Hello everyone,
Results from the Southampton mapping party now shown on:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Southampton_Mapping_Party
All tracks are there apart from Andy (Saturday) and Dean (Sunday) - I'm
missing those at the moment.
For those in the area, once I've analysed what's been
Hello everyone,
A few updates on Freemap (www.free-map.org.uk), the UK countryside orientated
OSM mapping site, this week.
Firstly contours are available for almost all of England, Wales, and Dumfries
and Galloway (disc space constraints precludes the rest of Scotland);
previously, most of
Hello Andy,
Nick,
It all looks very nice.
It's also pointed out obvious errors in the location of photographs by
contributors to Geograph. In my view it rather defeats the object of that
project if contributors don't get the location of their photos right,
however all would not be lost of course
Hello Etienne,
OK. Actually I'll probably be coming up again on next Tuesday evening
(22nd) to meet up with Steve to give the GPS units back, so if you're
available then that's another possibility.
nick
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Hello everyone,
I've made a few tweaks to my OSM POI editor (probably to be superseded by
Potlatch) available at
http://www.free-map.org.uk/freemap/edit.php
This allows you to add points of interest using an NPE map (or Landsat, or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or freemap) as a background, and give them
On Thursday 17 May 2007 19:05, you wrote:
Hi Nick,
On 17 May 2007, at 10:47, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
Hello everyone,
By ditching SVG and using an alternative approach, the online point of
interest editor that I mentioned yesterday is now a good deal more
usable and
faster - so
Hello Shaun,
On 17 May 2007, at 21:25, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
[..]
Hello Shaun,
Hi Nick,
The only thing that is appearing is:
21:11: [JavaScript Error: div has no properties {file: http://
www.openlayers.org/dev/lib/OpenLayers/Map.js line: 165}]
I get that as well. Don't know
Hello David (and anyone else using this...)
Another adjustment to the POI editor this morning... I've now removed the
three modes. Now it just reacts to whatever you do with the mouse, i.e. if
you drag the mouse, the map moves, if you click on the map, a new POI is
created, and if you click
Much better ergonomics, thanks.
BUT, not all the nodes aren't showing up. I came on a place I know I
added
yesterday, and there's no nodes in the view. It says 'Got all nodes', no
server errors apparent. I checked in JOSM, and the nodes *are* there. (As
a
result I've managed to add some
Well I am getting a lot of 500's both on upload from POI and download in
JOSM.
But it seems pretty consistent which nodes it gets and which it doesn't -
I
always see Fishguard, I always see Newcastle Emlyn, I never see
Llansawel.
You are obviously culling nodes which you don't want to display,
On Friday 18 May 2007 20:49, Barry Crabtree wrote:
Hi
Just started using the editor to add some points, working pretty well for
me now, but have one suggestion for improvement one dumb question!
Can you make the text entry box semi-transparent. Usually it comes up and
covers up the name of
Hello David,
Can you make the weekend of September 22nd/23rd for the Isle of Wight
footpaths mapping we talked about at SOTM? If so I'll try and mention it to a
few people here.
One other person expressed an interest by private email.
Nick
___
On Saturday 21 Jul 2007 14:32, Dan Karran wrote:
Hi all,
I'd like to announce[1] the Isle of Man mapping party[2] to be held
1st September 2007. The main aim of it would be to try and fill in the
holes around the Island's capital, Douglas, and maybe some other areas
if there enough people
On Friday 03 Aug 2007 15:45, you wrote:
On 8/3/07, Nick Whitelegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just a quick comment on footpath tagging. Looking at Freemap the majority
of footpaths and bridleways are coming up in magenta (=permissive) rather
than red (=right of way). If you can verify
Hello Andy,
Hi,
I've been out in the Forest of Bere[1] grabbing GPS traces of the paths
running through the forest but I'm not 100% sure of the best way to tag
them on OSM. The paths themselves run can vary between maintained paths
which are wide enough to drive a vehicle down (but are not
My first thought was that it must have been added by our resident
tunnel engineer, but apparently not!
The second edit was mine (i.e. I added the note) - so why hasn't my
username showed up?
Nick
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Does someone want to own up to mapping the northern Hindhead Tunnel
approach? There's one issue with this being rendered, since neither
Mapnik nor Osmarender appear to recognise under construction tags, but
I'll deal with that on the main list.
Well I was in the area on Saturday - but it
Hello Andy,
Would like to make the evening venue of the East Hants mapping weekend the
Flower Pots Inn in Cheriton, which brews its own beer :-)
Only thing is, public transport to the area stops at 6.15pm so if we did make
it that venue, we'd need cars. I don't drive myself... would you be
Hello Andy,
Flower Pots Cheriton, evening venue for mapping party
OK - thanks for that. I'll provisionally put that down for the venue. Will
play it by ear a bit though, in case we get more people than car spaces.
Morning venue will probably be a coffee shop of some kind in Petersfield
(will
Might have some ideas for Freemap anyhow :-)
OpenQuo, anyone? :-)
Nick
Steve Coast [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11/09/2007 15:10
To
Frank Tompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject
Re: [Talk-GB] FW: Quo
It's like Google My Maps, in a proprietary
Hello everyone,
If you are thinking of coming to the East Hants party at the weekend and need
a GPS unit PLEASE LET ME KNOW on:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
BY TOMORROW (Friday) LUNCHTIME so that, if necessary, I can go over to Reigate
tomorrow to pick some up from Steve.
Thanks,
Nick
Hello everyone,
Thanks to all (Andy, Rob, Dan, Colin, Roger and Jack) who attended what
I'm sure everyone would agree was a very successful mapping weekend.
Indeed I think it was probably the most successful weekend I've been on in
terms of coverage, with the vast majority of roads and
Hello everyone,
Following on from the successful East Hampshire mapping party this weekend,
there's yet another party planned in the same area next month, organised in
conjunction with the British Computer Society. Map the historic and
attractive city of Winchester, one of the few urban blank
Sun Oct 14: Morning editing session (learn how to use JOSM)
/me sniffs
Sorry - Potlatch too... Just finished a long JOSM session adding the
weekend's mapping so had it on the brain, also I'm not 100% sure whether
we'll have internet access.
Nick
Nick - you clash with Sheffield and all the units are booked to go
there so we need to sort something out?
Could we do half and half? Or even, say, just 6 units?
There will probably be quite a few newbies at Winchester so I think we
need at least 6, people can pair up or go in groups if
Could we do half and half? Or even, say, just 6 units?
Sorry, make that 4, could probably get away with that.
Nick
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Hello everyone,
The attractive cathedral city of Winchester is one of the few areas in
southern Hampshire not on the OSM map (to any great extent) yet, so it's an
obvious choice for a mapping party! So come along on Oct 12-14 to help map
the city. The many tree lined streets mean that it
Hello everyone,
The morning planning venue for the party is now confirmed as the
conference room at the Mercure Wessex Hotel, Paternoster Row, Winchester
(just northeast of the cathedral). Andy (or anyone else) - would you be
able to bring along a laptop?
There are 4 OSM GPS units available
The nights are closing in and the weather's getting lousy...
Is it? :-)
Nick
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Hello everyone,
One or two new developments on Freemap (free-map.org.uk) and Osmajax. I've
implemented a feature where Freemap users can upload a GPX trace (this also
gets uploaded to OSM) and then the Osmajax editor will load up, showing them
their trace, plus waypoints, ready to draw upon.
Hey Nick,
its giving me an xml parsing error on both ff and opera
Hello Tim,
Not sure how that happened! It was working fine when I put it back up a
week or so ago. I think the error was there anyway but now I'm setting a
mime type of XML for some reason.
I'll look at it this evening.
Nick
Looks like the South Downs Way has almost been completed, mapped continuously
from Winchester to Lewes - just the last 15 or 20 miles left to do.
Nick
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Hello everyone,
Have made a number of improvements to Freemap recently but downloading the
Geograph photos (on by default) does slow it down rather. Do people feel
it would be better for them to be off by default (that's what I'm doing
on the New Forest Free Map; see blog post) or would it
Hello everyone,
Freemap (www.free-map.org.uk) is now using the standard Google tiling system
making it fully compatible with other OSM renderers. It also now has a wider
range of zoom levels - from 0 right down to 17, and starts with a map of the
whole UK making it easier to locate any part
Hello everyone,
Following a weekend I spent up there with the family just now (too wet,
windy and icy to do high level walks sadly, but I mapped some valley
footpaths meaning the Langdale area is pretty complete now) I'd like to
propose another summer outdoors mapping event, returning to the
Forgot to say - wiki page is at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Lake_District_II
- sign up if possibly interested.
Nick
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Nick - if you read this could you re-try the script please?
Steve - to confirm, Tom Hughes said it was due to the bzip process taking
longer. I'll re-schedule for on a Thursday morning. I can't ssh into
the dev server at the moment (box in for repairs) so it'll be tomorrow at
the earliest
There are only a handful of towns left to map in Surrey (Farnham,
Camberley, Caterham, Woking being the main ones) so one subject for
discussion will be how to get the county finished.
Won't be there tomorrow night as it's a bit out of my area - but one point
to remember is that the southwest
On Monday 04 Feb 2008 12:37, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
Apologies to the rest of the list, but I can't find any other way to
contact Nick Whitelegg to let him know that free-map.org.uk appears to
be down - I get a
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at
www.free-map.org.uk
Sounds like you might consider arranging a mapping party. I bet there
would
be plenty of takers for a trip to Cornwall on a warm weekend
Or even Dorset and Somerset (more accessible hence more time for mapping
:-) )
Nick
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Hello everyone,
It's been a while since the last Solent area pub meet, so it's about time for
another one :-) I'm fairly free in March so can do more or less anytime but
would like to initially suggest the evening of Tuesday March 11th, 8pm at the
Crown, Highfield, Southampton. Please let me
... the existence of a permissive footpath a mere three miles away from
where you've lived for most of the last 18 years!
And that's something I've learnt as someone who's into walking
You won't get that on any non OSM maps
Nick
___
Talk-GB
Have added specific info about UK rights of way to the Trail page; I believe
this matches what common practice is. See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapping/Features/Trail
Please let me know if there's anything wildly inaccurate there.
Thanks,
Nick
Hello everyone,
(cross posted to talk in case anyone from abroad fancies a holiday over
here)
Following on from last year's successful Lake District mapping week I'd
like to float the idea of a follow up this year - I now have a definite
week in the early summer when I know I'll be free
Hello everyone,
Have updated the wiki page on the Southwest Surrey mapping party happening
on April 19/20, including a 'cake' showing the areas to cover and a
provisional schedule. For the moment I have suggested the Caffe Nero in
Godalming as a meeting place, however if I hear of any free
Would be good to get some sort of consensus on UK countryside mapping,
particularly with respect to the need to show both the official status of
paths and their surface / condition / width. I've started up a wiki page at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/UK_Countryside_mapping
with one
Hello everyone,
Sorry - Freemap is temporarily down today.
This is because the latest planet import failed, due to generation of the
planet.osm taking longer than normal, meaning the cron job due to take
place Thursday 3am to generate a UK planet file failed.
Unfortunately I can't access the
I'm no longer in the UK so I won't make it.
I have 3G -- we can Skype you in from wherever you happen to be.
I can forward some people who might not follow this list if you want.
Please do...
Not a Surrey person (but residing in the next door county at least) but I
might be interested
Hello everyone,
Sorry about this but looks like I'll have to cancel the Wales weekend. I'm
going on holiday to Spain (Murcia area) in early September and due to
difficulties getting time off work etc, the only time the others can do is
the week of the 6th-13th. I may be able to get up to Wales
Hello everyone,
Based on recent activity it looks like Hampshire is beginning to rival
Surrey in terms of completeness. To this end I thought it would be about
time for a Hampshire social/planning meeting.
How does the Crown, Southampton on the evening of Thursday Nov 27th 8pm
sound?
Let me
Hello everyone,
I would like to confirm a Hampshire area pub meet for next Thursday (27th)
at the Crown Inn, Highfield, Southampton at 8pm.
Please come along if you have been involved in, or are interested in,
mapping Hampshire. With Hampshire rapidly becoming mapped, the meet will
also be
can i put in a good word for reading? i don't live there any more and
i don't know anyone in LUGs there. but there is a university with a
cybernetics course, so there should be plenty of geeks.
Kevin Warwick roaming the streets with an army of GPS-chip-implanted
cyborgs? Eek!
(yep, I'd
Hello everyone,
Was there talk of another mapping party this month somewhere in the
southwest on the 24/25th? If it's daytrippable from Southampton I should
be able to make it. Was Yeovil an idea?
BTW also look out for a south Hampshire name collecting party in March,
details to follow.
Nick
Hello everyone,
Details of the upcoming South Hampshire mapping party on March 14/15 are
now available on the wiki at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/South_Hampshire_Mapping_Party_09
Aim of the weekend will be to fill in as many street names as possible in
the Portsmouth, Havant and
Hello everyone,
A reminder that the South Hampshire mapping party is happening this
weekend (14th/15th), details at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/South_Hampshire_Mapping_Party_09
South Hampshire is currently one of the best-mapped areas outside London
in the UK, and in particular
I see no reason for paths to be tagged differently just because they are
in an urban or rural setting, but then I find highway=footway intensely
irritating! Why footway exists but a tag for public footpaths doesn't
is frankly beyond me.
It kind of does, the designation tag has been mentioned on
Hello everyone,
The rendering on the Freemap site (www.free-map.org.uk) which aims to
produce UK countryside maps from OSM data has altered in the light of
recent discussions on footpath tagging.
There are now two layers on the rendering. The lower layer shows dashed
black lines to indicate
Hello everyone,
I'm planning to do a wholesale conversion of all my surveyed footpaths,
bridleways etc to use the designation (designation=public_footpath,
designation=public_bridleway etc) or designated (foot=designated,
horse=designated) etc, and at the same time convert all my
Hello Andy,
I'm expecting to organise another 6 parties through the rest of this year
so
people's preference for locations please shout up again.
From that list: Poole (as it's localish to me), and ideally over the
summer (ie June/July/Aug) (but not between July 11-26) as that part of the
Tom Hughes wrote:
I normally just use tertiary for roads which are not A/B but are
significant through roads of some sort.
+1
My criterion is normally that a tertiary road is a rural road too busy to
comfortably walk along. Most use of tertiary I've seen corresponds to
this, though there
SteveC st...@asklater.com
Sent by: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org
30/05/2009 15:53
To
Talk GB talk-gb@openstreetmap.org, Talk Openstreetmap
t...@openstreetmap.org
cc
Subject
[Talk-GB] Isle of Wight 2
How about a weekend again and rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight?
This time
Quick update on Freemap - a countryside orientated OSM renderer covering
England and Wales
Nick Whitelegg/FT/Solent
09/06/2009 13:42
To
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
cc
Subject
Freemap (OSM for walkers) - increased coverage
Hello everyone,
Quick update on Freemap - a countryside
Hello Mike,
Just catching up on my talk-GB email and was looking at Nick's nice new
free-map. Ilkley Moor is on, so it is clearly Ideologically Sound.
:-)
Thanks Nick.
The Yorkshire moors look very empty though. There is a whole wealth of
detail that can be added from NPE and local
So hopefully you can see where I'm going with this. I want to represent
ways with a legitimate ?foot=yes? tag. In the absence of signposts, in
practice the guide for UK walkers is the OS map, but if I walk a route
which I believe follows the OS map for the purposes of a GPS trace, is
this not
And just a quick reminder that the NPE edition map is available as on
overlay in both JOSM and Potlatch editors
David
Caution is needed here though. I have an NPE map of the local area which I
sometimes use to locate possible rights of way in an area with which I am
unfamiliar. In about 80%
Following on from this, am I correct in assuming that the only
definitive source of mapping information about public rights of way is
the OS? It seems ludicrous that *public* rights of way are effectively
copyrighted in this manner. I suppose it's analagous to the issue with
council boundaries.
My main comment was that the proposal didn't 'sit' well with the
government regional structures.
I do have to make the comment though that the government regional
structures are rather arbitrary and do not reflect real cultural regions.
Where I am in Southampton, I'm supposedly in the same
What is the point of local chapters in England? We don't have language
conversion issues, currency issues or time zone issues.
Cheers, Chris
One need would be to organise and coordinate local mapping. For instance,
in my area (the Solent area or central southern England for want of a
better
Also, the definitive map/statement is not even definitive! The
Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 set a cut off date of 2026 for
all rights of way to be recorded on definitive statements or be lost,
Going off the OSM subject, but: would presence on an NPE map as a black
dashed line but
Chris Hill chillly...@yahoo.co.uk
18/08/2009 17:08
To
Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
cc
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject
Re: [Talk-GB] English chapter
Nick Whitelegg wrote:
What is the point of local chapters in England? We don't have
language
conversion issues
We seem unable to contact Liam123 via normal channels. This means we
have to think of other ways of contacting members who continually put
mistakes into the dataset.
Is it not possible to put a flag on his account, so when he logs in he
is told what he has been doing and asked to explain himself?
TBH I thought I had announced this in June but a quick search of the
mailing lists suggest I didn't, must have been too distracted with
organising my holiday.
Anyway, an updated version (3) of Freemap Mobile, a Java ME based mobile
mapping application orientated towards countryside users is
Hello everyone,
After a long hiatus in mapping parties in the south of England, I'd like
to announce one on Sunday November 1st in Fareham, Hants, near Portsmouth.
This is being partly run as an OSM taster session with the local branch of
the British Computer Society, though experienced OSMers
An unintended consequence of the First Edition/OSM mashup (see earlier
post) is that I have an image of rights of way coverage of the UK in OSM.
See
http://www.free-map.org.uk/images/tiles2/firsted/5/15/10.png
Clearly shows we need more countryside mappers in the east, southwest and
Wales!
Hello everyone,
Brief details of the Fareham mapping event are now available on the wiki
at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Fareham_Mapping_Party
Fareham is one of the few south Hampshire towns with a relatively small
number of street names, so come along and finish the job! There
Hello everyone,
Following on from the unintentional rights-of-way coverage map generated
by zooming out from the OSM/First Edition mashup that I mentioned the
other day, I've now done a script to generate a real one.
It's available at
http://www.free-map.org.uk/freemap/stats/statsmap.php
Hello Andy,
Couple of comments on that. Quite a lot of PROW within the urban sprawl.
These being ways that have had to be adjusted and realigned when housing
development extended, but at least were maintained as a route.
True, though perhaps these aren't so important to show as most people
It's a bit more sophisticated than that; see the URL for what I consider
a right of way. Note that I tried a version with highway=footway,foot=yes
added in, and got the same sort of pattern.
Nick
In fact, it's possible to add highway=footway, foot=yes to the definition
of a right of way by
Hello Andy,
Couple of comments on that. Quite a lot of PROW within the urban
sprawl.
These being ways that have had to be adjusted and realigned when
housing
development extended, but at least were maintained as a route.
True, though perhaps these aren't so important to show as most people
Hello everyone,
A reminder that the Fareham mapping party takes place tomorrow meeting
Fareham station 10am.
See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Fareham_Mapping_Party
for more details.
The weather's maybe a bit iffy in the morning, but hopefully will clear by
12.00 giving a few
Does anyone from Surrey (and Hants, Sussex or Berks) fancy a social in
Guildford during the first week in December? I'm thinking of Wednesday
2nd or Thursday 3rd.
Yes, definitely.
Nick
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Not sure whether this is vandalism or just a bit of 'fun' (I suspect
the latter). I would go through and just remove all the names but I
don't have sufficient local knowledge to determine which are genuine (I
know The Devil's Highway is right, and I'm pretty sure that Poo Alley is
wrong, but
Hi Andy,
Had a couple in mind, firstly a mini-party for Haslemere (surrey) which is
partly complete but not totally.
I could also do Andover from the priority list as it's quite local to me.
Thirdly I'd like to do a larger-scale countryside event in the summer down
here in the south somewhere,
The residential areas and suburbs of *any* town aren't places you'd
normally go unless you had to, but we do to map them. Mapping Berry Hill
or Ladybrook wouldn't be any different to mapping a suburb in any other
town in the UK.
To be fair it can be quite pleasant mapping the nicer residential
No idea whether c-class road references are nationally unique. It seems
both plausible and implausible at the same time.
The C-numbers seem to low (1000) for them to be national.
You'd probably end up with 6-figure C roads if they were nationally
numbered...
Also Kent isn't in region 3 for
Anyone want to arrange something an April? hint hint
;-)
Yes, I can still do but due to likely work pressure it will now have to be
April 10/11 or 17/18 - I'm probably going to have to work until about
1pm-2pm on the weekend of 24/25 and May 1/2/3.
I'll see how Haslemere's doing and if it
I wouldn?t take PRoW refs from any source unless I was completely
confident that it?s compatible with OSM?s license
Sorry, meant to raise this point in my last reply.
Would any source also include footpath signs with the number on? This is
common practice on the Isle of Wight, and I myself
Hello everyone,
Would like to propose a mini mapping party for Sat April 17th to cover
the Surrey/W Sussex/Hampshire borderlands. This area is generally well
mapped but there are a number of missing streets in several of the
villages / small towns in the area - e.g. Hindhead, Midhurst, Witley,
To follow on from my earlier email, I'd like to now confirm the date of
the Three Counties mini mapping party (Haslemere, Surrey) as Saturday
April 17th. Aim will be to complete a number of the villages and small
towns in the Haslemere area.
Details on the wiki at
Does that mean there's nothing at all for countryside users in the OS
data being released? Or does Meridian have it?
Sorry to follow up my own post - it would appear not.
A real shame about the lack of countryside data in this free OS dataset.
The Meridian data doesn't really contain anything
Hi Andy,
I'm not sure the OS has reliable footpath data for the countryside
anyway.
Last time I chatted with the OS about this they were interested in
whether
OSM could work with them to update rural ROW footpaths because they don't
survey them anymore.
Really? - that's interesting. Do you
Despite being disappointed at the lack of public right of way/field boundary
info in the OS releases, I have to admit that VectorMap District does *look*
very nice, kind of like Landranger minus contours and footpaths.
So I'm wondering, would it be possible to create maps which combine the
Hello everyone,
Just a reminder that the Three Counties mapping party is taking place this
Saturday 17th April at Haslemere, Surrey meeting 9.30am in the Costa
Coffee on Haslemere High Street.
Background: Surrey, West Sussex and Hampshire is increasingly well mapped
in OpenStreetMap with good
We had a discussion about this point during the Kidderminster mapping
party
on Saturday. Our decision (relating to the Black Country in our case) was
that we would use OS OpenData StreetView, especially in partly mapped
areas,
but we would record some info on the wiki for each area covered so
Might be cool to set up a Saturday mapping party and social combined
somewhere easy to reach and needing some mapping between London and
Birmingham. We could thrash out the bones of a UK chapter and see who's
interested in working on it over a beer or two.
Anyone want to look and suggest a
Hello everyone,
In case of interest here:
There is a British Computer Society talk given by a couple of guys from
the Ordnance Survey on OpenSpace and the release of free data at my work
place tomorrow.
It's at Room HC029, Southampton Solent University, 6pm for 6.30pm.
Nick
Apparently OS regards the PRoW data as containing IP belonging to the
local authorities (who maintain the definitive maps), and so were
unable to release them as part of OpenData. There is an agreement that
allows OS to include PRoW data in their Explorer and Landranger Maps.
Sorry, meant to send
Hello everyone,
A reminder on behalf of Andy Street that there is a mapping party this
weekend (both days) at Andover, Hampshire.
A bit of background (from the wiki page): The county of Hampshire is
increasingly well mapped in OpenStreetMap with good coverage of a number
of towns and cities
If you've got reasonable non-copyright evidence that there's a PROW
across the field, use designation=public_footpath. If there's a path
that people seem to use, use the highway=path tag (or some other
highway tag if you prefer), and maybe a surface tag. You can have a
OSM way with just a
Greg,
Yes, there are a large number of POIs not in the correct place. Whether these
are a genuine mistake or some idiot trying to be funny I don't know, but I
think they should be reverted. I think a sysadmin needs to do that.
Nick
From: Greg Auger
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