hi all,
Among the alternatives we've kicked around:
comp.lang.java.html+template
comp.lang.java.template+tag
comp.lang.java.servlet+template
comp.lang.java.template-tech
comp.lang.java.web-tech
Again, any suggestions welcome either here or in private e-mail.
how about
Glenn,
Speaking of which: Yes, we need a place where the various templating and tagging
approaches that somehow involve Java can be discussed. A thread like this thread needs
a logical place for it to take
place and right now there doesn't seem to be one as each list or Usenet group seems
: An alternative to JSP
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Mel Martinez wrote:
Without getting into the larger issue, one problem
that jumped out at me from your article is (at least
in your examples) the MLS precompile looks at the
expression inside the digraphs
Paul,
Actually, my investigations in the past have shown that (at least in
Sun's JDK 1.2) this is implemented as:
new StringBuffer
("My").append("dog").append("has").append("fleas").toString();
It is also possible to write a statement like:
"My" + "dog" + '.'
The
At 11:03 AM -0800 01/25/2001, Mel Martinez wrote:
That presumes the line termination
character of choice for the output is a linefeed
character.
Good point. Will fix when I get a moment.
Another issue is that the example creates catenated
String literals. I would hope that the actual code
At 11:23 AM -0500 01/26/2001, Brad Cox wrote:
so the user's session will be lost if they ever browse
to a hard-coded html pag
I meant to say...
for browsers that don't support cookies or if the user has disabled cookies.
--
---
Dr. Brad Cox; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 703 361 4751 Fax: 703 995
Last paragraph in the java.lang.String javadoc says:
The Java language provides special support for the string
concatentation operator
( + ), and for conversion of other objects to strings. String
concatenation is
implemented through the StringBuffer class and its append
method.
This list is for discussing issues related to developing the Tomcat
servlet container, not design of web applications. Could this
discussion get moved elsewhere?
Thanks,
Glenn
Brad Cox wrote:
At 11:23 AM -0500 01/26/2001, Brad Cox wrote:
so the user's session will be lost if they ever
/StringBuffer (was Re: An alternative to JSP)
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KAA15483
Last paragraph in the java.lang.String javadoc says:
The Java language provides special support for the string
Brad Cox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
At 11:03 AM -0800 01/25/2001, Mel Martinez wrote:
That presumes the line termination
character of choice for the output is a linefeed
character.
Good point. Will fix when I get a moment.
Another issue is that the example creates catenated
String
Mel Martinez wrote:
Without getting into the larger issue, one problem
that jumped out at me from your article is (at least
in your examples) the MLS precompile looks at the
expression inside the digraphs and replaces line
terminations in the *.j source with linefeed
characters ('\n').
on 1/25/01 11:42 AM, "Paul Speed" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just thought that I would point out that:
"My " + "dog " + "has " + "fleas." will be compiled as one String:
"My dog has fleas." and incurs no runtime penalties. In the case
of literals it can be more efficient than StringBuffer as
Thanks to everyone for the comments on my paper. I've tried to
address them in the revised version by emphasizing the validation and
site architecture and moving MLS into the supporting article. The new
version is
at http://virtualschool.edu/wap.
I'd be interested whether the validation/site
I would not call them "template engineers", but I already called them
scripters.
Anyway, I am sure there is an intermediate class of coders and there
are much more of them (with different degrees of skill) than of the
so called "Java engineers".
My experience is that they are able to take over
"Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/11/01 8:30 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Let me also state that at this point in time, I see Velocity+Turbine as
being one of the best solutions out there.
I agree it has benefits over JSP, but I do think it's still too hard
on 1/14/01 3:11 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/11/01 8:30 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Let me also state that at this point in time, I see Velocity+Turbine as
being one of the best solutions out there.
I
"Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/14/01 3:11 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/11/01 8:30 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Let me also state that at this point in time, I see Velocity+Turbine as
on 1/14/01 5:34 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seems to me that your argument rests on the assumption that there exists
such a beast as a "template engineer" - someone who is skilled in HTML and
who understands coding without ever having had formal programming training.
I used XSLT as a template mechanism and my feeling is that it is too heavy
and too problematic for that purpose. WebMacro, Velocity and FreeMarker
are less problematic and lighter.
I have seen people trying to use XSLT for business logic just because they
want to do everything with it, and they
Whatcha looking for: np.instantis.com ???
Just curious to see what's happening over there, nothing more.
That's what browsers are for. What's the relevance to Tomcat?
-tom
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For
on 1/12/01 11:49 AM, "Tomas Rokicki" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
With the solution we're deploying in-house here, your dynamic row
example is just
tabletrtd%tr rundata%%key%/tdtd = %value%/td/tr/table
which is editable in WYSIWYG HTML editors, contains no Java code,
and so on . . . the
an example of how we solved the
`no code in JSP' problem.
-tom
-Original Message-
From: Jon Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: An alternative to JSP
on 1/12/01 11:49 AM, "Tomas Rokicki" [EMAIL PROTEC
Exactly. It would have been nice if JSP was done right from the start
instead of having an original goal of attempting to provide a solution to
strictly compete with ASP.
My thought is that JSP was `done right from the start' (at least, with
custom taglibs)---it just doesn't solve the whole
Hi Brad,
Interesting articles.
I agree with most of your discussion of the disadvantages of JSP/ASP/etc,
but I believe your solution does not address a fundamental problem, which
is the complete separation of presentation resources from presentation logic.
Having the HTML embedded in a java
Right on. HTML-in-Java vs. Java-in-HTML is a silly argument AFAIK.
Neither's a very good solution long-term. The Java-in-HTML makes it
near-impossible for designers to collaborate with coders, while the
HTML-in-Java has that problem, plus the code bloat problem (the bytecode
format will choke on
the eval. $199 per license (blech)...
luckily, we're all rich, right?
Jef
-Original Message-
From: Kyle F. Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:35 PM
To: Paul Libbrecht
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: An alternative to JSP
On Thursday, January 11
Thanks. No I'm not aware of Turbine, but I am aware of the approach
described in the paper. That's what the company I was consulting for
took
that I (perhaps inaccurately) described as "similar to WebMacro".
MLS? Preprocess code? WHAT?
Could you explain what you mean by this?
At 9:41 PM
At 11:30 AM -0500 01/11/2001, Shawn McMurdo wrote:
I agree with most of your discussion of the disadvantages of JSP/ASP/etc,
but I believe your solution does not address a fundamental problem, which
is the complete separation of presentation resources from presentation logic.
That is correct. My
At 11:12 AM -0800 01/11/2001, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
* I don't see any reasoning for why HTML-in-Java is better
than any of the alternatives -- just a presumptive conclusion.
The vast majority of the article is simply a description of your
recommended approach.
Good point. I'll
I think these two quotes from the website will address your concern.
There is no official release yet, but there will be one shortly.
Velocity's design concept is borrowed from WebMacro.
At 11:42 AM -0800 01/11/2001, Jon Stevens wrote:
on 1/11/01 11:21 AM, "Brad Cox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/11/01 12:12 PM, "Brad Cox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think these two quotes from the website will address your concern.
My concern?
There is no official release yet, but there will be one shortly.
However, you can get daily snapshots which are quite stable and ready to
use.
Paul Speed wrote:
I'll be curious to see where the JSP spec evolves next. To
me it seems logical to start incorporating more tags along the lines
of the current bean tags. Iteration and other control structures
seems like the most common part of the wheel that tag libraries seem
Geoff Soutter wrote:
"Paul Speed" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
For what it's worth, I think that custom tags are the thing
that really saves JSP. On my last project, we were able to
encapsulate all logic into a servlet framework and custom tags.
(Actually, our framework
on 1/11/01 4:53 PM, "Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.whichever.com/jsp.gif
Now this is fun...
216.216.10.57 - - [11/Jan/2001:17:03:45 -0800] "GET /jsp.gif HTTP/1.1" 200
74620
216.216.10.57 - - [11/Jan/2001:17:06:54 -0800] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 5
216.216.10.57 - -
Paul Speed wrote:
[...]
As it turned out, for many of the custom tags we were able
to write web-developer versions that didn't require the full back-end
application server. Our web developers were then able to run tomcat
locally to help develop their pages and see what they looked
"Jon Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 1/11/01 6:32 PM, "Geoff Soutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Certainly I've never seen what I consider to be a clean way of letting
HTML
people do HTML and Java people do Java. Yes, I've seen some that are
better
than others (XMLC is probably the
I've uploaded an early rough draft of a pair of articles that boils
down to a critique of the JSP approach plus source code for a quite
different approach. I'd be very interested in feedback... of the
constructive variety, of course ;)
The articles are at http://virtualschool.edu/wap
--
---
on 1/10/01 7:52 PM, "Brad Cox" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've uploaded an early rough draft of a pair of articles that boils
down to a critique of the JSP approach plus source code for a quite
different approach. I'd be very interested in feedback... of the
constructive variety, of course ;)
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