Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth - silly head snaps
Here is a reference in the archive to head snaps: http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2005/msg01347.html John Ward Bristol, UK __ Get up to £150 by recycling your old mobile - visit www.tiscali.co.uk/recycle ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Roots of Tango
While often a popular topic of discussion, its actually very difficult if not impossible to try to isolate the roots of a dance by identifying a particular place of origin or with a particular historical dance. It seems much more appropriate to discuss influences rather than roots. As far as any dance having African influences, it would appear difficult to identify any modern vernacular dance thats originated in the Western hemisphere in the last 150 years that doesnt have African influences, some just being more obvious than others. As an example far removed from tango, consider the history of tap dance. Tap draws on Irish jigs, Scottish reels, English clogs and African shuffle dances. For any one of these influences to be singled out as being the roots of tap is impossible but it has clearly been influenced by all of them. While tango undoubtedly has African influences, compared to modern Latin dances and even swing dance, the influence would seem comparatively mild. While the rhythms and some of the movements may be discerned, consider that a very defining feature of virtually all historical tribal African dances was a separation of the partners, that is, men and women danced apart, generally with no physical contact at all. The influence of this African dance characteristic can be seen in the openness of swing, disco, contemporary club dancing and in salsa. Interestingly in contrast, in tango certainly one of the most defining characteristics is the close embrace of the partners. For a surprisingly good scholarly discussion of the evolution of the influences of different musical cultures on Western music and dance, I would recommend Cuba and Its Music: From the First Drums to the Mambo by Ned Sublette. Dont be put off by the title, its about much more than just Cuba (which served as a crossroads) and includes good discussions of dancing. It is well-researched and documented with sources and footnotes. It presents a much better and broader analysis of the influence of African rhythms (as well as other influences) on Western music than the Thompson book on tango (even though Sublette does cite it in places). For anyone interested in the early cross-pollination of influences in the evolution of unique Western music, including tango, I would strongly recommend taking a look at the life and works of Louis Moreau Gottschalk. If you havent heard of him, he was born in New Orleans in 1829. His father was an English-born businessman of Jewish Spanish descent and his mother was French Creole Haitian. He was a child prodigy on the piano and was classically trained in Paris. When he returned, besides living in New Orleans, he made many lengthy trips to Cuba and Central and South America. He died in 1869 at the age of 40 while in Rio de Janeiro. Even though he is largely unknown today, he was hugely popular giving large concerts in the 1850s and 60s, incorporating classical skills with the ethnic music of the Caribbean and Central and South America, Creole music, the rhythms of African slaves heard in the Place Congo, Spanish folk music, and French ballroom dances. Try listening to Bamboula, written in 1845. While it is widely-regarded as the forerunner of ragtime, elements of what would become tango can be found in it also. If there is a common root of African rhythms, the haberna, ragtime, and tango, it may very well be traced through the works of Louis Moreau Gottschalk. WBSmith mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Finnish Tandas
Yes I can confirm everything Richard says us is correct. As to websites on Finnish tango, try: http://www.tangomarkkinat.fi/english/etusivu.htm http://www.fimic.fi/ (search on tango - there are no direct links to the articles) and my blog http://www.finnishtango.blogspot.com/ John Ward Bristol, UK __ Find the answer to your questions - www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
Thanks for the comments on tandas. I don't find them surprising. Huck, I totally agree that we dont cater to beginners, that we generally hold the codigos more important than any compromise. As you said, our approach is to favor those with (ten) years of experience. As far as asking beginners to dance with only one or two songs left in a tanda, I agree that its an excellent idea. Unfortunately, beginner men generally don't have an opportunity to ask in the middle of a tanda. But from past comments from women on this list and what Ive seen and heard first hand, in reality I dont think they are being asked late in a tanda very much. I hope you are one that practices it regularly. As far as playing anything other than tandas having to be awful, Im less inclined to go along. I go to other types of dances with DJed music. Its generally played with some kind of organization and is rarely, to use your term, played willy-nilly. It is not played in strict 4 song sequences without partner changes in between. Also, it sounds like the Finns use a somewhat different structure, a modified tanda of only 2 songs with encouraged (mandatory?) changes between. While their style of tango is certainly not the traditional Argentine tango, it certainly appears to have achieved immense popularity there. That returns me to my original question, that perhaps we believe that the codigos are in fact more important, perhaps even essential, to Argentine tango than any compromise that could be made for increased accessibility. What impact do we think this might have on the future of Argentine tango? Do we think that there will always be those few who get it and will be willing to put in the years? No flames please. Im not exactly sure where Im at myself on these questions. I seriously dont know the answers and am offering this only for consideration. mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Use and Abuse of Tandas
Steve, You wrote: From the dancers' perspective, the success of this strategy depends critically on the dj playing well-constructed tandas throughout the night. Absolutely. And I would go further to say that the ability of a dj to choose an appropriate sequence is just as critical, if not more so, at non-tango dances where tandas are not used to avoid either disrupting the energy or sounding willy-nilly. For the record, I'm not necessarily advocating doing away with tandas. I am asking if there could be alternatives or modifications that might make milongas more friendly, particularly for beginners. Perhaps one alternative might be to play either singles or 2 song tandas early in the evening when beginners are more likely to be present, then progress to longer tandas as the evening progresses and the more experienced dancers take the floor. DJ's would have to be aware that their successive choices in single or short tandas would be just as critical as constructing a full tanda. mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] the sexy-tango myth
When Shahrukh Marchant created TANGO-L in the '90s I participated in it for several years. I just returned to it and began by scanning Lucy Lynch's archive of the last couple of years. I noticed that people are still making the silly claim that tango is the sexiest of all dances. Get real, people. Not even a strip tease is sexy. Only people are. Consider a strip tease done by someone you find unattractive or even plain repulsive. Consider your reaction if that same someone does a gancho between your legs or a leg-caress or presses their body tightly against yours, or any of the other passionate tango moves. Is there any act that they can do that would turn you on? In 50 years of dancing several kinds of swing, ballroom, disco, folk, and tropical dances I've found that it's the person and their attitude toward you that is sexy, not any specific dance or movement of a dance. I still remember a stately waltz that I did with a long-time lover that was as sexy as any of the tangos I've done over the nineteen years I've danced tango. It began while we were separated by a room's distance and only caught glimpses of each other at first. For most of the evening while we danced with others we slowly came nearer each other, stealing looks at the other and pretending not to notice the other's existence. The evening was almost over before we embraced and moved onto the dance floor, to circle the room at arms length, doing nothing complicated at all, but lost in each other. Larry de Los Angeles _ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iighEHn9KdDgwtTmizLzv2RDOGrRpp2PkpOiLH44znzJHa7n0/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo tango just another evolutionary wave
I have absolutely no trouble watching, learning, or doing nuevo tango - and I'm an old geezer in his 60s. And I certainly don't shave my head or grow a goat's-beard beard or dress in cargo pants. In fact, I usually wear a vest and tie and dance dress shoes and an Armani suit or jacket - NOT for snob appeal but because Armani designs are engineering marvels: comfy, fit right off the rack, and feel as light and cool as elven illusions. Then as the evening wears on I strip off vest then tie then jacket and eventually shift to a short sleeved shirt. And once a month I wear jeans and a tee and tennies just to play around with styles. I think all of you gritching about how awful and shallow and inelegant nuevo is are a bunch of old fogies regardless of your age. Or maybe a bunch of children who never grew up. Lighten up. It's just another of the evolutionary waves that tango has gone through ever since it was invented. Eventually people will assimilate the good parts and reject the silly parts. And the young pups of today grown older will be gritching about the next new thing! Larry de Los Angeles _ Click here for free information on starting a business from your home. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieVCyAPTr89tKinTbEYVFkwxuZ7SwbiASFy4HUvdXjkvpfai/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Ladies Leading
The second Tuesday there starts here in L.A. a practica hosted by CasaDePractica.com for ladies who lead. I intend to go as a follower. When I first saw women leading (mostly) other women I was annoyed. It meant that TWO women were taken out of the pool of women dancers. I was also annoyed because most of the women had all the bad qualities of beginning leaders: insensitivity to their surroundings, trying movements too advanced for them, trying fast and big movements which endangered others, and so on. As time went by I noticed more women leading, but grew less annoyed. As their average skill level improved they became less dangerous. It also dawned on me that here was a chance to learn to be a follower. I'd heard that learning to follow made (most) leaders better. Also, in classes I'd had teachers who were really good leaders demonstrate a technique by leading me in it. It was fun. I didn't have to think or be responsible or anything but just float along and enjoy the music. It took me years to get to the point where I could experience this Zen tango while leading and it might have taken longer if I hadn't had some meditation training. So out of curiosity is this phenomenon, ladies leading, on the rise in other areas? And do they lead men a lot? Larry de Los Angeles _ Looking for insurance? Click to compare and save big. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifSf08r7S7J1g5xO1uQ8fNnN5BiKtjXfZdaBr2hsiThnIx0m/?count=1234567890 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Ladies Leading
Nina Pesochinsky--- So where did the men get the naive idea that following is not having to think or be responsible or anything but just float along and enjoy the music. ?! [followed by some of the problems women have dancing] THE men? Gotta watch that generalizing from one man to all! THEY are not to blame for my, ahm, crimes. And you mean that every dance experience I have as a follower is not going to be, or even approach, the ideal experience? Darn. buffmilonguera--- I am surprised that you found women to be insensitive, too fancy, etc. I learned as a follow, and repeatedly tell new leaders, no amount of fancy steps can substitute for a warm embrace and musicality. Not that I didn't try to learn some of the fancy steps as a new lead, but I don't worry about them very much when I am at a milongaand certainly a lot less than some of the male leads I see/dance with. you found women to be insensitive, too 'fancy,' etc. Nope. I specifically said MOST women leaders. Maybe MANY or SOME would have been more accurate, but it's the worst offenders who we remember. As we must. It's a leaders job to avoid the bad leaders so that we can protect our partners from them. Women on the average likely will bring different advantages (and disadvantages) to leading. But few are immune to the same problems most male leaders have, especially when beginning to learn leading. One of those is dealing with a lot of sensory input from the surroundings and navigating them. Another is wanting to give your partner a special experience, which includes fancying up the 'steps' one leads. A warm embrace and musicality is certainly important, maybe more important than any other part of dancing. But repeating the same patterns over and over again with no variety is going to bore some followers. Also, many women I know spend a lot of time working to make whip-crack smart their boleos, ganchos, golpecitos, and such and would be disappointed not to be given chances to use them. Chris, UK (excerpt) --- I think the problem is having no clue as to the guy-guy thing that makes the ronda happen I've never noticed that guys were naturally all that adept at making the ronda happen, either. Especially when beginning to dance, it's not easy to stay aware of all that's going on around us AND attend to your partner's special problems AND interpret the music etc. In fact, women may naturally be better leaders. Brain function research suggests that ON THE AVERAGE women do mental time-sharing better than men, while men on the average are better at focusing all their attention on one target. Larry de Los Angeles _ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiflKGLEU7PszL9ouMPY6viX83HnR35w6giNqJvy80lIbrLOq/?count=1234567890 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango Diversity under one big tent: Nuevo milonguerohappy together?
There is a lot of sense in what Ron says. After all, you never see anyone dancing ballroom tango at a milonga. At least I never have. Perhaps it is time to rename nueveo Argentine Ballroom Tango to go alongside International Ballroom and American Ballroom, and to have special events devoted to it. Milonguero could be called Classical Argentine Tango, on the lines of classical ballet. Then everybody would know what to expect. John Ward Bristol, UK ___ Free games from Tiscali Play - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Finding tango in out-of-the-way places
Finding tango in small towns is hard. There are several ways to go about it, aside from TANGO-L and such which usually don't work too well. One way is bring up Google.com, select Maps, and enter city state milonga. Put the city and the state in double quotes if they are two or three words. You can also use Argentine tango instead of milonga, but you will get a lot of unwanted references if you do. Failing that, try a search for state Argentine tango. Many states have a society for the entire state and pointers to individual cities. I had no success with either of those approaches. Using the next largest metro area, Tom's River, about 25 miles north, just gave me The next step is to look for a larger city close by. Long Beach City is on the coast about 25 miles south of Toms River. All a search there did was to find links in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Trenton, New Jersey. Both of those are about 45 miles to the east. Can you get there? If so, try my search suggestions for those two cities. Larry de Los Angeles _ Click to create your dream holiday in Florida. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifFNH2EeBiLYaEiRt01DtuE5rbM2SrvaZtTRJxYFo6SLSh3c/?count=1234567890 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tips for Followers?
Recently I went to Lynn Lewin's practica here in L.A. for ladies who lead (www.casadepractica.com). There were six women and two men, counting me, at the practica, which is held in a garage turned dance venue with a beautiful wooden floor which has just enough give to feel soft but not like a trampoline. Before I went I scanned the last couple of years of TANGO-L archives for pointers on following, since I went to learn how to follow. I found enough on leading to fill a doctoral dissertation but almost nothing on following - unless you count followers complaining about bad leading! Here are some of the things I learned, most given me by those I practiced with. From past experience learning many different dances I know that I may have to change or even discard what I'm learning now. Following is not passive. It includes communication using the silent language of our bodies, with followers doing much active listening. Leaders also must listen to their partner's body language, so I'd had plenty of practice doing this. Some of those skills helped, but I didn't instantly become expert at doing it as a follower. At first with each partner I was a bit tense but as we became acquainted and I found I could trust her my body relaxed. With a couple of partners later on in the evening I began to feel a, perhaps quietness is the best word, from my body. Yet it wasn't the relaxation that comes before sleep, but a very awake feeling. I had trouble with my right hand at first. I was tense and pushed with it. Later (under my partners' urging) I began to learn to simply leave where she placed it in the beginning, supported by my arm, letting it flex a little but returning to a central position. Different partners wanted my right hand oriented differently and I had to learn to match their desire. Luckily none wanted it oriented in a painful or awkward arrangement and I didn't have to resist their preference. My left arm rested along the top of her shoulders in close embrace. I had to fine-tune how heavy or light I rested it. Too little and our connection was poorer; too much and the weight would become painful. A couple of leaders positioned me further away and had me place my left hand just above her biceps. With this I had to learn not only to keep my arm from drooping but also to grasp firmly but not painfully. I had some trouble leaning into my partners the way they wanted and still need to work on this. I always thought that my slight forward lean as a leader would be the same as a follower, but there seem to be subtle differences that go beyond mere physics. I suspect that only experience will fine-tune this. And I wonder if women's jokes about men followers needing to wear high heels are more than jokes. I always thought heels were just for looks, but maybe they give followers some real benefits. When moving a couple of my partners urged me to step back straighter and stretch my toes a bit to reach the floor. This helped keep our knees from bumping together. It seemed to have other benefits that I felt but don't understand. But then intellectual understanding is not the only kind. Our bodies also have kinesthetic smarts, which don't go through the higher brain. I've long looked down on the 8-count basic. As a beginning follower I appreciated it because once my leader started it I knew just what to do, unlike the nervous uncertainty when any step could bring a surprise. I suppose it's a matter of using it to learn, then being able to discard it when I gain skill at taking each single step with confidence. Any experienced followers out there who can give us newbies pointers on how to follow? AND how better to learn to follow? Larry de Los Angeles _ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iighEHnLgivjRrExZoVChuL7aKe6sBXcNSkx71jQNExuvILcu/?count=1234567890 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Coming to LA?
If you come to LA feel free to contact me for advice about where to go dancing. But first check out a couple of useful websites. The first is mine, the second by Vladimir Estrin. Each has its advantages. Among mine, if you click on the address of a milonga a map will pop up showing its location. The map also lets you find a route from your location to the milonga and places to eat near the milonga. http://larrydla.home.att.net/ http://www.tangoaficionado.com/ If you see me at a milonga feel free to say hello. If you'd like a few dances to break the ice at the milonga let me know. To identify me check the following link which has a couple of photos. http://larrydla.home.att.net/aboutme.html Larry de Los Angeles Need cash? Click to get a loan. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiekGrLVPG7zFVo52CpaILfZquBMNcvIiwpZT2wpyZ5I9UtCy/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Milongas of Buenos Aires
A useful guide to tango in Greater Buenos Aires is maintained by the government. Among many web pages on the site is one that lets you find milongas for any day and locale. Clicking on a milonga name brings up a window with info about it, including a link to the milonga's web page if it has one. http://www.tangodata.gov.ar/ingles/home_milongas.php ___ To hear some travelers to Buenos Aires every milonga is alike. It's easy to understand why. It's natural for people to seek out and continue going to just those milongas which suit their tastes best. But when I went I was looking for as much variety as I could find, since my personal situation makes travel difficult and I might not ever be able to go back to BsAs. I went to noon-time practicas, matinee milongas, and late- night milongas. Each practica or milonga was as individual as their organizers and their regulars and seemed to have its own special atmosphere. On any weekend night in Greater BsAs there are more than forty milongas to choose from, so some organizers may work to make their milongas stand out from the crowd. I went to three young-peoples milongas, and each of them was very different. One was a night club for twenty- somethings with several hundred people packed together and the bars doing very good business. Half the time a Beatles-look-alike band played only Beatles music, the other half a DJ played traditional tangos but without cortinas. A second was for late-teens and early twenties and had a traditional milonga organization. This seemed to be more social- than dance-oriented. The third was a milonga for teens, some of whom seemed as young as thirteen and the oldest barely eighteen. The dancers there seemed very serious about tango, had lots of training in both traditional and show tango, and did advanced figures very compactly and within the flow. I had the weird feeling that the dancers at this third milonga were all grownups despite being the youngest of them all. I also went to the most expensive milonga I could find. Everyone there seemed to be professionals and dressed fashionably and well. They also seemed to be the tallest dancers in the city! I saw a few men with short haircuts who acted as if they were movers and shakers, possibly government or military officials or business executives. Each was with a trophy wife half his age. Or, more likely, a high-class hooker. Each had that look that I'd seen so often while a military policeman - I've seen everything and I am not impressed. I was presented with a hostess, very beautiful and well- dressed, who the host said was an expert swing dancer. (They were playing a swing set.) I told her I was sorry but I only danced tango. Speaking of swing, one older man in a beautiful grey suit and short white beard danced it (and tango) so elegantly and with such enjoyment that I wondered if he was a teacher or former professional or milonguero de swing. I also went to many of what one talky cab-driver called old peoples' milongas though to me the age distributions seemed to be all over the place. They were in all sorts of venues. These included a former gymnasium with basketball boundary markings on the floor, a thirties-style former night club, a modern night club, a confiteria, and a large convention hall. Some of these milongas had several hundred guests. One crowd I estimated at well over a thousand. Several of the milongas had tandas of other kinds of dancing interspersed among tango tandas. These included tropical: cumbias, merengues, rumbas, and others but no salsa. (Salsa and cumbia occupy almost the same dance space, and salsa is popular enough in Argentina to have its own salsa-only clubs.) Also swing dancing. We tend to think of swing as an American dance and say only Americans can really dance it. But swing has long been popular in Argentina and some of the best swing dancing I've ever seen were in Argentine milongas. (I began dancing rock-n-roll as a teenager and have done other kinds of swing.) The spirit of any dance refuses to be prisoned within national boundaries. That's certainly true of the wild exuberance of swing, which the Nazis suppressed in Germany in the run-up to WW II. What were your experiences with Argentine milongas? How far from the stereotypes did some vary? What practices seemed common? Larry de Los Angeles Need cash? Click to get a cash advance. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiekCoYKOgrWupzvODTTrrO6FrZQettUzCTKX1QGrVf1aqNl4/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Milongas of Buenos Aires - 2
Several people have emailed me asking for the names of the milongas I went to. It was several years ago; I don't remember. The curious might look at my writing web page for some specifics. It has a link to a diary of my visit, written when I got back home, and expanded from daily posts to TANGO-L. The diary does not include all my experiences. For instance, since I was in the Hotel Bristol only a block away from Confiteria Ideal I sometimes stopped by there two or three times a day for various reasons, such as to meet someone. (Ideal is open every day of the week. And I highly recommend el Bristol. It's inexpensive, centrally located, and recently renovated to a high standard.) http://www.hotelbristol.com.ar/english/home.htm I also did not mention the non-tango dance places I went to, such as the night-club with a goth-looking crowd out front. Which I found out when I got inside was for gays of both sexes looking to hook up. Before I could escape two French women asked me to sit with them to ask me about Los Angeles, where they were going next. http://larrydla.home.att.net/writing.html _EXCERPTS FROM TANGO DIARY_ I open the window and look out. The tops of buildings show even less care than their fronts. The people, however, bely that overall impression. The economy may be depressed, but the people do not seem to be. This Sunday afternoon they are out in the streets, strolling, busy, seemingly happy and full of energy. They are all ages and sexes, casually but often very nicely dressed. Perhaps Paris was very like this a few years after WW2. The bed is comfortable. After settling in I crash, leaving the window open for a cool, light breeze. When I wake at 3:00 in the afternoon I feel amazingly good. I clean up, dress, go downstairs, excited at my first free moments in Buenos Aires. I put my valuables in the safe at the lobby then go outside. There is sun coming through the clouds and the temperature is perfect. Just walking outside onto the sidewalk is thrilling. I am here! Across the street is a little convenience store. I buy just a snack and a drink, though I am very hungry. I am eager to see the city. I go a half block East, walk North on Nueve de Julio. This street is so wide (20 or more lanes, a full city block in width) that it is like walking in a canyon. The cool breeze rushes down 9 de Julio, ruffles my hair, bathes my face, just as it would in a desert canyon. Larry de Los Angeles Beauty School Programs - Get the career you've always wanted. Click Now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiglKzOqCae9ag5gK3joAopApq7A6HIDDULAKinUBTGuisPdQ/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Confiteria Ideal
Darlene writes- I never went to Confiteria Ideal (and it was only mentioned as a place tourists go). The person who told you that was wrong. Certainly tourists go there, but the place is hardly deluged with them. It's very popular with Argentines, for several reasons. It is centrally located. Easy to get to. There are many restaurants and hotels nearby, plus many kinds of shops. Classes are offered every day, often several. On the bottom floor you can have dinner and see a tango show. There's a milonga every day of the week on the second floor. See the following link listing them. http://www.confiteriaideal.com/milongas.htm Furthermore, it is a place tourists SHOULD see. Scroll down the page just mentioned to the photos and you'll see why. It's a beautiful place which captures much of the history of the city. Further, tango turistas tend to be reverential of tango customs and well-behaved. Naturally there are always a few who transgress from ignorance or arrogance. But then that's true of Argentines as well. (What? You thought all milongueros are angels!) Another benefit when I went to BsAs was that many announcements of new events and places to dance can be found there. It is also a good place to rendezvous. Do not let anyone keep you away from the wonderful Confiteria Ideal. Larry de Los Angeles Great rates on vacations. Book now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifjEtC9yprAqmnJViyAvZpqNaLY4XgpNxn7D7km30vJb3xg2/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango Police
The wonderful thing about tango is that there is no official organization to define what tango is, with tango police penalizing someone when they see them doing in-authentic tango. Of course this doesn't keep those with an officious mindset from setting up their own tastes as the One True Authentic tango. So it was refreshing to read Astrid's comment about milonga, who simply gave an example and said this is what she likes. The exact quote is - THIS is a milonga... ;) My kind of milonga, anyway... Larry de Los Angeles Click to get a free auto insurance quotes from top companies. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifSLoQaMcnI80mG33St7f8Tm91CiGNa6hekOXp5FbsUITE3I/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Homesick for Buenos Aires?
Can you be homesick for a city you only visited a couple of weeks several years ago? It seems you can. I got tears in my eyes as I watched this video, and it seemed as if my heart hurt in my chest. In it a modern tango orchestra plays El Huracan and shows many photos of Buenos Aires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mER-y8HK5g8 Has it happened to any of you who have only visited the city? Larry de Los Angeles Click now for great deals on quality business cards! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieUwngld0jQ58X53vIYqNxlLJkyApKHtIiveWuM0Qkn0G3FQ/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Don't pick on XXXXX
Don't pick on whoever-it-is for his posts and their number. If they get really excessive the moderator will step in. Meanness like this is why some people never contribute to TANGO-L. And drives some away. Larry de Los Angeles Save on Moving Supplies. Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iig8H3ehJULrJ3ivXZYooxtDgVSthOQIm1D5b22oLLbEC6unY/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Molinetes - the REAL tango basic
Have you learned molinetes, also called giros? If so, you know what many Argentines consider the real tango basic. The linear pattern of the 8CB and its cousins are derided by some as tango for foreigners. Mingo Pugliese was one of the foremost champions of the molinete. Molinete means wheel and there are several variations. For instance, the man acts as the hub and the woman the rim, doing a grapevine around him, taking four, six, or eight steps. In another variation both complete a circle around a center point. And the man can do a grapevine around his partner while she acts as the hub. Giros make a lot of sense in very tight crowds. They are compact and do not have to travel, although they can. __ Here are some videos. The examples happens in the the first ten-to- thirty seconds. The grapevine done in 4 steps around a center point. (You can also do it in 6 or 8 steps around a center point. Or more pairs of steps if doing it in a line or long curve.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0TQZmfgKmg In these two videos the man stays in the center. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfmmWqXTDKY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRe7verxzu8 Here the two dancers make a circle around a center point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPoBN-x--WM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtBAjSdM1w You can add sacadas and barridas to giros. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54hsLwvx1iw And finally a beautiful longer piece by two professionals to a vals. They stay in the same spot, a small balcony or the top of a set of stairs. They do all three variations of the giro. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWRCYIc3Hqo Larry de Los Angeles Click here for low prices on a huge selection of popcorn poppers! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiesgN5BIr84IgBsufBf1XfgTGty0Ft8IDFuC7ETH8KHgcuw6/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] What the heck is a Right foot front cross step?
Jack Dylan wrote Right foot front cross to left foot back cross; Right foot back cross to left foot front cross; Right foot open step to left foot open step; Left foot front cross to right foot back cross; Left foot back cross to right foot front cross; and Left foot open step to right foot open step. These phrases don't make intuitive sense, at least to those of us who have not taken Gustavo Naveira's classes. Which means most of us who read this are just going to skip what might be an important discussion. What about explaining just what a R/L foot open step is? And what is a R/L foot F/B cross step? Larry de Los Angeles Make your vacation more memorable with a luxurious vacation rental. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiflWOZiQYxnTYy1ydbBder3CzE6DMxF1rjO5om7h2VAPlF2i/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] So what is an OPEN mean?
Jack Dylan wrote -- Astrid, These concepts are only of any value to the man, as leader; they have no relevance to the lady, as follower. So don't worry your pretty little head about it :-)) Oooh, are you in deep shxx, at least if any of the women you want to dance with are on tango-l. And putting smileys after your message doesn't make it into a joke. I hope you don't pat your partners on the head and say Good girl! He also wrote -- The great thing about Naveira's terminology is that the lady's step is determined by her position relative to the man. For example; if the lady steps LF backward on the man's right side, this would be a LF back cross. This means, for example, that the man could lead her directly into a Back Ocho or a Giro to Left, both of which incorporate a LF back cross. But if the lady stepped LF backward on the man's left side, this would be a LF open step. This means, again for example, that the man could lead her directly into a Giro to Right, which incorprates a LF open step. He couldn't lead her directly into an Ocho without an intermediate step. From my perspective as a professional systems engineer, with well over a dozen years experience working for NASA and Boeing deconstructing systems (including human systems) much more complex than than the Naveira/Salas effort, I consider the Naveira/Salas terminology poorly thought out. There's a whole list of requirements for good terminology resulting from such system analyses. One of them is that labels have invariant meanings. Labels that change the way you decribe is a no-no. Perhaps the problem is that we're using English translations. Maybe the Spanish terms are instantly crystal clear to the average Spanish speaker. So maybe you can give us a simple explanation of just what open and closed mean. Larry de Los Angeles Sweepstakes!!! Enter for your chance to WIN a summer spa getaway! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/JKFkuJNzuHgFThcnVKzGYAVA5JUNGPqfc82p7FQ29NuJvZ1E0dzi4C/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The real, true, AUTHENTIC Argentine tango
Every few weeks, it seems, a brawl takes place in this and other like forums over what is REAL Argentine tango. You will never see such over what real British tango is, except maybe its name. The Imperial Society of Teachers of Dance about a century ago renamed it International tango to make it more popular. More recently the ISTD and its less offensively named cohorts have also named it Standard and (most recently) DanceSport tango. British tango is what you see on Dancing with the Stars (a spin-off of the Brit series Strictly Come Dancing). And British tango is what you will see in the Olympics when the ISTD and its fellows get ballroom dancing made an official Olympic sport. There is no argument about what is TRUE BritTango because there is a book that defines it in so much detail that you could almost program robots to do it. This situation was the background to the first feature film directed by Baz Luhrman (of Moulin Rouge fame). It was titled Strictly Ballroom and was especially hilarious to anyone who knows the International Ballroom world because it had so little exaggeration. And every few weeks we see people in this and other like forums who seem as if they would be happy to imitate the British model - if only their idea of Argentine tango were declared the only real, true, AUTHENTIC Argentine tango. There are even some Argentine tango teachers who sell collections of tapes and DVDs separated into bronze, silver, and gold levels just as the International world does each of their dances. The tango police most recently have declared that it is only REAL tango if a woman and a man dance it - but only if the man is the leader and the woman the follower. At other times they declare that nuevo tango (whatever the heck that is) is not REAL tango. Some people say only if you dance body-to-body are you doing TRUE Argentine tango. Others deride this as vulgar belly-bumping and inelegant. A milonguero, they say, is some street trash who drives a taxi or works as a janitor or short-order cook - if they even have a job. This view of the milonguero, incidentally, is not an unusual attitude of Argentines of older generations. And, of course, that favorite of clueless journalists looking for a sound bite - tango is SEXY! A vertical expression of a horizontal desire sounds so, so, ARGENTINE! And they haul out the myth that tango was invented in brothels. So what is the real nature of the Argentine tango? Maybe its flexibility, the difficulty of defining it in some hard-and-fast way, is part of the answer. It is like a good outfit which is high-quality but also easily tailored to our own body and needs and abilities - and each of us is the tailor. Which would explain why there are so many angry arguments over tango's true nature. Because each of us creates a version that satisfies our deepest needs, a version that is a reflection of our true selves. Thus anyone else who wants us to change our tango to match their version seems to be attacking us on our deepest levels rather than correcting superficial matters. So maybe those of us who stand back and watch these battles over what is real tango with amusement should be grateful for them instead. Because when they quit tango will have died and been replaced with an embalmed corpse. Larry de Los Angeles Save on Cell Phones. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifqvwj3oEzpaVdLl5Ghg5CMzORkh9lncP9n9DILpNtamQrBI/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Is tango sexy?
Jack Dylan writes - Larry, are you suggesting that tango is NOT sexy? I can dance with a lady who might be middle-aged and 20 pounds overweight. But if she really knows how to tango, man, when she's in my tange embrace, she's the sexiest woman alive! :-) Erh, Jack, your ideas of unsexy and mine obviously are different - middle-aged and 20 pounds overweight just about defines sexy woman to me! And who says what's overweight? But I get your point. Some people when they dance almost become different people - or show a side of themselves they often do not show in public. But there's a deeper question here, more than your or my tastes. Is tango itself sexy? No. Tango dancing is just a bunch of ideas and techniques and rules of how to dance, and each person has their own collection and variations of those memes. For instance, a caricia in tango is when someone uses their thigh, ankle, or foot to caress their partner. If the most repulsive person in the world (according to your own personal definition) caresses you, is that sexy? Unless you are masochistic, the answer is NO. It would be stomach-turning. Sexy is not a quality of a dance or a dance move. It's a quality of a person. And not just an innate quality. It depends on the context. Is she doing it because she loves/likes/lusts for me? Or is she setting me up for her pimp/boyfriend to rob and maybe kill me? Well, OK, maybe some guys would be extra-turned on by the danger, but that's part of the point. Tango can be used to seduce and to seduce back. Of course other dances can too. Any swing dancers here? Salsa dancers? You know what I mean. In by-gone days the waltz was used to devastating effect by seducers (and sometimes still is). But what is unique to tango is its range and flexibility of expressing emotion. So it certainly can be used to seduce. But many people miss an important point when they talk about how sexy tango dancers can be. Tango can also be used to express other emotions. So if we use the word is to mean can be used to express, tango IS sexy. And tango is sad, and happy, and full of rage, and exuberant, and funny, and full of sorrow at a loved one's death. Tango is the entire rainbow of feeling. Larry de Los Angeles Fast Computer Training. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieZ18O6lDqyXbNdovcGopEVsHKQiLSfFRrtKjv6AkYlkyKx8/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The language of Tango
Every dance is a language of the body. Some dances are very limited in how many words they have, ways to pronounce those words, and how they can be combined into sentences and paragraphs and so on. Some have more range. What's unique about tango is that the range of its language is a full order of magnitude (at least) more than any other social dance. It can be used on the stage to tell a story. Or to make an artistic statement that is like abstract art. Or make people laugh, as a string of jokes or a more organized comedic tale. And more. Still tango, but tango for show, where talented dancers give something to the world. And their more rarefied confections might seem to be more cerebral than passionate, but those of you who know tango performers know how much energy and caring and damned hard work goes into those confections. Performers must care a lot to exert so much time and effort into what they do, and their careers have a short shelf life. At thirty often their careers are over. Or tango can be much more casual. This is the way of many Argentines, who come to a milonga to meet their friends and chat and smoke and snack. And sometimes to dance a little tango with a very small vocabulary, and often not very well pronounced. If your Spanish is good enough sometimes you will hear them laugh at the foreigners and how seriously they take tango. Tango is sometimes used in courting, especially by the young. It's a way to get someone attractive to them in their arms. Sometimes they use it to impress with their skill and agility and stamina. Or maybe impress with their fashion style, dressing up sharply, or down in reverse supercasual street style - which is often more earnest and calculated in effect than those who dress up. But tango can be used for more than sexual reasons. A son may coax his mother onto the dance floor and tease her about being a wallflower. A father may dance with his daughter at a wedding after he's given her away to a son-in-law. A couple may dance in mourning at a wake for a friend they will no longer see. Ultimately tango is a house of many rooms, and it's up to each of us how many of those rooms we want to inhabit. If just one modest room, fine, that's your right. But it is wrong of you to insult others who have different needs and desires and abilities. You not only do them disservice, but yourself, when you are small-minded and divisive. Larry de Los Angeles Keep your hair. Click for permanent solution to hair restoration http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifueOhlMRCRcqprw7br50GML2O0LLcdK6RtQwWfYJYrCpZD8/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The Volcada
The discussion of the volcada which Jean-Pierre Sighe pointed out http://www.tangomagdalena.com/Newsletters/vol11_july08.html totally misrepresents what a volcada is (as well as being confusing in other ways). Volcada comes from the verb meaning to tip over, or pull off balance. It is an extreme lean. That is all. Not an extreme lean + a wide front boleo ending in a cruzada, as people might think because the three are often put together. Dancers can simply do a volcada and then recover to a normal embrace. Or they can hold the carpa (literally tent, an upside-down V stance) for a few beats. Or do a drag. Or a carousel. Or several other actions. Including the popular wide front boleo ending in a cross. there are lots of variations on the woman's front boleo. One is to make it an amague, a kick straight back instead of to the side wrapping around the woman's knee. Nor need it need to end in a cruzada, as the article suggests. The front boleo could lead into a normal boleo, followed by another front boleo. And finally into the woman stepping straight back with the free foot instead of a cross in front. If anybody cares to talk more about volcadas, we might talk about how to lead into it. But this message is long enough already. Larry de Los Angeles PS The volcada is not a nuevo tango move. It was old in 1989 when I started tango, long before anyone heard the term nuevo tango used to label a way of dancing. Make your vacation more memorable with a luxurious vacation rental. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiflWOBrJpR30AG5wgriYqFnXeNzKL4Ct3zuUeR4Og8LgKt26/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] How to lead volcadas
Anne Atheling asked me to give some links to videos showing volcadas. So I did a YouTube search which returned 625 videos. After about an hour and maybe 30 videos I gave up. Even the tutorials don't help. Why? Because they don't break the volcada combinations down. (Well, two did. Poor camera angles and terrible sound made it imposssible to learn from them.) So here is a verbal description. Let's see if I can make this clear and painless. I, the leader, step left. ---I, THE FOLLOWER, STEP RIGHT. I stop, legs apart with right foot in place. ---I STOP, LEGS APART, LEFT FOOT IN PLACE. I twist my upper body leftward to lead a backward ocho, but stop. ---I BEGIN A BACKWARD OCHO BUT STOP. MY FREE LEFT FOOT IS BEHIND MY ---SUPPORTING RIGHT FOOT. I firm up my embrace, and straighten my spine just a bit. ---I MAKE SURE MY TORSO IS STRAIGHT AND STRONG. I MAY TUCK MY LEFT FOOT ---BEHIND MY RIGHT ANKLE. (If I, the follower, have not experienced this lead I know something special is bout to happen but I don't know what. I likely will not strengthen my torso. I may feel a touch of anxiety.) I step back with my right foot, pulling her toward me. ---I LEAN FORWARD, RESTING MY UPPER BODY ON HIS. (If I have not experienced this situation before I panic. I step forward with my free left foot. I likely will also step forward with my newly freed right foot. We both end up embarrassed and/or angry.) Often nowadays the man will now lead a front boleo ending in a cruzada. But even if he does not many women will try to do this boleo+cruzada combination. BECAUSE SOME TEACHER STUPIDLY TAUGHT THE VOLCADA+BOLEO+CRUZADA AS A SINGLE UNIT!!! Teachers should teach the volcada as a separate, simple figure. Why? Because it lets students create several complex figures. Here are two. I walk around my partner's pivot point. This is a carousel. ---I DO NOTHING EXCEPT CONTINUE LEANING ON HIM. I walk backward. This is a drag. ---I DO NOTHING EXCEPT CONTINUE LEANING ON HIM. Lastly I should say that the beginning and ending of the volcada has several variations. Instead of the man beginning by stepping sideways left he could step forward left or backward left. (Or side/forward/backward right.) At the end rather than stepping back right he could step side right to briefly sandwich his partner's feet, then step back LEFT. Either way he leaves his legs apart. Alternatively he could add an additional backward step that brings his feet together. Some cautions for men. Do a half-turn before doing volcadas - this lets you see those further back in the flow and abort a volcada before they come nearer and endanger your partner and your pride. If your are unsure how expert your partner is with volcadas you should make the first lean a small one, then work up to bigger ones. If she does not straighten and strengthen her torso don't try volcadas. This is no exageration - she could seriously injure her back. A caution for women. If you have any problem with the lean, object. Give some excuse (such as a hurt back) if that makes you feel better. You can indeed injure your back doing volcadas. Larry de Los Angeles Click here for financial aid options. Quick and Easy. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iighofgyJUppXkfNCZQwNNVZhgQTt1MhTai10GyfxK5DWIr4W/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Open/crossed step uses?
Jack Dylan wrote I [took] some time and trouble to explain [the difference between an 'open' step and a 'crossed' step] but received no feedback. I hope you found my comments useful. They were useful. Thanks! Part of the difficulty understanding what open and crossed mean is the terminolgy (in English, anyway). Naveira etc. are not talking about an open STEP, or crossed STEP, which would refer to a step or a stance of one person. They are talking about the relation between two people. (A crossed STEP is when a person crosses one foot in front of or behind another foot. Step 5 of the 8CB is a crossed step. When a man leads a molinete he may cross one foot behind another so he can do a half turn in place while she walks around him.) I have been mulling over just what good it does to know the difference between an open and crossed relation. Let's try the 8CB. Step 1. An open relation. I (the leader) can do step 2 as a sacada on her trailing right foot. This might help lead a parada or a boleo, for instance. Step 2. An open relation. I can do step 3 as a sacada instead of the usual step 3. Step 3. A crossed relation. I can do step 4 as a sacada, but my partner and I will have trouble. (We can still do a figure beginning in a sacada, but to do it smoothly we both must be quite expert and have a lot of body control.) That's what I've figured out so far. I should mention that years ago when Fabian Salas began teaching in Los Angeles I took all his classes. The first few he discussed open/crossed and other parts of his and Naveira's system. Later he quit doing that. I suspect their system is good for thinking up new ways of doing movements, but not for improvising them while dancing. Larry de Los Angeles Play it loud with a new car stereo! Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigWK8SwmpnzXJzv0qPHhtIjTVfj8SXPz7VOCUdcXBQgonAOm/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Leading with arms or hands
Re: [Tango-L] Leading with arms or hands There is absolutely nothing wrong with using one's arms or hands to help lead a figure. What often is wrong is HOW some people use those - as a primary lead rather than a seconary helping one. There is a hierarchy of leads. Most important is the upper torso, for overall direction in which the couple is to move, and to begin turns. Arms supplement this. For instance, if the man adds a few double- or triple-steps to the basic slow-slow rhythm. He would tighten his embrace noticeably to indicate she should duplicate his rhythm change. Or loosen his embrace (or even back off from a close connection) so that she will know to continue the basic rhythm. Hands should be used sparingly, but only novices claim they should never ever be used whatsoever. An example where they are needed is in leading a parada. A usual parada opens the embrace. The man's right hand or lower arm presses against her back to stop her. His left hand pushes lightly against her right hand in opposition to the lead on her back. The two lock her into the stop. A foot lead is sometimes used with the parada. It is unneeded if the parada is properly lead. Teaching it may do more harm than good if it takes attention away from leading it properly. Foot leads are the main leads for some movements. Sacadas are an example. Though I find it better to use my mid-ankle or mid-thigh (but never one's ankle or knee - they are too hard). I can lead closer to my partner's body and don't need to look down to be sure my foot is placed properly. (Speaking of looking down. The man should not tilt his head. This throws his center of gravity forward when it would better be centered in the middle of his torso. Also, it cuts down his peripheral vision.) Larry de Los Angeles Visit the Big Apple. Click here for information on vacation packages and tickets. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifkbm80Pj3IpSwIa2nSMB8wisyuEQjJX0kqoNj4hXokgHp9g/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Boleos - back and front
Tom Stermitz wrote - Many people think boleo is a kick of the leg, when in fact the kick is a decoration of the boleo. The basic boleo is (usually) a spiral at the waist, that results in the supporting leg pivoting and the loose leg floating behind and perhaps wrap before coming around to the front. If you learn the boleo with one specific kick, then you are learning both the decoration and the boleo at the same time. This is less flexible than learning them separately. _ Thanks, Tom. As usual, clear and to the point. Thanks for your comment on boleos. You've cleared up something that has always been a bit fuzzy to me. Maybe now I can learn how to lead front boleos, which I never try anymore because I always screw it up. Of course, I have more experience leading back boleos. They can be done whether the embrace is very close or more distant. With front boleos I have to make some space for the woman to use first, either by letting her pull away from me or by doing a lean. Anyone have pointers on leading/doing front boleos? Larry de Los Angeles Discount Online Trading - Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiejgTBSIPQw1U1lJWDc01A4z0gMRRptMM9EIiRVYKbI5S9TE/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango
Carol Shepherd writes - I compare dance 'styles' to dialects of the same language. Beautiful analogy. Or maybe more, a fundamental reality. Thinking of dance as a language of the body puts a lot of matters in perspective. The special nature of tango is that it has an enormously bigger vocabulary and ways to use that vocabulary than any other social dance. Show tango is like a play. Its author is a choreographer who tries to create a work of art that pleases herself and others. Performers may do their job mechanically or try to add something special to the same moves done in the same order every night. A particular play may include sequences which are realistic or at least try to stay close to they way most people really dance. Or sequences that are fantastic, with lifts that show a woman seemingly floating through the air. The show may done on an elevated stage so more people can see. Or it may be done in closed-off pedestrian street. Or in the middle of a dance floor by guest teachers visiting a city, who may improvise the show on the spot the way Irish bards were reputed to do. Joe Grohens writes - I dance differently with different women. I find that the embrace is absolutely unique with each partner I dance with. I don't know what the embrace will be -- I explore the possibilities on the first dance. I explore them further with each successive dance... I feel the same way. More, the same woman may be very different in different times, maybe depressed early in the evening and jubilant later. Sergio Vandekier writes - At certain time and after being exposed to different types of tango you may have the chance to select the style you wish to dance. More, you will CREATE your own style that takes a little from all your experiences. You (or someone else) may consider you to be dancing exclusively nuevo tango but a closer look will show you are putting your own unique stamp on it. This is why many of us get so angry when someone points out problems or limits with a particular style. We are so identified with that style that we feel they are attacking us. As in other languages, some people have more or at least different talents to bring to their dancing. Some are more creative, or athletic, or dedicated. Some feel freer to express themselves. Some are poets on the dance floor, others poor plodders, or tongue-tied. Finally, styles are useful short-hand and convenient labels. But we must not mistake the labels for the reality. That would enslave us to abstracts, the way meteorological categories can blind us to the evanescent never-to-be-repeated glory of a sunset. Larry de Los Angeles Convert your life experience into a degree. Click now for Adult Education programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifm9SS6iXqjJaUUTyxLKC1uEB8zxuZOWXP6GDOIOdWVNvt5Y/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
Nina Pesochinsky writes - You can read the archives of the tango-l. There is a story in detail about how Susana Miller invented the term milonguero when she began teaching in the early 1990s. The reason that Puppy and others didn't say that they danced milonguero style is because they didn't know that they did!:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CmBLdEY9A Looking at the video you can clearly see that Puppy always left a space between himself and his partner. That is, he did not dance what some people call milonguero style. While I was working for NASA I was sent fairly regularly to San Francisco. I often could take a long weekend and danced and took classes. One of my favorite teaching couples were Argentine. They described their style as salon and a separation was an essential part of it. They complained about the vulgar style that some people had begun to bring back from Buenos Aires. Belly bumpers (their exact term) were not real tango dancers. They were milongueros, which to them meant drunks without jobs who spent all their times at the milongas to pick up young women. They danced close to seduce the innocent women. They especially liked foreign women because they had money and did not know better than to let a man dance so disgracefully close. They even thought that dancing close was proper! Oh, and these layabouts were too poor to own a suit, which was essential to an evening of elegant dancing. Probably because if they did have jobs they were just cab drivers or waiters or worked at the docks. They amused me but they were always kind when criticizing us and gave us useful aid in overcoming whatever problems we had. I respected them and so respected their viewpoints and always listened attentively to them. I heard echoes in them of what must have been said by the middle and upper classes in Argentina when the French made tango popular for all people. Perhaps in it was a little fear of the poor invading the elegant halls that they themselves trod in. Larry de Los Angeles Visit the Big Apple. Click here for information on vacation packages and tickets. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifkbntFIqyfVZrDjEjq2Ytz7tOHSgk2HheXNPpE82RQzs8Jk/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Those vulgar belly bumpers
Trini writes The video [showing Puppy dancing with Geraldine (Rojas?)] also takes place in a large hall with plenty of room. In a more crowded room, Puppy might dance quite differently The distance between him Geraldine was only 2 or 3 inches, so perhaps not. But a good point. I suspect most people nowadays who dance (what my Argentine teachers called) salon do close up to milonguero style when the floor is full. I do, at any rate. Speaking of milongueros (in the general sense of long-time tango dancer, NOT my friends' vulgar street-person!) I noticed in Argentina that many people danced very simply most of the evening, when the crowd was thick. Then the last hour or two, 3-5 am, when the floor emptied out, a few of them began doing very advanced stuff. Not so much showing off, as pulling out all the stops when they had the space to do so. At Lo de Celia (I think it was) at one point an immensely fat woman and a tall skinny man, both quite old, actually cleared the floor the way I had before only seen in dance movies. And I understood why. For one tanda I could only sit, my mouth decidely closed lest it hang open, and watch in awe. At the end of the tanda no one applauded. A few of the old-timers gave a sort of reserved nod, as if to say Well Done. Not a few people simply packed up and left. As did I. Anything following what I had seen would have felt lame. Larry de Los Angeles Free information on EMR systems. Click here to compare systems. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigiK1R0bRQa8MUQVdGvadfATaMf7SO69QAQGGR5e1d1wx7gO/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Going to Ireland!
Barring emergencies I will be in Ireland the last two weeks in September. Anyone here with pointers about traveling there that I (and others making similar trips) might not already have come across? Or about the Irish milongas? My schedule allows me to go to Los Bohemios del Tango in Dublin on Friday the 19th. The next day I want to go at the Smock Alley Café milonga. Then in Belfast next Saturday, the 27th, I should be able to go to The Edge restaurant for their milonga. What a terrific looking place it seems, and what a view of the river out the windows! I'm very much looking forward to going early and having dinner and enjoying the view. I'll also be in Galway, Limerick, and Cork, but not at a time when I can go to their events. The trip, incidentally, will be to gather photos and impressions and do research to fold back into the two Shapechanger Chronicles novels I'm about to start peddling via my website devoted to the series. If any of you are curious about what I was doing when I dropped out of tango-l many years ago, this is it. Oh, and I doubt if any of you will care to ever read the Shapechanger books, but for the curious the first part of the first book can found online on the site. http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Larry de Los Angeles Buried in medical files? Click here for information on an electronic system. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigiK1Wlgnu1Yruqwmo3amMKgMht9skaqHzFvWV97ppLz5PFY/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Class announcements do not go here
Announcements of classes, festivals, and such do not go in this forum. Use TANGO-A for that. You will get much more attention there. TANGO-L is for discussions. Save on Trade Schools - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigk8q9BExO082gXXlORoqmmjD6BLY6TdXCwm6UVsK7WhBjDE/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning vs. Practicing at Milongas
Shahrukh Merchant writes -- One learns elements, figures and techniques at classes, but one learns _how to dance_ at the Milongas. Exactly. Every time you do a movement, whether in a class, practica, or milonga, you are practicing. But the focus is different depending on the context. In a class you often are working on individual steps - preparing to do one, doing it with poise and precision, and following up. Or you are working on short combinations of steps. Or (now less often than when tango was new to non-Argentines) longer figures. In a practica you are dancing to a piece of music, but the focus of you and your partner is in putting together what you learned in (often the immediately preceding) class. The focus is still on technique. In a milonga you are practicing the emotional and esthetic side of dancing. Practicing enjoying the physical and emotional closeness with your partner, feeling emotionally (not just hearing physically) the music, and perhaps most of all having fun. It might seem as if people should not need to practice having fun. But I imagine everyone has seen plenty of people who obviously need it. They are the ones with grim faces, the ones who insist on their partner's being perfect. Who do not realize that mistakes are opportunities to practice recovering from errors, and sometimes the doorway to discovering a new way to do something. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com/ Home prices too high? Click here for interest only loans to buy the home of your dreams. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiekSy9XHb9as3cq6fWxnl3V6anKdpfas3v3IXOB2S5cWbtFg/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cadencia y ritmo
In Spanish as every other language the same word can have several meanings. Salida means exit, but also beginning. The second meaning comes from the first - you begin a voyage by leaving a house or train station or the sidelines of a dance floor. So with cadencia. One meaning is a general one, moving to the music. Beat and rhythm, compas and ritmo, are part of this movement. They have two different meanings. The beat is the underlying pulse of the music, which generally stays the same for the entire piece of music. Or stays the same for passages of the music. D'Arienzo (el rey del compas) was known for his audible steady beat, but also experimented with changing tempo in different parts of a piece. Rhythm builds on the beat but is not captive to it. The basic rhythm of the Argentine tango is slow-slow - ONE two Three four, where one steps on the major beats (the 1st and 3rd). This is the natural rhythm of walking. This is why a couple can learn to dance the tango (in a very simple way) in a half-hour or so. They already have most of the skills they need to have fun, to really dance rather than robotically do figures. But much of the power of tango is that traditionally dancers are allowed to depart from the basic rhythm for shorter or longer periods of time, then come back to it. The leader can replace a slow step with double, triple, or even faster steps. If he firms up his embrace his partner knows to keep pace with him. If he relaxes it she knows to keep to the basic rhythm. Thus tango can be primally simple or sophisticatedly complex. What is the specific meaning of cadencia? Most of my years (almost twenty) of dancing tango it meant stepping in place, as the military do when marching in place, keeping the cadence. Some people (including native Spanish speakers) use it to mean doing rock steps. Which goes to show that language is not produced by robots, but by changeable, error-prone, humans. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com/ Find loans exclusively for members of our military. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iihAxo5TbRAjHnyzlk8Yglrwq7lvOhxCrLOo6vb3KWwIEaMsK/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint
This same delay in the start of dancing occurs in the danzon. The introduction, or about the first 16 measures, are not danced. When the introduction is then repeated during the music, the dancers stop again. Danzon originated in Cuba from a French contradance by way of Haiti. If you believe that the danzon and tango have similar roots (both are based on the habanera), this delayed start would indicate some commonality. The danzon is still danced in Cuba and Mexico, particularly Veracruz and Mexico City. Original Message: - From: Jack Dylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:43:13 -0700 (PDT) To: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? Someone told me it was so that the dancers could hear the music before starting to dance but, IMO, that just doesn't ring true.. Firstly, they're chatting, not listening and, secondly, the 5 seconds to make the embrace is surely enough to 'hear' the music. Of course, I might be missing something and I'd appreciate any enlightenment on the reason for this tradition in Buenos Aires. I don't think it happens in other partner dances. Jack - Original Message From: Dubravko Kakarigi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For example, I very much dislike the 20-30 second standing around on the floor and talking as the music starts as it is common in many milongas in Buenos Aires. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video)
Jean-Pierre Sighé writes in the following link --- The Cruzada MUST be lead and not just assumed. http://www.tangomagdalena.com/Newsletters/vol12_august08.html Actually ALL parts of a volcada combination must be lead. The volcada is just the extreme lean. Lean + amague/front boleo + cruzada is a popular combination, but it's only one of many that start with the lean. The dibujo (that famous arc on the floor) during the amague/front boleo is an adorno. Like all women's adornos it is the woman's option to do it or not. If the man is hurrying the combination she will likely leave it off. The video accompanying Sighé's text is one of the best YouTube videos of several dozen I've seen which shows lots of volcada combinations, not only because of its video quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4n81J4zkyc The whole dance is a good example of how to dance with a lady new to a man. The very first volcada, near the beginning, is just a lean. She is tipped off balance, with weight forward of her toes, making it a true volcada. (The word comes from volcar - to upset, overturn, tip over or knock over.) And it is only a slight lean. This way the leader can tell if his partner can and will do a lean, rather than panicking and stepping forward with her free foot to regain her balance. Later on he does a more extreme lean but adds a zarandeo (shake, a twisting around the vertical axis). She adorns this by lifting her free foot so that she does almost a boleo to the left and the right. Another good example of a couple testing their mutual body language. There are many other volcada combinations, including a carousel, in the rest of the video. Good selection, Jean-Pierre Larry de Los Angeles Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieke7kEnwQOFwALxT1s6avyrvAdM0MB9xFBgw5j67zoCxDvM/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught
My reaction to Laurie's statement was different than that of some on this list. I simply took it as a statement of fact, acknowledging that women are active participants in a dance, not puppets. Most of the time they seek to relax into the direction the leader supplies, but IN AN EMERGENCY it is not only their right but their duty to ignore or resist a lead. For instance, if to follow it would cause me to crash into someone. Or to hurt her. (Some time back a favorite partner resisted doing boleos and ochos, explaining that she had hurt her back recently.) Most often a woman ignores a lead because she does not understand it. Possibly she's never learned the proper response. But it could also be because I was not clear in my lead. Before guys get all huffy and swear never to dance with someone again they should ask themselves if her lack of response or resistance is THEIR fault. Larry de Los Angeles Free information on Trade Schools. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigk8ruSDlwiEQxeDYgcQk9JBmxXFZHPrVLpjSdHPSqj02gp0/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] How to initiate lean
The answer to this question is: all of the above! Both methods mentioned so far work: suspension and placing a woman's free foot behind her supporting foot with a slight twist of the leader's upper body as if about to lead a backward ocho or a back boleo. A third tactic (which no one has yet mentioned) is to lead the volcada (or any other action) slowly. Or at least not to hurry it. It takes humans at least 1/4 second to react to anything, and usually much closer to 1/2 second. A leader can't act as if his partner is a robot with millisecond response times. A fourth tactic is to judge your partner's response. Does it seem as if she knows what you are requesting? Or is she totally bewildered and maybe panicked by what you are asking? Partner dancing is like any form of communication. One should use such methods as good grammar and emphasis and re-phrasing a request so one speaks clearly. And one should listen to one's listeners to be sure they understood you. Larry de Los Angeles Click for free quote on refinancing your mortgage. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifTCL4Cb94Azh0SNOBA6pR7FCeSOVGlmc6r5WJ0uC2A33OUK/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Best time to visit Buenos Aires
I've decided to spend a month (or I hope two) in Buenos Aires. When is the best time of year to go? Just judging from weather.com it seems that mid-summer, January and February, is the worst time, especially for tango lovers. I have heard that many milongas do not have air conditioning, or do not turn it on. Mid-winter, June and July, don't seem to be a bad time. The average temperature is from high-40s to high-50s and there's not much rain during that time. April and November seem like the best time to go, with temps averaging from 60 to mid-70s, and some rain but not a lot or often. What do you BsAs residents or frequent travelers say? Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you think. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iigjRkR7DcVILhB2bmBvv095MJAANjmVZkYqiS49imfQ5nL14/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] (over)explained tango
Nina Pesochinsky wrote --- So what is the value of an over-explained tango? One or two people seemed to take this as a put-down of some sort. I thought it funny: a clever play on the words that David Thorn had just used, when he was talking about an over-turned ocho (one that turns more than 180 degrees) forced on him by a lady who stepped closer to him on the second half of the ocho than he was expecting. Or, reading her later response, I wondered if it was a question as well. As in What is the fuss all about? Why are you spending so many words on an evanescent experience? OK. I'll answer the question. As often happens, there are several forces working in the long detailed analyses of various subjects such as those you sometimes see on this list. Why (over)explain? For some people it's simply fun, a sort of game. For others, it's an attempt to help others on a subject they have mastered. Which often has the side benefit that the explanations force they themselves to re-think the subject, and to see it in a new (hopefully clearer!) light. For some it's the second part of that process, the clarifying of a subject to themselves, that is the reason for a discussion. And finally explaining can also be exhibitionism - look at me aren't I clever! In other venues I've seen or heard people argue that explaining psychological phenomena is either useless or destroys the phenomena being discussed. For instance, they urge you not to discuss love. Or enjoyment of a sunset. Or the almost (or actually) transcendent experience of a dance. What they don't understand is that left-brain analytical and right-brain intuitive thinking are not enemies, any more than our left arms and hands are enemies of our right arms and hands. They work together - or should. A person with a strong left arm/brain AND a strong right arm/brain is MUCH more effective than if they must fumble along using one side or the other. The best scientists and engineers are not only technically expert but also very creative. This often shows up in their hobbies, such as painting or playing or even composing music - and dancing. And the best artists are invariably experts in the technical side of their art. Painters, for instance, typically have exhaustively studied such subjects as perspective and shadows and the effects several colors in a scene will synergistically effect the experience of the viewer. They will spend hours trying out a new set of paintbrushes and paints, learning their idiosyncracies. They may endlessly paint the same scene over and over again with tiny variations, and spend much thought on why some variations succeed or fail. So it is with dance. There are stages or phases to becoming good, and to having those transcendent experiences. One is learning the very basics, such as how to place one's foot when stepping: heel, toe, and midsole, which leads when, how much force to use, how to move the body from station to station of a position. Which is both a physical and an intellectual process. These activities you do in classes and practicas. Then you revisit those basics, but this time in the midst of a dance, when the virtue of all that practice and analysis pays off - by letting your body and your subconscious handle the details, letting you forget the basics, while your consciousness floats upon and above those earthly concerns. And you simply DO. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click to find out what your future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieOol4Tm1VvpgUg7HuDWEgwls3semkJx6J7xgO2nAZylv7W6/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Lead and follow
[part 2 of Lead and follow] (2) A man must know very clearly what he wants his partner to do. The certainty alone gives a woman the confidence to surrender her will to his. But his knowledge will also communicate details of his desire to her in a dozen subtle ways, many of which he is not conscious. He does not need to know all the details of HOW she executes his request. That is her job. He only needs to know WHAT he wants. It does help, however, to have practiced the woman's part and know some of what she does. This helps him better to judge if he should make a request, or if he should give her more time for some movements. When learning advanced and complicated movements often men will focus most on their own part. But if he focuses on her's instead his part will become clearer, because it is determined by what he wants her to do. Also sometimes he may discover more than one way to do his part of the movement. A woman enters into an unspoken contract when she accepts an embrace not to undermine a man's confidence, which for most of us is more fragile than we like to admit. Only in an emergency should she refuse a request, and the time to discuss technique is in a class, not at a milonga, or at least not on the dance floor. A leader should be willing, even eager, to risk (harmless) mistakes. It's part of being a leader, to adventure. But it's also part of leading to admit to it when one fails - including asking partners to do something they cannot do, either because it is beyond their skill level or because (perhaps) they are too tired to respond properly. There are two aspects of making mistakes I don't recall ever hearing/reading about. They build the leader's skill at recovering from errors - which happen no matter how careful and skilled a couple are. Also, in recovering, sometimes we discover/invent a new step. (1) Puppy Costello supposedly said Figures are easy; walking is hard. It's equally true that the seemingly simple embrace is hard, and hides many subtleties. The embrace is a pleasure in its own right, and for many part of the reward for dancing. It is also the voice we use to communicate our desires, and for more than just the immediate desires to move in ways that execute figures and communicate how well we can or can't do them. Learning how to embrace well, and practicing to make the embrace better, is crucial to dancing, especially in tango where potentially each individual step may be lead. We who do tango are lucky that pauses are part of the dance's vocabulary. I like to start each dance with a zarandeo, a gentle left- right twisting of our bodies. This means we can begin dancing even though we move our feet not at all. We can also begin dancing by doing cadencias, named after the way soldiers keep the cadence when stopped by stepping in place. The zarandeo and cadencia allow us to define then refine our embrace before trying to walk and stay synchronized. Once moving it is a good idea to dance very simply so we can focus on getting acquainted with our partner. The better we know our partner the sooner we can graduate to more elaborate moves. Even with long-time and favorite partners, however, we should not skimp on getting acquainted. Each of us is more than one person. The depressed or enthusiastic person at the beginning of the evening may change so that at it's end we are exhilarated or weary and a very different person to dance with. And thus we scratch the surface of leading and following. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click for free information on accounting careers, $150 hour potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieWhxIA68hetHdJF14okP8CVxrYQG9fHcyoL0Q0yNNGC78ps/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Is the Milonga going Military?
The milonga Mario cites http://youtube.com/watch?v=d70Zz7j2m90 is an example of different people perceiving the same activity in very different ways. I thought it charming and expressive. It is also an example of how you might dance in the literally shoulder- to-shoulder very-popular milongas of Buenos Aires. Many short steps that don't move the couple very far very fast, circular movements to stay in place, but always moving in la pista, the track or flow of the dance. Larry de Los Angeles happy in Portland at their tango festival Start Email Marketing - fast, affordable, and measurable. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieUUUQkJdkfcH5JiGv9uL15mb4wwKCR5Gv5pO9HLvqADfTcG/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] What to do when teh floor is tight
I went to the welcome milonga held here in Portland Oregon at the Tango Fest. There were several hundred people so, despite the large floor, the crowd was tight. Not as much as the most popular milongas in Buenos Aires, but not much looser. Which brings up the question - what can you do to make a dance interesting when the floor is that tight? Wow! Its later than I tht. Time to go to tonight's milonga! Larry de Los Angeles happy in Portland Or Someone in your city has the hots f Click here to find out who! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/JKFkuJNztxSzoelZv3dxDr6HxrIlv9zLo9OFCxHv9v3z6fLMc8hLiy/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Variations in Tango Styles
Barbara Garvey, another voice of clarity and common sense in this forum, pointed out something very important in the examples of tango nuevo given by Sergio. Chicho and Fabian dance very differently even though both were supposedly dancing the same tango style. Chicho, for that matter, seems to have several styles depending on the music. In one of Sergio's examples I would not have recognized the style as tango nuevo. Chicho stays fairly close to Claudia and does not do or lead anything very flashy. Their dancing is simple and a bit slow, perfectly suiting the music which is languorous and sadly nostalgic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5Bxtck3Uw Elsewhere on YouTube you can see that Gustavo Naveira has his own distinct style. As does Sebastian Arce, who with his partner Mariana Montes are my favorites among the tango nuevo dancers. What is true among tango-nuevo dancers is true for other tango styles. Pepito Avellaneda and Puppy Castello, for instance, were both traditional style dancers. But their personal styles were quite individual. And they would have been highly pissed if anyone claimed they were clones of each other. Classification systems are very useful. They simplify the confusing complexity of the universe, help point to similarities that might be lost in an undifferentiated mental universe, give you a road map in your studies of tango. Each tango style is a distinct vocabulary, a menu of movements and ways of moving, a palette of colors and textures. From each style dancers can choose to use (or ignore) some idioms/actions/colors when they dance. Just as Chicho chose to ignore many of the possibilities that tango nuevo offers so that he and Claudia could interpret the slow sad song they danced to. So can you, as you mature in your adventuring in the wilderness of tango, also choose. And choose not just parts of one style of dancing. You do not have to be a traditional/nuevo/milonguero/canyengue dancer. But a dancer of tango in all its rainbow of possibilities. True, it will take all your life to explore those possibilities. But is that sad? Or grand? Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Love Graphic Design? Find a school near you. Click Now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv7SDbcMDezIUWILclfNLasSerOsikwIr60DfKC9Hy8GI7Pk/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The closest-to-perfect tango couple
Boy, you guys are tough! The performance by Pablo Rodriguez Noelia Hurtado in Zagreb down-thumbed because of their arm and head positions. Whew! Glad there are no videos of ME dancing. I wonder. Are there ANY couples these critics consider near perfect? What about the rest of you? Who would you say comes the closest to your ideal? And how about a video link and a comment or two about the dancing so the rest of us will know what you are referring to? Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click here to find the right business program for you and take your career to the next level. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbttno07G2EUzkqqtD98hcTli9Dkyg3doVuZ0iSjps12zSaHY/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] under-turned and over-turned ochos
The year after Fabian Salas was last here in L.A. Chicho Frumboli came here several times. One of his classes covered under-turned and over-turned ochos. Up to then, despite having maybe three dozen teachers face-to-face (though most just for a few hours) and seen lots of videos, ochos just meant two 180-degree turns after another that returned the dancer to (usually her) starting position. Frumboli explained that there is a whole family of figures with pivots in them. under-turned ochos Suppose instead of two 180-degree turns the man leads two 90-degree turns. They produce a zig-zag figure that travels (usually) along the line of dance. He called these under-turned ochos. So the man, instead of standing in the same spot to lead the ocho, must travel with the woman. If he leads her to step backward he has to step forward. They mirror each other. Or if he leads her to step forward, doing under-turned forward ochos, he has to step backward. So he should first lead the two of them into a half-turn to remain moving along the line of dance. over-turned ochos Leading ochos where the woman does greater than 180-degree pivots creates over-turned ochos. If her pivot is 270 degrees (a 3/4 turn) or 360 degrees (a full turn) the leader may only want her to do a single pivoting step, not two the way one does the normal ocho. But such is possible, just not easy. And the man is going to have to do some movement from his starting spot as with zig-zags. sideways ochos If the man leads his partner to pivot and step across behind (or in front) of her supporting foot he can lead ochos to the left and right instead of along (or opposite) the line of dance. grapevines/braids/cadenas If you take the half a forward ocho and half a backward ocho and stick them together (along with, perhaps, other individual steps), what do you get? Several possibilities. Among them is the cadena, which I first encounted in a modern dance class under the name of the braid, and in a jazz dance class as a grapevine. It might be of this pattern: side, to the side crossing behind, side, to the side crossing in front, and repeat. The man typically mirrors his partner. When she steps side crossing behind he steps side crossing in front. Or he can duplicate her step, so both are crossing behind at the same time. Another possibility: a man can lead the cadena so the woman makes a box or hexagon or octagon around the man while he stands in the same spot, turning to remain facing her. This is the molinete (wheel), where he is the hub and she the rim. colgadas Further development of these ideas leads to the colgada, where the two partners lean away from each other and the woman spins on one foot while the man steps from side to side on each side of her supporting foot. With her free foot she can do several kinds of adornos, most often just a long kick back that leaves her free leg extended until he stops the spin, maybe after just a half-turn or maybe after several complete turns. Nuevo? Or not? I don't know if all these possibilities can really be included under the umbrella of nuevo tango. I seem to recall seeing a few of these combinations before Naveira and Salas began widely teaching after The Tango Lesson made them well known. But it was a revelation to me that the combinations were all related. And significant historically perhaps that it was teachers identified by others (but not by themselves) as nuevo tango teachers who taught these classes. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu0vDjD44M3IT9Ix8c79y1E2t82pRWmTdbhOxKLVNBVVLzrE/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] How tango evolves
Lois Donnay wrote - I am currently in Buenos Aires, and am seeing more and more tango performances in the milonga that have less and less Argentine tango in them, and more Dancing with the Stars. Completely choreoghraphed, lots of lifts, less musicality __ It sounds to me as if you are confusing performances with social dancing. Of course performers are going to do fancy stuff you couldn't safely do in the middle of social dancing in the often quite crowded popular milongas. Lots of people outside Argentina seem to believe that true milongueros only do social dancing. Actually it's only recently that professional dancers trained in ballet, jazz dance, and so on came to dominate tango shows. Look at videos of movies and shows filmed in the 30s through 50s and you'll see people like El Cachafaz and Antonio Todaro performing. For that matter you can still see real authentic tango dancers of advanced years perform. Only not on the stage to a paying audience. Wait till the very last hour of almost any milonga, when over half of the attendees have gone home and the floor opens up. You may well see some aged couple take the floor who you have not noticed earlier because they blended so smoothly into the flow of the dance. And do the most amazing stuff - some of it which pro dancers in their twenties might struggle to do. Or who take mental notes and incorporate the older couples' moves into their stage shows. Also you will see these milongueros and milongueras breaking the rules that they themselves may teach in classes - because many of the rules are there to protect other people on tight floors, but unneeded in a performance. Another misconception about milongueros is that they always dance socially in some solemn, super-serious way. Some of them have a sense of humor and a playful approach to dancing that only people who have mastered the dance can match. To stereotype them as saints or clones or robotic copies of each other is to deny them of their humanity, and under the cover of respect commit the worst disrespect. Just as disrespectful is to stereotype milongueros and milongueras as having minds closed to change. Some are stick-in-the-muds, of course. But some of them have a lively interest in anything new. Most they may (and probably rightly) dismiss for any of several reasons. But they may also try out innovations and (rarely) even add some to their repertoire. __ Another confusion of performance with social dance comes from many of the people in this and other tango discussion forums. This is to describe tango nuevo as being a certain way from observing (likely just a few) performances live or on videos. This is really foolish. I've had the chance to observe closely (among others) Fabian Salas and Chicho Frumboli when they are dancing socially. On tight dance floors they commit none of the nuevo crimes ascribed to them. And if they do show moves they modify them to suit the tightness of the floor, and the music being played. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Get educated. Click here for Adult Education programs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu9iz1sOhFXPlEdvgvHrugCtYFUXr1HxMcDjP2f0kFvPaqRM/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] How tango evolves
Charles wrote - [Observing Chicho] for a number of years now ... ten years ago. If there was any open space at all he would be flying around the room passing people, dodging in and out, spinning like a washing machine. __ My observations were in 2003 and 2004. I saw none of what you describe. Maybe he was on a sugar high when you saw him! Or maybe he knew better and acted the asshole. I don't know or care. I've seen the same careless behavior by plenty of people who were not remotely nuevo dancers. Here are a couple of dancers often labeled nuevo who are performing for an audience, but illustrating (whether they meant to or not) how to dance compactly yet with poetry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGg5D2Tlsc To my ear they beautifully interpreted the slow nostalgic music (Poema?). They stayed in a tight embrace the entire dance, only loosening up two or three times. They made good use of pauses, flirting with tiny little foot flourishes, changes of direction, rock steps, and the like. I think only once or twice did anyone's feet move very far from the shadow of the embrace. When the woman did boleos or amagues they were to the front and close to her body. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5Bxtck3Uw Pretty much the same as the first couple. This, incidentally, is Chicho in 2003, during the two years on which he visited L.A. a half dozen times and during which I took several lessons from him. He went to milongas about a dozen times during those two years which I attended. Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbut0gB0ltcptfVS94Xd2BFBn425zD3kURVwO53jBrHjJnQ1E/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Milongas en Buenos Aires
Charles wrote - Last time I was [in Buenos Aires] (eight months ago) I noticed that crowds and styles varied from night to night, even at the same location, according to who was the DJ/sponsor. __ Excellent point. The same location often hosts several different milongas, each with a different set of organizers and DJs. Each milonga draws different crowds, who also differ according to whether the milonga is held on weekdays or weekends. An example of a location is Salon Canning. It is in the SOHO area of Palermo, which is two-three miles west and north of the downtown area of the city of Buenos Aires, a 10-mile wide roughly octagonal part of the BsAs megaplex. SOHO is an arty mini-barrio with lots of restaurants and small shops. Canning is also within one to two blocks of two other milonga locations (Club Villa Malcolm, Asociacion Armenia) and eight blocks from Club Fulgor. Canning has a long history and was recently renovated. It is large, has a high ceiling (good for dissipating cigarette smoke), a beautiful floor, a big bar and snack area that (I believe) can deliver a full meal, and beautiful photos on the wall, one a very large mural. Here are some pictures and a video that showcases Canning. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedonna/295837774/ - shot including mural http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedonna/295837536/ - shot of bar http://www.flickr.com/photos/aladorada/29008690/in/photostream/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzh-accjq1M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRnzRXNXgJk Canning hosts two milongas: A Puro Tango (three nights a week) and Parakultural (four). Even though the last has the same organizers, the milongas are not identical. Parakultural Mina, for instance, often has live bands such as Color Tango Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Click here to discover unbeatable cruise deals. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu8D0cx72rR1wLl491tzkjyqs58bB4INiuNHYu3E7QpejqjI/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] How tango evolves
Jack Dylan writes --- this is ... my opinion [only] on his dancing; Chicho might well be a great teacher and choreographer. I found him a middling teacher (of course he MIGHT have improved since 2003/4). A lady friend took one class and said never again. His focus, she said, was just on the men's part and totally ignored women's. I think he's a brilliant choreographer, but obviously his stuff is not to everyone's taste. And his choreography depends on his partner. His current one seems a bit limited, but that might be because she does not assert herself. What he did with Eugenia Parilla I loved, but I suspect she pushed to get in neat stuff that showcased her, as in the following video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyZq6sOLI0g ___ I'm a fan of nuevo tango and have taken a lot of classes in it, but some people have greatly exagerated its importance today and in the future. I think it ultimately will have a definite but only a small part in the continued evolution of tango. The most important contribution to tango that Naveira and Salas provided is a way to look at traditional tango less as complex steps and more as simple movements which could be combined in different ways. But they aren't the only ones who contributed to this movement toward deconstruction (destruction + reconstruction). Some people in this and other tango forums have identified a nuevo style of dancing and listed aspects of it. Among those is a distant embrace which gives more freedom for the dancers to do fancy stuff. But this is true for most show dance routines, and was around long before Naveira and Salas started their deconstruction efforts. Most of the traveling teachers I and many other learned from in the early 90s were professional dancers from shows such as Forever Tango and Tango por Dos who taught this embrace. For that matter, a number of social dance teachers from Argentina teach a distant embrace. One couple I took classes from in the early 90s, for instance, spoke contempuously of the belly bumper (their words) embrace, associating it with vulgar street dancers. Some of the steps associated with tango nuevo also have been around for a long time before its advent. The volcada, for instance, is just a fashionably newer name for the extreme lean, which has been around for a long time as part of several traditional show and social figures such as the carousel. Other movements associated with nuevo are natural extensions of traditional figures. The colgada, for instance, is what you get when you do a parada where the woman does a half back-ocho before she's stopped. But the man leads her to continue her spin beyond 180 degrees to 270, 360, or even several complete turns. (Larry briskly brushes his hands together and mutters dismissively So much for nuevo.) Larry de Los Angeles http://shapechangers.wordpress.com Paying too much for your business phone system? Click here to compare systems from top companies. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbwT01yK9ZMSoctrIzW5xpfet0NgERTW2haWCvoepdBXHimSe/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
