--- Jake Spatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.
What's puzzling me is why do the women put up with this
behavior? Do they like the attention, and don't find it
rude, or are they too polite, or timid, to speak up if
they don't like it? Or what?
I've asked a few women about this in the past,
--- Darlene Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sometimes tango dancers overstep their bounds...
sometimes it's exacerbated because the situation involves
an INSTRUCTOR, which damages the reputation of the entire
community.
Darlene,
While I completely understand where you're coming from
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... I was talking about students being inspired and, for
that, 'fine dancing' just won't do. What is the purpose of
a demonstration at a Tango Festival, if not to inspire the
participants?
I've put finger on what bothered me about the video. And
it wasn't
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That attention finds typically the complete novice
hereabouts doesn't make
the cross. This is no problem - she and I make whatever
steps do come to us.
That's fine, but don't just don't call it the cross when it
isn't. Otherwise, it's disrepectful to
Chris, next time, pay attention to what a completely novice
woman actually does and you'll see for yourself.
Personally, I think it's better to learn from real life
experiences than assumptions. Oh, and don't say a word to
her, just lead her.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
IMO, the first thing every lady need to learn is how to
make a connection with the man and how to follow. But is
that enough? Well it is if the lady is satisfied to just
make the steps and make the 'moves'. On the other hand,
if she wants to dance in a
Since there have been some comments about the Buffalo tango
scene, I thought I'd offer my perspective as an outside
observer. I just got back from teaching there and met
quite a few of the tango community. I found Buffalo to be
a young and promising community and I met a couple of good
Yes, I agree completely with you, Martin. I find that not
using the knee is the most common fault of people who try
to learn toe-first. And there's more than just the knee.
There's also the lowering of the hip, which is discussed in
Steve's articles as pelvic tilt (great articles, Steve!).
If
Hi Mario,
One of the differences in milonga is that the rhythm is
constantly telling the woman to move. In fact, one could
say that the woman is always prepared to move in milonga at
every beat. So it's not that she's more balanced in
milonga as it is that she's always prepared to move. It
Personally, I've found Barbra's sig to be warm and
informative. Tango needs more people like that.
Trini de Pittsburgh
P.S. Anyone tried promoting tango on Facebook or MySpace,
yet? If so, how's it working out?
--- Floyd Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another point can be made. The sig
Hi Jackie,
That's something we've been trying to encourage here. One
barrier to expressiveness is not knowing the music. I've
noticed around here that generally, women do not tend to
study the music as much as the men. Around here, at least,
it's the men who work harder at knowing the music.
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
she doesn't extend the leg from the hip. she starts
under the rib cage.
Girls, unless you too have had your hip joints surgically
raised by 20cm...
...keep in mind that region is employed equally by the
standing leg,
giving you groundedness
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Mario,
I never heard of Robert Hauk before I read your posts. So
I checked him out
on YouTube. What do you find attractive in his dancing?
Videos don't do justice to Alicia Pons, either. I think
there are some people who just appear better in person than
Hello Dyane,
There could be several reasons why you're meeting
resistance. Others might be homophobic or insecure about
their own tango, but there's also the possibility that they
may think you still have a lot to work as a follower before
you can tackle the difficulty of leading. Here, if
--- Michael Figart II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My lead is to show my partner the nature, the length, and
the direction of the step. As she gathers all this
information, her job is to interpret it, and do her
very best to step exactly WITH me, not to step ahead
of my step, but to help move our
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The tide of the music reaches the lucky ones
before the harbour
walls grow too high. So empowered, they start to learn to
dance.
Wow, Chris, you posted something that I actually agree with
and like. Before the harbour walls grow too high. For
some
--- Anton Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From my experience, having not learnt to love it, they
then proceed to look for music they do like, to which
they can dance Tango. And it seems more and more non Tango
music lovers, are dancing Tango to non Tango music.
From my experience, this
Hello Janis,
Out of genuine curiosity, did you listen to tango music for
a year before you began dancing? If I think about those I
know who have done very well in tango, I honestly don't
think that they would wait for a year before hitting the
dance floor. They're much too accomplished to let a
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do Americans have this big problem with the 8CB? Could
it be because of the way Americans learn Tango?
Keith, HK
The short answer is yes. Tom's post gives the long
answer. I even know of a well-known Argentine teacher who
worked with an excellent
--- Trini y Sean (PATangoS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So how can the 8CB be taught successfully? I focused on
using steps 3-8 and used the other steps as accessories.
Oops! I meant focusing on steps 3-5 and using steps 1-2
and 6-8 as accessories.
Trini
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine
On Mon Feb 11 1:36 , Mario sent:
I would like to start a thread that discusses walking
and all of its many variations
and challenges ...
Such a thread could take forever because they can be so
many details! And controversy over teaching versus
stylistic issues.
I agree with
Hola listeros,
Thanks everyone for the really great advice. Its been
something Ive wanted to ask for awhile but was dreading
generating a lot of negative posts instead.
Someone also sent me a private email giving some great
advice about movement of the couple. Youd basically pick
one part
Hola everyone!
If youre an anti-performance person, please hit your
delete key.
So I'm wondering if folks might have some tips regarding
demos or performances. Our community has gotten a bunch of
demo requests lately, particularly among the college
students for their universities or college
Videos can hide the truth in both directions. I've seen
videos where the person comes across much better than they
actually are. The best way to get information is to talk
with people and do the homework. This is what the smart
consumer should be doing.
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Shahrukh,
I, among many others I'm sure, appreciate all you do in
keeping this list going. As an instructor, I encourage my
students to subscribe to Tango-L. However, in the past,
I've also had to qualify it by telling them there's a lot
of junk emails, but there are a few gems, as well. I
--- Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would like to ask if there is any exercise that
a lead can perform alone that would help develop
balance and axis to avoid the above problem?
Hello Mario,
I find that balance and axis are largely influenced by
grounding. Grounding can be looked
--- Igor Polk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Emotional connection has nothing to do with quality of
dancing in all styles. Yes, good dancing give birth to
emotional connection, but thinking about it in the opposite
way, it is like fixing the car engine from the trunk.
I disagree. The mind/psyche
--- Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did you notice the woman lead a quick turn herself?-
near to the end of the video..,
I didn't see her do anything that wasn't lead. Can you
pinpoint the minutes/seconds when you think she backleads?
Good dancers have a number of tools with which to lead.
--- Krasimir Stoyanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You missed the point. I said that she does what is needed
for a good dance, but not always. And I am puzzled why.
She may dance well for a tanda, or for the whole milonga,
but then, it may be a week or more, before it happens
again. And, as I
--- Krasimir Stoyanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Enough of what? I have my own opinion and the right to
express it.
You have already. And again and again and again and again
and again, without adding anything new. Try saying
something new or take it offline if you want to continue
arguing.
I'm sorry, I meant to say take it off-list rather than
take it offline.
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburghs most popular social dance!
http://patangos.home.comcast.net/
--- Krasimir Stoyanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think it is the contrary, she is too focused. I do all
kind of subtle things, and she thinks her job is to
detect them. That makes her anxious she might miss to
react accordingly.
Sounds more like nerves, then. When I feel my partner (man
or
Mario,
If you read more of Chris' posts, you will also understand
that he is also saying that women do not need to study at
all. This is true but only to a point. It works quite well
if a woman only dances with really good partners, which is,
say, 1% of the tanguera population, perhaps? :-)
I don't think that's Jennifer. That's not Jennifer's walk
or footwork, which I've been admiring for the past couple
of days in Ann Arbor.
Trini
--- Astrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martin, who you are calling a robotic stick figure from
practica x without
any soul is actually Jennifer
Thanks for pointing that out, Janis. Is it okay for her to
say gracias at the end of the tanda, though? Now that I
think about it, I usually part company by thanking my
partner while we're still on the dance floor and then
chatting with him on the way off of the floor.
Trini de Pittsburgh
---
I reviewed the original video from the Tango Video Project,
which has a much clearer image. It's definitely not
Jennifer. The woman in the YouTube video has a rounder
face and different hair.
Still an interesting exercise for me in trying to identify
the woman in the YouTube video by how she
There was a good dancer from BsAs watching. She said
to my partner, That's the most I've ever seen someone
in the US teach like in BsAs..
Her comment, tangopeer, could have meant that you taught
technique and could have been irrelevant to whether you
used a choreography or not. It would
Funny, the predominant method of teaching of Argentine
instructors seems based on choreography. And we all agree
that the Argentines have the best tango dancers.
Gosh, I think the evidence is there that sequences do work.
But it's also important to apply it when appropriately.
Trini de
Hi buffmilonguera,
Its sound as if youre off to a good start. However, Id
be concerned about investing so much of your own financial
resources if your intent is to be a non-profit. With your
current activities, I dont see the advantage of being a
non-profit instead of a for-profit, unless
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've done it at my own milongas but would feel
uncomfortable doing it
at other milongas. As for doing it in Buenos Aires -
forget it! I'm so
far down the pecking order, I wouldn't say a word :-).
Keith, HK
I can understand your reluctance, Keith, but
Have you ever considered that quite possibly the actual
workshops might reflect the tango in BsAs? Unless one
actually takes the workshop, I don't see the point in
criticizing it.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Janis Kenyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When I read...
integrating more steps
develop
So, Chris, did you tell Gustavo about the problems that you
saw in the class and asked him about his methodology?
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I watched with dismay as the standard of dancing steadily
deteriorated. The struggle to get bodies at the required
It's a constant source of amazement to me that dancers,
not tourists, the cleaners, or someone who stumbled into
the place by mistake, but dancers! - will stand in a group
of 4 or 5 on a dance floor and hold a $^%*(* discussion
while people dance around them. Perhaps they are urgently
--- Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How's this for a solution - ask them to move the
conversation off of the floor.
Makes good sense to me. How many times do you think I
need to keep doing that before it gets through to them?
It only takes me once. But if you have problems, call
--- Mario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, here is my Milonga Playlist on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=258B1FD6C731EA19
16 Milonga videos.. ...the first one is pf Hugo Daniel
doing his Milonga moves alone in front of a class..
Mario:
I couldn't access your playlist, but I
--- Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So TFH and Chris, UK, have either of you ever danced
with a guy who only learned tango by just dancing?
Does Tete count?
A few months ago in Ann Arbor, Tete was good enough to give
a charla on tango. He mentioned learning with friends and
how he
--- Carol Shepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I originally learned milonga as a quickly moving and
sassy dance that
travels over the floor. In close embrace the traspie and
other rhythmic
'stops' and small shuffles are interesting, but feel
deliberately
constrained for such a sweeping
--- Trini y Sean (PATangoS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Carol,
I think you're referring to milonga liso, which has those
longer steps.
Sorry, Carol. I should have said milonga caminito and
not milonga liso (which I got confused with tango liso).
At least, that is what I have heard
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... I don't spend my time looking only for women who are
great dancers; ... I dance with women I like. I like the
way they dance, the way they behave, the way they treat
people; I like their personality. I just like them as
people, so I want to dance with them.
--- Nussbaum, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am severely afflicted with split personality. I want to
dance Disarli like Gustavo, Darienzo like Chicho,
Piazzola and alternative music like Sebastian, Pugliese
like Osvaldo, Vals like Julio, and Milonga like
Javier. Help!! Is anyone ever
I don't know about otehr women, but I don't consider myself
as having a seat. I do have a place for a drink or where
I stash my shoes, but I tend to wander around, sometimes in
search of a partner or visit with friends. I think this is
common in my neck of the woods. Perhaps this is one reason
Sean here,
I have a different opinion than Trini on this. While it's
true that most N. American milongas that we attend don't
have reserved seating, I still prefer to escort a lady off
of the dance floor. I would be a bit taken aback, and
perhaps offended, if she wouldn't go along with me.
Sean
One solution to teach them how to get dances. Sitting in
one spot all night, expecting someone to come up to you is
not a very effective way to meet people. The women who are
successful in getting dances are the ones who aren't afraid
to get up, will visit the food table which is a great place
Stephen Brown wrote:
Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing
the length of tandas to three songs to promote/enable more
rotation between partners. I'm interested in opinions about
the desirablity of such an approach.
--
Sean again, I have an opinion about this approach...
--- Tango For Her [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I NEVER ENCOURAGED ANYONE TO USE VISUAL CUES. Do the
exercise in close embrace with your eyes closed!
And what is so wrong with using visual cues? It's still
one of the 5 senses. I see it as a useful tool until the
sense of touch or kinethetics
Tsk, Tsk, some of you guys seem to be answering as if the
woman is an object. :)
The marca/lead and the movement of the step are two
different things. And what actually happens is a third
matter, which I think is the point of TFH's post. The
woman might decide to shorten the step (or lengthen
Sorry, Igor. I did not mean to suggest that either you or
TFH were responding with the woman as an object. I was
just a little disturbed that TFH offered a very nice
exercise that could be useful to the newbies on this list.
However, the responses could muddle it up for the newbies
instead of
The man leads. He determines the step. That is his role.
But there is so much more to this dance than leading steps.
If I dance to the same music with 10 different women,
together we will create 10 very different dances. I will
lead every step for every dance, and the women will follow.
But still
--- Krasimir Stoyanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, I have not yet seen a tango, that is 50/50 dialogue.
...
This dance is a monologue, like it or not, adorned by some
additions from the follower.
...
Otherwise, instead of telling a story, (painting canvas,
playing violin), it becomes a
Wow TFH, I am suprised that you thought my response was
directed at you. From your various postings, I have
believed that you have in fact experienced the sort of
synergy I describe. The parragraph that you find so
personally insulting is in fact intended to refute the
assertion that This dance is
Igor,
The main issue wasn't comparing a person to an instrument
so much as it was the relationship between two people. In
the violin thread, it was about the man using the woman.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Igor Polk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Please, tell me why someone can not stand comparison
Thank you, Ed, for finally bringing up the slang usage. It
sounded to me as if the original commenter simply didn't
have an adequate way of expressing himself.
This thread started when Tango For Her described the floor
our my canvas and the woman is my brush. I didn't take
offense because I
Society of Central Illinois
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12/16/07, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their
keys
from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit
I think you were conned there Cherie. I've been on the
receiving end of more than one uninvited waist wrap. It's a
situation that always calls for the hand sanitizer before
inviting the next woman to dance. I have been to many
classes in many different parts of the US, and I have never
seen women
Sometimes I will instruct a student (usually a man) to
lightly brush the woman's legs in order to get him to move
closer to the woman. Usually, I'll need to do it for
progressive back ochos where the man tends to go more
sideways than forward. The woman, in turn, can lightly
brush back (inside
Gosh, I'm glad that for my practicas, which I deejay, I
don't need to base my selections on what other folks want.
I figure that is what milongas are for. For practicas, my
focus is on teaching and it's difficult to work with
beginners (who tend to arrive early) to alternative music.
This is
--- meaning of life [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i think that tango is about spirit and intent, there are
identifiable moves, customs and behaviors. it is these
things that make it tango, not necessarily the music.
Suppose there is no music at all? Just you and your
partner, the lights dimmed,
Oops. I meant it was a Pugliese (not Piazzola) class. - t
--- Trini y Sean (PATangoS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- meaning of life [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i think that tango is about spirit and intent, there
are
identifiable moves, customs and behaviors. it is these
things
I get it, now. You suck compared to the image of where
you'd like to be or the process you think it takes.
Actually, you can just start with giving her pleasure now.
Women just want to be paid attention to.
As for your music tastes, a big difference that helps me as
a follower is if the leader
Hi Steve,
I can see where my comment might be taken negatively, but
it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I assumed based on his
comments, perhaps mistakenly, that Doug has become a bona
fide tango junkie.
Sucking at something is only negative if it bothers you.
For example, I suck at Texas
Hello Doug (and everyone),
Welcome to a dance in which you'll never be fully satisfied
with how you dance. With time, you'll suck less and less.
Just enjoy the process, which is much more important than
the end result, anyway. So what if you don't become the
next Miguel Zotto.
As for those
This video came from a workshop in DC from a couple of
years ago, so unless the poster got permission from
Anne-Sophie and Pablo, it shouldn't be on YouTube. As a
tango organizer, I find this disturbing and potentially
unfair to those who paid for the workshops. Of course if
Anne-Sophie and Pablo
Sorry to be posting so late on this thread. But the smart
tango consumer can always ask the organizer/teacher what
the class is about and judge for themselves whether it
suits their needs.
There may be those organizers who say take everything
because they'll be great for their every event. The
Please reread the rules for posting to Tango-L. Your two
emails should have only gone to Tango-A, not Tango-L.
Good luck on your events.
Thanks,
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburghs most popular social dance!
Cyrano just had a big nose, which he thought made him ugly.
He wasn't grotesque.
I won't speak for Nina, but my interpretation of Cyrano is
that he romanced the woman from afar by appealing to her
mind. For many women, nothing is sexier. I find that this
is the same difference between the
I'd say that the sender is showing his/her insecurities. I
would think that anyone who has worked hard to build a
tango community should be confident enough in his/her work
that it would stand up on its own. In my opinion, this
sender is only hurting himself.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Amaury de
point Trini!
-Original Message-
From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 11:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] How to foster sustainable and
unified communities.
I'd say that the sender is showing his
--- Igor Polk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When one has 4 couples who do not change partners per,
say, other 6-7
couples, it is a real disaster.
What to do with it?
My advice would be to chill. Otherwise, you may find
yourself in an awkward position. For example, I have had
couples stick
--- Darlene Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When a guy is new, he
doesn't have a clue about the proper embrace. A strong
lead can take an inexperienced woman and make her look
and FEEL great. A weak lead feels completely intimidated
and like a blubbering idiot.
Shudder. There's that
--- Lois Donnay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ladies, when you pick
teachers or listen to your
leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can
follow?
No, not even if the comment regards women's technique.
However, I have always compared their comments to those of
women whose dancing I
Hi Janis,
Since you were an organizer before many had a personal
computer in their home, I can see where you'd be concerned.
As it happens, I'm the one sponsoring Melina Detlef on
their visa process for next year's visit (with help from
Ray Barbosa). To get a visa, it's best to get actual work
Hi all,
I hosted Jon Judy a couple of years ago and found them to
be a nice couple. My impression was that they were just
not very informed about the level of teaching going on in
the U.S. Seeing that they moved to BsAs quite a few years
ago, I can see why that might be.
They did a nice job
Gosh, for such a being such a terrible teacher, it's a
wonder that so many of Susana's students (men women) get
danced with at all at any of these festivals! Hmmm...could
it be that they actually know how to dance?
Funny, when I compare notes with other experienced women
(nuevo and salon
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because so many people in the U.S. teach performance and
stage tango (i.e. open embrace) instead of traditional
social tango, which is what close embrace is basically,
she seemed like a novelty. Older dancers here and
especially milongueros and milongueras in
person to
dance with and
amazing to see dancing.
Warmest regards,
Nina
At 02:47 PM 7/31/2007, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote:
Tango is very, very simple. I guess we have to get
through all the
complexities and engineering challenges first before
we
can see this
simplicity
--- Jeff Gaynor wrote:
... The limiting factor in tango, much like music, is
neurological. You must repeat patterns a great deal to
cause growth in the neural pathways until you can
internalize the movement...
One of the most effective things you can do it think
thoroughly about whatever
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