Sounds kind of like this oscillator. I found it to be very low
power but it took about a week for it to really settle down and
until then I was continually adjusting the EFC.
http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/Oscillator_zps63a30a2f.jpg
-Arthur
The photo looks like one of the 2 units I have but the info on
one if my oscillators says:
CTS Knights
970-2074-0
5 Mhz
0410-2540
8947
I'm pretty sure the last numbers are the
date code. If more than one company made these units they
could have been in some piece of equipment made
On August 10th Dale J. Robertson wrote:
How does patent infringement litigation get started anyway?
I would think that the infringement claim would have to be specific i.e.
you are infringing on our patent number blah, claims blah, blah, blah
blah. not just you are infringing on our patent. you
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf.
The problem with the above link is the period is included as part of the
link when you click on it. It will work without the period.
-Arthur
One of these was my first frequency standard that I used as a marker
for checking the calibration of an old Collins TCS-12 receiver I used
around 1959. I built a small power supply for the oscillator and
used it for a few years until the filament opened and it died. Even
way back then I felt that
GandalfG8 at aol.com GandalfG8 at aol.com
Wed Oct 22 04:35:40 EDT 2014
Similarly, with this RFTG-u kit I'd be more inclined to look for ways of
routing the native 5MHz from the GPS conditioned Milliren 260 series
oscillator to the outside world, and to just treat any other use found for
the
Oops, photo link didn't make it in my last post
http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/RFTG-uREF1photo1_zps87c505ca.jpg
-Arthur
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Anthony Roby aroby at antamy.com wrote:
My curiosity got the better of me so I ordered these earlier this week and
received them today.
I've powered both up and quickly measured the 10MHz output. I don't yet
have a GPS antenna feed
that I can connect, so couldn't check that out. And I need to
I can't remember when I initially powered up my RFTG-u REF 1 how long
it took to give me the green light but I *believe* it was a long time,
maybe the better part of 24 hours. I think after testing and being
fustrated I forgot to turn it off one night and the next day things
looked normal. I have
….”
++
Reposting what I had posted over a week ago, in case you missed it….
Arthur Dent golgarfrincham at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 13:59:48 EDT 2014
“…Way back on Fri Jun 11 16:48:43 UTC 2010 I posted about using one of
these units I had modified but at the time there wasn't a single person
who
Keep in mind that I made the modifications to my RFTG-u REF 1 almost
4 years ago and the details of why I did what I did are kind of foggy
today. It was a pure hack but I *believe* that the circuitry as well
as the jumpers were required, or at least I thought so. The big problem
with getting
GandalfG8 at aol.com GandalfG8 at aol.com Sun Nov 2 09:08:30 EST 2014 wrote:
Ooh err, whoops, and oh dear !!
Arthur, I've only just had a chance to look at your latest photos, and
unless I've really got my wires crossed, if you'll pardon the
expression:-),
your links on J5 are not shown on pins
Lester Veenstra lester at veenstras.com Tue Nov 4 16:56:29 EST 2014 wrote:
And you can get a I climbed Mt. Washington sticker for your clock.
+++
It may be a little OT but I actually worked on the summit for the
Mount Washington Weather Observatory for 4 winters as well as climbing
Could someone who has both the REF 0 and REF 1 units check
to see if the REF 0 unit has U1 missing. U1 is an AD7849
serial input, 14-Bit/16-Bit DAC on my REF 1 units but is
missing on an old REF 0 I just dug out of the to-do pile.
Someone may have already mentioned this and I missed it.
-Arthur
I also seem to recall pix of the Z3801 oscillator and there were not any
adjustments. I sure hope I missed something.
Thanks
Paul
WB8TSL
+
There is an adjustment on the inner 10811 oscillator but it isn't easy to
get to. Here is a description.
I just noticed this on Ebay. The seller has several other related
items but the pricing is kind of confusing. No a lot of info.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-DISCPLINED-CLOCK-GPSDO-10M-OUTPUT-SQUARE-WAVE-/111514491254
-Arthur
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You can see a similar product by this seller direct -
http://www.cart100.com/seller/bg7tbl/
http://www.cart100.com/Product/38848104218/
Looks like a similar product at almost 3 time the Ebay price.
There are more photos at the second link under 'specifications'
and you can read MV89A on the
If you refer to the picture of the microprocessor board, you will
notice that the locations marked D1, D2 and D3 are populated by zero
ohm resistors. That means that the 3 V microcontroller was powered
from 5V. I am actually amazed that they worked at all, let alone
worked for a while.
It is a
On Mon, Dec 4, paul swed wrote:
Yes sir $139. But boy I have not seen cheap tbolts in bit. As I recall
$260 these days?
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Bob Camp lists at rtty.us wrote:
Hi
The gotcha is that you go from paying surplus prices to paying new prices.
New price to new price,
I feel like shouldn't need to fuss with ambient conditions this heavily
for an OCXO, and find myself researching construction / design for a DIY
outer-oven to wrap the thunderbolt in.
Anyone have experience with non-stable temperature on a trimble thunderbolt?
The temperature you see is not from
I believe that the high temperature alarm you see is triggered at 50 degrees
C. If that is what you're seeing without artificially raising the temperature
of the Thunderbolt by insulating it so it can't radiate the heat, what I said
about replacing the chip is correct but if it is staying
I picked up one of the Nortel NTPB15AA (Trimble) GPSDO from
the common auction site and decided adding a monitor display to
the front panel would be a good idea. The entire unit draws about
300ma at 48vdc at power up and there is room inside the case for
a small AC power supply. There is
Bob Camp-
A quartz crystal in insensitive to magnetic field. This being Time Nut's
that's
not the whole story. Ferrite core inductors can indeed exhibit a bit of static
mag field sensitivity. Your OCXO may or may not have some in it.
Precision crystals have clips made from nickel. The posts
The manual states that loosing the settings on a 6680 is no big problem ,
but on the 6681 you loose the interpolator calibtation. And it sounds
like that's not a good thing.
I didn't know you had to watch out for Battery on a PM6680/81.
CFO - Tnut-Beginner
Denmark
The battery in the 6680
Besides the previous mentioned Time-Nuts reference in this thread
to the so-called psychomouse problem on November 1, 2010
there was a thread on November 29, 2011 entitled Unplug T-bolt
before booting up...?? that had most of the information covered here.
Although this problem has been known
Has anyone run a stability plot (0-100 or 1000 seconds) on the MTI 260..
There are several sub-models of the 260 in either AT or SC cuts with widely
different characteristics. It might help to know which one you have. The ones
on the popular auction site may be custom built units. Try checking
But the only NiCd I know about are the AA sized ones.
I have some of the wet NiCd batteries that are capable of
putting out 200A continuously. I'm assuming the internal
resistance is pretty low. ;-)
Arthur
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I just bought the last one at 11:30PM.
-Arthur
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Despite what has been previously posted I’ve found my 565s
to be very good frequency references for my counters and they
seem to compare well to the Thunderbolts. I haven’t run any
long term checks but comparing Tbolts to 565s on my scope
from time to time I’ve never seen any jumps or
I haven't looked any further but the daughter boards
in the unit have 75 ohm resistors which I'm guessing
determines the input/output impedance of the unit.
If that's the case it should be easy to switch it to 50
ohms although it may not make any real difference.
-Arthur
There has been a lot of speculation about the innards of the OXCO in the
Thunderbolt so here is what I found inside a dead one that I opened. I
didn’t trace the circuit out so most of the description that follows is just
from a cursory look and may not be totally correct. Below are links to a
Has anybody traced out the connections on the DB-37 connector on
the back of this beast yet?
I never looked at the 37-pin connector on the back of the unit but back
in December, 2012 I did post that I had added a display and an A.C.
supply to the one I had and it seems to be working fine. I
This style of crystal was quite common at one time, and yes, it fits a
valve base but it's for a B7G 7 pin base, not B6G as suggested in the
auction.
The XTAL is a Bliley BG6 which has nothing to do with the number of
pins. The link below is a photo I just took of a Bliley BG6 series with
2
That's one of the better ones - clip mounted.
Here's a better view of the innards where you can see the wire from the
XTAL to the green support soldered at both ends. Below the support the
wires are spot welded.
http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/Blileyxtal2_zps9c0dacb1.jpg
Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com
Tue Mar 12 12:55:48 EDT 2013
I found the 1 ohm resistor from the 12 volt pin to the heater circuit
popped off its solder pads and was laying between the insulation
and the metal enclosure.
++
You might want to check the 2 photos and
I have owned a similar 9390-5588A with the FRK Rb inside for a few
years now. Although the Rb is quite old, the unit locks in just 3
minutes and finds the GPS time (off by 1024 weeks, 16 sec, UTC) in
four minutes and displays an initial PDOP 03. I have reset the time
to the correct UTC time but
An
easy way to see the 10 microsecond pulse
On the
Tbolt is to use a pulse stretcher. I
Used this
circuit on the 25 microsecond wide
Pulse on
the HP Z3801 to add a true 1 second
pulse
indication to the front panel and also
output
the pulse through a 51 ohm resistor to
a BNC
on the back
I posted this photo before but I built the display, P.S., dist. amp, and Tbolt
into a small case with the Tbolt supplying power and data to the display. I can
still use the external RS-232 unmodified for Lady Heather. Seemed like a good
simple way to do it.
I'm not finding the Fluke1 monitor on eBay. Any leads?
Try
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=300373959536
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Don't know where to get QBH-367s but you will see I'm using 3 in this photo.
I got the board with them on it from another piece of equipment.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4307285530_4222e414ff_o.jpg
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I picked up a used 10 Mhz distribution amplifier made by an English
company. The input uses a LT1016 10ns comparator as the input stage
that drives several CD74AC00E quad nand gates. The output from each
AC00 I.C. is fed through filters to recreate a pretty good sinewave.
I wrote: “The input uses a LT1016 10ns comparator as the input stage
that drives several CD74AC00E quad nand gates” and got this response.
“This is a terrible design. The comparator will add considerable
jitter. What were they thinking? Rick Karlquist N6RK“
While my post was to show that
“If you wish to converse with me, define your terms.” -Voltaire
Part of the problem is the multiple meanings of the word primary.
In the 'normal' world, primary can mean main, as in my primary mode
of transportation. In the world of time it is pretty much defined
as not needing to be adjusted to
R-390 or S/390?
The R-390 receiver (designed by Collins) is probably worth more today than an
S390. ;-)
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Actually this thread title should be Fluke.l (lower case L)
Richard W. Solomon-Link does not seem to work ??
My original post got messed up when it was quoted to become:
The display is a HY-2002A-803
http://www.ciahk.net/upload/docs/HY-2002A.pdf;
When My reference was quoted the end quote
Mark Sims-Doesn't answer the question about what LCD controller chip it
uses...
some more digging around implies it's a Sunplus SPCL780.
http://www.ciahk.net/upload/docs/HY-2002A.pdf
The above link has this information on the chip in the block
diagram:
“control LSI SPLC780A or KS0066”
Dan Rae-When I only had two gps units in the dim and distant past, I
used a passive splitter made from a Minicircuits (MCL) ZAPD-2 unit bought
at the swap meet for $1, with a 100 pF series blocking cap in one of the
output ports. If the receiver connected to the other port complains,
you can
Lester Veenstra-I guess this means Eli's is gone !
I used to go to Eli Heffron Sons when Eli ran it and also
after the two sons took over the business. There was always
something of interest to be found. I never knew I 'needed' an
item until I saw it at the bottom of a pile of other
Probably the chips have a maximum supply voltage of 5.5vdc. I assume you
had one of the older monitors from Fluke.l and the +5vdc went directly
to the chips. The newer units he is selling now have a 78M05 regulator
and will work from about 7 volts to maybe 15. Good luck.
DARN, posted this originally in the wrong thread.
My wife has a very simple rule: she doesn't care what I buy as long as
it's smaller than what I sell.
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Bob Camp:
There are a couple of European sources that pop up from time to time selling
Thunderbolts. It appears that 99% of the supply comes from China. At least
here in the US, it's significantly cheaper to ship them in from China than
to buy from a local source.
I had a thunderbolt that displayed a temperature reading of -54.99°C, which
I was pretty sure wasn't correct. ;-) Apparently the reference in the DS1620
chip either shorted or opened so this D revision chip was outputting its
lowest possible reading. I replaced it with a C revision chip that
Chris Smith-
I only joined this list a few hours ago and hadn't searched the archive for
which I apologise.
--
No need to apologize. I didn't intend my post to sound like that. this list has
lots of good information but it isn't that
jimlux-And you can probably still buy 709 and 714 op-amps..
I'm old enough to know that it is 741 op-amps, not 714. ;-)
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Bob Camp-ua714 = tough to find when it was brand new
Yes, but for years the 709 and 741 were ubiquitous and the 741
is still alive and doing well today. The 714 is an asterisk, much
like the GAP Scientific K2-Ws I probably still have lying around.
I once owned a complete GAP analog computer
The +12VDC supply (internal to the sealed oscillator) supplies both the oven
and the oscillator circuits. I think you'll find that internally this +12VDC
goes to the heater circuit as well as through a regulator to the oscillator
which is running on something like +7VDC. This is speculation at
Ed Palmer-Where did you find that 10% spec? I looked in the Tbolt book and
the
data sheet but didn't see it.
You can find the information on the 38th page (page 3-4) at the manual link
below:
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10001/ThunderBoltBook2003.pdf
Ed Palmer-Every oscillator has a spec for frequency shift due to power supply
variation,
but maybe you'd see a big change when you lost regulation. Have to think about
that.
I have done this a few times with oscillators that contain internal regulators
and the output
level remains constant
Bob Camp-In addition to the influence of the voltage on the oscillator, the
voltage
change also impacts the temperature control circuit. Most OCXO's control
current
through the heater rather than power in the heater. As you drop voltage, the
power
being controlled drops. The net effect is a
Bob Camp-The point is that you can indeed get into trouble before the internal
regulator drops out. How much trouble depends on the design of the heater.
I'm not disputing that there might be other effects of dropping the supply
voltage
close to the point where the regulator will lose
Neville Michie-The whole aim of this exercise was to be able to
support the Tbolt with a 12 volt lead acid battery (20AH) and so
have an uninteruptable power supply.
I chose a different route. I bought a small DC-DC converter that runs
from +9 to +18 in and has 3 outputs of +5/+12/-12. The
I mean when I remove the power from the monitor and let it cool down the
after about 1Hrs it starting to work again normal, the later on displaying
garbled msg.. like something is overheating??
Fluke.L has sold 2 versions of the monitor.
But now here is the finding. The monitor board has the 7805 SMD version and
I was feeding from +12Volt and after a while the SMD voltage regulator
overheated
and started to drop the voltage and it was the reason to receive/display
garbled
msg.the display is built into the same box as
Poul-Henning Kamp-
Can't recall this clock been mentioned on timenuts before:
http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/neonclock/;
__
Actually the idea isn't that unique and anyone who remembers
the decatron tubes have seen the entire decade built into a single
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS18S20.pdf
I have a 2001 Thunderbolt and it uses the DS1620 chip
which is nothing like the DS18S20. Did you double check
the number?
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS1620.pdf
-Arthur
Hal,
At least with Lady Heather there seems to be a problem with the
temperature graphing with the newer chips. The DS1620s that give
the temp in steps have an 'E2' or whatever as the last two characters
on the second line. The chip most Thunderbolts have has a 'D2' as
the last two
This out-of-control thread has been a total waste of bandwidth
for some time now. I feel that I should be embarrassed for some
of the posters here because they appear to have no sense of
shame. this thread reminds me of a Robert Frost poem about
choices that isn't any more off topic than some
I've noticed a U.S. seller on Ebay with 100% positive feedback selling a
Thunderbolt package deal that isn't too pricey, actually quite a bit less
than the one you mention. Apparently they have several and have been
listing them over the last few weeks. the latest item (120576511516)
ends in a
After about mid 2004 the DS1620 thermometer chip was the E
version that displays the temperature in steps of maybe 1 degree.
I've replaced a few of these chips with C versions that correct the
graphing problem and make the T-bolts work properly. Unless you
want to find and replace the surface
On 6 June 2010 09:42, Arthur Dent golgarfrincham at yahoo.com wrote:
After about mid 2004 the DS1620 thermometer chip was the E
version that displays the temperature in steps of maybe 1 degree.
I've replaced a few of these chips with C versions that correct the
graphing problem and make the T
It may or may not tell you what's wrong but a quick check of the
Thunderbolt would be to put a tee in series with the antenna and
see if the unit is supplying +5 volts under load to the antenna.You
have verified that the antenna works with a second unit so you can
rule that out. Where you are
Hi
The 260's are better for environmental than a 10811, same / worse than a
1938. The typical 260 beats the typical 10811 or 1938 on short term /
medium term stability. There are some 10811's and 1938's that will indeed
beat some 260's for short term stability.
Bob
For Lady Heather, do I have to add a switch between the monitor and the
PC, or does the monitor have an additional RS232 port to feed through
the PC communication automatically?
++
I just soldered the monitor lead to the transmit pin on the T-bolt's RS232
it unless you
know precisely
what it is. Your only hope is to catch it by surprise out of the corner of your
eye.
-Arthur Dent
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Alternately, I have a large quantity of DS1620S rev C chips. $1.99 ea +
shipping.
-Pete
---
I have used the rev C chips for replacement of the E chips in the later
T-bolts
and they work great.
d.seiter-...Both then and now, it takes about 45 seconds to lock from cold,
and will stay locked for about 45 minutes
++
I'm surprised that it locks in 45 seconds, I would expect it to take about 3-4
minutes. All the units I have lock in 3-5 minutes if
If you're planning on a pin for pin replacement that fits
inside the package,
I would be careful and make sure that any replacement
Trimble OCXO
has the part number 37265 on it.
-Arthur
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Heathkid:What is the higher resolution variant of the DS1620
and how can one tell the difference from the chip markings?”
If you read the middle line on the DS1620 temperature chip
you may see 0310D1 where the 5th character is a capital
D. The 03 is the year and the 10 may be the month of the
Here is a link to a
photo of the 5V 10uS wide pulse. It is there but catching it on some scopes can
be a problem because of its narrow width and low repetition rate.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4339027385_0d9f2bc055.jpg
+++
Hal Murray: “The
problem
I am using one of the MCL-ZAPD-3DB units I bought new on Ebay
and it was easy to change the input antenna connector from an “N”
to the “TNC” connector that I needed, eliminating an adaptor and
probably a little loss. One of the outputs from the ZAPD is
connected to a 40-2400MHz 4–way splitter
Years ago I built a modification of the double shielded WWVB loop
antenna described by Don Lancaster in a 1973 magazine.
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Aug1973/RE_Aug1973.htm
I have been using that same antenna ever since with good results in NH
where the signal is pretty weak
John-…”HP's loop for the 117A is not tuned, as I rember, but it
is followed with a narrow band amp.“
Both the nuvistor and FET versions of the loop show capacitors across the loop
winding to tune it.
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10509a/
-Arthur
John,-My concern with tuning the loop is that as the tuned circuit drifts with
temperature, or other things, an extraneous phase shift will be intoduced
to the received signal. Remember, the phase of a complex pole pair tuned
circuit goes from +90 to -90 degrees as you sweepo through resonance.
My RMS Engineering receiver is quite old and in fact was
designed to only receive 18 or 20 KHz signals. All the transistors
are 2N404 Ge. Way back someone was selling a conversion
kit to make this unit operate on 60KHz for WWVB. The way
it works is the 100KHz from an external standard is fed
Jim-“You could look at the data from things like OTH-B
radar (Over the Horizon-Backscatter) to get a feel for this.”
Zoom in on N45° 10.300 W069° 51.600 on GoogleEarth.
I’ve driven to this area on some of the dirt roads that run
through this area. As I understand it, this project isn’t dead,
Lester Veenstra-“No, Andover Maine.”
The white Dacron fabric dome of the station in Andover,
Maine, really stood out and could be seen by hikers on the
tops of mountains miles away. Somewhere I have photos I
took looking down at that white speck in the
The info I’ve included below appears to be from 1969 and sounds like it
was the scheme to broadcast standard frequency on the TV channels, or
to synchronize the broadcasting stations. I have removed the number
references scattered in the text because they refer to a drawing that isn’t
I went to the Flea at MIT (Cambridge, MA) yesterday and
picked up a new (nos) HP 00105-6013, which is the XTAL
oscillator assembly for the HP 105 frequency standard. The
seller was asking $10 but took $5. It works great although it
does take a little longer to get to operating temp where I
On my HP 00105-6013 fleamarket find, paul swed wrote:
I think thats actually a 10544 or 10811 I have a 105. So would be a good one
for GPS locked source etc. I have the 105 manual hardcopy, but seem to recall
thats
what it is.
No, you're thinking of a different revision. The HP 105
A/B
Ed Palmer wrote:
I have an HP105B e/w a 10811-60109 oscillator. It has the same physical
configuration as all other plug-in 10811s. It's plugged into the 00105-6044
board that you mentioned. This combination was also apparently used in the
5061B Cs standard. You can see it in the
Ed Palmer wrote:
The second board is 05061-6165. It includes frequency divider,
amplifier, and level adjust circuitry to make it plug-compatible
with the older oscillator. Here's a picture of that board.
Notice the 4 SMB connectors and the four single lead connectors
- just like the older
On May 24th Mark C. Stephens asked:
Does the 9390-5588A have the 16.618 Mhz Vectron oscillator externaly
located on one of the wire wrap boards?
Well I had to dig it out and open it up to see. Actually I mispoke
when I said my 9390 had an FRK, it turned out that was another unit
I was thinking
The two apparently were manufactured within 3 months of one another.
I'd say 9 months. The firmware revision from 2.2 to 3.0 is the
3 months you mentioned and from what I could gather ( which may
or may not be correct) mainly changed the algorithm for handling
carryover and unless you're
But do they have a actual website. I did not find one or a webstore?
How is it you even knew they had the items??
Thanks
Paul
I have bought many items from them and have always been satisfied
with the items I've bought and their service. They sell on Ebay
and that is where their 'store' is. Try
The OCXO in the TBolt has a linear controller. It drops back to about
150 to 250 ma on the +12 line after warmup. It's been at least 40
years since I saw an on/off oven control in production ….
Remember that the +12 feeds the oscillator circuit. The more crud on
the 12 volts, the worse the
The amp/splitter I've bought from seller RDR-electronics
on Ebay have been Minicircuits ZAPD-3DB-1575-3, 2-way
GPS Antenna Splitter N-f. I didn't see any for sale
right now but they show up from time to time. See
item # 300915251060 to see what they look like.
-Arthur
To answer the question of whether the Nortel/Trimble
units will work with Lady Heather, here is a photo of
my modified NTPB15AA with the T-bolt monitor built-in.
This version I bought from RDR-electronics works fine.
http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/NTPB15AA05.jpg
-Arthur
I have a slightly earlier version, or a close cousin, of the NTBW50AA that
I modified and I've posted photos of it on this list before:
http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac262/rjb1998/NTPB15AA05.jpg
The LH plot from the NTBW50AA by quartz55 doesn't look quite right. Here
is a LH plot from my
Mark Sims holrum at hotmail.com
Tue Sep 10 09:03:24 EDT 2013
Again, THE TEMPERATURE SENSOR IS NOT BROKEN!! The firmware in
some of these units (those from NTPX modules) does NOT read the temperature
sensor in high-res mode.
I have sold over 200 T-bolts and had to replace about
I would say the temp sensor is working, but still why those jumps?
Ah, that new temp plot looks like the 'normal' staircase steps I was
talking about. The previous plot didn't look right with all the little steps
in between. As I mentioned before, and Bob mentioned, any problem with
the
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