Jonathan Hughes wrote:
I guess the first question to answer is why I am reviewing The Da Vinci
Code.
The novel begins with a page entitled Fact. It then lists a few items
that are considered factual (as opposed to the fiction that is about to
follow). All descriptions of artwork,
David Miller wrote:
In other words, God is orchestrating the political
boundaries that exist between countries, who
is in power and who is out of power.
Lance wrote:
There's no 'orchestration' that I can see.
How then do you read the book of Daniel? Do you think the book of
Daniel is the
Lance wrote:
The word 'stupid' was a poor choice (a very poor choice).
Thank you for that admission. I guess this is as close to saying that
you were wrong to call Bush stupid as we might hope for.
Lance wrote:
I do think that one can take the 'measure' of
a person through their public
Izzy:Answer: No. By the by; to all and sundry: Believer=Republican?
Unbeliever=Democrat? I think not.
All you folks had best think about this 'judgement' you so frequently
dispense, on God's behalf, coming back on your own heads. The vindictive
comments concerning media and party leaders, other
It's not, in my opinion,them and us. It's
just us. We are those very imperfect people.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 14, 2004 18:17
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The
Apostle
I
also saw it as an example of how even
David Miller wrote:
George Bush did not decide to invade Iraq. God did.
God simply used Bush as his pawn.
Bill wrote:
how might you reconcile the above statement with free will
-- Izzy's given that we have it and that God will not violate
it in anyone?
I did not have any problem with
DavidM:Consistency is the ..of small minds. Now since you don't have a small
mind, to what shall we attribute this response? Well, inconsistency.
God is at work in the affairs of men (and women) but they are still the
'affairs of men (and women)'.
Intelligent and well-spoken people can
Lance wrote:
... to what shall we attribute this response?
Well, inconsistency.
What do you think is inconsistent in my response?
My response seems very consistent to me, but then, you already knew
that, didn't you? :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
--
DavidM:There's a documentary out (DVD) entitled 'My Journey With George'
Rent it. Say n'more, know what I mean, nod's as good as a wink' (Monty
Python)
I'd take an immoral John Kennedy over a moral George Bush any day.
Pick a profession, any profession at all (I've removed the jokers). Got it?
DavidM:Because of your facility with language(s), your familiarity with
Scripture, and your capacity to string together several literate paragraphs
you often appear to be making an airtight case for well..whatever. If you
tense up over hearing the word 'opinion' then, let me suggest another: your
DavidM:Up early? As Billy Crystal said, via his character, in the Princess
Bride: 'sometimes the magic works and, sometimes it doesn't'
You think out of a bigger box than most, David. It's still a box of your own
construction. Kinda like Hal Lindsay with an education (on matters
prophetic).
-
And your box Lance? TFTorrance and Polanyi with
Calvinistic overtones?
From what you write to TT it appears obvious
thatyour wisdom comes from
movies - since most of your quotes come from
them. If anyone uses a quote
from scripture here you
bring up the box theory and how noone really
DavidH,
Perhaps I went overboard on my description of your email. I thought your
response was a tongue-in-cheek response. If that is not the case I apologize
for assuming it was. I am not trying to set new rules, just cut down on
posts by eliminating non discussion-related posts. An
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I'd take an
immoral John Kennedy over a moral George Bush any day.
Say no more Lance - A man's morality determines his
theology You have
giventhe answer to something I was
pondering.
Pick a profession, any profession at all (I've removed the
Judyt:Next time you're choosing a doctor, dentist,
carpenter...employ the same standard. God does not, in my opinion, override
incompetence. Hmmm at least not in the case of some on TT. In my opinion you do
on occasion employ Scripture well. Sometimes you just downright mangle
'em.
-
Bill, Dont you think that the Lord
knows ahead of time who He can depend upon to do His will on any given issue?
He certainly knows who listens and obeys.
That is different from the issue of Him forcing someone to obey
Him. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lance, Once again here goes:
Believer = Pro-Life, Anti-Sodomy, Anti-confiscatory taxes on families, etc.
Heathen = Pro-Abortion, Pro-Sodomy, Pro-Socialism, etc.
So which way should one vote?
Why do you object to the idea that we are ALL subject to God's judgment for
sins we commit? Why don't you
Lance, If you choose to watch documentaries that ridicule our President then
you are choosing to have a biased view of the truth. You choose what you
want to believe about a person, for good or for evil. The only time I
choose to believe evil about anyone is in the light of obvious sinful acts.
Izzy:Given the fair characterization proferred, Heathen of course. No doubt
'bout it.
Yikes!! and, I 'wondered' concerning the proliferation of militia groups
in America the beautiful?? Wonder no more.
PS:Sad about the 'Rushmeister' isn't it?
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President George Bush
Izzy:Given the fair characterization proferred, Heathen of course. No
doubt
DAVEH: Thank you for the clarification, Perry. Unless anybody
objects, I will resume posting things I feel other TTers may find
interesting as I have in the past. If you (or any other TTers) ever
feel I cross the line of becoming boorish.let me know.
BTW...I did realize your
In a message dated 6/15/2004 6:30:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS:Sad about the 'Rushmeister' isn't it?
I am one of his biggest fans but you are right -- it is discouraging to me. I no longer listen to Amy Grant for the same reason.
John
John:Disagree vehemently! God didn't stop listening
to them and, neither have I.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 09:55
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
In a message dated 6/15/2004 6:30:57 AM Pacific
Daylight Time,
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judyt:Next time you're choosing a doctor, dentist,
carpenter...employ the same standard.
The above are temporal professions
Lance even lthough Jesus was a carpenter in his youth.
A President is also in a temporal and temporary position but one
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 6/15/2004 6:30:57 AM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:PS:Sad about the 'Rushmeister'
isn't it?I am one of his biggest fans but you are right -- it is
discouraging to me. I no longer listen to Amy Grant for the same
reason. John
To
Judyt: You just 'read' me so comprehensively that
I'm without retort. Do you every go back, read your own posts then, chuckle??
You and DavidM have an heir of
'pontification' 'bout you. It can be difficult to take you
seriously.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
Gracious Lance, your God is open to
everything. Must not be the one who wrote scripture
because He doesn't violate His own Word.
It appears that Amy Grant was writing love
notes to another woman's husband... Rush was
just full of himself but then he never
claimed to be a born again
I don't believe you Lance, you always have a lot to
say about everything, I
seldom meet anyone with so many opinions about so
much; and the answer to
your question is- No I don't chuckle, I am as serious as can be about the
Truth
of God and His Word which
is what I am discussing these
Judyt:No chuckle here. Good on ya mate. God does
have sons and daughters who are Democrat Greens (even some who make
documentaries-note: it was a poorly made documentary but it did show GB for who
he is)
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Izzy:No! This is not an example of a 'godly'
president.It is however, a moral choice with which I heartily
concur.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 11:13
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
Example of godly President: Bush refuses to proclaim June as Gay
Pride Month, thereby blocking federal funds for use of such. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38957
Izzy
How about a moral President? Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:21
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President
George Bush
Izzy:No! This is not an example of a 'godly'
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
The mood here is that were under siege,
theres no doubt about it, says one troubled aide who admits he is looking for
work elsewhere. In this administration, you dont have to wear a turban or
speak Farsi to be an
OK, I'll bite. How 'bout a "moral" president? An
acquaintance of mine said: "I've lived next door to a "moral" neighbor and to an
"immoral" neighbor. If I had a choice (said he) I'd always choose the former."
Moral(ism) is, in my opinion, of the Devil.
- Original Message -
Lance Muir wrote:
Judyt:No chuckle here. Good on ya
mate. God does have sons and daughters who are Democrat Greens
(even some who make documentaries-note: it was a poorly made
documentary but it did show GB for who he is)
Izzy:He's the one I'd vote for given who's
available. How's that?
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 11:17
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
And
who do YOU say he is? Are we back
to
Just for the record. I was at a concert to support Compassion International and Amy Grant was one of the singers - (I mainly went to hear Mercy Me) She gave quite a testimony and spoke about her sin and restoration. Laura
Terry:I thought you skipped my posts? All (as in
everyone of you) who thinks as do you on this DO NOT SPEAK FOR GOD! (God says
'Amen Lance)
- Original Message -
From:
Terry Clifton
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 12:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Judyt:Chris, in my opinion, 'gets it'! If you're a
moralist of the moralism camp then, please know that God 'saves'
such.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 12:59
Subject: [TruthTalk] GW would fit right
in on TT
What does Chris get Lance?
You and he appear to be in agreementwith regard
tothe President, (the man God's Word exhorts us to pray for) and
apparently neither of you havea problem with getting heretical (3rd party)
gossipfrom some slimy sources. According to your doctrine these
people have
With apologies to Perry the Moderate(r). This does
connect with the general stream of 'conversation'
- Original Message -
From: Hughes Jonathan
To: Lance Muir
Sent: June 15, 2004 13:21
Subject: Intiguing
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0614-01.htm
Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of
In a message dated 6/15/2004 7:02:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John:Disagree vehemently! God didn't stop listening to them and, neither have I.
Vehemently?! Wow. It is not a salvation issue with me. But it is a leadership issue. Leaders in the church are to be above
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
QUICK, without referring to Strong's
Concordance ... how many times is the word 'moral' (or variations i.e. morality,
moralist, moralize) found in Scripture?
Ahava b'
YahShua
(Love in The
SAVIOUR)
Baruch
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:34
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President
George Bush
OK, I'll bite. How 'bout a moral president? An
acquaintance of mine said: I've lived next
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
The same number of times that the word
'ceremonial' is found in Scripture!
Ahava b'
YahShua
(Love in The
SAVIOUR)
Baruch
YHVH,
(Bless The
LORD)
Chris
Barr
a servant of
YHVH
Id say thats a miracle. J Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:42
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President
George Bush
Izzy:He's the one I'd vote for given who's available. How's
A frequent story by those who intended to do wrong, did it, and
intended to be forgiven and restored all along. That does not change the fact that they
are living in an adulterous relationship to this day (if they did not divorce
on Biblical grounds). Izzy
From:
[EMAIL
No problem with my sense of smell at all Lance; you are
wrong, being a believer has everything to do with being moral.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous SHALL NOT inherit the
kingdom of God? e not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of
Izzy:Ouch!
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:00
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
A
frequent story by those who intended to do wrong, did it, and intended to be
forgiven and restored
Iz:Tell me the difference, as you see it, then I'll
give you an answer.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 13:56
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 6/15/2004 9:48:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Just for the record. I was at a concert to support Compassion International and Amy Grant was one of the singers - (I mainly went to hear Mercy Me) She gave quite a testimony and spoke about her sin and
How many times is the word weirdo in the Bible, Chris?
Doesnt mean theres no such thing. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:55
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] POP QUIZ!
\o/
In a message dated 6/15/2004 11:09:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How many times is the word weirdo in the Bible, Chris? Doesnt mean theres no such thing. Izzy
Interesting example. Gave me a smile.
John
From the perspective of "your doctrinal box" it may not
be the same thing Lance. However, morality and a sanctified conscience are one
and the same; Noah Webster's definition for Moral sense is "an innate or natural
sense of right and wrong; an instinctive perception of what is right or
In a message dated 6/15/2004 11:30:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thanks for sharing your perception/experience John. I've seen too much of this in christian circles and you don't
very often hear from the one who was hurt. I used to like Amy Grant's music but have no
In a message dated 6/15/2004 11:38:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'd say let's 'shun 'em'. It works for the JW's. I believe that all reconciliation should only be partial.
So partial reconciliation would just be con - ciliation. Con game, Con vict. Maybe not funny but I
No it doesn't work for the JW's - they are a cult, so
nothing that matters is workingfor them. Alsoshunning is no
more God's way than stealing another woman's husband because it breaks the 'royal law' If I had occasion to meet
Amy Grant in a social situation by His grace I would be able
Okay, I give upwhere?
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:24
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] POP QUIZ!
Iz:56 times
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
Iz:No.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:15
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
I
think you are alluding to moral-ism as a religion or substitute for Godly
righteousness. Making moral
Iz:56 times
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:08
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] POP QUIZ!
How
many times is the word weirdo in the Bible, Chris? Doesnt mean theres no
such thing. Izzy
Judyt:I'd say let's 'shun 'em'. It works for the
JW's.I believe that all reconciliation should only be
partial.
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:29
Subject: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
Thanks for sharing your
In a message dated 6/15/2004 11:28:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John:Ouch!(again)
Usually I am a really sweet guy, too.
John
Thanks for sharing your perception/experience
John. I've seen too much of this in christian circles and you
don't
very often hear from the one who was hurt. I used
to like Amy Grant's music but have no heart for it anymore.
She may be forgiven and restored in her relationship
with God but I
John:Ouch!(again)
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:07
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President George
Bush
In a message dated 6/15/2004 9:48:14 AM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Just
Judyt:Noah's wrong. We are not born with an 'innate
sense of right and wrong". The conscience is socialized.
PS:Just once please don't right a totally
predictable response quoting all uses of conscience in the Bible to buttress
your personal opinion (read tradition)
- Original
In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:48:11 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A frequent story by those who intended to do wrong, did it, and intended to be forgiven and restored all along. That does not change the fact that they are living in an adulterous relationship to this
Iz:No camera needed. Just 'read me' on TT. Case
closed.
Listen, Iz, my dear--why is it that political
discussions get you all in a knot while discussions pertaining to the 'faith
once delivered to the saints' leave you with a sense of
indifference?
- Original Message -
Iz:My own translation
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 15, 2004 14:58
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] POP QUIZ!
Okay,
I give upwhere?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:28:25 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Just for the record. I was at a concert to support Compassion International and Amy Grant was one of the singers - (I mainly went to hear Mercy Me) She gave quite a testimony and spoke about her sin and
Lance, you still don't know what I'm about do
you? I don't use the Bible to buttress anything.
Actually I subject myself to it's precepts. Who
said anything about being born with an innate
sense of morality? I specifically said "a
sanctified conscience" Do you know whatthis means?
From:
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:23
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] President
George Bush
Iz:No camera needed. Just 'read me' on TT. Case closed.
Listen, Iz, my dear--why
June 15, 2004By DAVID BROOKS
|NYTimes.com
It's been said that every society has
two aristocracies.The members of the aristocracy of mind produce ideas,
andpass along knowledge. The members of the aristocracy ofmoney produce
products and manage organizations. In oursociety these two groups
.but not against his will. J
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:02
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush
blundered in his preemptive move
George Bush did not decide to invade Iraq.
God
Izzy
opines
.but not against his will. J
How,
if "Bush did not decide," could you ever know, Izzy?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. TaylorSent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:13
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush
Very interesting, G. Thanks for
posting.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:44
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] fyi~g : D.
Brooks/NYT on the current 'civil war'
June 15, 2004By DAVID BROOKS
Did God ever make you do anything that you did not decide? Iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:55
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush
blundered in his preemptive move
Izzy opines
In a message dated 6/15/2004 6:14:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
.but not against his will. J
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush blundered
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