von Didier Juges
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Oktober 2006 06:03
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?
Bruce,
Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was
planning to use a
74HC74, and whatever dividers I
Didier,
I've been out of town and I see a flurry of postings to
your original query about Allan deviation. It sounds
like your goal is to measure the stability of various
oscillators that you have lying around?
First, your 5370 or any other TIC (Time Interval Counter)
will be adequate for this.
Tom Van Baak wrote:
Didier,
I've been out of town and I see a flurry of postings to
your original query about Allan deviation. It sounds
like your goal is to measure the stability of various
oscillators that you have lying around?
First, your 5370 or any other TIC (Time Interval Counter)
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:52:21 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom
Hi Bruce,
In comparing 2 oscillators do you mean
1) Connecting one oscillator to the FREQ STD input at the rear
Magnus
The drawback with a CPLD is that most have a relatively high dc supply
current.
I have a couple of CPLD designs that work the way you advocated.
A CMOS divider has the attraction that its power supply current can be
relatively small even when the (small duty cycle) output drives a 50 ohm
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:35:43 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Magnus
The drawback with a CPLD is that most have a relatively high dc supply
current.
The good old XC9536 will draw 42.24
Hi Ulrich,
comments are embedded:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
the Datum LPRO User's Guide / Installation Guide discusses some methods
of sine to square wave conversion in terms of lowest phase noise.
This is good to know. Do you have any suggestion how I might get a copy
of the relevant pages
Didier Juges wrote:
Hi Ulrich,
comments are embedded:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
the Datum LPRO User's Guide / Installation Guide discusses some methods
of sine to square wave conversion in terms of lowest phase noise.
This is good to know. Do you have any suggestion how I might
Didier
Did you get my comment on HP5370A differential linearity errors.
It made it to the list but I didn't receive a bounced copy.
Bruce
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Hi there,
I concur, Ulrich's Plotter program is really great! And extremely fast too.
Ulrich, some points for additional features (maybe the latest version has
these already?):
* Settings such as trace color, Values Format, highlighted traces etc get
lost when re-loading the data
Hi Tom,
comments are embedded:
Tom Van Baak wrote:
Didier,
I've been out of town and I see a flurry of postings to
your original query about Allan deviation. It sounds
like your goal is to measure the stability of various
oscillators that you have lying around?
That's what happens when
Here are my $0.02...
Magnus Danielson wrote:
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:52:21 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom
Hi Bruce,
In comparing 2 oscillators do you mean
1
Didier Juges wrote:
Here are my $0.02...
Magnus Danielson wrote:
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to measure Allan Deviation?
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:52:21 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom
Hi Bruce
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier
Did you get my comment on HP5370A differential linearity errors.
It made it to the list but I didn't receive a bounced copy.
Bruce
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Didier Juges wrote:
I do not understand the signal on the rear trigger outputs. At the
moment, I have a single 10 MHz sine signal fed to the START channel, and
the 5370 is set to TI, MEAN, SAMPLE SIZE 1, + TI ONLY, START channel
triggers on rise and STOP channel triggers on fall, and START
Didier
START and STOP selection is even more complex than I indicated.
START SOURCE STOP SOURCE REAR PANEL START TRIGGER REAR
PANEL STOP TRIGGER
Front panel START Front Panel STOP Front Panel START
Front Panel STOP
Front panel STOP
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
I do not understand the signal on the rear trigger outputs. At the
moment, I have a single 10 MHz sine signal fed to the START channel, and
the 5370 is set to TI, MEAN, SAMPLE SIZE 1, + TI ONLY, START channel
triggers on rise and STOP
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
I do not understand the signal on the rear trigger outputs. At the
moment, I have a single 10 MHz sine signal fed to the START channel, and
the 5370 is set to TI, MEAN, SAMPLE SIZE 1, + TI ONLY, START channel
Hi Bruce,
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
I do not understand the signal on the rear trigger outputs. At the
moment, I have a single 10 MHz sine signal fed to the START channel, and
the 5370 is set
Didier Juges wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
I do not understand the signal on the rear trigger outputs. At the
moment, I have a single 10 MHz sine
Can you send me the pdf of the HP journal about the 5370?
If it's too big to attach, can you upload it to my web site?
dns: ftp.ko4bb.com
login: manuals
password: manuals
You can download the August 1978 issue directly from the HP Archive site
http://www.hparchive.com/hp_journals.htm .
--
Hi Didier --
I have written a bunch of simple programs for GPIB data gathering, using
perl and the linux-gpib libraries under Linux. However, the code is
pretty straightforward and it should be easy to extract the command
strings to send to the counter. From that, you should be able to
re-write
Didier, a few comments embedded below.
John
Didier Juges said the following on 10/22/2006 10:34 AM:
Hi Warner,
Does it mean I should divide the 10 MHz down to 1 Hz output and use the
5370 to measure TI compared to it's internal timebase once per second,
and feed that to the
Didier Juges wrote:
OK, here is my problem. I do not think it is a unique problem, based on
recent mail :-)
I have read about the Allan Deviation and I understand the principle,
even though the nuances between the 3 basic Allan deviations escape me
at the moment, but I am sure it will
Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK, here is my problem. I do not think it is a unique
problem, based on recent mail :-)
I have read about the Allan Deviation and I understand
the principle, even though the nuances between the 3
basic Allan deviations escape me at the moment, but I
Hi John,
I got zip (does not work either :-)
I remember going through something like that a while back on one of my
servers, I have no recollection how I fixed it :-(
The files look pretty small, can you email them to me?
Interestingly, on my ISP's server (Linux too), I have no problem
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:19 PM:
An inexpensive modern time interval counter with a power dissipation of
less than 10 watts and a resolution comparable to the 5370 would be
useful for such comparisons especially if the experiment lasts several
months.
I don't
Didier
If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency
down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider
to ensure that it doesn't degrade the measurement resolution. It may be
necessary to resynchronise the divided output using a fast D flipflop
Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most GPS receivers with higher frequency outputs than 1Hz, phase
modulate the high frequency output in this way and the datasheets
explicitly indicate this.
Thus there would appear to be little advantage in phase locking to the
10KHz signal with
Tim Shoppa wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most GPS receivers with higher frequency outputs than 1Hz, phase
modulate the high frequency output in this way and the datasheets
explicitly indicate this.
Thus there would appear to be little advantage in phase locking to
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:33 PM:
Didier
If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency
down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider
to ensure that it doesn't degrade the measurement resolution. It may be
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 08:24 PM:
Reading between the lines on the Jupiter GPS receiver datasheet it would
appear that the 10KHz output is phase modulated at 1Hz to realign it to
successive PPS output pulses. As the PPS jitters about so does the 10KHz
signal.
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Reading between the lines on the Jupiter GPS receiver datasheet it would
appear that the 10KHz output is phase modulated at 1Hz to realign it to
successive PPS output pulses. As the PPS jitters about so does the 10KHz
signal.
Most GPS receivers with higher
I really like the 5334s (either A or B; the A is actually a more
featureful instrument than the B) and I have five or six of them; I
didn't pay more than $100 for any of them. And, most of them have
10811As, so I figure worst case I can throw the counter out and still
get my money's worth from
John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths said the following on 10/22/2006 07:33 PM:
Didier
If you are going to use a PPS divider to divide the oscillator frequency
down to 1Hz, you will need to measure the inherent jitter of the divider
to ensure that it doesn't degrade the
You can do a lot worse than straight TTL. Some useful graphs on pages 102
and 103 of Rohde's Microwave and Wireless Synthesizers: Theory and Design.
Hint: Look it up at www.amazon.com and you can view those two pages, if you
search within the book for the phrase 170 dB.
-- john, KE5FX
The few
John Miles wrote:
You can do a lot worse than straight TTL. Some useful graphs on pages 102
and 103 of Rohde's Microwave and Wireless Synthesizers: Theory and Design.
Hint: Look it up at www.amazon.com and you can view those two pages, if you
search within the book for the phrase 170 dB.
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the
PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the
PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the
PPS signal occurs during the 10KHz burst which was phase
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the
PPS signal occurs during
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading edge of the
PPS signal occurs during
Bruce,
Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a
74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking
forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something
else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't really matter, as long as
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary the delay and watch the jitter jump when the leading
Didier Juges wrote:
Bruce,
Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a
74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking
forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something
else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a time interval counter:
PPS - START
delayed 10KHz - STOP
Vary
Didier Juges wrote:
Bruce,
Thanks for the reminder. That was my intention. I was planning to use a
74HC74, and whatever dividers I can get my hands on. I am not looking
forward to daisy chain seven 7490s, so I will probably try something
else. With the D flip-flop, the dividers don't
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
In principle this measurement could be made with a
OK, here is my problem. I do not think it is a unique problem, based on
recent mail :-)
I have read about the Allan Deviation and I understand the principle,
even though the nuances between the 3 basic Allan deviations escape me
at the moment, but I am sure it will come once I re-read the Help
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