Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
Thanks for the comments on tandas. I don't find them surprising. Huck, I totally agree that we dont cater to beginners, that we generally hold the codigos more important than any compromise. As you said, our approach is to favor those with (ten) years of experience. As far as asking beginners to dance with only one or two songs left in a tanda, I agree that its an excellent idea. Unfortunately, beginner men generally don't have an opportunity to ask in the middle of a tanda. But from past comments from women on this list and what Ive seen and heard first hand, in reality I dont think they are being asked late in a tanda very much. I hope you are one that practices it regularly. As far as playing anything other than tandas having to be awful, Im less inclined to go along. I go to other types of dances with DJed music. Its generally played with some kind of organization and is rarely, to use your term, played willy-nilly. It is not played in strict 4 song sequences without partner changes in between. Also, it sounds like the Finns use a somewhat different structure, a modified tanda of only 2 songs with encouraged (mandatory?) changes between. While their style of tango is certainly not the traditional Argentine tango, it certainly appears to have achieved immense popularity there. That returns me to my original question, that perhaps we believe that the codigos are in fact more important, perhaps even essential, to Argentine tango than any compromise that could be made for increased accessibility. What impact do we think this might have on the future of Argentine tango? Do we think that there will always be those few who get it and will be willing to put in the years? No flames please. Im not exactly sure where Im at myself on these questions. I seriously dont know the answers and am offering this only for consideration. mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
This may be of interest. I recently attended two milongas in Buenos Aires with Los Reyes del Tango playing live - not the whole evening but they played for about two hours in total (it was great, by the way - their live performance is much, much better than their CDs). And while they played, there were no tandas, they just played streight through with one large break during which two or three CD-powered tandas were danced. While I loved dancing to (good) live music, I prefer tanda system especially where I am new and do no know the dancers in which case I usually ask to dance the last song of the tanda whereby we both do not have to suffer through more than one song if things just do not work for us. BTW, Los Reyes played just one milonga in the whole set, from what I can remember. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:24:19 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: BTW, Los Reyes played just one milonga in the whole set, from what I can remember. My kind of musicians. :-) Floyd Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
There was a time, very early in tango history (1880 - 1920) when tango was danced in pirigundines also called academias. These places were situated in the periphery of the city and required special permits from the City hall to function. Pirigundines continued to function till not too long ago although with different characteristics from the original ones. Those places, where music was played and hired women were available to dance with, were patronized by lonely males in search of fun and perhaps some romance. They normally were required to buy a ticket called lata (tin), because they were made of tin. Those tichets allowed the male to dance a set number of tangos, milongas or valses, or a mixture of them. For example: three tangos, one milonga and one vals. The male client gave the ticket to the female dancer and started dancing with her. The Cortina a music different from tango, announced the end of the set or tanda. Couples separated. To dance another tanda another ticket had to be given to the lady. This sequence continued during the evening till two or three in the morning. There are expresions in our coloquial language of Buenos Aires that refer to certain elements of those days. Tener la lata (to hold the tin) : It means to wait a long time. Fui al medico y tuve una lata the una hora (I went to the doctor and had to wait for one hour). This is a reference to the time when a man had to wait for the lady , tin in hand, till she became available to dance with him. He would say then tuve la lata for a long time till I could dance with her. Best Wishes, Sergio Mar del Plata - Argentina Buenos Aires del '80 era una gran aldea, donde había academias y teatros, únicos lugares donde se podía bailar o ver bailar mientras se actuaba. Las academias, también llamadas pirigundines, contaban con mujeres contratadas y eran sitios que requerían una autorización de la autoridad para funcionar. Se encontraban en el suburbio y en zonas alejadas del centro de la ciudad. El tango en el prostíbulo. El lugar habitual del tango ligado desde su origen a la danza y a su desarrollo musical, fué el burdel. En sus patios, en las amplias antesalas y como complemento de la actividad principal de la casa, las pupilas tenían por costumbre bailar con la clientela. _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your fix. http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
This is very interesting and finally tandas make sense. We of course had taxi dancers and taxi dance halls here in the US from the 20's to the 50's -- but the men got only one dance per ticket. Sergio Vandekier wrote: There was a time, very early in tango history (1880 - 1920) when tango was danced in pirigundines also called academias. These places were situated in the periphery of the city and required special permits from the City hall to function. Pirigundines continued to function till not too long ago although with different characteristics from the original ones. Those places, where music was played and hired women were available to dance with, were patronized by lonely males in search of fun and perhaps some romance. They normally were required to buy a ticket called lata (tin), because they were made of tin. Those tichets allowed the male to dance a set number of tangos, milongas or valses, or a mixture of them. For example: three tangos, one milonga and one vals. The male client gave the ticket to the female dancer and started dancing with her. The Cortina a music different from tango, announced the end of the set or tanda. Couples separated. To dance another tanda another ticket had to be given to the lady. This sequence continued during the evening till two or three in the morning. There are expresions in our coloquial language of Buenos Aires that refer to certain elements of those days. Tener la lata (to hold the tin) : It means to wait a long time. Fui al medico y tuve una lata the una hora (I went to the doctor and had to wait for one hour). This is a reference to the time when a man had to wait for the lady , tin in hand, till she became available to dance with him. He would say then tuve la lata for a long time till I could dance with her. Best Wishes, Sergio Mar del Plata - Argentina -- Carol Ruth Shepherd Arborlaw PLC Ann Arbor MI USA 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f Arborlaw - a legal blog for entrepreneurs and small business http://arborlaw.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I've always been a little ambivalent on the tanda structure and am probably even more so now, understanding that it is actually an anachronism. The tanda structure is not an anachronism. Like other Argentine codigos, it evolved over time to what it is today because it serves a very useful purpose. Milongas (I hesitate to even use the word) without tandas, where the so-called DJ just plays any old selection after another, a tango here, a waltz there, a D'Arienzo here, a Pugliese there, willy-nilly, are AWFUL. On the other hand, I have no problem observing the tanda as an expression of the culture, The tanda structure is not observed as a gratuitous expression of culture. It is observed because tandas work, on so many levels. but as others have noted, I do believe that tandas work against the integration of beginners. Life does not revolve around catering to beginners: Just ask any major league baseball rookie. But go on. Given tandas, experienced dancers who might dance with a beginner for one song instead avoid them altogether rather than getting stuck with them for four dances ?!? So ask the beginner to dance when there are only one or two songs left in the tanda. (exceptions are of course made for attractive young women!). Most of us aren't that pathetically desperate. As a result, many beginners find the milonga experience frustrating. So let's ditch codigos finely honed over years of evolution so beginners won't be frustrated, as life revolves around catering to people with ten weeks invested in something in favor of those with ten years, right? Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
I couldn't find this discussed in the archives and am very curious: Back in the golden age, when you danced the entire night to one Orquesta Tipica, did they play 3 or 4 songs and then some rock 'n roll (or whatever)?? What was a night of tango like back then?? Where did the tanda system as we know it come from? Did they change partners every song? Or never? I am utterly clueless. Cheers, D. David Thorn _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your fix. http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
If the couple is new, and I'll assume so for the purposes of Tango etiquette described below..., the lady looks around the room for a leader she would like to dance with... If a leader sees a lady looking his way, and he would like to ask her to dance, they do a cabaceo... He nods his head while their eyes are locked., and she nods her's in return... The signal means it is ok for him to approach her. And as he does, she will usually rise and take a few steps to meet him part way. And they dance... And because it is a social dance where so many strangers dance with each other.., there needs to be a few guidelines to insure proper behaviour.. So... Tandas are groups of Tango tunes separated by Cortinas.., the 'rock 'n roll' you mentioned. Tandas run from 3 to 5 tunes, usually, and a couple usually stays together until they end. Tandas usually are all the same artist or at least the style of Tango. There are Biagi tandas, DiSarli tandas, Milonga tandas and Vals tandas, etc. Besides there just being a decent chance to dance.., there is a general understanding that a follower needs at least three tunes to learn a new leader's 'quirks' so to speak... :-)So it seems the theory is that she at least be given a chance to get to know him, before needing to part again. Not to mention of course that once a leader finds the music he's comfortable with, and the eye of a new lady he'd like to dance with, it wouldn't be nice to have the music changed out from under him while he's with her... When Tandas end, it is customary for both individuals to return to their *own* seats.It's basically a requirement that they do so. So that no leader can 'control' a follower for any longer than she knew she was committing to with the cabaceo... After they are both seated again, the leader may try to obtain her eyes again.., with another cabaceo, and she may be looking for him to do so. Or having enough of him she may also refuse to look his way... Floyd On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:36:36 -0600, you wrote: I couldn't find this discussed in the archives and am very curious: Back in the golden age, when you danced the entire night to one Orquesta Tipica, did they play 3 or 4 songs and then some rock 'n roll (or whatever)?? What was a night of tango like back then?? Where did the tanda system as we know it come from? Did they change partners every song? Or never? I am utterly clueless. Cheers, D. David Thorn _ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your fix. http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
I don't think you answered David's question. . . What you describe (quite nicely) is how the tanda system works now. But I believe the question was: what about in the beginning, when they presumably didn't have Biagi and DiSarli and who-knows-what-else all in one night, but rather had just one orchestra playing for them live? What was it like THEN? -Emily Floyd Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . So... Tandas are groups of Tango tunes separated by Cortinas.., the 'rock 'n roll' you mentioned. Tandas run from 3 to 5 tunes, usually, and a couple usually stays together until they end. Tandas usually are all the same artist or at least the style of Tango. There are Biagi tandas, DiSarli tandas, Milonga tandas and Vals tandas, etc. Besides there just being a decent chance to dance.., there is a general understanding that a follower needs at least three tunes to learn a new leader's 'quirks' so to speak... :-)So it seems the theory is that she at least be given a chance to get to know him, before needing to part again. . . . On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:36:36 -0600, David wrote: I couldn't find this discussed in the archives and am very curious: Back in the golden age, when you danced the entire night to one Orquesta Tipica, did they play 3 or 4 songs and then some rock 'n roll (or whatever)?? What was a night of tango like back then?? Where did the tanda system as we know it come from? Did they change partners every song? Or never? I am utterly clueless. Cheers, D. David Thorn - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Origin of Tandas
Yes... It looks like I misread that he didn't understand them at all 'now' as well.. But I did read Golden Age..., roughly from the mid 30's through to the mid 50's. And both DiSarli and Biagi as well as DiArenzo, Canaro, et al, were playing live and of course making recordings too at that time. I'm sorry I didn't exactly say it, but I believe the tanda, cortina, cabaceo, etc were all in place at that time.. It is how how people conducted themselves on the floor then too. The reasons being as I describe them... To the best of my knowledge. I'm sure they were worked out way before the Golden Age. But I wouldn't know exactly 'where and when' The cabaceo probably came to be used even before there was Tango. But if actual origination dates for tanda and cortina are known, it's not by me. Anyone else care to offer up those details? Btw... Another term I have read is Idiota.An (idiot) would be someone who tries to dance to a cortina.:-) Hugs... Floyd On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:54:36 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I don't think you answered David's question. . . What you describe (quite nicely) is how the tanda system works now. But I believe the question was: what about in the beginning, when they presumably didn't have Biagi and DiSarli and who-knows-what-else all in one night, but rather had just one orchestra playing for them live? What was it like THEN? -Emily Floyd Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . So... Tandas are groups of Tango tunes separated by Cortinas.., the 'rock 'n roll' you mentioned. Tandas run from 3 to 5 tunes, usually, and a couple usually stays together until they end. Tandas usually are all the same artist or at least the style of Tango. There are Biagi tandas, DiSarli tandas, Milonga tandas and Vals tandas, etc. Besides there just being a decent chance to dance.., there is a general understanding that a follower needs at least three tunes to learn a new leader's 'quirks' so to speak... :-)So it seems the theory is that she at least be given a chance to get to know him, before needing to part again. . . . On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:36:36 -0600, David wrote: I couldn't find this discussed in the archives and am very curious: Back in the golden age, when you danced the entire night to one Orquesta Tipica, did they play 3 or 4 songs and then some rock 'n roll (or whatever)?? What was a night of tango like back then?? Where did the tanda system as we know it come from? Did they change partners every song? Or never? I am utterly clueless. Cheers, D. David Thorn - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
