
:)
Also I've found mini_roundabouts for this:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.67619,153.16911z=20t=k
I'd suggest this should be traffic_calming=island
Yes,
I've also notice mini_roundabouts being used for this:
While this is obviously not ideal, it is imho better than not marking
a roundabout at all, at least if they are marked incorrectly you can
see them at a glance and fix them up.
But why mark it incorrectly in the first place?
There
On 25/04/10 00:33, Ross Scanlon wrote:
Hi All,
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted but...
I've been having a look at tagwatch and have noticed a massive increase in
the number of mini roundabouts, in the past couple of months.
A useful and timely reminder Ross.
Mind you I've
On 25 April 2010 01:15, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
But why mark it incorrectly in the first place?
a) People are lazy
b) Person mapping forgot it was a round about and not a normal
intersection when they map from GPS traces
c) I'm sure I thought up a third reason at some point.
On 25 April 2010 07:31, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
I know of one turning circle (with island) which is a true roundabout
according to the roadside signage on the entry:
Are councils just being stingy when that happens because they bulk
order one set of signs and then miss apply them?
On 25/04/10 10:25, John Smith wrote:
On 25 April 2010 07:31, John Hendersonsnow...@gmx.com wrote:
I know of one turning circle (with island) which is a true roundabout
according to the roadside signage on the entry:
Are councils just being stingy when that happens because they bulk
order
On 25 April 2010 11:06, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
Alas, evidence says that's increasingly the case. Moreover, there's a
lot of outsourcing to private contractors going on where the contractors
either aren't told exactly what to do and guess, or just take the
easiest way out
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote:
But why mark it incorrectly in the first place?
a) People are lazy
b) Person mapping forgot it was a round about and not a normal
intersection when they map from GPS traces
c) I'm sure I thought up a third reason at some point.
c) it's a preset in
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:10:31 +1000
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
To me a proper roundabout has 3 or more entrances/exits, otherwise
it's just a traffic calming device, at the end of a road it's a
turning circle...
Exactly.
The other items I've been noticing in tagwatch are:
Go
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Ross Scanlon wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:10:31 +1000
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
To me a proper roundabout has 3 or more entrances/exits, otherwise
it's just a traffic calming device, at the end of a road it's a
turning circle...
Exactly.
The
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