Re: [Tex-music] trills
Andre--
I may possibly have misled you a bit, but it depends on lots of factors.
Gardner Reed states "...only in the case of an unmeasured tremolo in quarter
notes is the primary beam broken, so that it does not connect the two stems.
...there is no other way of setting the quarter note apart from the smaller
values." But a little later he gives an example in "modern notation" of
measured quarter note tremolos with an unbroken primary beam but only a single
broken secondary beam. I will point out that in your original version you had a
quarter note tremolo with an unbroken primary beam but two secondary beams.
That would seem to be legal by extension of his second example, but only if you
wanted the tremolo to be measured. I'll further note that although Read isn't
100% clear, he seems to say that the difference between measured and unmeasured
tremolos is whether or not the tempo is slow enough to be able to play the
notes in the exact rhythm implied by the number of beams. If that's right and
if your quarter note tremolo is measured, it would have to consist of 8 32nd
notes. Actually that's not too unreasonable in light of the septuplet that
follows it. So maybe your original beaming, with the modification I proposed,
could be OK. On the other hand, if you did want unmeasured, then according to
Read we'd definitely have to go to broken primary beams on the quarter note
tremolos, like this:
a22xT12 o^ a+ | [-1 a-4xT03 a+ ] [-1 a-4xT03 a+ ] /
a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | [-1 a4-xT03 zc ze a ] [l+1 a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
This new version raises a couple more typesetting issues. Originally the broken
triple beams came out too high, almost touching the first note head. Making the
tremolos into forced, lowered beams solved that. Unfortunately, after lowering
the beams you might want to lengthen the stems a little, but I couldn't figure
out any way to get PMX to do that.
I will still try to see if I can solve the original issue you raised. It
obviously has to do with what number PMX assigns to the indented beams, and it
looks like as of now it always uses 0.
--Don
> -Original Message-
> From: TeX-Music
> On Behalf Of a...@telenet.be
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 9:01 PM
> To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
> Subject: Re: [Tex-music] trills
>
> Thank you very much, Don
>
> Now i can complete the sheet
>
> Andre
>
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: TeX-Music Namens
> dsim...@roadrunner.com
> Verzonden: zaterdag 30 januari 2021 5:45
> Aan: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
> Onderwerp: Re: [Tex-music] trills
>
> Andre, thanks for finding this bug! I'm impressed. It may take me a while to
> solve it, since I never thought about what problems might come up if you
> have one tremolo stop while another continues. In fact, I probably didn't
> think at all about simultaneous tremolos in different voices. In the meantime,
> you could get the same musical result with this
> ==
> a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-4xT12 a+ a-4xT12 a+ /
> a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
> == --Don
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: TeX-Music bounces+dsimons=roadrunner@tug.org>
> > On Behalf Of a...@telenet.be
> > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:27 AM
> > To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
> > Subject: [Tex-music] trills
> >
> > In this example, the trills are messed up. I cannot get it right with in
> > line
> TeX.
> >
> > But if i replace his lines in the TeX output from pmx, then it is ok:
> >
> > \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl032}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|% replace with
> > \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl332}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|%
> >
> > \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl0}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|% replace
> > with \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl3}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|%
> >
> > See attached tex file that runs well.
> >
> > I should like not to have to edit the tex file.
> >
> > Thanks for helping
> >
> > Andre
> >
> > 2 1 2 4 2 4 0 3
> >1 1 16 .1
> >
> > bt
> > ./
> > w400
> > a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-xT12 a+ /
> > a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
> > ==
>
>
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Re: [Tex-music] trills
Thank you very much, Don
Now i can complete the sheet
Andre
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: TeX-Music Namens
dsim...@roadrunner.com
Verzonden: zaterdag 30 januari 2021 5:45
Aan: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
Onderwerp: Re: [Tex-music] trills
Andre, thanks for finding this bug! I'm impressed. It may take me a while to
solve it, since I never thought about what problems might come up if you have
one tremolo stop while another continues. In fact, I probably didn't think at
all about simultaneous tremolos in different voices. In the meantime, you could
get the same musical result with this
==
a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-4xT12 a+ a-4xT12 a+ /
a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
== --Don
> -Original Message-
> From: TeX-Music
> On Behalf Of a...@telenet.be
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:27 AM
> To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
> Subject: [Tex-music] trills
>
> In this example, the trills are messed up. I cannot get it right with in line
> TeX.
>
> But if i replace his lines in the TeX output from pmx, then it is ok:
>
> \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl032}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|% replace with
> \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl332}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|%
>
> \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl0}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|% replace
> with \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl3}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|%
>
> See attached tex file that runs well.
>
> I should like not to have to edit the tex file.
>
> Thanks for helping
>
> Andre
>
> 2 1 2 4 2 4 0 3
>1 1 16 .1
>
> bt
> ./
> w400
> a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-xT12 a+ /
> a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
> ==
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Re: [Tex-music] trills
Andre, thanks for finding this bug! I'm impressed. It may take me a while to
solve it, since I never thought about what problems might come up if you have
one tremolo stop while another continues. In fact, I probably didn't think at
all about simultaneous tremolos in different voices. In the meantime, you could
get the same musical result with this
==
a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-4xT12 a+ a-4xT12 a+ /
a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
==
--Don
> -Original Message-
> From: TeX-Music
> On Behalf Of a...@telenet.be
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:27 AM
> To: 'Werner Icking Music Archive'
> Subject: [Tex-music] trills
>
> In this example, the trills are messed up. I cannot get it right with in line
> TeX.
>
> But if i replace his lines in the TeX output from pmx, then it is ok:
>
> \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl032}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|% replace with
> \pnotes{2.00}\roffset{.7}{\ibbl332}\ibl1{'B}2\hb1A|%
>
> \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl0}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|% replace with
> \raise2.16\internote\hbox{\loffset{.7}{\tbl3}}\tbl1\hb1{''A}|%
>
> See attached tex file that runs well.
>
> I should like not to have to edit the tex file.
>
> Thanks for helping
>
> Andre
>
> 2 1 2 4 2 4 0 3
>1 1 16 .1
>
> bt
> ./
> w400
> a22xT12 o^ a+ | a-xT12 a+ /
> a24xT12 zc ze o^ a | a4-xT12 zc ze a [l a-x7 zc ze za b c d e f g ] /
> ==
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Re: [Tex-music] Trills in pmx
Andre, thanks for discovering this bug. I don't have a solution yet. This will be pretty difficult. The basic reason is that for normal moved dots, I got them to move by redefining \C@Point , which musixtex includes in the dotted note macros \qup etc. But for 2-note tremolos, I use a different mechanism for inserting any dots, explicitly using \pt together with an undotted note macro, and that procedure ignores any redefinition of \C@Point. --Don > -Original Message- > From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music- > bounces+dsimons=roadrunner@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre Van > Ryckeghem > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:19 AM > To: Werner Icking Music Archive > Subject: [Tex-music] Trills in pmx > > Dear Don > > Since the 'the dot on the right note' correction in chords, this trill compiles > correct: > > e2dxT12 ?-2.4 zgn zasd ? as- > > and this trill gives a segmentation error: > > e2dxT12 ?-2.4 zgnd+0+1 zasd ? as- > > Thanks to look at it, > > Andre > > --- > TeX-music@tug.org mailing list > If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to > https://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music --- TeX-music@tug.org mailing list If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to https://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music
Re: [Tex-music] Trills
Well, as a quick fix you could do this: == 32 4 8 4 8 1 -6 1 1 16 .09 btt ./ ArbdI.9 Apl+t r8+0 a42 o_ g f e // rb8 a82x3n c ds rb g-x3n ds+ f t fDx3n t e f-x3n as b rb e-x3n a b rb / %rb8 rb2ax4n g4 rb f rb2ax4n e4 rb e // rb8 rb8 g84 rb f rb8 e rb e // r8+0 rb4x6n rb c4 g+ c f- rb4x6n rb b- f+ b e- rbx6n rb a- e+ b+ ds- rbx6n rb g- e+ b+ b- / b84 g8 o_ .fa r d1s D<+15 ea D<+15+2 b8+.fa D>+13 g D>+13 ga / == But there’s no good reason why your original version should fail to blank out the rest, especially given that rbx6n… does. I’ll look into it. This bug, and the previous one involving 2-note tremolos in forced beams in 2-voice staves, are both the kind of subtle, obscure bugs that Werner was so adept at finding. Thanks to Andre for carrying on the tradition! --Don From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre Van Ryckeghem Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 11:45 AM To: Werner Icking Music Archive <tex-music@tug.org> Subject: Re: [Tex-music] Trills Hi Don and all This is a somewhat complicated example with the song staff in mesure 4/8 and the accompanion in 6/8 (this is done with tuplets). But as you can see in the middle staff, the hidden rest of the lower voice is not hidden at the start of a bar. Is there a solution for this? Andre == 32 4 8 4 8 1 -6 1 1 16 .09 btt ./ ArbdI.9 Apl+t r8+0 a42 o_ g f e // rb8 a82x3n c ds rb g-x3n ds+ f t fDx3n t e f-x3n as b rb e-x3n a b rb / rb8 rb2ax4n g4 rb f rb2ax4n e4 rb e // r8+0 rb4x6n rb c4 g+ c f- rb4x6n rb b- f+ b e- rbx6n rb a- e+ b+ ds- rbx6n rb g- e+ b+ b- / b84 g8 o_ .fa r d1s D<+15 ea D<+15+2 b8+.fa D>+13 g D>+13 ga / == --- TeX-music@tug.org mailing list If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music
Re: [Tex-music] Trills
Hi Don and all This is a somewhat complicated example with the song staff in mesure 4/8 and the accompanion in 6/8 (this is done with tuplets). But as you can see in the middle staff, the hidden rest of the lower voice is not hidden at the start of a bar. Is there a solution for this? Andre == 32 4 8 4 8 1 -6 1 1 16 .09 btt ./ ArbdI.9 Apl+t r8+0 a42 o_ g f e // rb8 a82x3n c ds rb g-x3n ds+ f t fDx3n t e f-x3n as b rb e-x3n a b rb / rb8 rb2ax4n g4 rb f rb2ax4n e4 rb e // r8+0 rb4x6n rb c4 g+ c f- rb4x6n rb b- f+ b e- rbx6n rb a- e+ b+ ds- rbx6n rb g- e+ b+ b- / b84 g8 o_ .fa r d1s D<+15 ea D<+15+2 b8+.fa D>+13 g D>+13 ga / ==--- TeX-music@tug.org mailing list If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music
Re: [Tex-music] Trills
There’s no solution yet. I’m afraid it may take some hard work. Computing the default vertical positions AND SLOPES of the beams was very complicated even when there is only one note at each end. Judging from examples 2 and 4, it may not be too hard to simply tweak the height. We’ll see. And tomorrow is a holiday in the US. --Don From: TeX-Music [mailto:tex-music-boun...@tug.org] On Behalf Of Andre Van Ryckeghem Sent: Monday, July 03, 2017 9:01 PM To: Werner Icking Music Archive <tex-music@tug.org> Subject: Re: [Tex-music] Trills Hi all, I a trying to change the direction of the beams in a 2 note trill. In the 1st example the beam is not high enough and it should be a low beam. Using ‘[l’ does not work and higher the beam with ‘[+2’ does not affect the short beams (example 2). If i change the order of the notes i can make the beams low but the problem stays (example 3 and 4 ). Is there a solution for this problem? Thanks on advance for helping Andre == 1 1 6 8 6 8 0 0 1 1 20 0 t ./ Ap AT b24dxT12 zd zg g- [+2 b24dxT12 zd zg g- ] g25dxT12 zd zb g [-2 g+dxT12 zd zb g ] / === --- TeX-music@tug.org mailing list If you want to unsubscribe or look at the archives, go to http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-music
