Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX
One needs to know the carrier frequency. Must be a high quality reference for the Cassini transmitter. On 04/03/2014 08:17 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: I just read about a discovery of a liquid water ocean on Saturn's moon Enceladus. The method used was to measure the velocity of a spacecraft

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Back when they were designing this stuff, they were very interested in getting into the parts in 10 to the 15th. They didn’t get there, but that was the desire. Bob On Apr 4, 2014, at 2:17 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com wrote: One needs to know the carrier frequency. Must be a

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/3/14 8:17 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: I just read about a discovery of a liquid water ocean on Saturn's moon Enceladus. The method used was to measure the velocity of a spacecraft as it makes a close fly-by. Gravitational anomalies will cause the spacecraft to speed up or slow down as it

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/3/14 11:17 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: One needs to know the carrier frequency. Must be a high quality reference for the Cassini transmitter. Two way measurements are most likely here (although Cassini does carry a USO). So the downlink is locked to the uplink which comes from a

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/14 4:30 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Back when they were designing this stuff, they were very interested in getting into the parts in 10 to the 15th. They didn’t get there, but that was the desire. Roughly that... http://lasp.colorado.edu/~horanyi/graduate_seminar/RSS.pdf is a good

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Bill Hawkins
Jim, Thanks for sharing the details and preventing this subject from turning into shared ignorance. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Dr. David Kirkby
On 4 Apr 2014 08:55, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: 90 microns is approx a freq res of about 1 x 3.66 -12 Thomas Knox Since the Doppler shift is prortional to the frequency, I can't see how one can determine the absolute frequency. But given light travels at 3e8 m/s and they can

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/14 7:39 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Jim, Thanks for sharing the details and preventing this subject from turning into shared ignorance. It was working on this kind of thing that led me to time-nuts in the first place.. Deep Space nav is probably one of the most precise measurements made

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Tom Knox
You are correct. I did most in my head late last night and kind of lost my focus as I was finishing. I was attempting to see roughly what timing accuracy was needed. I meant to end the sentence with a question mark. Thomas Knox Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 13:01:12 +0100 From: drkir...@gmail.com

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/14 5:01 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 4 Apr 2014 08:55, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: 90 microns is approx a freq res of about 1 x 3.66 -12 Thomas Knox Since the Doppler shift is prortional to the frequency, I can't see how one can determine the absolute frequency. But

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Chris Albertson
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: Radio science and navigation measurements are quite impressive in their accuracy and attention to detail. measuring range to cm (out of a billion km, i.e 1 part in 1E14) and velocity to mm/s is sort of standard. Looks to be

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/14 9:34 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: Radio science and navigation measurements are quite impressive in their accuracy and attention to detail. measuring range to cm (out of a billion km, i.e 1 part in 1E14) and velocity

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Alex Pummer
gravitation measurement, particularly gravitation measurement in space is based on the Eotvos -effect see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6s_effect and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lor%C3%A1nd_E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6sand from the begin of the space exploration many space

Re: [time-nuts] Water on Enceladus - What does this imply about NASA'a ability to measure frequency?

2014-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/14 9:58 AM, Alex Pummer wrote: gravitation measurement, particularly gravitation measurement in space is based on the Eotvos -effect see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6s_effect and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lor%C3%A1nd_E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6sand from the begin