Am 10.02.2011 19:50, schrieb Michael von Glasow:
What I
am certain of is that OSM can represent public transport routes,
possibly with some concessions on precision (such as not handling some
route variants).
Yes and no. That is, to some extent: in cities perhaps all the main
lines, but not
On 02/02/2011 02:42 PM, Jo wrote:
Is it possible to add a way to a relation twice with Potlatch?
Out of 80 lines I manage, I have such a situation once (not a way, but
a bus stop, actually). Is it an issue in your area?
LMB
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On 01/27/2011 07:20 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
On 01/26/2011 08:40 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
The bus service number 10 in Wintherthur is the most simple case you can
have. Absolutely no exceptions. See timetables of the two terminal
stations:
So there is yet another line 10 mixed
On 01/27/2011 06:56 PM, ant wrote:
Hi,
On 27.01.2011 10:49, Richard Mann wrote:
Thanks, Richard.
I think we've got three broad decisions:
1) Whether the use of stop area / group relations should be
a) widespread
b) exceptional
b
b, ideally with a definition to what cases those
On 01/28/2011 02:45 PM, Jo wrote:
Yes that's one option. I'm a bit reluctant to put in separate
relations for each direction unless someone actually gives me a
compelling reason to do so. I already have some ways with more than 20
relations, and I don't really want to double that
Am 25.01.2011 13:52, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/25/2011 12:01 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
So far, so good. Let's then take a tram line, I selected a *random* stop
in the centre of Zürich, and *randomly* took tram line 10. Here's the
list of routes and their conditions
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Am 24.01.2011 10:39, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/24/2011 10:10 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
As far as I understand the issue, stop areas are used to tie different
stops into one transferring area.
No, you did not understand correct. stop_area_group is (was?) for that.
Then what
On 01/24/2011 12:40 PM, Christian wrote:
On 23.01.2011 13:18, Michał Borsuk wrote:
No, this can't be done in such detail, but it's not necessary as of
2011. All you need to know is where is the bus stop for the direction
you're interested in, or whether the bus stop you found serves you
On 01/24/2011 02:09 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Christianchrist...@balticfinance.com wrote:
but it also includes people ... who would like to map also
physical path a bus takes on the street.
I think there's a logic in encouraging the use of ordered relations to
On 01/24/2011 03:04 PM, Oleksandr Vlasov wrote:
Michał Borsukmichal.borsukat gmail.com writes:
Just a small set of questions:
1. As I can see, currently stop-on-a-way is the preferred approach for mapping
tram stops. Do you propose to map tram stops like bus ones, i.e. beside the way?
I'd
On 01/24/2011 10:16 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
On 01/22/2011 08:38 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/22/2011 09:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
The more exact the OSM map is, the
more likely it is that the two directions do not share the same way for
the both directions (the lines
On 01/25/2011 12:19 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/24/2011 11:38 PM, Christian Krützfeldt wrote:
If disagree then please attack my arguments with
counter-arguments. I stand by what I wrote.
Well, I could agree with you that your proposal is fine for most usage
cases. But below you say
On 01/24/2011 11:22 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
By the way, I have removed stop_area_group from the proposal.
In essence this is good. I tried to implement this concept in OSM, but
could not find (come up with) a sensible standard.
Then what is the exact difference between
On 01/24/2011 11:06 AM, Frankie Roberto wrote:
[...] I don't think you'd consider Embankment and
Charing Cross stations to be part of the same stop area, even though
they're very close to each other? On the other hand, some stop areas
(Waterloo perhaps) may be huge, even though it may take you
On 01/22/2011 10:00 PM, Vincent Privat wrote:
2011/1/22 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
mailto:michal.bor...@gmail.com
In urban regions it is common that a bus line has different
routes for
the both directions (often one way).
This doesn't matter as OSM
Hello.
A few words how data is stored in routing software stores data and
works: both HAFAS (specs not officially published) and GOOGLE TRANSIT
(http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html)
store *not* actual bus, tram, etc. lines, but each departure from the
terminus
On 01/22/2011 11:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
IMHO not related to the proposal:
- potlatch can not handle the proposal/nested relations correctly:
The latest version of Potlatch (Potlatch 2) handles nested relations
excellently. About 10 seconds' research
Continuing on How routing software works (and why OSM as-is is not
ready for routing):
Coming back to the mapping of bus lines in OSM: you can see now that
what is presented to the user, as in the example before (the PDF
http://tisseo.fr/sites/default/files/Tisseo_hiv16web.pdf), is a
Compatibility of the proposal:
#Relations:
* with two relations per line: merging relations is necessary
* with one relation per line: 100% compatibility; if the existing lines
contain roles, they would be ignored
#Bus stops:
* with bus stops: 100% compatibility with existing bus stops
On 01/22/2011 09:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
I try to seperate the criticism from the spam around my proposal:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
[...]And it does not seam to be too complicated,
We have so many advanced issues in comparison to the total number of PT
objects
On 01/17/2011 01:36 PM, Oleksandr Vlasov wrote:
Michał Borsukmichal.borsukat gmail.com writes:
This were true if we had 30 editors, but we have three. We have to bend
over to those who maintain them.
I do value the time and efforts editors' authors invested, and I believe
everyone does.
On 01/14/2011 08:37 AM, André Joost wrote:
Am 13.01.11 21:57, schrieb Michał Borsuk:
If this is your project, please stop at once, and wait until after the
vote.
Otherwise you will piss off many valuable mappers.
I think you never used josm so far.
You're tryng to derail the conversation
Am 14.01.2011 12:46, schrieb ant:
Hi,
On 14.01.2011 09:58, Michał Borsuk wrote:
How about you, and the few of us who understand why the proposal is a
mere nonsense, develop a better proposal? We seem to share the
understanding of the flaws; a new proposal may lead to a secession,
which
be surprising, but in many areas the map is pretty full. In my
area almost everything is mapped. If somebody likes editing OSM, they
might just as well turn to mapping bus lines, with some help from us.
Greetings,
--
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?
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On 01/13/2011 01:27 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Hello all,
I note with some alarm the very complex, relation-heavy proposal for
mapping simple public transport objects.
Suddenly I am not all alone?
Greetings,
LMB
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Am 12.01.2011 07:50, schrieb André Joost:
Am 11.01.11 17:01, schrieb Michał Borsuk: You do get that information
when you are at the spot. It is written on
the timetable.
If you are able to see, yes. But disabled (that is everyone who has to
use public transport because he/she is not able
of the
principles.
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is not to reinvent the
wheel, no matter how much one likes programming.
cheers
also,
ant
michal
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http
Google Transit data, but again, Google
Transit at present covers very small area.)
Greetngs,
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to
have a clear standard for beginners, and for our own ease of use (and fun).
Greetings,
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On 01/12/2011 05:07 PM, ant wrote:
A node in this context means a
place where i can change from one bus (tram) line to another without
having to walk more than a few metres.In the proposed scheme a stop
area is exactly this.
Sorry, but this is absolutely pointless. First of all, modern
On 01/12/2011 06:34 PM, ant wrote:
On 12.01.2011 17:27, Richard Mann wrote:
I think there is some misunderstanding. I'm talking about the use of
relations to group stop positions and platforms together that are
considered a stop or station where one can change vehicles.
Again, why enter it
Am 11.01.2011 13:14, schrieb Vincent Privat:
2011/1/11 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
mailto:michal.bor...@gmail.com
Am 11.01.2011 10:34, schrieb Claudius Henrichs:
Arguments for relations in each direction:
- easier to check correctness and completeness (simply select
,
*sensible learning curve.
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Am 11.01.2011 11:55, schrieb André Joost:
Am 11.01.11 08:33, schrieb Michał Borsuk:
Is there anybody else using it? I'd like to see more examples out of
Germany or Switzerland, bitte.
You will find a lot of well-mapped routes here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/AVV
I have opened line
crucial.
I hope this is simple and clear. A creative (I hope) criticism of oxomoa and
Teddych's proposal follows.
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On 01/11/2011 08:53 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Hello everybody.
Now to what I'd change in the proposal:
1. Data consistency
Data consistency (not having a myriad of standards) is important,
...but it's not everything. Reaching this point to near 100% will cost
us the points below. I
in each
direction?
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, and not compatible with existing software, I am
specifically speaking about a JOSM plugin.
Michael
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On 14 December 2010 22:56, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
Today morning I got this off the list:
On 12/14/2010 07:56 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
I already told you twice to behave, you little shit. If it continues, I
will have you removed from the list.
Perhaps I did not find
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On 15 December 2010 07:37, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 07:10 +0100, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Sorry, but what is between me and him personally is not your business.
Maybe you sent more to him, but the only part that was posted here were
2 sentences, one
to show which is dominant where. It does not need a
public_transport key to confuse matters further.
Most of all, it works.
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On 11 December 2010 15:08, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
On 12/11/2010 09:26 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Many city and/or network public transport wiki pages in central
europe recommend to use highway=bus_stop _on_ the way
And they are wrong. Because according to OSM's
the data user worry about it.
I do it this way: end points from the timetable (Kursbuch), so the
forward role goes to the last stop indicated in the timetable, and the
backward role goes forth.
Richard
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need this role? Could you provide an
example, as I may not completely understand the details?
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.
This simply cannot be passed to the final draft unchanged (as is).
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the bus lines being awarded to the winner of an auction.
That's how it is west of Rhine (which is, of course, not necessarily
better). Such a body is easier to approach with an offer to share the
timetable.
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. Stay cautious. Ask another lawyer?
Greetings, and good luck.
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On 17.11.2010 13:51, Hillsman, Edward wrote:
Opnvkarte does not provide coverage in North America.
It might, as it did shortly in September, before the stall. It's called
opebusmap.org internationally.
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On 04.10.2010 11:09, Peter Miller wrote:
On 2 October 2010 05:28, Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
mailto:michal.bor...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/10/1 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com
[...] I'm pretty sure that if one gets the PT companies to
share
withing that
collection, but as of today there is no efficient way to deal with this.
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for most
mappers, and common editor for 1/3 of all users? (Mind you, there are things
Potlatch can do that are hardly possible in Josm or Merkaartor)
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On 10 September 2010 17:29, Michał Borsuk wrote:
I'd be very glad if the bug could be somehow corrected (sorry, not a Java
programmer myself).
It should be corrected now. The plugin now ignores commas within double
quotation marks and removes all double quotation marks from the input
(nodes) to
lines (relations) can be done automatically.
Any ideas how to do it?
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to use the app.
I've been to your website, but where's the executable?
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that, please post it cause I haven't tested
the application well yet (only on 2 dataset).
OK, I'll try to somehow filter out foreign data, and post it for a test.
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there is more than one bus stop.
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the scheme at once. It is crazy. I bet that it is responsible for
the suggestion that one route should be mapped twice, once in each
direction.
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On 31.07.2010 20:58, Heiko Jacobs wrote:
Michał Borsuk schrieb:
May I ask why bother? OSM is not a historic map, am I right?. What use
do I have of the information that once here there was a railway when
there are no traces, nothing to be found, nothing to be feared?
There are a lot of things
Hi!
I mostly deal with public transport, and I have an issue which I can't
find in wiki, so I hope to have answers from users of bigger experience
than mine.
For termini, as well as for larger transfer points it makes sense to use
amenity=bus_station in place of highway=bus_stop.
Now the
On 31 July 2010 10:06, Heiko Jacobs heiko.jac...@gmx.de wrote:
Michał Borsuk schrieb:
Without getting too much into the linguistic issues, I'd support the
Swedish railway=historic_path for anything further than stillgelegt
(English abandoned?), that is either with track, or without
mothballed / overgrown with trees, but not yet
removed. That could be mapped.
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On 31 July 2010 15:13, Heiko Jacobs heiko.jac...@gmx.de wrote:
Michał Borsuk schrieb:
I agree with your arguments. Then former?
former is a little bit non-specific.
A disused or abandoned railway may also be called former
It's already called disused or abandoned.
I don't like
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,
or too short?)
* blocking new posts here, and leaving an automatic reply with the link to
the forum (can be done in the mailing list list administration page, but
must be done by the admin)
Greetings,
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On 28.07.2010 12:06, Ed Loach wrote:
Sorry, I mentioned it now, then. I don’t like web forums, so wouldn’t
move if the email list closed.
Any sensible reasons for this?
LMB
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On 28.07.2010 12:41, Heiko Jacobs wrote:
Michał Borsuk schrieb:
Definitely. Forum is way better than a mailing list, a threaded forum
is even better.
I'm reading all OSM mailing lists threaded using thunderbird and
news.gmane.org
Thanks!
...and the group is called
On 28.07.2010 14:56, Heiko Jacobs wrote:
Michał Borsuk schrieb:
levelled seems to be a good idea.
I'd stick to what is being used now.
There is be nothing official (noted in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway )
for vanished ;-) rails ...
There might be some undocumented tries
] containing
the bus lines.
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On 15.07.2010 09:53, Peter Miller wrote:
This is a problem when it comes to creating clear map rendering where
one wants to snap the stop to correct side of the correct road and not
left them floating as they are currently. An additional complication
comes when one wants to position the
So you change the associated bus stops. Can be done.
Greetings,
LMB
On 15.07.2010 14:50, john whelan wrote:
I don't think this is a good idea as Ottawa certainly changes the bus
routes or lines four times a year. Some lines are stable for many
years but many are not. The stops themselves
On 15.07.2010 15:02, john whelan wrote:
You are talking about verifying 10,000 bus stops four times a year.
No, I'm talking about changing those when the bus lines change. Not all
bus stops have to be reviewed.
Greetings,
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and easy-to-implement standard.
I second that opinion. Email exchanges are a bit difficult when they grow.
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On 29.06.2010 09:33, Tiziano D'Angelo wrote:
+1
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 08:23, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.com
mailto:arun.plane...@gmail.com wrote:
Shouldn't we keep the schema to something that is easily
compatible with the Google Transit GTFS format instead of
developing
,
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On 28 June 2010 18:39, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote:
Le 28/06/2010 17:37, Michał Borsuk a écrit :
* no approved standard. Should the stops be within the line as a point,
or as their physical location shows?
If I have well understood the question, I think that a bus stop must
of question, potlatch is the ultimate medium. Potlatch allows
mapping, but not much more. The answer is not necessarily to go to a more
difficult tool, but maybe in the other direction of easier rules.
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the learning period is too long (the learning curve is too steep).
Since we cannot change people, we should bend the rules, and that's what I
am suggesting here: make it official.
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stating to which public
company/ticket area a line belongs, line ref should be enough to uniquely
identify a line (route).
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To Claudius and Shaun: why don't we have those rules written?
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