Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference?

Hi, >Like most counters, the 53230A has an ext-ref input. But it is horrible. And the ref output is even worse. I had similar issues using the internal ref. output of the Agilent 53230A (with OCXO option installed) connected to the Ext. ref input of the 33220A. The frequency synthtized by the

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference?

2017 9:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference? Hi Thomas, About the 53230A -- like many of us I figured there was no point in buying the expensive OCXO versions since I have plenty of good 10 MH

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

CERN have flagged another potential issue with the 53230A in that every so often seemingly randomly communications go hawire. Bruce > > On 10 May 2017 at 04:46 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" > wrote: > > On 5/9/2017 12:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > >

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

On 5/9/2017 12:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I'm sure that modern counters like 53230 are better at this than The 53230 oven oscillator option in an inferior oscillator to the 10811, by an order of magnitude. So in this case, modern != better. Rick

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference?

Hi Thomas, About the 53230A -- like many of us I figured there was no point in buying the expensive OCXO versions since I have plenty of good 10 MHz references around here. So years ago Keysight loaned me two of them for a month: one with, and one without OCXO. Like most counters, the 53230A

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

In message <54ee7bdd-0a49-cc49-540d-2812e70dd...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson writes: >Wither it is proper side bands or other systematic noise, it is bad >indeed, [...] It's more subtle than that, it can be things like thresholds in the counters trigger being sensitive to

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi Poul-Henning, On 05/09/2017 02:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message <60c74d75-41e5-7112-d8b6-721664b89...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson writes: Indeed. On the other hand some measurements is hard not to do that way. One should think about how isolation is created

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi, In HP5370A/B you mux sources. In SR620 there is a lockup PLL, as far as I remember. Cheers, Magnus On 05/09/2017 01:11 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi If you grab the schematic of pretty much any of these counters, you find a fairly common approach. Somewhere inside is a VHF oscillator. The

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

In message <60c74d75-41e5-7112-d8b6-721664b89...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus Danielson writes: >Indeed. On the other hand some measurements is hard not to do that way. >One should think about how isolation is created if needed, and this >includes AC and DC, common mode and

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi If you grab the schematic of pretty much any of these counters, you find a fairly common approach. Somewhere inside is a VHF oscillator. The internal TCXO, OCXO, or Rb acts as a phase lock source for that VHF oscillator. Typical PLL bandwidths are pretty low (10’s of Hz). When you put in

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi, On 05/09/2017 09:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message , Magnus Danielson writes: Also, there is a reason that you can buy different internal oscillators, this is one of them. For labs with their frequency

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

In message , Magnus Danielson writes: >Also, there is a reason that you can buy different internal oscillators, >this is one of them. For labs with their frequency distribution there is >no need to waste money on stand-alone

Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi Tom! On 05/09/2017 03:02 AM, Tom Knox wrote: Hi All; How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in counters like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise external reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on other ultra

[time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

Hi All; How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in counters like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise external reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on other ultra high performance references? I know Agilent sold

Re: [time-nuts] Counter?

ctivities was radioactivity measurements i.e. counters. > The thing looks 1960's to me. Not sure if it is worth 3000 bucks, though. > > Kind regards, > Thomas. > > > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:32:09 +0100 (CET) > From: "iov...@inwind.it" <iov...@i

Re: [time-nuts] Counter?

Hi It depends on just how closely you define the term. Simple answer WWII military gear for the principle (all glass etc). For the exact dimensions and pin sizes. Post WWII TV sets. Bob > On Feb 19, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > th.allge...@gmail.com

Re: [time-nuts] Counter?

th.allge...@gmail.com said: > An interesting find, but not as old as advertised: Friesecke & Hoepfner only > moved to Erlangen-Bruck after WW2, in or around 1949. ... When were 7 and 9 pin tubes first used? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.

Re: [time-nuts] Counter?

i.e. counters. The thing looks 1960's to me. Not sure if it is worth 3000 bucks, though. Kind regards, Thomas. Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:32:09 +0100 (CET) From: "iov...@inwind.it" <iov...@inwind.it> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: [time-nuts] Counter? Message-ID: <11

[time-nuts] Counter?

This tube type item on ebay is equipped with E1T high speed decade counting tubes. 222022951573 I'm not affiliated, etc... Antonio i8iov ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

[time-nuts] Counter Clock freq lock advice

Back from Dayton and found in my mailbox a PLJ-9VFD-A9 digit frequency counter block. Fresh from eBay. Very nice piece of gear for about $20. It has a 13 MHz voltage controlled time base marked 1300446 TW 499K. Pin out seems standard and the Voltage Control on pin 1 simply goes to a (I

Re: [time-nuts] Counter averaging errors near clock harmonics

Charles. On 04/10/2015 09:27 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: The subject of errors in averaging counters at input frequencies near the clock frequency and its subharmonics and harmonics comes up on the list from time to time. There is a nice discussion of the phenomenon, and how it was addressed

[time-nuts] Counter averaging errors near clock harmonics

The subject of errors in averaging counters at input frequencies near the clock frequency and its subharmonics and harmonics comes up on the list from time to time. There is a nice discussion of the phenomenon, and how it was addressed in the design of the HP 5345A counter, in the June, 1974

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Il 2013-01-14 22:15 Charles P. Steinmetz ha scritto: Because the oscillators are sealed assemblies, I'm not aware of anyone who has taken one apart for analysis -- so the reason for this behavior must be considered unknown until we know what is going on inside. By the way, there is a non

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

budget. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Fabio Eboli Sent: 14 January 2013 23:09 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour I answer here to all, thank Ed

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Eboli fabi...@quipo.it To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, January 15, 2013 9:21:21 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour By the way, there is a non working unit on ebay in US just now, 58h to auction end. If it was in EU I

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Robert, I asked the seller for the least expensive way to send that OCXO here (nothing to lose on a marginal packaging, let's assume the item is non working) and he quoted 12USD. I think I must refrain from spending 20USD (assuming I will be the only bidder) for a device to be dissected, althoug

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Il 2013-01-15 15:31 David C. Partridge ha scritto: Yes the 1992 4E adjustment is a bear. Mine behaves pretty much the same, ISTR it took me a few days to get it adjusted to my satisfaction and it was still drifting a bit. The strange thing is that mine now is changing frequency at more than

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

- Original Message From: Fabio Eboli fabi...@quipo.it To: Robert LaJeunesse lajeune...@mail.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, January 15, 2013 10:04:37 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour Robert, I asked the seller

[time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Hello, recently I tried to trim the Racal Dana 1992 04E internal reference, using the GPS pps as a reference. I'd like to ask a pair of questions... - First is about the method. I'm using the counter TI to measure it's own OCXO. The GPS is starting the count, the internal reference 10MHz (on the

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Is it manually adjusted right at the oscillator? If so, just opening it up and sticking a screwdriver in there gives it a thermal shock, and the adjusted element will have mechanical stress that has to settle out too - the value can change for a while. Ed

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

The Racal Dana 1991/1992 OCXO has a big pair of pan head screws exposed on the back. One is coarse adjust and one is fine adjust. I have the TCXO version which also exposes the adjustment on the back so you do not have to open anything to get to it. You can see them here:

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

On Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:14:23 +0100, Fabio Eboli fabi...@quipo.it wrote: Hello, recently I tried to trim the Racal Dana 1992 04E internal reference, using the GPS pps as a reference. I'd like to ask a pair of questions... - First is about the method. I'm using the counter TI to measure it's own

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Ed wrote: Is it manually adjusted right at the oscillator? If so, just opening it up and sticking a screwdriver in there gives it a thermal shock, and the adjusted element will have mechanical stress that has to settle out too - the value can change for a while. The 04E standard used in the

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

I answer here to all, thank Ed David and Charles for your thoughts. David, LOL, you posted the pic of the exact counter in question. Not a similar unit, I mean it's exactly *that* 1992 that is being measured ;) The pictures on eevblog show the early measurements I made with the counter. One of

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

Il 2013-01-15 00:08 Fabio Eboli ha scritto: Trying to be more clear: 10MHz period error (vs. GPS) changed from -0.8x10^-10 soon after the trim, to +1x10^-10 after two days (top right). Top right is change of phase in time, i.e. period error measured using GPS as reference. The OCXO period

[time-nuts] Counter

Is shipped, tracking number 1Z30VR960337713831 due Wednesday Didier Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and

Re: [time-nuts] Counter

Subject: [time-nuts] Counter Is shipped, tracking number 1Z30VR960337713831 due Wednesday Didier Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin

Re: [time-nuts] Counter

--** From: shali...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 11:23 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Counter Is shipped, tracking number 1Z30VR960337713831 due Wednesday Didier

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Would that be FPGAconf? It's still mentioned in the documentation and seems to be a kind of bitfile loader. There's no mention of a requirement to use it, but it may be necessary. Docs mention Altera or Xilinx packages and a c++ compiler as necessary. I just skimmed the document. Don in business

Re: [time-nuts] counter

-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 12:04 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Would that be FPGAconf? It's still mentioned in the documentation and seems to be a kind of bitfile loader. There's

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Not that the decks are cleared for this project yet. Heck, my picII's aren't built or programmed. Speaking of PICTIC II's. Great project, but I had originally decided not to go that route as list members were indicating that 5370Bs were to be picked up for 200 bucks. Not so in France I am

Re: [time-nuts] counter

On 1/30/2011 12:33 AM, cook michael wrote: as list members were indicating that 5370Bs were to be picked up for 200 bucks. Not so in France I am afraid. I have not been able to find anything under 5 times that over here. I questioned that, relative to my experience. Miracles do happen, but

Re: [time-nuts] counter

12:04 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Would that be FPGAconf? It's still mentioned in the documentation and seems to be a kind of bitfile loader. There's no mention of a requirement to use it, but it may be necessary. Docs mention

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Yes, boards and parts, please email me off list. Stanley snip Speaking of PICTIC II's. Great project, but I had originally decided not to go that route as list members were indicating that 5370Bs were to be picked up for 200 bucks. Not so in France I am afraid. I have not been able to find

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Hi Don, At the risk of speaking out of turn, and not knowing too much about this project (I'm new here!) have you considered something like these boards: http://www.gadgetfactory.net/index.php?main_page=indexcPath=1zenid=d282dce6c5b0acfe45c1377315b2734c They use the Spartan 3E chips, like alot

Re: [time-nuts] counter

They look interesting, Tristan. Gee, nobody's in charge of this, I'm not sure it's even a project at this point, and AFIK there's no out of turn :-). I too like the Arduino, in fact I've settled on them or the Propeller for projects if I can, so the boards you propose may work just fine. Don

Re: [time-nuts] counter

- Original Message From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 6:02:57 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Seems right, John. For just a little more, the other units you recommended might be better

Re: [time-nuts] counter

. If not, I'll just keep doing my own fpga based counter thing. regards, Fred - Original Message From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 1:51:45 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter

Re: [time-nuts] counter

...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 6:02:57 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Seems right, John. For just a little more, the other units you recommended might be better. Still a lot of programming work to do

Re: [time-nuts] counter

: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 1:51:45 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter They look interesting, Tristan. Gee, nobody's in charge of this, I'm not sure it's even a project at this point

Re: [time-nuts] counter

, depending on your chosen counter architecture and maximum frequency. regards, Fred - Original Message From: Bob Bownes bow...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 2:26:22 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Yes

Re: [time-nuts] counter

, Fred - Original Message From: Bob Bownes bow...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 2:26:22 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Yes, it's still active. I've created a mailing list and google group

Re: [time-nuts] counter

With regard to the home-brew counter project, if it still exists: From friend Marcus Leech on another list: Don't know whether you've seen these: http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards_USB2.html $79.95 for the low-end board, which includes and FX2, and a small Cyclone FPGA. Pretty good value.

Re: [time-nuts] counter

With regard to the home-brew counter project, if it still exists: From friend Marcus Leech on another list: Don't know whether you've seen these: http://www.knjn.com/ShopBoards_USB2.html $79.95 for the low-end board, which includes and FX2, and a small Cyclone FPGA. Pretty good

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Aha. good to know. Do you suppose if we put on our thinking caps we can get the academic pricing? Would whinging or outright begging do it? :-) Not that the decks are cleared for this project yet. Heck, my picII's aren't built or programmed. Don John Miles With regard to the home-brew counter

Re: [time-nuts] counter

-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:13 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] counter Aha. good to know. Do you suppose

[time-nuts] counter

A cursory look around produced counters and dividers from: http://www.lsicsi.com There are probably comparable units available elsewhere. I know that rfbay has some microwave dividers, and Hittite as well, although Hittite is a bit expensive. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the

[time-nuts] counter

Hello, I have some other Time and frequency stuff for some time nuts, before I place it on ebay. A Stanford Research SR620 Time interval counter including option 1 (Oven Osc.) Well working and timebase adjusted. A Vectron Crystal Oscillator CO-811B-1 10 MHz is a replacemant for the HP 10811

Re: [time-nuts] counter

Hello Eric, how much are you asking for the SR620? thanks, Said In a message dated 3/10/2008 12:31:50 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have some other Time and frequency stuff for some time nuts, before I place it on ebay. A Stanford Research SR620 Time interval

Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution

Subject: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution Mike, Your statement about counters is rather general and misleading. You need to explain your comment better. For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having the internal reference frequency offset from a standard

Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution

and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution Mike, Your statement about counters is rather general and misleading. You need to explain your comment better. For instance, are your referring to the input signal or did you mean having the internal reference frequency

Re: [time-nuts] Counter display resolution

Mike , this is correct. if you display just under 10Mhz , you have a digit better resolution. My counter does the same The same applies to 1Mhz , 100Mhz , etc . When the counter just has to go to the next higher digit, it will loose one digit resolution. Not if the counter can roll-over

[time-nuts] Counter joy

Hi fellow time-nuts! A few days ago I finally received my latest counter, a Wavecrest SIA-3000P. It's a 3-channel bestie with 1.7 GHz BW on each channel. I have now pulled a few small tricks and is able to run it with external monitor, mouse and keyboard. Isn't that hard actually. I just did my